Ugh, I don't know what to do next with this chick

This thread is in regard to the girl I talked about here
Since then we've had another lunch date, though instead of just talking in the cafe we also did a bit of walking around, almost covering the whole campus.

I wanted to see what the dorms were like so she took me to her dorm building but she refused to show me her room cause she said it was really messy. I jokingly pressed a couple of times but she wouldn't change her mind and said maybe after she cleans it. After that we walked to the Japanese garden on campus and fed the koi.

Throughout the entire interaction there was light flirty banter and I did some casual kino on her. I quickly learned that she was afraid of bugs and there was one occasion where I was pushing her towards a butterfly. Since she's a little odd so she's fun to tease.

When the date was nearing the end I asked her what she was doing this weekend and she was just going to study for some tests and play video games. So I invited her to go to a cherry blossom festival which fulfilled an event requirement for our Japanese class. She wasn't totally sure if she wanted/could go this weekend.

The next day in class (today) was more of the same. Before our class the students sit on the floor and just talk for a few minutes. We had a test that day so she was helping me study. There was one time where she leaned over to read the paper I was holding and I just wanted to kiss her, obviously I didn't. When class was over she said bye, see you Monday. I said huh? what about this weekend and she was like oh yeah sakura con. She still wasn't sure. I asked her what she'd be doing instead of going with me and she said playing video games. I was teasing her about that, trying to get her to commit to going with me. She said she text me latter tonight when she decides.

She sent me a txt asking what city it was in. After my reply she sent another one telling me that her mom told her there is going to be a Japanese event in the city she lives in, in a couple of weeks, that's she's going to volunteer at, and that I'm welcome to come.

Feeling a little down but not defeated, I txted that I'd still like to hang out this weekend and that if she had any interest in going to the Long Beach Grand Prix, I could get free tickets for tomorrow. Her reply was, "sorry I have midterms to study for. I'm also taking a chem placement test for next semester so I have to study for that. I'll be busy this weekend. Want to try for next weekend?" I replied sure, lets see what happens next week." And that was that.

So here I am trying to figure out what's happening and wondering what my next move is.

I "know" she has low interest but it seems she's starting to like me more as time goes on. I'm very hard on myself so I could be only noticing the bad things about our interactions.

I'm absolutely terrified of the friendzone and every single girl I've been close to has put me there. I don't think I'm there yet with this girl and I want to make sure that does not happen. I'd rather destroy our "friendship" then get stuck in the friendzone. I want to have sex with this girl ASAP.

I have no idea what to do about Monday. We can have lunch again but I don't know if that is a good idea. If I new how to bring up sex and other intimate things to get the conversation going in the right direction I'd have more confidence. Right now though I feel completely hopeless. Failure is really not an option and if I can't get her a 6.5, that means I have to move further down the food chain and that means fat/ugly girls, which I wouldn't be interested in in the first place. At least this girl's personality, similar interests and looks are helping me to persist.

Personally I wouldn't lower your standards. I'm at the point where if I lower my standards anymore than I won't be able to respect myself. Even if that means I never have sex, spend every night alone jacking it to porn I won't go any lower. At least I'd still have my self-respect.

Seems like she is starting to like you?

My grandmother always told me that if she likes you then you know it.

This coming from a woman who was born on the farm in Genoa, Italy.

Make one last chance. Give it your best. Get alchohol involved. Then forget it.

Are you spinning other plates?

Lowering my standards is the last thing I want to do. Also it's very hard to make myself pursue a woman I am not attracted to.

Seems like she is starting to like you?

Click to expand...

That's what I'm sensing. People can like other people more as time goes on. I don't expect women to instantly fall in love with me.

Make one last chance. Give it your best. Get alchohol involved. Then forget it.

Click to expand...

Any tips on how to do that? Since she's 20, the only way to get alcohol involved is to bring her to my place. I wouldn't know how to set that up though. I am giving it my best shot and I'm frustrated that I don't know what to do.

