Please help me, I keep failing to change my body.

The problem
I've been training for 6 years now and I'm still skinny fat, meaning: I'm a small guy with a belly. Outside the gym nobody would notice that I lift weights...
All of this just makes me so disappointed in myself. I can't even look at myself in the mirror anymore. I just feel like a failure, like I'm never going to achieve what I want. I don't want to give up though, it's just that I don't know how much failure I can take with this f*cked up body...

What do I want? Well, consistent progress would be a nice start. A bodyfat % of 10 would be even nicer and it would totally rock if I had the kind of body that makes people's head turn and then turn again out of fear I would kill them with my bare hands.

Background
I started at 16 just trying all kinds of exercises all day, later adopted a bodybuilding split but it didn't work for me. Finally, around the age of 19, I found Stronglifts and Starting Strength. I made tremendous progress, but not in physical appearance. Then the progress stopped, switched to the Madcow program and finally I lost a lot of strength.

Now this evening I had workout that shattered the last bit of ego I had. When I lift the weight, I just feel like falling asleep, almost passing out, all the strength just flows away...

I have been reading stuff on the internet for hours and hours and hours. Like the stuff on Stronglifts.com, Bodybuilding.com, T-nation, The Vault on this forum. But there are so many guru's out there and all of them claim to know it all. Unfortuately most of them are just scrawny guys like me or on the juice.


Stats
Height: 1.75-1.78 m
Weight: 90 Kg
Bodyfat: estimated 15-20%

Squat: 112.5 Kg (2RM)
Bench Press: 80 Kg (1RM)
Deadlift: 112.5 Kg (5RM)
Overhead Press: 52.5 (3RM)
Power Clean: 70 Kg (3RM)
Dips: 4 times bodyweight
Chin-ups: 0 times
Turkish Get-ups: 18 Kg (3RM)

Diet
I changed my diet a lot the past 6 years, without good results though. Started with eating lots of oatmeal and milk, potatoes, vegetables and a bit of meat and eggs.

Later, changed it to a a gallon of milk a day with lots of peanuts.

Right now, I'm eating this:

8 slices of whole wheat bread with cheese, slices of chicken and cucumber. (peri workout or in the morning)
4 eggs.
2 pieces of lean red meat.
1 can of tuna
2 liter of 0% fat yoghurt
1 tablespoon olive oil and a bit of tomato pulp

Sleep
I wake up a lot during the night, like every 3 hours. Even when I'm really tired. I do sleep 8 hours straight now and then, but when I wake up, I still don't feel like I've rested enough. Ironically, when it is time to sleep, I don't feel like sleeping anymore. It doesn't seem to matter wether I just wake up early after a few hours of sleep or compensate by sleeping more.

Cardio
University makes me sit on my butt all day. I do walk a bit each day and on rest days I'm going to the gym to work on my flexibility, which doesn't progress at all by the way despite consistent effort. Started today with 10 minutes on the rowing machine post workouts and did some complexes in the past. I guess I should add this, but I really need a plan and something functional.

In short
I hate the way I look, but I keep failing to change it. Please help me to change my skinny fat body. I'd really appreciate it.

6 years eh? Most people have it figured out by 1/2 that time. Well I'm here to help and all you have to do is actually put huge effort in the gym and in the kitchen. Stop reading **** everywhere...A lot of people contradict each other and I can see how people get confused. I also despise we have people listening to "strength coaches", when they have physique goals in mind. Plus many don't know the first thing about building an aesthetic physique the Greeks would've been proud of!!

It's like wanting to take lessons to learn how to play the guitar and instead going a teacher who only knows the violin.

Listen to bodybuilders more and spend more time in the gym and actually talking to people who look like they train.

As far as dropping that BF% a little....
Just have 1/2 scoop of protein powder or some BCAA's (branch chain amino acids) and do fasted morning cardio every morning(if you're really sitting @20% bf, getting down to 15 would be more acceptable). Maybe some barbell/bodyweight complexes/jump roping thrown in on days off and you're gold. .


Get started on this routine....Pick out of the exercises I have lined up. Or if stuff is limited let me know and we can tweak some things.

Chest/Tris/Bis
legs
off
shoulders/back
off
Rinse lather repeat....


When pressing for chest, always make sure to retract shoulder blades nice and tight get chest high...no huge arch in back is necessary we're not powerlifting here. Keep shoulders on bench as well. Deep breath on the way down....stay tight slow negative and push up explosively..

chest movements Pick 2 out of these ramping up/warming up to 1-2 all out sets to failure. Add maybe one rest pause if using a machine (10-12 sec pause after failure then go at it again)

low incline barbell press/smith low incline press
hammerstrength machine incline/iso flat
dumbbell work incline/flat/decline (higher reps say 8-15 reps for final set)
smith machine low decline/or barbbell

now pick one fly movment (2-3 sets 8-15 reps)
machine flys/
low incline cable flys/
low/flat/decline dumbbell flys

Triceps pick one main pressing movement
close grip bench press off pins (bar should be like 4-5 inches off chest, elbows should be close to side and tucked on the way down, push up while pulling apart the bar, with flares in the elbows to activate tris more)

smith machine reverse grip bench press
smith machine inhuman close grip bench press
(take bench and set it up so ass is hanging off the end, helps you get better leverage, everything else is same setup as CGBP shoulder blades retracted/stay tight etc etc)

here's a reverse grip bench press video with setup I mentioned, demonstrated here (it's at 3:47 mark)

