Accepting Rejection

Either directly or indirectly, I talk a lot about rejection on SS. Usually this is due to rejection, and the fear of it, being the root cause of so very many mental schemas, behaviors, rationales, etc. for guys. My thread Buffers outlines many of these rationales or conventions used to deaden the effect of rejection, but it's rejection and how one accepts it that makes for a healthy or unhealthy response to it.

Recently I've been considering the principle of rejection and I think the, now proverbial, Pook had it right - Rejection is Better than Regret. Any member with a postcount over a few hundred here have read this line in any number of posts. If you haven't go search 15 Lessons by Pook. However, for all the wisdom in that simple truth, applying it, learning from rejections and accepting rejection is what primarily trips men up.

I use men exclusively in this context because, as a Man, based on gender alone, you will experience rejection far more than any woman. Let me clarify that, you SHOULD experience rejection more than any woman. In sports, in career, in education, in personal relations, and with the opposite sex, you will statistically experience more rejection than a woman. That understanding isn't intended to wave the male power banner, or make Men the champions of virtue. Neither is it to presume women don't experience rejection; it is a simple observance of fact that rejection is an integral aspect of being male.

So, rejection is preferable to regret, we get that. What we don't get is how to accept and deal with that rejection. I'm not going to type away here and pretend that I have it figured out yet, however I can tell you how men, boys, AFCs, Symps, and even PUAs will refuse to accept and/or deal with that rejection.Go look at the Buffers thread, that's a good start, but Buffers are how men prevent rejection not how they deal with it once they're experiencing it. But just as men (and women) employ rationales and conventions to prevent or blunt a potential rejection, so to have they developed coping strategies, rationales and techniques that afford them the least amount of discomfort when they have been rejected - or in the case of women, when they are delivering that rejection.

Revenge
I mention this in particular because it's easily the most common, and potentially the most damaging reaction men have with rejection. This can be from enacting something petty and annoying to the actual murder of the rejecting woman. This is the "how can I get back at her" response, and while it may seem satisfying to 'teach her a lesson' trust that this lesson will never be taught by revenge, no matter how justified or deserving she is.

"There's not a lot of money in revenge" - Inigo Montoya

Indifference speaks volumes. The very consideration of revenge is a waste of your time, a waste of your effort, that would be better spent learning and bettering yourself from that rejection. I can personally relate a story of a young man who was just released from prison recently. He killed the boyfriend who his 'soulmate' replaced him with when he was 16 by stabbing him 32 times. That was his revenge. If he'd been 2 years older he would've been put to death or served a life sentence. You may not be that extreme in pursuing a course of revenge, but the consequences are similar. For so long as you consider revenge, no matter how petty, you'll still be attached to the emotions of that rejection. Accept the rejection, move on, rejection is better than regret - literally in this case.


Men aren't being prepared, aren't being raised to be Men. We constantly belabor this on SS, to the point that we make it a matter of personal pride and duty to instruct our fellow men less fortunate to realize it. Dealing with rejection is the lynchpin to this. When I read posts from DJs I'd otherwise consider enlightened (to the Matrix or what have you) contemplate how best to enact their 'revenge' upon a woman who refused his approach, I wonder if they are as enlightened as I gave them credit.

In facing rejection, you have no choice but to accept it. How you'll do so is a matter of your character. It's important to cultivate an almost third-person approach to accepting rejection. For a lot of people, particularly those unaccustomed or new to deep personal rejection this is a tough order. We get emotion invested and that's never conducive to make good decisions. We're particularly susceptible when we're adolescents and young adults.

Ahh the controversial revenge is finally touched upon. Through the ages revenge has played an important role in the formation of civil society. Be it through the justice system teaching criminals lessons with the hope of reform and deterring future crimes, and also civilly for holding those acountable for the wrongs they have done onto others.

You are negligent by driving drunk and run through a traffic light and strike my car, I sue you (or your insurance company). You pay. Justice is served. If I am injured or not, I feel some sense of relief that justice has been served in some, way, shape, or form.

However, over the centuries the legal system has been formed in such a way as to not recognize "heart-balm" torts, or matters of the heart (other than that which is related to marriage - which in some countries can be quite severe actually). What is the reasoning for this? Have our founding fathers learned something about life and the world so as not to recognize such claims and yearning for justice?

