Hi, turning 25 in a few weeks and am still a virgin

Been lurking here for a year or so. Was introduced by a friend of a friend. I'm turning 25 in a few weeks and I what I'm doing is obviously not working. So I'm gonna abandon what I'm doing and will start over with your advice guys.

So far I've been reading the various threads and the DJ Bible (thought I would say that because all I read in every newbie thread is "Read the DJ Bible"). I've learned the basics, but am still having major difficulty (lol, obviously if I'm still a virgin).

But I will admit while I know the basics I have lots of room to improve. I'm fairly confident (though my zero success with women does affect it a bit) as I know I'm a good person, and I am quite good looking (I'd show a pic but I don't like putting my pic on the internet). I'm well groomed, dress fairly well, smell decent (though I'm in need of new cologne). I have a ok education, currently finishing a comp science degree. I work a couple times a week as a server at a restaurant so I make a decent amount of money (at least enough to live comfortably and go out once or twice a week).

Now here's where I'll list my weaknesses. I can flirt fairly well, though I definitely have room to improve (with ****y & funny, negs, etc). I still have a bit of approach anxiety, but I can usually work up the courage and do it. I can usually get a girl's number when I ask (but I think that may be because girls give out their number to everyone nowadays). I know my biggest issue lies in not turning those numbers into dates (I've had only 1 actual date in my life). And I know I have an issue accepting rejection, usually I'll try and contact the girl and ask her out again after she rejects me and I know I should just move on. I'm working on it, it's slowly getting better. And I rely on texting way too much, I find myself always asking girls out over text. I'm not sure why, maybe it's because I think they'll respond more positively. Or maybe it's because everytime I call a girl she doesn't answer, or gives me a lame "I'll see" response when I ask.

I know nothing about what to do after I get the date, and have very little experience with anything sexual. So far the furthest I got was with 1 girl, made out with her, played with her tits and got a 10 sec ******* (she was afraid of getting caught because we were in her car at the time). After that I screwed it up by a combination of pushing her to have sex (kept inviting her back to my house before I developed comfort) and being too eager to hang out.

Anyway, I want to get a grip on this and improve. I'm working on improving my life. But obviously I can't do this myself, so I'm here asking for your help guys. I'll be a blank slate for your advice.

And speaking of not being able to do this myself, I don't have anyone I can call a wingman. Most of the guys I know aren't really great with women, they are mostly average guys that can still get girls but they don't really know how they do it. My best friend though is actually amazing with girls, he's always with these hot girls. But he doesn't live near me. He does try giving me simple advice, right now his thing is using Plenty of Fish to get girls (and it's working for him, he's sleeping with different girls off there every week). I tried it too because it worked so well for him but I've had no results at it, most of the girls on there don't even respond to my messages (not sure if it's because I'm not doing it right or if it's because the girls in his area are different).

So I don't know what else I can write. I've tried to be as detailed as possible. I am going to a party tomorrow where a girl I like is gonna be (she just got dumped by her bf) and I'll write a field report afterwards. The only issue with that girl is that a guy I'm working with is obviously going after her (and he's going after a few other girls I know too). I don't know if I can compete with him however, though I will give it my damndest (this that a word?).

So sorry about the length. Any advice would be appreciated.

Scion said:

The only issue with that girl is that a guy I'm working with is obviously going after her (and he's going after a few other girls I know too). I don't know if I can compete with him however, though I will give it my damndest (this that a word?).
So sorry about the length. Any advice would be appreciated.

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That sums up why you're having problems with women. You need to think of yourself as being higher value. Right now when it comes to women your mindset is all wrong. If you think they are higher value then you then you'll act like you're lower value.


The mistake many guys make is thinking up of excuses why women would not like them. The fact is its about how you make them feel. If you know no woman is out of your league then you'll act like that, they'll pick up on it and find you attractive.


Some quick tips for the party is to display positive body language. No crossed arms or legs, always make eye contact etc. Another think you should keep in mind is to treat women like little girls. Have fun with them, joke around, tease them etc. This says to them that you're confident etc and it creates good feelings for them.


Keep reading the site and eventually everything will make sense.

Shameless bump!

Any advice at all guys?

slaog said:

That sums up why you're having problems with women. You need to think of yourself as being higher value. Right now when it comes to women your mindset is all wrong. If you think they are higher value then you then you'll act like you're lower value.


The mistake many guys make is thinking up of excuses why women would not like them. The fact is its about how you make them feel. If you know no woman is out of your league then you'll act like that, they'll pick up on it and find you attractive.