Hammerstrength machine dips

now pick one extension/pullover (2-3 sets to failure higher rep area 10-20 rep area)
pjr pullovers
larry scott extensions
dead skull crushers/lying tricep extensions as done here (always going behind the head) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1AZebtYyA0&feature=PlayList&p=E2078BBA6F8 8DC36&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2

Pressdowns are k the above are better though...if you do pressdowns go with a close grip with elbows tucked

legs
pick 1-2 hamstring exercises
leg curls (6-12 rep area)
stifflegged deadlifts/romanian deadlifts/db sldls (8-15 rep area)

quads (ramp up on one to all out set to 6-10 reps) (Then after a rest do the same exercise or another one and take what you think you can get 10 with and push for 20 reps) ( I would avoid doing 20-reppers with front squats though as your back will get fatigued before legs, unless you do them in the smith machine )
barbell front squats/smith machine front squats
hack squats
leg press

calves (I alternate workout to workout)
seated
standing

shoulders pick one main pressing movement ramp up to 1-2 all out sets 6-15 reps

smith machine behind-the-neck press (ear level)
hammerstrength BHTN press
seated pin press (set pins so bar is like at forehead height)
regular seated shoulder press
smith machine high incline shoulder press

pick one lateral movement
machine laterals
db seated/standing laterals
cable laterals

2-3 sets 10-15 reps

Back width exercise pick 1-2 all out sets 8-15 reps
lat pulldowns (underhanded close grip or pronated)
hammerstrength high rows
rack chinups
machine assisted pullups/chinups


back pick 1-2 rowing/rack deadlift movements (if you did stiff legged deadlifts/Romanian dls on your leg day skip deadlifts as to not wear out your lower back to much, you can do them next work out just acknowledge your lower back recovery!)

yates rows (supinated)
barbell rows
dumbbell rows
t-bar rows (can be done one handed also)
rack deadlifts (pins set right at knee level, just below or slighty above)
seated cable rows


Ramp up to one all out set of 6-10 reps

Rest then do another all out set to 12-15 reps

Like last workout for instance I did rack deadlifts at knee level ramped up to 365X6

Then I did seated cable rows with something like 140X15 or something.

That was it for back thickness work.

The rep ranges I mentioned are just a guideline ...you might respond better to higher reps or lower then I mentioned so gauge this ........Focus on getting stronger in those rep ranges....always perfecting technique/form and going for either more reps or weight each session. Of course it will not always be linear...Yet do your best. Give your body a ****in reason to want to hang onto or gain muscle.....and become a human blast furnace by eating lots of protein/veggies/goodfats!!! Every time you walk into that weight room, whisper under your breath "I'm one bad ass mother****er and nothing is going to get in the way of my goals"

That's the mentality you should have...**** some days I get barely 3-4 hours of rest but I just pound the food hard throughout the day and get my ass into that gym and obliterate whatever muscle groups I had lined up for the day.

I have a feeling you did more reading and analyzing versus just getting your ass in the gym consistently and eating decent amounts of food. Like 1.5 2 grams of protein X BW in protein powder, steaks/beef, whole eggs, chicken/turkey, fish everyday!!!

Those numbers are **** for 6 years worth of training. Stop wasting your time and just get on only ONE routine and hammer it for a few years. Don't over analyze just be precise with food intake, intensity and form/technique on exercises.

Follow my journal also to get an idea of how your warmups and work sets should look like. again though it's just so you can get a picture of what to do not necessarily how you should do it exactly

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=170855

I'm doing a tweaked version of what I gave you...You can do mine as well up to you.

chest/tris
bis/forearms/legs
off
shoulders/back
off

Here's thoughts on foods courtesy of a buddy from another forum..

CarlitosWay said:

Drink plenty of water gallon + a day. Always eat protein first at every meal. take in the majority of your carbs (huge amounts) around work outs. It's like a window of opportunity =). Eat your good fats at other times of the day when you're not real active (i.e. before bed) things like natural peanut butter, raw almonds/walnuts, straight tablespoons of light tasting olive oil (or pure/extra virgin if you're hardcore)



Do all this and don't lift like a pansy and I can't see how you can not reach your goal.


Foods to eat ....

> Protein. Most people set it at 1 to 2 grams per pound of bodyweight, or if going by percentage of a diet, 30 to 40% of total intake -whatever floats your boat. This topic has been beaten to death!

Protein list
pork
beef
chicken
cottage cheese
cheese
protein powder
turkey
eggs
egg whites
all kinds of fish - oily (salmon, trout, sardine, mackerel) and lean (tuna, halibut, cod, flounder, and so on)
yogurt (has carbs too - actually more carbs than protein)
Greek yogurt (less carbs, more protein)

> Starcy carbs. Most people set it as 30 to 50 percent of the diet, depending on how good they do with them. I personally do quite ****ty with a ton of starchy carbs, but if you do good with them, so be it.

Starchy carb list
quinoa
whole-grain bread
whole-grain pasta
brown rice
oatmeal
oat bran
corn
sweet potato

> Fruits, beans, veggies. This is what has been recommended to make up most of your carbs throughout the day, thanks to nutritionists Lonnie Lowery and John Berardi. I'm with them. Eat these with most of your meals and leave the starchy carbs for the post workout and breakfast meals, unless you're extremely active, have an insane caloric allotment, or do great with them.

List
All veggies
All fruits
All beans

> Fats. Make up 30 percent of the diet. 1/3 saturated, 1/3 monounsaturated, 1/3 polyunsaturated. I don't bother counting this, but make sure I get a blend of fats.