I believe the answer to that question is quite complicated. It may include the fact that the mere recognition of such claims would cause an unrealistic burden on the "system" itself. After all, with any legal claim, civil or criminal, comes a burden of proof; and as we know that can get very sticky when tryin to dissect the unfoldings of a personal, private, and romantic relationship.

As Rollo referred to indifference... revenge is fluid and can take many shapes. As dissallusioned and wronged people may feel at times, we must remember that we live in a society not only with expectations but also guidelines to enforce them. Many would argue the therapeutic nature of revenge. It is an ancient phenomenon that would not exist in and of itself it there were not a strong argument to the validity of the preceding argument. As with "indifference" as Rollo mentioned, some would say the best form of revenge is massive success. If that entails finding a way to be as happy as you can be after having been "rejected" and also finding someone who offers you more than your rejector, to the point where you don't even care anymore (indifference) that they rejected you; then haven't you achieved the least damaging, most desirable, and satisfying revenge?

This is more an essay on accepting rejection than enacting revenge. I use revenge here as the most common way guys deal with rejection, but there are plenty more. Withdrawal, qualification (or the LJBF suck up), and compensation strategies are others. And there is always suicide, which is a perceived form of revenge on some level I suppose.

Also, remember, rejection isn't limited to just inter-gender instances. In fact that's almost a more interesting aspect; your reaction to being rejected for a potential job will be far more measured than if you were rejected for intimacy with a woman. One reason we go to such great lengths to buffer ourselves against rejection is the fear of having to experience it, but often the fear of it is more debilitating than the actual experience.

Recompense for injury or loss is not at all "revenge". Revenge is not about seeking an equitable award for damage sustained. Lawsuits to seek payment for damages are proscribed by sets of laws and formalities that society abides to, revenge, by contrast, is one person doing whatever they wish against others even if it's illegal.

Revenge is the venting outlet for angry emotions generated by angry thoughts. Endorphins that stilumate the "pleasure centers" of the brain are fired off when people fantasize revenge scenarios. It makes them feel better. In a very real way, it's like taking a drug to boost one's mood. But some lack self control and act on their emotions and physically commit acts of revenge. Now it's a danger.

But the satisfaction of revenge is temporary and short, as more angry thoughts generate more angry emotions that then need letting yet again andf again. This is why people can stay embroiled in fights for years.

There are many hazards to acting on these emotions. Firstly, it usually involves destruction of property of injuring of lives. Revenge plots can backfire on the person acting on them. That person could accidently find themselves the victim of their own plot, or also injure, maim or kill unintended, innocent people.

And, if it's an illegal act, the perp can find himself in prison, while his intended targets may have gotten away safe and are still together, laughing at his sorry ass.

Mature men take the higher road.

Great topic, and this one’s easy to understand from a psychological point of view. Rejection is based on experience. Everyone remembers that first time – that dance in Junior High when you decided to take a shot to slow dance with that girl in your class that you have been dreaming about since you were 5 years old… you get shot down, your buddies laugh at you, and it takes months to get over it.

Then as life progresses you repeat the process over and over, and gain experience in the rejection/success relationship. The value of the statement “if you want something, just ask” increases. The more you ask, the more likely you’ll get what you want. There’s another philosophy as well – “Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want.” As you increase your number of rejections you increase your experience in coping with rejection and you begin to work out creative and ingenious ways to enhance your success. You learn to tune out the noise, too. After a while you ignore your buddies laughing at you.

In addition, you begin to recognize when and where you have the highest degree of success, and begin to reap the rewards of success. This factors in to “be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.” i.e. the bipolar nut job.

Revenge is primarily a maturity issue. Sometimes revenge in the physical sense to protect lives and property is warranted, (i.e. 9/11) however revenge in the romantic vein is exacted out of immaturity, plain and simple.

On the subject of revenge, I was thinking of something earlier today.

I say that a true Alpha male is the guy who can give his friend a high five after his friend fukks his ex fiancee.

Think about that for a minute.

Any man who is so weak and emotionally attached to ONE woman is indeed a beta male.

It's kind of like the guy who wants to drive across town to beat the sh!t out of the guy who is fukking his girl. If this guy is your friend, he deserves a beatdown. If you aren't "bro's", the only one you need to be looking at is your girl, and the only WAY you should be looking at her is her backside as she's headed out the door after you gave her the boot.

