The secret of a player...

In your destination of becoming good with women you’ve encountered a lot of different advice from many different “Gurus” or “Pick-Up Artists”. I’m familiar with many of them, and I’m sure you are as well. The problem here, is that while I think their intentions are good, their advice is very misleading and takes guys down the wrong path.

The absolute biggest mistake I see is the premise of “You have to knock her off her pedestal.” My question to you would be – why is she on a pedestal to begin with? When you go in with the mindset she’s already on one it’s going to be an uphill battle in so many different ways, because you’re going to be questioning everything you do afterward. A player is not concerned with that.

Many “PUAs” teach you it’s all about confidence and that you should go in for the kill right away. So you think of a little C&F game plan and say something witty to her. Great. How is that going to help you when this girl knows nothing about you except for the fact you’re trying to pick her up? It creates an awkward situation and awkwardness is the biggest enemy of a player. If you’re not nervous, you should be. You’ve just thrown all your cards on the table and came off overly eager to a girl you don’t even know. You don’t know who her friends are, where she works, what her interests are, if she drinks/doesn’t drink, etc. and vise versa. It doesn’t matter what you think, a girl has zero emotional attachment to this situation, and that’s why the flake rate is so high. A girl can’t feel oneitis for a guy she doesn’t know. Keep that in mind.

A player on the other hand, would have befriended her and acted completely normal as if she were anybody else to scope out the situation better. This also gives her the chance to see that you’re a cool guy while you find out what her interests are, who she hangs out with, what she likes to do for fun, etc. You achieve this by getting in her social circle and befriend those people in the process. It’s half the battle. That’s what your goal should be. Not only are you getting in hers, but you’re expanding yours. Don’t be the guy on the outside looking in who tries to get with her right off the bat without having access to that information. You know how AW’s have a lot of guy friends? It works the same way for players. They have a lot of girl friends. Pretty soon you’re going to be friends with a lot of attractive women and this is when your confidence is going to shine through. You’re going to have the opportunity to make girls jealous by hanging out with other attractive females, and this is where feelings and attachment start to come into the picture.

I shake my head in despair at bootcamps and C&F – this is not going to give you what you need to be successful with women. Again, this is the “outside looking in” mentality. Where you need to be is right in the thick of things with her and the people she hangs out with. You should be friends with her friends. You should all hang out at the same places. Repeat this process many times over with girls you’re interested in and you’re going to begin to realize how much of an advantage you have over every other guy that goes down the other road. You’re “in”.

The best part is that there’s no pressure. You don’t have to think of anything clever or witty to say to her, or worry about a number close. Focus on becoming this girls friend and getting in her social circle. Don’t worry about falling in the “friend zone”. It’s crap. If you’re a cool guy who isn’t trying to prove himself, you’ve got nothing to worry about and everything to gain.

I know you’re probably not accustomed to this kind of advice, but I invite you to try it. You might scare yourself and turn into a player.

wachovia

Isn't a big part of the idea of C&F to show that you DON'T put her on a pedestal? Really, all I take from C&F is that it's good to tease girls in a fun way once in awhile.

I agree with a lot of what you say. Most people probably find their relationships from the social circles that they're in, so the wider your social circle, the better your odds to find someone dateable that might return your interest.
But you have to keep in mind a lot of these techniques are meant for different situations, like cold approaches or picking up a girl in a club. You need to know what it is you're trying to accomplish. But I agree that if you can charm your way into a girl's social circle, it's going to give you better odds of success than just asking for a number.

Its me, the woman here that is awaiting to get banned or the hammer being brought down on me is what I have been threatened with, but anyway, I mostly read here now but I have to step into this one. Wachovia what you described is the kind of men women just love. Good for you. We love men like you in our social circles, wish we had more.

BEST... POST... EVER...

This is a rare gem of a post because it encapsulates what I have been saying for months now on sosuave. I generally get ignored a lot on my posts because they are against the mainstream of the site, but it works.