Are you spinning other plates?

Click to expand...

Of course not. If it wasn't obvious from the content of my post, I have poor skills with women.

She's basically my last try. If I can't get a girl that's not that hot, doesn't put any effort into her looks and happens to have the same interests I do in video games and Japanese stuff; then odds aren't I won't be able any girl. I need a victory.

I can't tell you how interested she is, but I can say that you were way too pushy to hang out this weekend. Once she said she's not sure, you should have left it at that. Next time, try inviting her to lunch at a place that's closer to your apartment or wherever you live, that way it would be easier to transition to there.

When a woman declines one invitation, you probably shouldn't be throwing more at her right away.

I'll keep that in mind for the future. I really wasn't sure why she turned down the first invitation because there could have been several reasons, seemed boring to her, too long of a drive, too much of a time commitment etc. I might have been too pushy, but at least I found out her reason. I won't make the same mistake again.

When we get lunch it's between the three hour break she has between classes and we eat on campus. I have no idea how to get her to my place during that time.

Fuck! This shit is pissing me off.

Maxtro said:

I'll keep that in mind for the future. I really wasn't sure why she turned down the first invitation because there could have been several reasons, seemed boring to her, too long of a drive, too much of a time commitment etc. I might have been too pushy, but at least I found out her reason. I won't make the same mistake again.

When we get lunch it's between the three hour break she has between classes and we eat on campus. I have no idea how to get her to my place during that time.

Fuck! This shit is pissing me off.

Click to expand...

Surely there's some sort of restaurant/coffee shop by your place. And call her on a Saturday afternoon for a "study break." If she keeps declining, stop wasting time with her!

A study break on a Saturday? I assume you are talking about next week or somewhere further down the line. Since we're in the same class together four days a week I'm more focused on how to get through the coming week.

There is a little restaurant by my apartment. Should I suggest we eat there next time? I wonder if she'd go along with that. I guess there's only one way to find out.

Maxtro said:

When the date was nearing the end I asked her what she was doing this weekend and she was just going to study for some tests and play video games. So I invited her to go to a cherry blossom festival which fulfilled an event requirement for our Japanese class. She wasn't totally sure if she wanted/could go this weekend.

Click to expand...

#1

I said huh? what about this weekend and she was like oh yeah sakura con. She still wasn't sure.

Click to expand...

#2

Feeling a little down but not defeated, I txted that I'd still like to hang out this weekend and that if she had any interest in going to the Long Beach Grand Prix, I could get free tickets for tomorrow.

Click to expand...

#3

Her reply was, "sorry I have midterms to study for. I'm also taking a chem placement test for next semester so I have to study for that. I'll be busy this weekend. Want to try for next weekend?" I replied sure, lets see what happens next week." And that was that.

Click to expand...

She suddenly has midterms? Wasn't she going to play video games? Where'd all this stuff come from when she said she had nothing to do? At least she counter-offered... KINDA.

So here I am trying to figure out what's happening and wondering what my next move is.

Click to expand...

You are over-thinking.

I "know" she has low interest but it seems she's starting to like me more as time goes on. I'm very hard on myself so I could be only noticing the bad things about our interactions.

I'm absolutely terrified of the friendzone and every single girl I've been close to has put me there. I don't think I'm there yet with this girl and I want to make sure that does not happen. I'd rather destroy our "friendship" then get stuck in the friendzone. I want to have sex with this girl ASAP.

I have no idea what to do about Monday. We can have lunch again but I don't know if that is a good idea. If I new how to bring up sex and other intimate things to get the conversation going in the right direction I'd have more confidence. Right now though I feel completely hopeless. Failure is really not an option and if I can't get her a 6.5, that means I have to move further down the food chain and that means fat/ugly girls, which I wouldn't be interested in in the first place. At least this girl's personality, similar interests and looks are helping me to persist.

Click to expand...

First thing you need to do is quit the negative mindset.
That's not going to help you.