Then when you find out a friend of yours met her out at a bar six months after you broke up, poured Jagerbombs down her throat all night and took her home and came all over her face, you should pat him on the back for getting a piece of what was never yours in the first place.

Remember...you NEVER own the pu$$y. You're just leasing it from an (often) unscrupulous owner.

samspade said:

They say the best revenge is living well. Perhaps it's not even revenge, per se, but you will at least feel better than any form of revenge exacted on your perceived "enemy."

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A lot of guys don't understand that they have no "power" over a disinterested woman, even if (especially if) she once WAS interested.

Indeed, the best "revenge" is living well. I look at some of these chicks who dissed me in one form of another, and I smile to myself with the knowledge that one day these chicks will see me walking down the street with a gorgeous young woman on my arm, or they will hear from friends how I just sold a business for multi-millions, or that I managed to get down to 8% bodyfat and am in the best shape of my life, or WHATEVER.

I just know that there will be more than one of these women who are unhappily married who are sitting there kicking themselves for acting on silly emotions that caused them to lose their shot with me.

I believe this is why it is so important to fill your life with many varying good things: Romance and career, certainly, but also family, hobbies, travel, scholarly pursuits, watching football, etc., etc. Because you may at any time lose one of those things, but with a full, well-balanced life, the void will be much smaller and easier to fill.

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Well said.

And the motivation behind that desire for revenge is the hope that somehow he can get her to regret rejecting him and realize that she was an idiot for throwing away such a wonderful opportunity.... He wants to keep his ego intact (and understandably) the problem with that mindset is that women rarely ever regret or even look back after rejecting someone.

We all just need to accept and realize that we're all just instinctual animals out for ourselves without exception, and blaming women for these kinds of things is as useless as blaming a dog for eating out of the garbage can.

Indeed, the best "revenge" is living well. I look at some of these chicks who dissed me in one form of another, and I smile to myself with the knowledge that one day these chicks will see me walking down the street with a gorgeous young woman on my arm, or they will hear from friends how I just sold a business for multi-millions, or that I managed to get down to 8% bodyfat and am in the best shape of my life, or WHATEVER.

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I think what's effective about "living well" as a kind of revenge, is not so much about if we become cut or increase our assets or have a babe on our arms, as it about the ex, looking at us now, sees us living an interesting, happy life style, doing cool things, enjoying new experiences, having fun, in effect, living "well". Then she pines that she's missed out on being part of it because she dumped us too soon or in haste, PLUS the little mental twist of the knife to her that we didn't need her to become successful, that we did better without her, in fact, perhaps her even thinking she may have been the one preventing our success while with us. That's the alleged revenge. You know how girls take on their man's life aspects like some new jacket to wear from boyfriend to boyfriend, and desire to be where the most fun is. The missing out on what turned out to be a shiny object is what gets to them more then anything, I think.

On the topic of rejection...

I try not to see a woman's non interest as rejection, per se. To be truly rejected, you really have to be a known entity, upon which the rejection is made. Just being turned down from a few seconds of approach has more to do with the other person then it does with you, since they don't really know you. The worst it ever got with me was when I approached a gal at a dance a couple of years ago and she rolled her eyes up and turned and walked away. I saw that as her being rude and immature, and even though I didn't appreciate her actions much, I didn't take it personally, because she didn't know me. But then I also think of it as her weeding herself out.

I find the best thing (that works for me) to do is to not have pick up as a goal. Just kind of say something over your shoulder in passing, like an aside almost, and see if a conversation ensues or not. Last girl I approached in RL sneezed, two guys said "god bless you", I said "I hope you're not contagious" and she started explaining to me why she thought she sneezed and we walked off together to another corner. And if she says nothing, then I keep walking.

I think part of the zing of rejection has to do with the importance we place in our lives on getting a woman to like us. If we're secure and HAPPY with ourselves, our accomplishments and abilities and quality of life, there can't be a stranger with a vagina at some party, club, classroom or bookstore, that robs us of that by her declining to engage with us the way we'd like.

I'd ask if perhaps we're confusing the "fear of rejection" with "approach anxiety"? Maybe it's "Better to Approach then Regret"?