List
olive oil
fish oil (I don't take caps. I eat a piece of salmon or a can of sardines.)
flaxseeds
flaxseed oil
nuts
coconut oil
macadamia nut oil
egg yolks
full-fat cheese
medium- to high-fat meats

> P + C and P + F versus mixed meal war. Do what works for you and what you have faith in. I'm with Berardi and Lowery.

> Peri-workout. Whey and/or milk protein or can of tuna and whatever simple carb floats your damn boat! Yeah, it can be a can of coke, low-fat chocolate milk, Surge, OJ, grape juice, or Kool Aid powder. I've used all sources and I've not noticed one damn difference in my physique, strength, or recuperative ability. Or you can actually live on the edge and go next door to the Chinaman and order a SOLID MEAL (gasp) of brown rice, steamed chicken, and veggies.

> Supplements. Most are **** and unnecessary. If you're eating 6 to 10 servings of veggies and fruits per day and eating enough nutrient-dense food overall, you don't need much, if any, of them.


Now I ****ing dare anyone to tell me what else needs to be here or what else 99 percent of newbies, intermediate, and even some advanced people need!

Click to expand...

some food for thought

Dante (from DC training) said:

My point of this post is to get guys in their early 20's to think, to get guys who just blew 10 years of training who are in their 30's to think, and to get guys who just blew 10-15 years of training who are in their 40's to think. Am I advising bulking up? No that was a hypothetical example. Im advising you get your freaking head on straight if you want this so bad. That means extreme food intake pronto, with the heaviest weights in good form that you can use progressively, extreme stretching and enough cardio (and bodyfat protocols) that it keeps you at a leaness your satisfied with as you get dramatically larger. This sport isnt unlike a career. You have to set yourself up early so you can be right where you want to be late. Theres alot of you guys 35-45 years old in this forum, some that I even train, that think they want it but really dont have what it takes to go get it. I see it in their workouts they send me (they take the easy comfortable road never pushing the limits) and for those that I dont train I sometimes see it in your posts---you just dont have what it takes. I can only provide a guide to get there, I cant create an inner drive for you.
You have to start thinking in terms of point B from point A. Do you really think that eating 3000 calories with 225 grams of protein and doing the Weider "confusion training principle" to keep your body offguard will somehow magically make your 175lbs into 250lbs of rock granite monstrosity? Every year of training is so damn important. If you just trained for a whole year and only gained 2lbs of muscle mass, you just pretty much wasted a productive year of training--its gone--its lost and you arent getting that year back. Three weeks ago I was contacted by someone in his early 40's who had been lifting for many years, weighed about 170lbs and showed me a picture of Geir Borgan Paulsen and said thats what he wanted to look like and can i get him there?!. Laughable. Geir Borgan Paulsen is 50 years old and looks freaking phenomenal. He is a tiny bit (and i mean every so slightly tiny bit smaller) than he was when he competed in his 30's. Instead of wasting years and years of lifting getting absolutely nowhere, Geir spent his 20's and 30's eating huge amounts of food and training with heavy heavy weights so that he could walk around all thru his 30's, 40's and now 50 years old jacked to the hilt. Not many people have a better front double biceps than Geir no matter what age they are.....here he is http://www.nutritionoutlet.nu/galler...02/borgan.html
What Im hoping to relay to you slackers and dreamers that are in this forum is that you have to put your time in and pay your dues in this sport. Your 2-3lbs gain a year arent going to get it done so unless you want to get to 55 years old and look back and think "wow besides the people I told and myself, noone even knew I was a bodybuilder and I never made it"....you better get your ass in gear and your head on right and get this done now. Gaining fat is easy but if you never lifted how long would it take for you to gain 80lbs of fat from 175 to 255lbs? Probably a year and you would have to forcefeed yourself to get there. Just think how long it takes to put on 80lbs of muscle mass which is an extremely "hard to come by" commodity. This sport is about extremes--using weights you havent used previously, taking in amounts of food to build greater muscle mass-in amounts you never have done previously, and GETTING THE CARDIO DONE to keep you at an acceptable offseason training bodyfat that keeps you happy. Get your act together and think this all out or quit your complaining and dreaming and take up tennis.

Click to expand...

I just did a little conversion from metric to American and got these results.

90 kg = 198 lbs
1.75-1.78 m = 5'7-5'8

In my opinion you are way over the target weight, if the data you gave is correct. Also being that heavy and having 15-20% is unlikely. At your height you'd either be really fat or be completely ripped. You may be taller than you think you are.

For comparison, I'll give my stats

5'6 or 1.71 meters
161 lbs or 73 kg
23% BF (according to my scale)

I honestly can't imagine being 37 lbs heavier. My gut would be huge.

Maxtro said:

I just did a little conversion from metric to American and got these results.

90 kg = 198 lbs
1.75-1.78 m = 5'7-5'8

In my opinion you are way over the target weight, if the data you gave is correct. Also being that heavy and having 15-20% is unlikely. At your height you'd either be really fat or be completely ripped. You may be taller than you think you are.

For comparison, I'll give my stats

5'6 or 1.71 meters
161 lbs or 73 kg
23% BF (according to my scale)

I honestly can't imagine being 37 lbs heavier. My gut would be huge.

Click to expand...

Well if his max out numbers are legit. He has to be carrying a big amount of BF. Cause most people I know at his height and weight who are relatively lean. Are pushing pretty big weights for reps! So something is seriously wrong here. I'm questioning his work out intensity.

You can have the perfect diet and routine. Yet with out pure unrelenting effort and intensity, that has you leaving the gym in a uplifting but real fatigued state, won't get you **** for results.

Genetics aside, there's plenty of people who have mediocre/crappy diets and don't rest enough but actually BRING IT in the gym and end up still getting some decent results.