Some quick tips for the party is to display positive body language. No crossed arms or legs, always make eye contact etc. Another think you should keep in mind is to treat women like little girls. Have fun with them, joke around, tease them etc. This says to them that you're confident etc and it creates good feelings for them.


Keep reading the site and eventually everything will make sense.

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No no, I don't think of myself as low value. I just know that this guy actually knows what he's doing with women while I don't really know all that well. But I'm not gonna let that stop me. If I get with her than great, if not then whatever, life goes on.

The rest of your advice seems simple but effective. Definitely solid.

I'm surprised that no one has anything to say other than slaog. Guess my post was too long to read, people are less likely to read it.

Responses on this thread will not be as valuable as just reading the Bible all the way through. Seriously, everything else is just bullsh1tting about problems--its like sports radio talk, except about women.

Ice882 said:

Responses on this thread will not be as valuable as just reading the Bible all the way through. Seriously, everything else is just bullsh1tting about problems--its like sports radio talk, except about women.

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I already read it before. But maybe I'll take another look at it before tomorrow night.

Where are you from? Small town? New York? Etc..... You seem like yuo have your sh!t together, but are just failing at attracting girls. It's been said a million times, but it's a numbers game. teh more you go after, the more likely you are to get one/some. I have a feeling that your desperation is showing to girls you meet and that's a turn-off. Fisrt off, get the idea that since you're 25 and a virgin you need to have sex right away out of your head. If you can go out 2 days a week, that's enough time to talk to at least a few girls, if you don't succeed with them, it's good practice nonetheless. Go out, try and talk to some girls, learn from your mistakes, and realize what works for you.

holy sh..are you serious? 25 and not yet laid? hey man the way you gotta approach girls is having TOTAL CONFIDENCE in yourself. You have to act like every girl you go up to, you already know (like you just talked to them the night before). It would be easier to develop this if you already have one that you are fvkin on the side while you are out sarging.

Scion said:

Been lurking here for a year or so. Was introduced by a friend of a friend. I'm turning 25 in a few weeks and I what I'm doing is obviously not working. So I'm gonna abandon what I'm doing and will start over with your advice guys.

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Glad to have you aboard.

Scion said:

Now here's where I'll list my weaknesses. I can flirt fairly well, though I definitely have room to improve (with ****y & funny, negs, etc). I still have a bit of approach anxiety, but I can usually work up the courage and do it.

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If that's true than you're already ahead of ALOT of guys. So you can walk up and say hi, but you're just not sure what to do next? Remember to use your environment or something different you noticed about her. If you notice her shopping at the mall, ask her how the shopping's coming along for her. At a coffee shop, tell you want to try something new and you want to see what she recommends. Use OPEN ENDED questions, not things she can just answer with a 'yes or no'.

As far as negs go, those are situational. You need to take something she says or the way she looks, turn it around, and tease her about it.

Scion said:

I can usually get a girl's number when I ask (but I think that may be because girls give out their number to everyone nowadays).

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You're right there, sometimes they give out their number just because they feel bad to let you down. But this should not be the way that you think. You shoul never assume the worst! Always assume that she is interested. This helps your mindset immensely! If you think that she's interested, that would improve your confidence, right? If it turns out that she's not. Then what did you lose? You didn't have her to begin with. But you left with experience.

Scion said:

I know my biggest issue lies in not turning those numbers into dates (I've had only 1 actual date in my life). And I know I have an issue accepting rejection, usually I'll try and contact the girl and ask her out again after she rejects me and I know I should just move on. I'm working on it, it's slowly getting better. And I rely on texting way too much, I find myself always asking girls out over text. I'm not sure why, maybe it's because I think they'll respond more positively. Or maybe it's because everytime I call a girl she doesn't answer, or gives me a lame "I'll see" response when I ask.

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NEVER ask over a text. ALWAYS push yourself out of your comfort zone. I bet the real reason you ask over a text is because you feel more comfort and if you are rejected it won't feel as awkward as it would talking live on the phone. YOU NEED TO TAKE RISKS. You can't go skydiving unless you can work up the courage to take the jump.

So when you get the number, do you talk to the girl at all? Or just ask if she wants to go out the next time you talk to her? You need to step out of your own comfort zone, but your goal is to get the girl to feel as comfortable as possible. To do this you need to call her and actually have conversations.