STR8UP said:

Indeed, the best "revenge" is living well. I look at some of these chicks who dissed me in one form of another, and I smile to myself with the knowledge that one day these chicks will see me walking down the street with a gorgeous young woman on my arm, or they will hear from friends how I just sold a business for multi-millions, or that I managed to get down to 8% bodyfat and am in the best shape of my life, or WHATEVER.

I just know that there will be more than one of these women who are unhappily married who are sitting there kicking themselves for acting on silly emotions that caused them to lose their shot with me.

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...I think this is a very typical attitude. However, it still hints at a lack of true indifference. While you continue to "recollect being dissed in one form or another", they are living their lives and not giving you a single thought. Why should they - they have completely moved on. They have reached true indifference. Whereas, in a rather subtle way, you still appear to have a degree of revenge on your mind. Plus, if you do encounter them you may get an emotional rise but we all know those emotions are often short lived, fleeting and rather meaningless.

Maybe the best revenge is to become truly indifferent towards past relationships - where you no longer think about them or how things ended or what they will think when they see a new or different you. Ironically, that is no longer revenge - it is moving forward with your life leaving behind (permanently) all those things and persons which do not compliment your life.

It is amazing how paralyzing rejection can be for a guy. Who here can't name at least one friend or co-worker or family member who's fear of rejection is so deep that they've all but shut out interactions with women other than in friendships or familial.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but fear of rejection seems very tightly coupled the mental/emotional investment into the woman/task/job and how much value we place on it.

Let's say a HS jock can get any girl he wants and on a whim he asks out a HB6 and she declines his offer. Will he be crushed? No way. First of all, he had little or no time into her. Secondly, he never placed that much value on her (ie she was always in his frame due to his confidence).

Now let's look at the other end of the spectrum. A guy who's never dated and is now 28yrs old and working. There's a HB8 nearby and she's smiled and said hi to him a few times. Instantly, he's got one-itis. Of course there's noone-itis for the HB6 who's always coming up to him because he does not desire her and he's got those "high standards" (yet another buffer). So, in just a matter of a few days or weeks he's built her up so much in his mind (fantasy -> dwelling -> obesession). He doesn't realize he has elevated her to such a level (pedestal) that he wouldn't be able to say HI without giving her a bad vibe. Finally, he approaches. She senses something weird and LJBF's or says no. He's crushed. The rejection (is perceived) to hurt even more because he's so invested and so out of his own frame. Unless that guy unplugs from the Matrix he'll probably not approach another woman for years (if ever).

I'd ask if perhaps we're confusing the "fear of rejection" with "approach anxiety"?

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...what about the guy who manages to talk to the HB9 on occasion (ie as friends=buffer) but never musters up the courage to ask her out out of fear that she will decline. Clearly he dared to interact with her. But his fear of being rejected (hurt) trumped his biological drive.

Maybe it's Rejection Anxiety?

I also think there are guys out there who fear "yes" just as much as no. If she says yes (after placing her on a pedestal and entering her frame) he fears he won't be good enough or wealthy enough or experienced enough, etc. Some guys just don't dare ask because they don't think they are good enough. Under the hood, it's probably a function of how much he's fantasized about her and now he'd have to face reality - he'd have to be a real person in a real setting with a real woman. Anxiety to be sure.

Often you'll hear rejection lumped under 'Avoidance'. But I think that is another term to gloss over a deeper underlying fear/pain/anxiety-issue so as to not brand the victim in a perceive negative manner.

Sinistar said:

...I think this is a very typical attitude. However, it still hints at a lack of true indifference. While you continue to "recollect being dissed in one form or another", they are living their lives and not giving you a single thought. Why should they - they have completely moved on. They have reached true indifference. Whereas, in a rather subtle way, you still appear to have a degree of revenge on your mind. Plus, if you do encounter them you may get an emotional rise but we all know those emotions are often short lived, fleeting and rather meaningless.

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Exactly, you can live as well as you can but it's unlikely you're anything but a distant unimportant memory in her mind.

With women EVERYTHING comes down to value.

There is a difference between ruminating over some chick that screwed her classmate 10 years ago while you were dating and carrying with you the thought that YOU were the one who dodged the bullet and SHOULD SHE HAPPEN to get wind of your increased value, it will probably make her at least second guess the way she handled things with you.