Second, stop being so pushy about giving her so many options to go out. Are you going to this Sakura Con already on your own? Continue to do so. With or without her. Her loss.

Third, stop being so available to her. When you asked her about the weekend again, you came across as a little too available and needy. Your mindset should be: If she comes, we'll have a good time - If she doesn't, I'll have a good time.

The purpose is to include her into YOUR plans, not to make HER the center of your plans.

Right now, she sees you four times a week WITHOUT dates, so I'd say start acting a little busier or just BE a little busier.

And stop stressing so much about getting her to your place... this attitude is rubbing off on her and she can notice this from a mile away. You come across as desperate in this post, so you probably are coming off as the same when you are around her.

You are already being negative about the whole situation and saying that you might have to take a step down in the ladder.

Just be cool, play it cool and just let whatever happens to happen.

1. dude, ill go to the grand prix with you and ill teach you a few things

2. starting to like you more and more? I think this really only happens if you start off as being an a**hole, then she starts to like you more and more realizing your not that bad, just a man. I agree with everyone else that, if she likes you, youll know it. Although didnt mr. president obama claim to have asked the first lady out 9 times, 9 TIMES! before she would? very interesting

Scion said:

Personally I wouldn't lower your standards. I'm at the point where if I lower my standards anymore than I won't be able to respect myself. Even if that means I never have sex, spend every night alone jacking it to porn I won't go any lower. At least I'd still have my self-respect.

Click to expand...

Preach the Gospel brother! Lowering your standards can be a disaster! You will spend way too much time trying to change of fix them to bring their value up.....which never happens.

And stop stressing so much about getting her to your place... this attitude is rubbing off on her and she can notice this from a mile away. You come across as desperate in this post, so you probably are coming off as the same when you are around her.

Click to expand...

Now that I've had a nights sleep I know how desperate I sounded in my post. That's only because I let the negative feelings sink in and I was starting to panic.

When I'm around her I know I'm not coming off desperate. I'm trying to be fun but persistent. The last chick I was interested in, we hung out regularly for months and she didn't have a clue that I liked her. That's not going to happen with this girl.

Not once have I mentioned to her about taking her to my place. The only reason I even brought it up in this thread was because somebody mentioned alcohol and since she's 20, my place is the only place where she can drink.

When I was with her on Wednesday she did mention that she had the placement test and midterms that she had to study for, though she didn't mention those on Thursday. She told me that she's a bit absent minded at times. Whether she's going to be studying the whole weekend and can't take several hours off is her business.

Second, stop being so pushy about giving her so many options to go out. Are you going to this Sakura Con already on your own? Continue to do so. With or without her. Her loss.

Click to expand...

It's too much of a drive to do by myself and she said that another event is happening in a couple of weeks that is much closer to where we live.

The purpose is to include her into YOUR plans, not to make HER the center of your plans.

Second, stop being so pushy about giving her so many options to go out.

Click to expand...

The thing is, these were my plans. I had planned on going to the Grand Prix with or without her. I didn't even mention it to her in person. So my plan was to go to that by myself and then go to the cherry blossom festival with her the fallowing day. When she declined the event I wanted to do with her, I invited her to the other thing I was going to do.

I feel that I am running out of time. In a little over a month the semester is over and unless I do the right things, I won't see her anymore and I'll have to move on to the next girl which may take a year till I find somebody I click with.

So I need to find the balance between being busy and pursuing her. If she's going to reject me, I need to get a solid answer before school is over or else I'd be stuck on her for months.

I really don't know what to do when we go back to school on Monday. I could pretend to be busy and not invite her out for lunch so I don't seem needy. But would that do me any good in the long run?

Maxtro said:

I really don't know what to do when we go back to school on Monday. I could pretend to be busy and not invite her out for lunch so I don't seem needy. But would that do me any good in the long run?

Click to expand...

You think she would be suprised if you didn't invite her to lunch on a single day? How often do you invite her to lunch now?