Scion said:

I know nothing about what to do after I get the date, and have very little experience with anything sexual. So far the furthest I got was with 1 girl, made out with her, played with her tits and got a 10 sec ******* (she was afraid of getting caught because we were in her car at the time). After that I screwed it up by a combination of pushing her to have sex (kept inviting her back to my house before I developed comfort) and being too eager to hang out.

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Well at least you know what you did wrong here, being too eager to hang out, and didn't let her feel comfortable with you. COMFORT is key with most women. You really need to give her a fun vibe, get her to laugh, and the tension eases.

Scion said:

My best friend though is actually amazing with girls, he's always with these hot girls. But he doesn't live near me. He does try giving me simple advice, right now his thing is using Plenty of Fish to get girls (and it's working for him, he's sleeping with different girls off there every week). I tried it too because it worked so well for him but I've had no results at it, most of the girls on there don't even respond to my messages (not sure if it's because I'm not doing it right or if it's because the girls in his area are different).

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Don't use the internet while you are LEARNING to improve your social life with girls. It will only hold you back. Once again, you are staying in your comfort zone, behind a computer screen. You need to get out there, and get face to face with a beautiful woman.

Scion said:

So I don't know what else I can write. I've tried to be as detailed as possible. I am going to a party tomorrow where a girl I like is gonna be (she just got dumped by her bf) and I'll write a field report afterwards. The only issue with that girl is that a guy I'm working with is obviously going after her (and he's going after a few other girls I know too). I don't know if I can compete with him however, though I will give it my damndest (this that a word?).

So sorry about the length. Any advice would be appreciated.

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Look forward to the field report, give us a play by play in depth detail of how it goes, so we can help break it down for you and tell you where it went right (Staying positive)

First of all, let me tell you this: You are not alone out there by being mid-20s and still fairly inexperienced. Last night I took a 23 year old girl home, who turned out to be totally inexperienced with kissing, let alone sex. I think she made out once with a guy before me, and he flaked on her after he discovered she was a virgin. The girl is shy, and it shows she is pretty inexperienced with kissing. Took me quite a while to get her into a place where she was comfortable to slow down with the kissing.

Next up: You sound like a confident guy. Your AA won't get better. Even I have AA, and I say I'm starting to get the hang of it. But there is a different with uncontrollable AA and knowing your AA is there and just kick it in the nuts and go for the girls.

As said before: Force yourself outside your comfort zone. I've discovered that I *love* the attention from all the girls, collect their phonenumber and then somehow lose interest in the girl and never call them and after 3 weeks get rid of their number. You might have the same issue: You love the attention but prefer to stay in your perfectly comfortable comfort zone once you collected their number. Push yourself to go over that boundary, call them, make it awkward to get a no. Once you had that happen 3 times in a row, you don't care about it anymore and know how to handle it smoothly. It's all a matter of calibration and learning how to do it.

And yes, it's a numbers game. Everyone has a large amount of girls that either reject them or get rejected. Not everyone is your type and that still means quite some girls drop out. Just play it correctly, and you always have poon running around or within reach. But it all trickles down to one thing: PLAY THE GAME. Without playing it and without calibration, you won't get anywhere.

I don't know if anyone ever read the bodybuilding forums back in 2003, but a guy named saucehead put together the most comprehensive guide I know of for this kinda ****. This was how I went from being pretty bad with women to where I am now. This is a link to part of it, so think of it as an alternative to the bible ( which I have yet to read!)

link: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?referrerid=112033&t=118919481

You obviously have confidence issues, but those are fixable. I am proof of that since I used to suffer from confidence issues in my early 20s. The way to turn it around is to follow any true passions you have. For me it is a sport, so naturally I come out of it looking good and feeling good , but it can be anything that gives you a natural high. Once you feel good about yourself, you won't see women as out of your league. In fact, you'll start to see women and people for who they are - folks who take ****s in the morning and are just trying to get by. No one is better than anyone else...its all an illusion. When you start seeing the world as it is, you stop putting women above you and can talk to them normally.

Saucehead preached going out in the field and pimping it. Thats the only way to get better. Round up the boys and go out on the town and chat it up with some fine ladies. Approaching is always sort of nerve racking, but the rejection thing becomes easier and easier to deal with. Most people know what to do, but don't do it. Separate yourself from the keyboard jockeys and DO SOME WORK.

Scion said:

No no, I don't think of myself as low value. I just know that this guy actually knows what he's doing with women while I don't really know all that well. But I'm not gonna let that stop me. If I get with her than great, if not then whatever, life goes on.