If you are actively pursuing revenge as a goal you lost the game. But there is nothing wrong with taking something away from the interaction that stays in the back of your mind which serves to elevate your own self worth.

It's not even about one particular woman or particular women....it's about YOU knowing that you are going on to better yourself and that everyone who decided to cash in their chips with you in the past can kiss your lily white ass (if it's white, hehe). It's about KNOWING that YOUR value was and is much greater than they ever estimated.

This goes equally in business as well. There are a small handful of people who prematurely cashed their chips in with me. Either out of greed, addiction issues, incompetence and indifference to the fact, (or any combination or these) these people decided that x sum of money was more valuable to them than having my alliance. I don't sit around seething over the people who wronged me, but I get a smug satisfaction every time the thought crosses my mind that I am indeed headed toward greatness, while they will be stuck in a cycle of chasing the quick buck that never ends up panning out. In other words, they will always be losers, and no matter how far they knocked me down I will never be at their level.

And if you think about it, will you EVER be 100% indifferent to people who have wronged you? That's a noble pursuit, but realistically a long term relationship or business partnership or friendship has a pretty big effect on your psyche. I don't think that any of us have truly 100% let go of EVERYTHING that transpired in these types of relationships. It might not be on your mind all of the time, but chances are memories will remain for the rest of your life, regardless of what you are doing or who you are with.

Last night, for example, I was at a pub, getting my drink on. (rough day @ office) ...it's a pub I don't usually go to, except to watch football games.

The bartender is this older woman, with a SMOKIN' body. I mean, it's like whoa.
Anyway, I don't usually card, but she was borderline. We have an understanding.. I'm there to have a beer, watch games, that's it.
Manager of the place walks over to her, who is standing in front of me, and goes "...isn't he cute?" for which she didn't reply, nor showed any interests either, which to me was exactly the answer I was looking for, cuz I liked that place. Had she said 'yes' I would have finished my beers, and left.

You see, I wasn't there to feed my ego, I already know I'm da sh*t. If a woman REALLY was interested, she would show me. I never have to search for it.

I've dated models, ex-models, a tennis circuit player, the woman next door, "best friends", sisters, etc... what I trying to say is, I'm gonna get mine, regardless. The real question is, will she?

As soon as you are two days or even two hours old you experience "rejection." You cry, and mommy doesn't pick you up as quickly as she did before. Because our brains evolved an efficient but often times innacurate labeling of "cause and effect" relationship between events, we assume that because mommy didn't pick us up, she is "rejecting" us. This gets programmed deep into our brains from day one.

In reality, she may be busy making the bottle, or running from wherever she was, or even taking a sh!t.

Later in life, everytime we get "rejected" we make the mistaken cause/effect assumption that it is because of "us." Rejection will only hurt if you put the 'right' assumptions into it.

The difficulty and importance in "knowing thyself" was thought so relevent by the greeks that they inscribed it over the oracle at Delphi.

If 'knowing thyself' is so difficult, how can another person, organization, entity know you well enough to reject you? There could be a thousand reasons why the answer you got wasn't the answer you wanted, so why bother assuming ones that don't support you? Nothing you assume will likely be true anyways.

The cool thing about being a rational human being is you get to give whatever fukking meaning you want to any interaction.

There is no high court of meaning. There is no gods judging you based on your interpretation of events. There is no secret internet watchgroup tallying points for 'correct' meanings and 'incorrect' meanings.

If some girl 'rejects' you, you can assume that it's your loss, or you can assume that it's her loss.

It really is up to you.

Whats intersting as well it goes in hand with woman always appearing as the victim when they are responsible for countless suicides.........heartless , Kanye's song should be the official anthem for this site lol

This is a good topic. I believe men can handle revenge well. After a bar room fight it is not unusual for the two guys becoming best friends - ie the pecking order has been established. With woman - especially ex wives, she won't be satisfied until you are lying destitude in the gutter and licking her feet.

Unprez said:

Whats intersting as well it goes in hand with woman always appearing as the victim when they are responsible for countless suicides.........heartless , Kanye's song should be the official anthem for this site lol

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As much as this seems to be a joke it does have it's truth. In movies, stories and in real life when a girl kills herself over a man he is more often than not portrayed as the personification of psychopathy and narcissism, whereas when the roles are reversed a great deal of emphasis is placed on the suicidal rejected man being portrayed as mentally weak and unable to roll with lifes punches or pull himself together.