1.) Get some female friends
2.) Get to know her and all her to value herself to you.
3.) Get to know her friends because her five best friends will tell you a lot about her.

You know how AW’s have a lot of guy friends? It works the same way for players. They have a lot of girl friends. Pretty soon you’re going to be friends with a lot of attractive women and this is when your confidence is going to shine through. You’re going to have the opportunity to make girls jealous by hanging out with other attractive females, and this is where feelings and attachment start to come into the picture.

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I have long wondered this idea if a DJ is really just the male equivalent of an Attention Wh0re. After months and years of reflections, I have come to the conclusion that we are the male equivalent of an Attention Wh0re.

Only one small tiny problem that I have with this post it does not encapsulate which will lead to problems down the road is that you do not talk about sexualizing ones self (in other words, make a fvcken move).

If you do not sexualize ones self you will not be looked at as a sexual object. Instead you will be looked completely platonically. Being looked at as just that "friend" is a bad thing, but being looked at as a friend that is attractive is far different and far better.

Recently, I got out of a relationship of two years and hooked up with a lot of my ex-gf's female friends. This is where I am coming from because I have seen it work beautifully

But I believe that the OP should add something about sexulizing oneself otherwise face the wrath of not being looked at as a sexual candidate.

- comic_relief

Well you can make friends with girls if you want, but you can't just become the guy with all the girl friends and no sex. Eventually you'll have to cross the line and make some moves that will piss the other girls off, because of their feminist ****blocking tendencies. Besides that, I generally can't stand being friends with females. I'd rather have male compadres.

I believe my entire post described how to sexualize yourself. I can't tell you word-for-word what to say in your interactions with girls that’s going to create attraction, because it’s not any one thing that’s going to do it, no matter what any guru says. The reason for getting in a girls “circle” is so you can display the characteristics she’s attracted to without ever having to “prove” it by words, while utilizing her friends in becoming YOUR friends to create an emotional attachment.

How does this work? You meet some girl, become her friend by being a cool guy and someone she wants to hang out with. So you guys get to know each other and now her group is yours, and vice versa. Now you guys all go out to the bar and are drinking and have a good time. Maybe you’re acting like a goofball, or you’re the life of the party, or you’re the confident one, whatever the case may be. The point is you’ve now established a connection with this girl. She KNOWS you’re cool, she WANTS to hang out with you more. This is when you give her the gift of missing you. Hang out with her and the group many times in a row, then BOOM! Stop contact for a while. Hang out with a different group from a different girl you’ve repeated this process with. The first girl KNOWS what she’s missing, and she knows it’s not there anymore (keep in mind you guys are all still friends). So you’re hanging out with this other group for a while, maybe a few weeks, then all of a sudden you reappear to the first girl. This is the right way of creating sexual tension.

Now, if you were to just walk up to a girl and go for the number close within 10 minutes of meeting her, you wouldn’t have been able to establish any kind of connection with her like in the example I provided. She knows she’s missing a good time, she knows she’s missing laughs, she knows she’s missing a cool guy. A girl doesn’t know she’s missing any of this when you go for her number right away. It’s like “Here it is, I’m going for you. Do you like me or not?” No matter how clever you were, you’re forcing a girl to formulate an opinion off you very quickly, and there’s no sexual tension in that. Not to mention it’s needy. This is why guys experience such a high flake rate, even if they get the number. How many times on this forum have we read “Well, she seemed interested. What did I do wrong?” Then an influx of replies requesting the exact words that were said during the conversation to analyze and critique what you did wrong. My favorite is when someone comes in and says “Dude, you wrecked your chances with her because you didn’t kino enough.” Rofl, yeah that’s why. It wasn’t necessarily anything you did – you just went about the situation the wrong way. The girl doesn’t know you man, you guys have never crossed paths before. She doesn’t care. When she flakes on you, she’s out partying with her friends, getting drunk, tailgating at baseball games, sexing guys in her social circle, etc. She’s with HER circle, and you’re not in it.

