Routine

I originally posted this on a different site, but would like your opinions as well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So for the last few months I have seen minimal gains in terms of size, but with half decent gains in my lifts on pretty much everything except the bench press (which is really starting to piss me off, fvcking grow tits, grow!).

I was on a 3 day split for about the last 6 months, pretty general:

Day1: Chest/Tris, Day 2: Backs/Bis and Day 3: Legs/Core.

I think it's time for a change, my body is too used to this routine. I've decided on a two day split:

Day 1: Legs, Core. Day 2: Chest/Tris (Push exercises)/Backs/Bis (pull).

Also, I've been hearing that working out larger portions of the body results in a better endocrine response than splitting them up, which I am not 100% sure of. Anyone care to share thoughts? Ruthless? Golden?

I should have gotten all this cleared up while I was still at the Institute.

Anyway, here's my routine:

I am limited to exercising in the school gym, and only during lunch break which is 45 mins. But I now have frees after lunch break monday, and on both sides of lunch thurs, so I've decided those will be my workout days since I'm going to need a little more time, I'm aiming for volume as to stimulate ideal hypertrophy.

Monday: Legs/Core

Squats 5x12
Deadlifts 3x5
Lunges 5x12
Hamstring Curl 3x12
Calf Raises 5x12

Weighted Crunches
Crunches+Rope pulls
Hover

Thursday: Upper Body

Bench Press 5x12
Bent Over Row 5x10
Incline DB Press 5x12
Seated Row 5x12
Flat Bench Flies: 5x12
Lat Pull Down 5x12
Weighted Dips 5x12
1 Arm DB Row 5x12

Skull Crushers 3x12
Preacher Curl 5x12
Tricep Push Down 3x12
Hammer Curl 3x12

Yeah. That's a lot. Wooo soreness here I come!



Am thinking to do some light cardio on tues or wed, depending on how my abs are feeling. If I'm too sore to be doing any fun cardio. e.g. boxing, then I probably won't hehe.

Last time I did skin folds (2-3 weeks ago), my BF% was around 12-13%. Wouldn't mind bringing it down to around 10%, but since I am a massive ecto, and am trying to bulk that probably won't happen till I've finished bulking.

Arrrghhh stupid plateau-happy piece of sh*t body, farrk you!

Thoughts?

I probably wouldn't do any of the last 4 exercises,

and include close grip bench press.

I would prob get rid of seated row and replace the lat pulldown with a wide grip chin up.

I have a 2/day split but I only do 4 exercises per day, I have gone up 30lbs on my bench in the last 2 months or so, its quality not quantity.

stop worrying about endocrine responses and choose one of the routines in where to start. why are you doing high volume when you only have 45 mins to work out?

volume doesn't stimulate ideal hypertrophy unless you're already at an advanced muscular level.

flat bench press is not the best option for chest hypertrophy. I'd do inclines instead

To Rho: I had similar routines to this, and found that the next day only my big muscles were sore from the compound movements, my triceps/biceps weren't even really in pain. So I decided to add some isolation exercises to see how I'll fee.

Quantity for me is huge, I've been doing awesome, intense, heavy lifts that leave my sore for a whole week. I barely recover in time to hit the same exercises up again the following week, but gain minimal if that. I was doing 4-5 exercises every workout, 3 sets. Just didn't happen for me.

Warboss: Nah I guess I didn't explain it properly. NORMALLY I would have 45mins but on mondays I don't have a lesson after lunch break, so +80mins in the gym, and on thursdays I don't have lessons on either side to lunch, so +160mins in the gym. Not that I'll be training in all that time, but will give me time to eat and what not.

I tried the two day splits in the Getting Started thread, and they did yield some good results, but I plateaued and switched routines.

I've been doing Incline DBs, shouldn't that produce the same results? Or do you think I should swap it for Incline Bench?

Soreness of small muscle groups is irrelevant, they only grow if your body as a whole grows. So if the big muscle groups are being worked enough the smaller ones don't need to be pounded into the dirt to grow.

High volume only elicits ideal hypertrophy if you are already large and muscular, and sometimes not even then.

What are your stats right now? The routines in where to start should get you up to AT LEAST a 200-250 bench, 300-350 squat and 400-450 deadlift in a year with 25-40lbs of muscle added. If you 'plateau'd (I hate that term, it's so buzzword and therefore overused) before achieving these then your diet sucked, pure and simple. If it's growth you're after, you have no business changing up the routines until you're hitting those numbers and perhaps not even then. Those routines (or similar ones) will bring up your strength and bodyweight much faster than the one you posted provided the food is coming in.

Incline DBs are a great exercise but I'd stick with the barbell version until you're hitting the numbers above. Use the dbs as an assistance move by all means though

Warboss Alex said:

Soreness of small muscle groups is irrelevant, they only grow if your body as a whole grows. So if the big muscle groups are being worked enough the smaller ones don't need to be pounded into the dirt to grow.

High volume only elicits ideal hypertrophy if you are already large and muscular, and sometimes not even then.