Mad World said:

Height: 1.75-1.78 m
Weight: 90 Kg
Bodyfat: estimated 15-20%

Squat: 112.5 Kg (2RM)
Bench Press: 80 Kg (1RM)
Deadlift: 112.5 Kg (5RM)
Overhead Press: 52.5 (3RM)
Power Clean: 70 Kg (3RM)
Dips: 4 times bodyweight
Chin-ups: 0 times
Turkish Get-ups: 18 Kg (3RM)

Click to expand...

You've been training for 6 years and these are your stats? Something is very wrong here... How long have you been doing the big lifts?

Get your hormones checked

Testosterone, estrogen ect

Alot of things in your post suggest very low T levels, infact your entire post does

Thank you for your replies. I am serious, my stats are legimate. My story is true.

JDiddy
I wonder if the doctors let me. I don't think it's convincing to say 'hi doctor, I'm getting bad workout results, would you please test my T?' But suppose they let me and it turns out negative. Would I be getting testosterone under medical supervision?
By the way, I do have a huge sex drive.

Kerpal
I started out with only the Bench Press as big lift. Practiced every day at first, 4 days a week later. Stalled at 50 Kg. It was only 2-3 years ago I discovered the 5x5 programs and made serious progress.

Maxtro

Yes, I have a big belly. I was drinking gallons of milk because I was frustrated with my lack of progress...

CarlitosWay
That's just one of the most tragic things, because I'm working my ass off. I'm grinding out reps to push the limits, to add a little more weight, even when feeling sick, tired and completely drained, I lift that ****, like 5 times my 1 RM. And yes it's pretty frustrating to see people not nearly push as hard with diet and sleep but still lifting big weights, although sadly, I'm one of the strongest in my gym. It's a cheap gym with lots of lazy students.

I really appreciate your motivation. I was told that cardio leads to overtraining and diminished results of strength training and indeed, barbell complexes left me completely drained. I suppose I need to do it though, but I really like my workouts to be functional, with lots of carry over to real life. And I'm seriously considering joining the military, but I can't in this state...So I guess I need to run as a cardio exercise, but I also need to progress. Do you have any idea of a progressive cardio plan?

Your bodybuilding routine makes me confused again. I didn't progress very well on a split routine in the past plus there are so many isolation exercises and machines in it. Some of those machines aren't even in my gym and they have so little carry over to real life. I'm afraid of losing that little strength I have left in me. (Yes, I'm stubborn )

But I do get the point. I should be doing more volume, add in some extensions and curls here and there. How do you progress on your routine by the way? Just try more reps and more weight, depending on how you feel? When is it time to deload?

My diet is restricted to the foods you listed. I should be eating more protein though, but you can understand that I'm afraid of getting even fatter.

The article was sad to read by the way. I don't want to be 50 and feel like having wasted my time...I want to swim this summer, without being ashamed.

About stretching: right now I'm doing it almost every day Like 30 times of shoulder dislocations for the past half year. Guess what? My grip on the broomstick didn't get any smaller. How the f*ck can that be. Been practicing splits as well, but my legs aren't going any further then 100 degrees. I'm doing it multiple times and hold it for 30 seconds. I can touch hands behind my back with my right hand on top, but not the other way around, despite practicing hard. Same as with toe touching. Been doing that for weeks now and can't reach further than my ankles. I mean wtf is wrong with me? So I wonder how you stretch.

You're doing something wrong. Are there any personal trainers in your gym? Guys who have Anyone at all that you can ask for advice?

Being_the_Don said:

You're doing something wrong. Are there any personal trainers in your gym? Guys who have Anyone at all that you can ask for advice?

Click to expand...

Not really. There are some supervisors, but they are old, skinny and runners, not bodybuilders. There are no big guys in my gym either...

Mad World said:

Thank you for your replies. I am serious, my stats are legimate. My story is true.

JDiddy
I wonder if the doctors let me. I don't think it's convincing to say 'hi doctor, I'm getting bad workout results, would you please test my T?' But suppose they let me and it turns out negative. Would I be getting testosterone under medical supervision?
By the way, I do have a huge sex drive.

Don't be a baby, who give's a **** what the doctor thinks about you wanting to get some tests done. If you have health insurance YOU have all the RIGHT in the world to see what your food intolerance's/allergies( I suggest you get this done to) , testosterone levels and hdl/ldl cholesterol levels are. It'll at least give you ease of mind knowing all this.


Kerpal
I started out with only the Bench Press as big lift. Practiced every day at first, 4 days a week later. Stalled at 50 Kg. It was only 2-3 years ago I discovered the 5x5 programs and made serious progress.

Maxtro

Yes, I have a big belly. I was drinking gallons of milk because I was frustrated with my lack of progress...

You probably have an intolerance/allergy to milk lactose..Even if mild it'll cause your body to add considerable amounts of fat. In the end tho for most people sugar/carbs/fat do not mix!

CarlitosWay
That's just one of the most tragic things, because I'm working my ass off. I'm grinding out reps to push the limits, to add a little more weight, even when feeling sick, tired and completely drained, I lift that ****, like 5 times my 1 RM. And yes it's pretty frustrating to see people not nearly push as hard with diet and sleep but still lifting big weights, although sadly, I'm one of the strongest in my gym. It's a cheap gym with lots of lazy students.


Wow indeed sad.
Would be nice if you could switch gyms and actually lift around some real serious people. That way you could be a product of that environment. So next best thing is, CREATE your own "let's get **** done vibe every time you hit your gym"

I really appreciate your motivation. I was told that cardio leads to overtraining and diminished results of strength training and indeed, barbell complexes left me completely drained.