It sounds like you have been trying way too hard here and being way too available, as others have said. My thoughts:

1) You are already friendzoned, if she was interested in anything more she would be making herself available for you

2) Although its good you share interests in games/anime, you shouldn't express these as your main interests with her. You should be the awesome guy who does X,Y,Z, but who also likes games/anime on the side (giving you the connection with her, without sounding like another geek)

3) Stop sounding so desperate! You did it again in your last post:

Maxtro said:

I feel that I am running out of time. In a little over a month the semester is over and unless I do the right things, I won't see her anymore and I'll have to move on to the next girl which may take a year till I find somebody I click with.

Click to expand...

As long as you are feeling like she is "the one" and that you aren't capable of finding anyone else similar, that desperation is totally going to rub off on her.

My feeling at this point is you have no chance whatsoever. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

I think you need to work on yourself a little bit, as well as spend some time analysing where you messed up this time and how not to make the same mistakes again

Good luck!

You think she would be suprised if you didn't invite her to lunch on a single day? How often do you invite her to lunch now?

Click to expand...

After the first time we got together I invited her again the fallowing week but she was busy on the days I could meet (school counselor appointment, then she her family was visiting her). So I tried again last Wednesday and we hung out. I don't have a clue what she would think if I didn't invite her. What she thinks isn't really my concern because I want to move as fast as possible with her.

The friendzone really confuses me. From my experiences it seems that I am instantly friendzoned right after I first say "hi" to a chick. Either she loves me right then or I never have a chance with her. That sounds like a load of bullshit to me. Girls aren't on-off switches. I take a while till I start liking somebody then my interest grows, are girls the opposite?

She knows that I surf and play sports on campus. But yeah I don't do much else. I don't know how to be an awesome guy. But do I have to be for a girl of her caliber? There's a reason why I'm not going after hotter girls. I usually wait till I find a girl that actually seems obtainable before I start to get an interest.

My desperation is real as I am starting to get very scared. I'm turning 29 in a few months and I haven't had a single girlfriend my entire life. I've only kissed one girl, a fat pig and that was 5 years ago. Physically and externally I'm fine but something about my personality is screwed up and I can't attract anybody. As I get older my chances of getting a decent girl are going down. Since I have zero relationship experience I can't imagine dating a girl over 25. If I graduate college without getting any experience then I am seriously screwed.

The last time I messed up with a girl I think I failed because I waited too long to make any physical moves on her. Time went on and I got friendzoned. I hung out with that chick a least once a week for 4 months and in the end she didn't have a clue that I liked her. When I finally tried to start something it was too late.

If I fail with this chick, I would have no idea what I did wrong. Hell if I wasn't a member of this board and aware of PU stuff, I would think that things are actually going well since we've been on two lunch dates and we could get together next week. So unless I get some major epiphany, I'm not going to learn anything from this chick. I know I could be doing better but I don't have a clue what that is. It's making me so frustrated.

When I'm sitting home by myself, my desperation fully comes out. When I'm around other people, especially girls, I'm a completely different person.

I have been working on myself. I've been in therapy for a few months, work out 2-3 times week, read tons of self-help books and pushing myself out of my comfort zone to do stuff like dance salsa and play on a flag football team. I'm also much more persistent than I was in the past. Do I have to wait till I'm fucking perfect to get a girl? I am ready for a woman in my life. The only problems in my life are caused by the fact that I don't have nor have I ever had a girl in my life.

The only thing I really need in life is a confidence boost that will come from accomplishing something that I've wanted since I was 13. Right now I keep getting older but the thought that I've always been single and never even slept with somebody without having cash involved, is really keeping me down.

I don't really feel qualified to answer this post, but I'm going to try anyway. Just take anything I say with a pinch of salt because I might be wrong, and I can only base opinion from what I read here, which might not be the whole story.

Maxtro said:

After the first time we got together I invited her again the fallowing week but she was busy on the days I could meet (school counselor appointment, then she her family was visiting her). So I tried again last Wednesday and we hung out. I don't have a clue what she would think if I didn't invite her. What she thinks isn't really my concern because I want to move as fast as possible with her.