Rollo Tomassi said:

Either directly or indirectly, I talk a lot about rejection on SS. Usually this is due to rejection, and the fear of it, being the root cause of so very many mental schemas, behaviors, rationales, etc. for guys. My thread Buffers outlines many of these rationales or conventions used to deaden the effect of rejection, but it's rejection and how one accepts it that makes for a healthy or unhealthy response to it.

Recently I've been considering the principle of rejection and I think the, now proverbial, Pook had it right - Rejection is Better than Regret. Any member with a postcount over a few hundred here have read this line in any number of posts. If you haven't go search 15 Lessons by Pook. However, for all the wisdom in that simple truth, applying it, learning from rejections and accepting rejection is what primarily trips men up.

I use men exclusively in this context because, as a Man, based on gender alone, you will experience rejection far more than any woman. Let me clarify that, you SHOULD experience rejection more than any woman. In sports, in career, in education, in personal relations, and with the opposite sex, you will statistically experience more rejection than a woman. That understanding isn't intended to wave the male power banner, or make Men the champions of virtue. Neither is it to presume women don't experience rejection; it is a simple observance of fact that rejection is an integral aspect of being male.

So, rejection is preferable to regret, we get that. What we don't get is how to accept and deal with that rejection. I'm not going to type away here and pretend that I have it figured out yet, however I can tell you how men, boys, AFCs, Symps, and even PUAs will refuse to accept and/or deal with that rejection.Go look at the Buffers thread, that's a good start, but Buffers are how men prevent rejection not how they deal with it once they're experiencing it. But just as men (and women) employ rationales and conventions to prevent or blunt a potential rejection, so to have they developed coping strategies, rationales and techniques that afford them the least amount of discomfort when they have been rejected - or in the case of women, when they are delivering that rejection.

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I think what's most important is your rejection to success ratio. Experiencing more rejection is not that helpful. What is important is experiencing a reasonable success/rejection ratio. Also it's important to compare your rejection/success ratio to other men not women. I don't really see how buffers are only avoiding rejection and the chance for success but are not also a coping mechanism. I think they could be both.

Revenge
I mention this in particular because it's easily the most common, and potentially the most damaging reaction men have with rejection. This can be from enacting something petty and annoying to the actual murder of the rejecting woman. This is the "how can I get back at her" response, and while it may seem satisfying to 'teach her a lesson' trust that this lesson will never be taught by revenge, no matter how justified or deserving she is.

"There's not a lot of money in revenge" - Inigo Montoya

Indifference speaks volumes. The very consideration of revenge is a waste of your time, a waste of your effort, that would be better spent learning and bettering yourself from that rejection. I can personally relate a story of a young man who was just released from prison recently. He killed the boyfriend who his 'soulmate' replaced him with when he was 16 by stabbing him 32 times. That was his revenge. If he'd been 2 years older he would've been put to death or served a life sentence. You may not be that extreme in pursuing a course of revenge, but the consequences are similar. For so long as you consider revenge, no matter how petty, you'll still be attached to the emotions of that rejection. Accept the rejection, move on, rejection is better than regret - literally in this case.


Men aren't being prepared, aren't being raised to be Men. We constantly belabor this on SS, to the point that we make it a matter of personal pride and duty to instruct our fellow men less fortunate to realize it. Dealing with rejection is the lynchpin to this. When I read posts from DJs I'd otherwise consider enlightened (to the Matrix or what have you) contemplate how best to enact their 'revenge' upon a woman who refused his approach, I wonder if they are as enlightened as I gave them credit.

In facing rejection, you have no choice but to accept it. How you'll do so is a matter of your character. It's important to cultivate an almost third-person approach to accepting rejection. For a lot of people, particularly those unaccustomed or new to deep personal rejection this is a tough order. We get emotion invested and that's never conducive to make good decisions. We're particularly susceptible when we're adolescents and young adults.