No who the **** told you cardio leads to "overtraining" and "diminished results"? I'd like to punch them in the face...That is the kind of bull **** advice that aggravates me to no end. Bottom line sounds like you're packing WAY to much fat and you need to be doing fasted morning cardio every day if possible. Doing what I mentioned 1/2 scoop whey protein, bcaa's or a real small meal (couple eggs maybe some peanutbutter or oatmeal).


Jump roping is real great though...start doing it coupled with long brisk walks.


Take a serious look at your diet also. You need to think of your body as if it's a high octane burning super sports car. You don't go putting the cheapest gas in it, when the manual indicates "high octane premium unleaded 93+ for optimal performance)


I suppose I need to do it though, but I really like my workouts to be functional, with lots of carry over to real life.

Functional training? What the **** is "functional" training exactly? What do you want to learn how to balance on a bosu ball with one leg while curling pink 5lb dumbbells to work out your "Stabilizer muscles", "core" and all that ****?!

Also the reality is a lot of people don't have real coaches or knowledgeable people helping them get form/technique down on the big lifts. Guess what happens if you have ****ty form/technique and start adding more plates to bars over the years? You're asking for injuries/strains later on. Let's think about longevity, staying healthy while getting big and strong. This is why I stress, find SOME ONE ANYBODY! to help you in the gym.

I don't give a **** what anyone says you can only teach so much over the computer, being there and actually watching the person setup and execute in person is very important


And I'm seriously considering joining the military, but I can't in this state...So I guess I need to run as a cardio exercise, but I also need to progress. Do you have any idea of a progressive cardio plan?

Nice to hear, I'm leaving for the Navy at the end of the year.

Running = overrated .. Once you drop a nice chunk of bodyfat by doing what I mentioned before then you can consider doing some tempo running/sprints. Sprints>running all day though. What ever branch you're going to join look it up most the times it's only required you run X miles in at least X amount of time. So if you drop all that extra BF and then concentrate on meeting the requirements. It shouldn't be that hard at all. Plus with all the extra weight you're carry now, could be hell on your ankles/knees especially running on unforgiving surfaces like concrete/asphalt.

Your bodybuilding routine makes me confused again. I didn't progress very well on a split routine in the past plus there are so many isolation exercises and machines in it. Some of those machines aren't even in my gym and they have so little carry over to real life. I'm afraid of losing that little strength I have left in me. (Yes, I'm stubborn )

lol yeah like rotating some machine work with your barbell work will some how "zap" your strength. C'mon now man think outside the ****ing [ ]....Do you think you're body gives a **** if it's a machine or barbell giving the resistance? NO!!! all it knows is it's getting put to work and if you're lifting heavy enough and providing enough TENSION. All it will want to do is break down and build it's back up stronger and bigger for next time, yet this depends if you're eating and resting enough!!!


I'm curious as to how you set it up. If my guess is right, you didn't even have a clue what you were doing. Probably ate like a pigeon and walked around aimlessly when in the gym doing "whatever". Probably didn't even ramp/warmup up to your bigger weights right or anything....

Let's be real here....The biggest guys I know UTILIZE EVERYTHING. Machines, isolation exercises, BARBELLS, dumbbells, squat/deadlift/bench press variations.. ALL OF IT. If you deny this or jump on the only do bench press, squat and deadlift band wagon. You're NAIVE. Find what works for you and you only scrap the rest no matter what an internet guru says about "having" to do this or that.

So let's say I only use the hammer strength incline machine or smith machine (just an example, like I said use it all!) and in 1 1/2-2 years add 100-150 lbs to the weight I was pressing for 8 controlled reps, slow negative big explosion etc etc...while eating nice amounts of protein,timing carbs right, Eating my good fats and Getting adequate rest what not.

Don't you think regardless of it being a machine, am I not going to get bigger, stronger? Bottom line if you have physique goals. Try different things out, you might just be surprised.


But I do get the point. I should be doing more volume, add in some extensions and curls here and there. How do you progress on your routine by the way? Just try more reps and more weight, depending on how you feel? When is it time to deload?

Yeah it's something called autoregulation. autoregulation - A biological system equipped with inhibitory feedback systems such that a given change tends to be largely or completely counteracted.

So some days I'm like you know what I'm feeling strong as **** let's go for some extra reps ...or lets add 10 lbs to this lift. Sometimes **** doesn't transpire...maybe drop some weight, sharpen up on form. Work that "mind-to-muscle" connection. Always think about progressing in some form or another and leave with some positive accomplished.

You know which people really need to "deload" are experienced people already pushing some pretty heavy weights, like POWERLIFTERS. I take days of here or there, or go lighter/work on form technique. Yet I never say I'm going to "deload". wtf....we're trying to build up a nice looking physique here, not hit a huge big 3 total. Are we not?


My diet is restricted to the foods you listed. I should be eating more protein though, but you can understand that I'm afraid of getting even fatter.


Stop being a *****, eat your protein.. It's thermogenic..your body literally burns lots of calories just digesting the stuff. Like I said before always eat a nice portion of PROTEIN before ANYTHING. If most people stopped eating **** and overloading on carbs...upped their protein + veggies. We would have much more leaner people walking around.

The article was sad to read by the way. I don't want to be 50 and feel like having wasted my time...I want to swim this summer, without being ashamed.

Don't tell me this ****, tell yourself this every day and then prove it to yourself how bad you want it......