I can’t hold your hand and tell you how to escalate in every situation. I’m giving you the insight and social conditioning of someone who is good with women. What you do with that knowledge is up to you.

Hey Wachovia, I'm moving soon to a part of town with a lot of college kids. I'm twenty-five and work full-time, but I want to make friends with people in the neighborhood and build a social circle. I guess that I want to live part of a life I never had (college). My goal is to be invited to some parties, go out drinking with hot college girls, etc. The good thing is I look like a college kid even though I'm not. People won't feel weird thinking I'm so old guy.

How do I go about meeting guys and girls, and creating friendships?

This needs to be sticky'd. Excellent information wachovia.

I like the way you think.

This is good advice and is more "real world" advice too. This is very similar to Juggler Method. If you haven't read his material its very similar and he stays away from all the tricks and lines.

Interesting concept, and I'm interested in applying it. However I can't really think of any concrete, non-awkward ways I could inject myself into a social circle. Usually how things go with my group is that I am the one to bring new people in...

I suppose the way to go about it would to befriend someone, male or female, and become more than acquaintances. After that, hang out with them with their social circle? Or eat lunch with them or something.

Any advice/examples on getting into social circles, starting from scratch?

I’ll give you an example kray.

A place I used to work at. Fairly large, many different departments. I didn’t really know many people except for those in my immediate department, and most of them were guys. There was 3 different shifts and people started at all different times throughout the day. There was a couple of cute girls, one HB 9 in particular I had my eye on, but never really got a chance to interact with, except in the break room. There would usually be around 30 people in there at any given time getting food, eating, talking, whatever. Instead of sitting down next to her and trying to get her number right away like most guys here would, I observed the people she interacted with. People she might be friends with OUTSIDE of work. I used these people (figuratively) to establish a connection with her. I talked to these people - sometimes around her - and befriended them. They could see I was a cool guy. She could also see it from the way I was talking to her friends. Then a few times we sat next to each other, I wasn’t throwing goofy lines or techniques at her, we just had some small talk about work and the weather like normal people, a few smiles were exchanged in the process. I wasn’t forcing anything, but I was making my presence known to her and her friends. I ran into her a few more times and we talked a little more.

So over the course of a couple weeks I got to know her friends better, and we became pretty comfortable around each other. Small talk turned into regular conversation. Then all of a sudden my friends starting talking to these people, and pretty soon we all became friends. One of the people she associated with starting talking about a local bar a bunch of co-workers go to on a regular basis, and asked if I wanted to go. Me and a couple of friends went to the bar, and guess who was there? The girl I was interested in from earlier. Which I figured she would because I associated with the people SHE associated with. She remembered me from WORK, and the conversations we had there. Again, by this time everyone is pretty comfortable around each other and having a good time. There’s no awkwardness, we all know each other, and we all had a blast. We played beer pong, did shots, people were laughing and enjoying the night. This chick KNOWS I’m a cool guy, and she’s comfortable around me.

After that we talked more and more at work and there was no pressure, none. So I said to her “What’s your number”, and she gave it to me. We started dating and the rest was history.

Do you see what happened here? I talked to her at work, I talked to her outside of work. I befriended her friends and they befriended mine. She saw what a cool guy I was in different situations and that I wasn’t just some random Joe. This is how you create rapport.

I could have never established any kind of value like that had I of just ran up to her like a horny guy trying to get her number. I entered her social circle and she came into mine.

Most importantly, you’ve created a social network which you can use to your advantage in dealing with girls in other situations.

This is the mentality you want to have when dealing with women.

The problem with this is, people will start talking behind your back, and fvcking you at every turn. I have the majority support from all of the guys I work with. They just Respect me, like a soldier would respect his buddy alongside, but in the real world of vastly different people from vastly different backgrounds, quirks, and beliefs, a good 70% Will Not like you, become jealous of you, seek to bring you down. My YEARS of reputation among my comrades means nothing to a bunch of yuppies, or office workers, etc etc.