Click to expand...

What she thinks matters because if she doesn't like you, it doesn't matter how fast you move because nothing is going to happen.

More importantly, I think that when you want to move quickly, the answer is not more and more dates over a shorter period of time (which is what you seem to be trying to do). The answer is that when you do see her, you escalate faster than you normally would to display your interest. Going on lots of pointless dates without any level of escalation is only going to get yourself friendzoned when any attraction fades.

Do you kino each other at all?

The friendzone really confuses me. From my experiences it seems that I am instantly friendzoned right after I first say "hi" to a chick. Either she loves me right then or I never have a chance with her. That sounds like a load of bullshit to me. Girls aren't on-off switches. I take a while till I start liking somebody then my interest grows, are girls the opposite?

Click to expand...

I don't think they are the opposite. I think guys are normally more on/off, in the sense that if shes hot you would want her, if she isn't you wouldn't Whereas with women you can make yourself attractive in how you interact with her.

You say below you have never had a girlfriend, so how do you know some love you right then and there? If they did so, then later you clearly lost their attraction anyway?

If you are getting friendzoned always, I suspect its because there is something not right in the way you carry yourself. Do you come across as a confident person? More importantly, do you come across as a sexual person? My guess is that you do not, and that's the problem.

Do you give lots of kino? Drop sexual innuendo's whenever possible?

She knows that I surf and play sports on campus. But yeah I don't do much else. I don't know how to be an awesome guy. But do I have to be for a girl of her caliber? There's a reason why I'm not going after hotter girls. I usually wait till I find a girl that actually seems obtainable before I start to get an interest.

Click to expand...

Don't you ever see a hot girl and feel attraction/interest? You should be going right up to these girls as often as possible and talking to them and setting up future meetings.

In that time you are waiting to see if they are interesting is probably the time you get friendzoned, by coming across too much of a friend without trying to build up attraction.

I would advise to stop looking for "the one" to focus your time on and to start focusing on "the many" girls that can make you happy. I try to have as many dates as possible planned to keep me busy and meeting people. Focusing on only one at a time wastes a lot of time finding the best possible girl.

For example, I have 4 dates over the next week. One is a girl I'll probably sleep with but don't want anything further. One is fairly boring and probably nothing will happen, and if it doesn't, I'll probably not bother setting up further meetings. The other 2 are both awesome and have great potential, although chances of me actually entering a relationship with either are slim.

All 4 could turn out to be perfect, or all 4 could turn out to be horrible. But I'll know quickly and always have options. If you spend 4 months chasing a single girl, you are wasting too much time.

My desperation is real as I am starting to get very scared. I'm turning 29 in a few months and I haven't had a single girlfriend my entire life. I've only kissed one girl, a fat pig and that was 5 years ago. Physically and externally I'm fine but something about my personality is screwed up and I can't attract anybody. As I get older my chances of getting a decent girl are going down. Since I have zero relationship experience I can't imagine dating a girl over 25. If I graduate college without getting any experience then I am seriously screwed.

Click to expand...

I understand, but you have to remain in control and play the game correctly. For someone who has so many posts on this board I'm fairly suprised to read the above, I admit. It seems like you haven't learned a whole lot?

The last time I messed up with a girl I think I failed because I waited too long to make any physical moves on her. Time went on and I got friendzoned. I hung out with that chick a least once a week for 4 months and in the end she didn't have a clue that I liked her. When I finally tried to start something it was too late.

Click to expand...

Then lesson learned. Escalate!

I have been working on myself. I've been in therapy for a few months, work out 2-3 times week, read tons of self-help books and pushing myself out of my comfort zone to do stuff like dance salsa and play on a flag football team. I'm also much more persistent than I was in the past. Do I have to wait till I'm fucking perfect to get a girl? I am ready for a woman in my life.

Click to expand...