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Well I agree if a woman rejects you there's no call for revenge. But that's the extreme scenario. A woman could not be necessarily rejecting you but exhibiting poor behavior to test boundaries and to try to get an upper hand. Setting your expectations and laws down is not revenge. For men to always act indifferent toward any and all female behavior is giving women carte blanch to do whatever they want without any accountability or real reprecussions. Indifference doesn't always tell a woman the message best. She can rationalize it anyway she wants, maybe even that you are a doormat. Besides how long does it take her to find a new d1ck to swing on and forget all about your indifference?

ketostix said:

For men to always act indifferent toward any and all female behavior is giving women carte blanch to do whatever they want without any accountability or real reprecussions. Indifference doesn't always tell a woman the message best. She can rationalize it anyway she wants, maybe even that you are a doormat. Besides how long does it take her to find a new d1ck to swing on and forget all about your indifference?

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Of course, indifference isn't ALWAYS the best course of action.

But the part i think you are missing when you try to tip the scale in the other direction is the fact that indifference will have a different effect on a woman depending upon your value to her.

You see, as a man, the only REAL leverage you have against a woman is your value and being willing and able to take away the ability of her to benefit from it.

If you are in a relationship where you still have VALUE, you can use the threat (or implied threat) of removing yourself from her life if she does something wrong and doesn't shape up. But if you have no value to her, threats or scolding means nothing. It means LESS than nothing because all it does is serve to devalue you even more.

So essentially, when a woman rejects you, she is telling you in no uncertain terms that you have no value to her. Hence, no amount of scolding or threats will have any impact.

STR8UP said:

Of course, indifference isn't ALWAYS the best course of action.

But the part i think you are missing when you try to tip the scale in the other direction is the fact that indifference will have a different effect on a woman depending upon your value to her.

You see, as a man, the only REAL leverage you have against a woman is your value and being willing and able to take away the ability of her to benefit from it.

If you are in a relationship where you still have VALUE, you can use the threat (or implied threat) of removing yourself from her life if she does something wrong and doesn't shape up. But if you have no value to her, threats or scolding means nothing. It means LESS than nothing because all it does is serve to devalue you even more.

So essentially, when a woman rejects you, she is telling you in no uncertain terms that you have no value to her. Hence, no amount of scolding or threats will have any impact.

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I thought we already been through this a few times . Of course context matters whether to be indifferent or not and how much it matters. Of course if a woman rejects you that is her prerogative and there's nothing you should or need to say to her.

If you have no value and your opinion doesn't matter to her, then indifference doesn't matter to her either and is a mute point. Like I said before, even if a girl is rejecting you or doesn't particularly value you as a mate, she still values your opinion of her. Or should I say she wants to be liked or at least viewed favorably even by the man she rejects. Your disapproval of her is as valid as indifference. It's not about scolding her, threats or revenge. It's about making it clear that you don't accept or approve of anything and everything.

I think we might be talking about apples and oranges, but when some says "always be indifferent" without context because you have no value, then your indifference has no value either. you can and should be indifferent about HER but that doesn't meaning being always indifferent about her actions and everything she does is the only way.

Anyway Str8, I'm not saying indifference isn't effective or it is invalid. I think in most case it is the route to go. I use it a lot. I think there are a lot of good reason why indifference is effective and you gave some of them, but the reasoning that you have no value I don't think is a good reason why indifference would be effective and being proactive wouldn't, neither works when you have no value. The truth is you usually have some value and either works when done right.

My problem is that you have guys saying "always be indifferent..it's always best" and I don't think this is the case, it's not that simple and indifference isn't a panacea and can work against you at times. Although I would say generally indifference is a safer bet than being proactive, but not always. I use both effectively and sometimes ineffectively. It's like telling someone to always use a screwdriver when a hammer would be best, figuratively speaking. Again, I want to clarify that you should be indifferent about her but that doesn't mean you should always be indifferent about her actions and behavior .

I think guys who keep a woman under their thumb for the long haul might act indifferent about her, but they are very demanding of her behavior and sort of train her like a monkey. I don't see how you could accomplish this through acting indifferent all the time about her behavior. It would take a naturally well behaved woman who's really into you and that's a tall order.

I would say though that if all men always brought the hammer down when necessary then that would be best. The women would have no where or no one else to go to with their sh!t behavior. It's because there's always plenty of other guys that will accept anything women do, we all have to deal with it and can't bring the hammer down as effectively. Men are not being and can't be as dominant as they use to be.