Respect is lacking in 70% of the world, Especially among young people. Young people Respect No One.

There's a certain level of respect that adult people command. Many of today's "adults" are still lost youths, with No discipline to Work Hard.

Many women, certainly don't respect or hold with gravity, the measure of a Man, who's done things, who's got both feet solidly planted upon the ground, and would just as soon, throw You to the dogs.

There's some vicious, no-good muther fvckers out there, who would become jealous/envious and tear you down without your even knowing it. And this means, spreading lies about you. And lies are believed like wildfire, and what can you do to defend yourself? Nothing. You just, move on.

Your dating example is one that goes through a length of time. Game is for taking strange girls and getting them attracted to you. If you have a regular social circle, of course you're going to hook up within it. Its not a reliable system though.

If your gonna give advice, I want some examples of same night lays, and multiple plates spinning. From what you've wrote, you gradually hooked up with a girl you met through your circle. Thats great and all, but not helping anyone get girls.

Building and maintaining a social circle is obvious. You dont need to tell anyone this. You will get girls from there eventually. Any AFC can do that. This place is to help us pickup any girl we see walking down the street, or sitting on a bench, or having a drink, or dancing or whatever.

You might as well just tell us to 'be ourselves.'

Building and maintaining a social circle is obvious.

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If it's so obvious why aren't guys here involved with one? Why are they trying to pull girls they don't know who are outside their social circle? Do they not encounter any cute girls in their everyday life? Do they not communicate with people they work with, or go to school with?? What are they doing?

They're saying "Hi" to a million strangers, again people that are outside their social circle. Where are the people they're interacting with on an everyday basis and why are they neglecting the opportunity to talk to them??

You dont need to tell anyone this.

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Apparently I do.

This place is to help us pickup any girl we see walking down the street, or sitting on a bench, or having a drink, or dancing or whatever.

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Really? I thought this was a site to improve your success with women. Since when did it become relegated to walking up to random girls preceded by following a bootcamp?

The mentality around here is so twisted it's sad.

This is great advice. But like I always say, Do what works for you

for most guys, they just want sex, and they want to get it quickly. There's an easy way, and there's a right way. Most want the easy way though

If guys disagree then maybe they've found something else that works. I on the other hand have add greater long lasting success when a is actually cool with me and I meet her friends

Sure, it take time, but even gaming a chick and taking her out takes time.

I however find nothing wrong with approaching strangers, because a stranger is just a stranger until you meet them and sometimes I prefer to cold approach rather than just work within a social group

wachovia said:

If it's so obvious why aren't guys here involved with one? Why are they trying to pull girls they don't know who are outside their social circle? Do they not encounter any cute girls in their everyday life? Do they not communicate with people they work with, or go to school with?? What are they doing?

They're saying "Hi" to a million strangers, again people that are outside their social circle. Where are the people they're interacting with on an everyday basis and why are they neglecting the opportunity to talk to them??



Apparently I do.



Really? I thought this was a site to improve your success with women. Since when did it become relegated to walking up to random girls preceded by following a bootcamp?

The mentality around here is so twisted it's sad.

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Like I said, I want to know your stats if you are giving advice. If you got this all figured out, how often do f-close strange girls? How often do you see a random hot chick, and go introduce yourself and get some kind of close from it? WE NEED TO KNOW.

How come EVERYONE who gets laid a lot goes for the cold approach? You're basically saying to not worry about the cold approach, and only work in your social circle. Im not disputing the fact that its easier to game within your circle, but to have success with women, you need to be able to pull strangers AS WELL. And its really scary to approach strangers, so bootcamps give people the opportunity to baby step their way to conquer the fear of the cold approach.

The WHOLE POINT of this is to be able to get the women we WANT, not just the ones we know, or the ones who like us. You're completely missing the point here.

Give advice about building your social circle all you want, but dont go against cold approaches. It sounds to me like your rationalizing your own fear of approaching, rather than admitting, and facing it.