About stretching: right now I'm doing it almost every day Like 30 times of shoulder dislocations for the past half year. Guess what? My grip on the broomstick didn't get any smaller. How the f*ck can that be. Been practicing splits as well, but my legs aren't going any further then 100 degrees. I'm doing it multiple times and hold it for 30 seconds. I can touch hands behind my back with my right hand on top, but not the other way around, despite practicing hard. Same as with toe touching. Been doing that for weeks now and can't reach further than my ankles. I mean wtf is wrong with me? So I wonder how you stretch.

Click to expand...

Do some foam rolling of shoulders/ legs hips/adductors/ upper back and what not...you can use a rolling pin/ lacross ball/ golf ball(for shoulder area). Hell a 1/2 empty water bottle can even work. .

Roll a ball under your foot and it'll help loosen up the fascia that runs from your feet up to your head. Couple this with all your stretching, plus lifting. I'm sure you'll gain some flexibility....

Great tips, I learned a few things:

1 Add cardio, period. On forums like Stronglifts.com and anything Rippetoe related they advise to be careful with cardio.

2 Keep progressing one way or another. I've been trying to Overhead Press 5x60 Kg, but failed, so started with 40 again adding 2.5 Kg each workout, but stalled on 60 Kg again and again. I guess I should just keep increasing reps and sets until I can do it.

3 I'll add foam rolling.

4 I'm already eating high quality food, but I guess I should eat more protein and more veggies.

There are some things I need to explain though.

- About functionality: suppose I have to save a girl from an angry lion, then jump roping wouldn't do me any good. Sprinting however would allow me to get to the girl before the lion does. I need cave man qualities and I've never seen a cave man on a stairmaster either. Things like rowing or jump roping to get a better every day condition just sounds like masturbating to get better at sex. SOmething doesn't feel right about it.

-I'm not wondering around aimlessly. This is my routine now.

Monday
Squat
Bench Press
Power Clean
Dips

5x5, ramping up to top set.

Wednesday
Squat
Overhead Press
Deadlift
Pull-ups

4x5, ramping up to topset. (Max weight on Squat as heavy as the third set on monday)

Friday
Squat
Bench Press
Power Clean
Turkish Get-ups.

4x5, ramping up again, then 1x3 with 2.5 Kg more than monday, followed buy 1x8 with the weight of the third set.

Every Monday, I increase the weight with 2.5 Kg. If I fail, I keep the weight the same for 3 weeks max and if I keep failing, I start 10 Kg lighter.

Sounds like plan, right?

- I tried leg pressing and the pec deck today. Turns out I can handle all of the weight...So the machines in my gym aren't any good. Other gyms in town are even worse. There's a Fitness First gym and it doesn't even have a Squat rack...

- I'm not afraid of the machines zapping my strength, I'm afraid of the very low frequency on a split. Bench Pressing, Squatting or Deadlifting every 7 days is not enough for my body.

- Still, how can I progress on cardio? Just do it till I can't do anymore, measure the time and do some more next time? Or just increase with 1 minute every day?

Mad World said:

Great tips, I learned a few things:

1 Add cardio, period. On forums like Stronglifts.com and anything Rippetoe related they advise to be careful with cardio.

Most the time you have clueless skinny ass ****s starting on those routines, who yeah most of the time should keep any intense cardio to a minimum.

Yet even then I wouldn't start any of them on a routine like that if they're actually trying to build a real physique...yet I know others will chime in as defenders of "rippetoe's starting strength" and "Strong lifts 5X5". When in reality plenty of people have started on many, many different kinds of routines *cough bodybuilding splits cough* and have gotten noticeably BIG quick

2 Keep progressing one way or another. I've been trying to Overhead Press 5x60 Kg, but failed, so started with 40 again adding 2.5 Kg each workout, but stalled on 60 Kg again and again. I guess I should just keep increasing reps and sets until I can do it.

you alternating shoulder pressing movements? e.g. shoulder db presses (higher rep 10-15), smith incline presses, machine shoulder work. I see no lateral raises any where also? Add a couple sets 2-3 of 10-15 reps...using either cables, machine or dbs. Large delts create a wider look and makes your waist look smaller.

Doing any seated barbell shoulder presses also? Pins set a tad under forehead height allows for good loads and lets you hammer shoulders good. Go higher reps though. I think you need more volume/higher reps added in.


3 I'll add foam rolling.

good

4 I'm already eating high quality food, but I guess I should eat more protein and more veggies.

Shoot for at least 1.5-2 X lean body mass in protein grams and drop most of your carbs except around workouts. (so take your bodyweight - BF% and that's your lean mass)

There are some things I need to explain though.

- About functionality: suppose I have to save a girl from an angry lion, then jump roping wouldn't do me any good. Sprinting however would allow me to get to the girl before the lion does. I need cave man qualities and I've never seen a cave man on a stairmaster either. Things like rowing or jump roping to get a better every day condition just sounds like masturbating to get better at sex. SOmething doesn't feel right about it.

lol lions, jump roping not good, cavemans on stairmasters? You listening to yourself man?! You sound delusional!! Jump roping is one of the best conditioning tools you can have at your disposal any time.

Yeah I guess jump roping hasn't done **** for this guys hand to eye coordination, conditioning and cardiovascular health and many other MMA fighters/boxers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD3uicAYtdw


-I'm not wondering around aimlessly. This is my routine now.

Monday
Squat
Bench Press
Power Clean
Dips

5x5, ramping up to top set.

Wednesday
Squat
Overhead Press
Deadlift
Pull-ups


4x5, ramping up to topset. (Max weight on Squat as heavy as the third set on monday)

Friday
Squat
Bench Press
Power Clean
Turkish Get-ups.