This is good, keep it up! You don't have to be perfect, but all the above helps. More importantly is your attitude, and how you carry yourself and come across when speaking.

Anyway, I've typed way too much already but I hope I gave you something to think about

Now allow me to defer to the other experts on this board

Thanks Tesl for continuing to reply, especially as new to the board as yourself.

Going on lots of pointless dates without any level of escalation is only going to get yourself friendzoned when any attraction fades.

Click to expand...

I think that is key, and why the last girl frienzoned me. So my thought process for this girl is to try to escalate when we're on a date. Since we've only hung out twice I don't think it's too late. But I don't know what to for/about our next outing, since I'm so afraid of doing the wrong thing.

There's a reason why I wanted her to show me her room. I wasn't expecting to sleep with her then but I could try to bring the conversation in a sexual direction and try some more intimate kino. I've dropped some sexual innuendos but not enough.

Kino is a weakness of mine. A year ago I was completely afraid of touching a girl. Now I've gotten much better but I'm still not as comfortable with it as I want to be. I do kino her a lot but I'm afraid of being too suggestive. Also it's hard to do intimate kino when you're walking around. Honestly, I have zero experience escalating towards sex. I don't even know how to build up towards a kiss.

Don't you ever see a hot girl and feel attraction/interest? You should be going right up to these girls as often as possible and talking to them and setting up future meetings.

Click to expand...

I do, but if she is too attractive or seem to have an active lifestyle, I feel that I'm not good enough for her. So I give up on them right away. This girl is the first girl that I felt I have a chance with in a long time.

For someone who has so many posts on this board I'm fairly suprised to read the above, I admit. It seems like you haven't learned a whole lot?

Click to expand...

Great point, and it's one reason why I wish I could change my rank or at least hide my post count. The answer is that I used to be a WBAFC. I had a very strong depression and I hated my life. I was too scared to talk to random girls, ask girls I knew for their phone numbers. I wouldn't dream of ever touching a girl. It's taken me a long time and a lot of hard work to try and become, a normal guy.

I've read so much PU material and seen so many DVD's about it that I'm sick of the stuff. The knowledge I have in my head is useless until I can actually apply it. And even then I need to keep doing the basic stuff till the advanced material even becomes relevant.

My biggest set-back is a complete lack of self-esteem and self-confidence. The only thing that is going to fix that, is actually getting a win under my belt.

OK, we're a bit drunk, but my girlfriend thinks this girl is classic play hard to get.
Pull a roll reversal.
Act like she really wants you.
Go in for the kiss and then pull away and say, "No, I'm trying to take this slow - stop it, you."

She's trying to mess with you because she knows you want her more than she wants you and probably have no other options.

I feel like I can never be specific enough to you because you care about women too much.
It's the whole problem; pretty much all your happiness is coming from them and I can't understand why.

They should be salt on a good meal.

Edit: This isn't the cause of the problem, this is the result.
I really want to fix your inner-game, but I don't know where to start.
I'm going to call Oldschooler; this is his specialty - he actually used to work for love systems as a bootcamp instructor.

It's the whole problem; pretty much all your happiness is coming from them and I can't understand why.

Click to expand...

Never having had a girlfriend and having to pay for sex will do that to a guy.

Thanks for the idea of the roll reversal but I don't know if I can pull something like that off. That situation would require the building of sexual tension.

She's trying to mess with you because she knows you want her more than she wants you

Click to expand...

That's an interesting observation. At this point though I really don't know. I actually wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't know that I want her. In my past, several girls that I hung out regularly with had no idea I was interested in them.

Maxtro said:

That's an interesting observation. At this point though I really don't know. I actually wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't know that I want her. In my past, several girls that I hung out regularly with had no idea I was interested in them.

Click to expand...

You should know! If you don't know, then you are doing it wrong!

Why not focus on improving that?

Of course I'm doing it wrong I'm still trying to learn how girls work and the only way to do that is through interaction.

It's the difference between book smarts and street smarts.