Sometimes we are in situations where we are alone, without our social circle, and we need to be comfortable talking to strangers. What do you do if you're out of town, by yourself, and want to get laid?

Lets put it this way: Has anyone here done a bootcamp, or taken steps to alleviate fear of the cold approach and regretted it?

Has ANYONE here ever regretted approaching a stranger?

Here's what I don't understand about cold approaches:
How do you know if the girl is married, or has a boyfriend? Do you look for a ring on her finger before you approach? And if the girl says she has a boyfriend, then you just think "next"? Because I'm thinking most women you approach will at least have a boyfriend.

So for those of you who are successful at this, what kind of success rate do you have? What percentage of women that you approach do you actually end up going out with?
And also, do you try to get some IOI before approaching, or do you just go in totally cold?

Poonani Maker said:

The problem with this is, people will start talking behind your back, and fvcking you at every turn. I have the majority support from all of the guys I work with. They just Respect me, like a soldier would respect his buddy alongside, but in the real world of vastly different people from vastly different backgrounds, quirks, and beliefs, a good 70% Will Not like you, become jealous of you, seek to bring you down. My YEARS of reputation among my comrades means nothing to a bunch of yuppies, or office workers, etc etc.

Respect is lacking in 70% of the world, Especially among young people. Young people Respect No One.

There's a certain level of respect that adult people command. Many of today's "adults" are still lost youths, with No discipline to Work Hard.

Many women, certainly don't respect or hold with gravity, the measure of a Man, who's done things, who's got both feet solidly planted upon the ground, and would just as soon, throw You to the dogs.

There's some vicious, no-good muther fvckers out there, who would become jealous/envious and tear you down without your even knowing it. And this means, spreading lies about you. And lies are believed like wildfire, and what can you do to defend yourself? Nothing. You just, move on.

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Exactly wachovia seems uterly clueless of the game as it applies to men. What he/she basically said was be the "COOL guy", be the guy everyone likes and you'll get sex. It's no revelation that women travel in herds and packs and select the most popular guy in the pack. But the suggestion to pick up out of a social circle is explaining a fait comple or whatever the term is. If you have the attraction qualities to succceed in a cut throat social group you will do as well or better with the cold approach. If you are the attrtactive guy that can succeed in the social circle, you can just cut out all that BS and just cold approach, attract, then fvck the girls youwant. I'm having a hard time believing wachovia isn't a female and therefore her advice on how to pick up chicks is worthless.

There is credit to his social circle argument, though in my case, I prefer to be the Dark Horse on the fringe of a social circle. I'll run into one guy I know in a circle, and I watch the women whisper to each other, "Who is he?" I consider that the easy way to score, never am I hanging out with the same people every weekend, I do my best work alone.

C & F has its value........its been proven time and time again. It also has its downside......takes time to master, few know how to calibrate for each individual female, does nothing to build rappart & trust, etc

Bootcamps are cool as you get to socialize with other people wanting to perfect their game.

NOT EVERYONE IS BORN A NATURAL..............so thats why "GAME" was created to give us a weapon.

NOT EVERY METHOD IS UNIVERSAL EFFECTIVE-some guys do well online, others durring the day, some excell in clubs, etc, etc.

I say if a dude gets the digits, gets a number, kiss closes, etc........then he is golden NO MATTER which method he utilized.

We all gotta start somewhere and progression is a learning tool..........which each new skill set we begin to gain appreciation for various methods.

I used to laugh at the hip hop thug life culture........til I saw hot women that literally would do anything to get with these types.

Theres is soooooooooo much details to learn, its a way of life.........INSTEAD OF DISSING other methods that deviate from your own, you may want to try to understand them, and even see if anything useful you can extract.

PLAYERS AND SOCIAL ARTISTS differ greatly..............

STICKY POINT-whatever you aspire to be........make it your own and strive to be the best...........player, mack daddy, pimp, hustler, pu artist, social artist, natural, etc.