4x5, ramping up again, then 1x3 with 2.5 Kg more than monday, followed buy 1x8 with the weight of the third set.

Every Monday, I increase the weight with 2.5 Kg. If I fail, I keep the weight the same for 3 weeks max and if I keep failing, I start 10 Kg lighter.

Sounds like plan, right?

I don't understand. You say you want to have a nice physique no? Why not train like a bodybuilder. This is a beginner routine and even THEN I wouldn't have one do it, I think it sucks that much, is outdated and recycled way to much. You have been training for 6 pathetic years...Get your head out your ass and actually add some variation and get your ass in the gym more then 3 days a week cause OBVIOUSLY training 3 days a week with low volume hasn't done **** for you.

this is basic as it gets

chest/tris/bis
legs
off
shoulders/back

hell westside for skinny bastards even blows that routine out of the water...www.defrancotraining.com/articles.html At least it gets you in the gym 4-5 times a week.

- I tried leg pressing and the pec deck today. Turns out I can handle all of the weight...So the machines in my gym aren't any good. Other gyms in town are even worse. There's a Fitness First gym and it doesn't even have a Squat rack...

You handled the whole stack for 10-15 controlled reps no problem? (doubt it, or you have a real pansy ass gym) If so find a chain, attach a dumbbell to it for more weight

- I'm not afraid of the machines zapping my strength, I'm afraid of the very low frequency on a split. Bench Pressing, Squatting or Deadlifting every 7 days is not enough for my body.

Look at my journal...It's far from "low" frequency. All my muscles are getting hit twice every 7-8 days. Hard. I have combos of front squats, machine squats, rack deadlifts, barbell rows and bench press variations. All these exercises getting each done twice a week.

- Still, how can I progress on cardio? Just do it till I can't do anymore, measure the time and do some more next time? Or just increase with 1 minute every day?

Click to expand...

Don't stress over this just get it done every morning. 30-45 minutes. Pop some caffeine pills throw on your mp3 player, set it at a moderate speed/ 3-5 mph slight incline and just DO IT. Bicycle is also very good. You can do intervals on a bicycle...Go real hard for 30 seconds....stop and go steady pace for 5 minutes...rinse lather repeat for 20-30 minutes.

Mad World said:

Not really. There are some supervisors, but they are old, skinny and runners, not bodybuilders. There are no big guys in my gym either...

Click to expand...

Check out the fitness journals of some of the guys in this Forum; Quagmire, Kerpal, Quiksilver me and a few other guys have been posting on here for years. You might pick up some clues as to what you need to correct in your workouts.

Mad World said:

But suppose they let me and it turns out negative. Would I be getting testosterone under medical supervision?
By the way, I do have a huge sex drive.

Click to expand...

Yes, you'd be getting TRT, but only enough to boost you to average-below average.
Your huge sex drive pretty much invalidates my low T theory, but could be a hormone problem anyway.
The reason I said get your hormones checked were you describing your bad sleep, plus the way you described the loss of drive and energy when you lift your weights but that could be related to your sleep issues.

My recommendation is go get a hormone levels/balance check to make absolutely sure, and also mention your sleeping problems. You could be having that problem where you stop breathing during sleep.

I've read your logs and you guys are doing pretty much the same thing! Though training inconsistent, with more volume and isolation exercises but stil training the big lifts every other day. Like modified versions of Stronglifts and Starting Strength. Progressing linear, but I was told that it stops when you reach 1.5 times bodyweight Squat. Plus sometimes you don't finish a workout when you feel sick. So in general, you're doing pretty much the same thing as me, but getting better results. Except for
Carlitos, he trains with high volume and lots of machines. Furthermore, you're stats are not that much higher than mine. Some of you Squat 150 Kg, but I squatted140 Kg myself and I was still skinny. Same with Bench Pressing, you can lift about 90 Kg, I could do that six months ago...

Despite all this, if you guys have beautiful physiques, I guess the take home point for me is more isolation exercises, more cardio and more volume. And visit a doctor as well like Diddy says.

I did stretches this morning by the way. I am going to jump rope for life after my workout. I'll incorporate some fly's and barbell curls as well.

Mad World said:

The problem
I've been training for 6 years now and I'm still skinny fat, meaning: I'm a small guy with a belly. Outside the gym nobody would notice that I lift weights...
All of this just makes me so disappointed in myself. I can't even look at myself in the mirror anymore. I just feel like a failure, like I'm never going to achieve what I want. I don't want to give up though, it's just that I don't know how much failure I can take with this f*cked up body...

What do I want? Well, consistent progress would be a nice start. A bodyfat % of 10 would be even nicer and it would totally rock if I had the kind of body that makes people's head turn and then turn again out of fear I would kill them with my bare hands.

Background
I started at 16 just trying all kinds of exercises all day, later adopted a bodybuilding split but it didn't work for me. Finally, around the age of 19, I found Stronglifts and Starting Strength. I made tremendous progress, but not in physical appearance. Then the progress stopped, switched to the Madcow program and finally I lost a lot of strength.

Now this evening I had workout that shattered the last bit of ego I had. When I lift the weight, I just feel like falling asleep, almost passing out, all the strength just flows away...

I have been reading stuff on the internet for hours and hours and hours. Like the stuff on Stronglifts.com, Bodybuilding.com, T-nation, The Vault on this forum. But there are so many guru's out there and all of them claim to know it all. Unfortuately most of them are just scrawny guys like me or on the juice.