What are your stats right now? The routines in where to start should get you up to AT LEAST a 200-250 bench, 300-350 squat and 400-450 deadlift in a year with 25-40lbs of muscle added. If you 'plateau'd (I hate that term, it's so buzzword and therefore overused) before achieving these then your diet sucked, pure and simple. If it's growth you're after, you have no business changing up the routines until you're hitting those numbers and perhaps not even then. Those routines (or similar ones) will bring up your strength and bodyweight much faster than the one you posted provided the food is coming in.

Incline DBs are a great exercise but I'd stick with the barbell version until you're hitting the numbers above. Use the dbs as an assistance move by all means though

Click to expand...

Hmm, I live in Aus, so we use kgs but at the moment bench around 90kgs, squat 100ish, deadlift 120ish.

Dead and squat need more work.

Yeah my diet was spot on for the first 6-8 months where I saw quite good gains, I quit my job and therefore less money=less food bought.

I am still eating the same amount as before, just not eating MORE.

Hm, can you outline the difference between the routine I posted, and the ones in the Getting Started thread. Why are they better? Also, why doesn't protein intake from carbs count towards protein total?

we've been through this loads of times before but...

in simple terms the body responds to the load. volume is finite, intensity is finite, frequency is finite but the load is infinite (at least until you run out of plates). The load is what's going to continually make the body grow. The biggest bodybuilders are also the strongest - Ronnie Coleman started out in powerlifting, Dorian Yates used lower volume strength-based routines and they dominated the scene size-wise for a long while. And the top strongmen and powerlifters are also massively muscular guys - who are CONTINUALLY trying to increase their numbers and totals (i.e. the load they lift).

Higher volume routines get you so far, but with them you hit a wall fairly soon because you're doing too much work to be able to recover and increase your strength on them. Sure volume routines work fast (the fastest way to gain 10-15lbs is to load creatine, taurine and possibly arginine and do a volume based routine) but they give you the 'fluff' hypertrophy which is just fluid in the muscle. it's fine for aesthetic purposes but for substantial growth its application is limited. you can't do 5 x 10 on everything and get to a 500lb squat and deadlift in 2 years time which is going to make you bigger and thicker than doing 5 x 10 with 200lbs.

he's a post by DC comparing the 'bodybuilder' with the 'powerlifter' (both having dieted down for a bbing show):

http://musclemayhem.com/forums/showpost.php?p=788926&postcount=32

and read the post too. DC is just echoing what all the biggest lifters have learned through experience. constant progression, constantly trying to get the numbers up is what builds contractile protein (the dense, thick muscle not the aesthetic 'swole' stuff) and what will make you bigger and bigger. with volume routines you just can't get the numbers up regularly. I mean you do a 5 x 10 bench press with say 135lbs, how long will it take you to make that 155lbs? and then 205lbs and then 305lbs? much longer than if you'd done couple of sets of five with that weight. and it's using that 305lbs on your bench which is going to give you a massively thick upper body because the body will always respond to the load. then you can do your 305lbs for 5 x 10 and THAT will work for the ideal hypertrophy you speak of, because you're handling a HEAVY ENOUGH load. but to get to the point of handling that load, you need to bulldoze your way there through food and heavy weights.

more examples of strength-based trainers:
Dave Tate http://user653.websitewizard.com/images/Dave_Tate_after_10fat.png
Matt Kroczaleski and friends
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l179/Billypress/6-7-08MatKstraining018.jpg
Andy Fielder (guy from DC's post above)
http://musclemayhem.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53356&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1203709549
Jesse Marunde (RIP)
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/382/jesse2zr6.jpg
Pudz & Kevin Nee
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/303100889_d097ca1d35.jpg?v=0
Dave Henry (trains DC style)
http://toopumped.net/henryo08/pages/_H4X3145.htm
Dave Gulledge
https://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/1/0/1046887.1146807195966.jan2.jpg
Trey Brewer
http://imagesforum.doctissimo.fr/mesimages/4364394/keyra4.jpg

Course you might say "I don't wanna look like those guys, they're freaks" - fair enough. Maybe you just wanna gain 30-40lbs and be lean. Training their way will get you there faster than using volume routines. Once you're at the weight you wanna be, feel free to do higher volume stuff. Until then, concentrate on getting the numbers up.

Obviously this training won't work unless the food is coming in. If you need to get a job to pay for food, do so, or use cheaper food sources (tuna, eggs, peanut butter..). Without the right amount of protein and calories you won't gain anything. And as you get bigger, you need to eat progressively more food to support the growth of a progressively larger body.

I count the protein in carb foods. Others don't. It just simplifies things to not count it but its aminos still be used for recovery. But it doesn't matter whether you count it or not, what's important is that enough food comes in every day.

Nice post Alex

That second pic brings a tear to my eyes.

You just had to post a pic of Brewer didn't you? He's a superfreak, perhaps in some years up there with Wheeler. His quads are ridiculous, at such a young age too.

Cheers for clearing that up with me. And mass props for the effort you put in that post.

I guess It's my diet then. And yeah, recently got a job that pays ridiculously good dough, so shall be chowing down again real soon.

Cheers man, appreciate it.