The rest of your advice seems simple but effective. Definitely solid.

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When it comes to women you do. You talked about your approach anxiety etc. The rest of your life seems to be going well so congrats on that.


What that guy is doing is he has a high value mindset. Because of that thats the way he behaves and thats what attracts women. The want confident men who take charge not guys who get approach anxiety. Thats why I advised to treat them like little girls.

Dannyrt34 said:

Don't use the internet while you are LEARNING to improve your social life with girls. It will only hold you back. Once again, you are staying in your comfort zone, behind a computer screen. You need to get out there, and get face to face with a beautiful woman.

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I know alot of people advise this but I disagree. Its about balance. He's using the internet now to learn what he's doing wrong and if he wasn't learning it could take 2 or 3 decades to figure things out for himself if at all. Go out and come back with any questions you have and read, read, read.

Drewski: I'm from a medium size city (not as big as New York but plenty big enough). I'm not really worried that I haven't lost my virginity, the reason I posted this is because what I've been trying on my own isn't working so I decided to start over and hopefully you guys can help me do it right. Losing my virginity will just be a nice side effect of that.

Dannyrt34: You pretty much got my issues with approaching. Sometimes I fall back on the lame boring "Hey, how are you?". I'm working on it currently. Same thing for negs, the results improve a little bit the more I practice. But maybe the reason I'm not turning numbers into dates is because I'm relying on texting too much. I think your right about the reason I text so much. And to answer your question: I usually chat with these girls after getting their number before I ask them out. The only exception to this is if I interact with them on a regular basis, then I may just call and straight up ask them out. Hopefully I'll write the field report late tonight but it depends on when I get back, and how drunk I am, lol.

synergy1: I don't have confidence issues, at least anymore. I did in high school, but that was mainly about my looks. After high school though my confidence shot up, but I still didn't have any experience with girls. I've been working on that for 5 years (4 on my own with ppl's bad advice, and 1 year reading different things on this forum). And don't worry, I'll be pimping it tonight.

slaog: Nah, definitely don't think of myself as low value when it comes to women. When I wrote the original post it took me more than an hour to think about where I need to improve with women. I wrote it so you guys know where I stand currently. If I thought of myself as truely low value then I would be thinking things like "I'm not good enough for a woman" or "I don't understand why she likes me". I view myself as high value (or at least medium-high value), confident, but not insanely ****y (I'm a little ****y). As for the comment made by Dannyrt34 that you quoted, I think he was talking about online dating, not using this site. He advises to go out and meet women, not sit behind a computer screen and try and do it. And I agree with him 100%, I only tried it because my friend was insisting I do. I tried it, didn't like it, and he's cool with that (although he still thinks it's the most time effective way of getting multiple girls).

Scion said:

slaog: Nah, definitely don't think of myself as low value when it comes to women. When I wrote the original post it took me more than an hour to think about where I need to improve with women. I wrote it so you guys know where I stand currently. If I thought of myself as truely low value then I would be thinking things like "I'm not good enough for a woman" or "I don't understand why she likes me". I view myself as high value (or at least medium-high value), confident, but not insanely ****y (I'm a little ****y).

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Its not what you say its how you act. We judge people by there actions and you're an AFC. If you're saying you believe that you're high value then you would act like that and you wouldn't be in the situation you're in at the moment.


Consciously you might know you're good enough but that doesn't mean you subconsciously believe that. You wouldn't be thinking about the other guy getting the girls either. You said you don't know what to say too but thats also a sign of putting them on pedestals.


I hear what you're saying about not knowing how to get girls but if you were high value you wouldn't have this problem because it'd come naturally. Thats why some men are naturals and others are not.


I was the same a few years ago. I knew I was good enough for women but still put them on pedestals and blamed it on lots of other things. Really it comes down to mindset. Have that and everything else follows. You're having woman trouble despite having everything in order with your life so it has to be mindset.


AFC's can be ****y/funny too but they're still AFC's. They can be confident in certain situations but they're still AFC's.


When at the party, behave like you own the place and remember to treat women like little girls and have positive body language. Lets us know how you go.

As for the comment made by Dannyrt34 that you quoted, I think he was talking about online dating, not using this site. He advises to go out and meet women, not sit behind a computer screen and try and do it. And I agree with him 100%, I only tried it because my friend was insisting I do. I tried it, didn't like it, and he's cool with that (although he still thinks it's the most time effective way of getting multiple girls).

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You could always use it as practise too or ask your friend what he does. Going out meeting girls is still the best way.