Stats
Height: 1.75-1.78 m
Weight: 90 Kg
Bodyfat: estimated 15-20%

Squat: 112.5 Kg (2RM)
Bench Press: 80 Kg (1RM)
Deadlift: 112.5 Kg (5RM)
Overhead Press: 52.5 (3RM)
Power Clean: 70 Kg (3RM)
Dips: 4 times bodyweight
Chin-ups: 0 times
Turkish Get-ups: 18 Kg (3RM)

Diet
I changed my diet a lot the past 6 years, without good results though. Started with eating lots of oatmeal and milk, potatoes, vegetables and a bit of meat and eggs.

Later, changed it to a a gallon of milk a day with lots of peanuts.

Right now, I'm eating this:

8 slices of whole wheat bread with cheese, slices of chicken and cucumber. (peri workout or in the morning)
4 eggs.
2 pieces of lean red meat.
1 can of tuna
2 liter of 0% fat yoghurt
1 tablespoon olive oil and a bit of tomato pulp

Sleep
I wake up a lot during the night, like every 3 hours. Even when I'm really tired. I do sleep 8 hours straight now and then, but when I wake up, I still don't feel like I've rested enough. Ironically, when it is time to sleep, I don't feel like sleeping anymore. It doesn't seem to matter wether I just wake up early after a few hours of sleep or compensate by sleeping more.

Cardio
University makes me sit on my butt all day. I do walk a bit each day and on rest days I'm going to the gym to work on my flexibility, which doesn't progress at all by the way despite consistent effort. Started today with 10 minutes on the rowing machine post workouts and did some complexes in the past. I guess I should add this, but I really need a plan and something functional.

In short
I hate the way I look, but I keep failing to change it. Please help me to change my skinny fat body. I'd really appreciate it.

Click to expand...

Lots of possible things that could be holding you back. Here some things i notice. Incorrect long term training style for your goal, terrible diet with a huge lack of understanding on how to setup a diet in a methodical way and how to make it progressive in addition to being consistent with it(also making the correct food choices, meal timing, meal frequency, meal combos, eating speed and hydration) . Bad sleep patterns that are throwing off your recovery and also making a diet hard to follow consistently. Not doing cardio correctly.

You also may have bad genetics, low testerone levels (than can be raised with some basic supps) and bad digestion, that can also be fixed a lot with supps. You may have high stress levels as well.

What do you suggest? I ve read your stickies and you recommend Sarting Strength yourself. And to be honest, I don't see the difference between this diet:

Meal 1 - Shake +Raw Eggs
Meal 2- Beef/veggies
Meal 3- Shake + Raw Eggs
Meal 4- Beef/Veggies
Meal 5- Shake+ Raw Eggs
Meal 6- Chicken Or Tuna/ Fish Oil

And mine. I mean, I'm planning carbs around my workout and use nature protein (yoghurt) instead of artificial stuff. What am I missing here?

Mad World said:

What do you suggest? I ve read your stickies and you recommend Sarting Strength yourself. And to be honest, I don't see the difference between this diet:

Meal 1 - Shake +Raw Eggs
Meal 2- Beef/veggies
Meal 3- Shake + Raw Eggs
Meal 4- Beef/Veggies
Meal 5- Shake+ Raw Eggs
Meal 6- Chicken Or Tuna/ Fish Oil

And mine. I mean, I'm planning carbs around my workout and use nature protein (yoghurt) instead of artificial stuff. What am I missing here?

Click to expand...

The whole starting strength+simple starting diet, is a very basic cookie cutter setup that most beginners with limited knowledge can pick up and see some sort of progress with and its generally easy to follow. Its my no means the end of the line. It barely scratches the surface as far as body composition changes and strength training go.


Finding the solution your looking for is going to be tough by making a post here or most places. Your going to get fragments of information from people that all have different diet and training philosophies, so you'll end up with a pile of conflicting information and end up using it out of the context. You need to look at your training and diet as a long term project and understand how every element fits in to the overall plan. My advice to you would be to find someone willing to help you 1on1 be it in person or online and stick to that person's advice and overall training+diet philosophy for the entire year. Carlitos has offered you a lot here, maybe he'll take you under his wing if you ask him.

You can also hire someone like Ironaddict from ironaddicts.com, trainers at this site http://www.troponinnutrition.com/diet.htm to name a few.

You seem to CLOSE MINDED. I advise scrap everything you thought you knew beforehand or thought was mandatory about making a composition change. Training for pure strength and training/eating to see huge compisition changes can be two VERY DIFFERENT ANIMALS in the long run.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4398044233_7bc70be363_o.jpg
I made a collage of some lifters and me who I talk shop with about training/compisition changes and who have given me lots of valuable advice ...You know what we all have in common? We all train more then 3 days a week (some even training 6 days). We UTILIZE everything and what we FEEL works be it machines, isolation exercises, barbell and db movements. Most hitting body parts at least twice a week.

Our words and training methods are not engraved in stone, niether should everything you read online or hear from people. You have to get into the gym and find what exercises work for YOU and yes work out more then 3 times a week. If you're serious about a real compistion change.

great quote i heard today.

"If you want something bad enough, you do what it takes to get it. If not, you accept whatever you get. "


The only time I'll see myself going back to 3 days a week is when I'm big/strong enough and just waint to "maintain" whatever size or strength I have. Which I don't see myself doing until I'm a very old man .

I have yet to see pics of any ones physiques here...Yet I don't question guys like EFFORT cause I just know by reading words he KNOWS HIS ****.

I have yet to see to many people build an impressive physique or make a huge compisition change only training 3 days a week, with great genetics and gear aside.