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Old 10-31-2008, 08:55 AM   #1
tincanman99
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Are Most Women Pathological Liars & Manipulators?

I have been doing a bit of introspection lately on my own behavior and relationships. Though I can honestly say I am not perfect but I have come to the grand realization that most but not all women are pathological liars, manipulators and game players.

They will literally say and do anything to get their way. And they will not have any hesitation to tell you what they think you need to hear to manipulate you. And when they get caught they are either in denial about it or pretend it never happened. If you call them on their behavior they become indignant that you realized they are manipulating you.

In a nutshell everything goes and its all about them to the detriment of others around them. I think these same people are selfish, self absorbed and self centered. Its all about me, me and more me. They are totally driven by their emotions and engage in stupid and self destructive behavior.

I would not say all women are like this but I think the vast majority are. This does not just happen when you are dating but it happens when you are married to them. I have seen many married men that are in the same situation. Most guys choose to ignore it and just go with the flow instead of making waves.

What do you think?
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:03 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanman99
I have been doing a bit of introspection lately on my own behavior and relationships. Though I can honestly say I am not perfect but I have come to the grand realization that most but not all women are pathological liars, manipulators and game players.

They will literally say and do anything to get their way. And they will not have any hesitation to tell you what they think you need to hear to manipulate you. And when they get caught they are either in denial about it or pretend it never happened. If you call them on their behavior they become indignant that you realized they are manipulating you.

In a nutshell everything goes and its all about them to the detriment of others around them. I think these same people are selfish, self absorbed and self centered. Its all about me, me and more me. They are totally driven by their emotions and engage in stupid and self destructive behavior.

I would not say all women are like this but I think the vast majority are. This does not just happen when you are dating but it happens when you are married to them. I have seen many married men that are in the same situation. Most guys choose to ignore it and just go with the flow instead of making waves.

What do you think?


As far as manipulators and being selfish YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Think about it...women at their core are emotional and insecure.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:18 AM   #3
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanman99
I have been doing a bit of introspection lately on my own behavior and relationships. Though I can honestly say I am not perfect but I have come to the grand realization that most but not all women are pathological liars, manipulators and game players.

They will literally say and do anything to get their way. And they will not have any hesitation to tell you what they think you need to hear to manipulate you. And when they get caught they are either in denial about it or pretend it never happened. If you call them on their behavior they become indignant that you realized they are manipulating you.

In a nutshell everything goes and its all about them to the detriment of others around them. I think these same people are selfish, self absorbed and self centered. Its all about me, me and more me. They are totally driven by their emotions and engage in stupid and self destructive behavior.

I would not say all women are like this but I think the vast majority are. This does not just happen when you are dating but it happens when you are married to them. I have seen many married men that are in the same situation. Most guys choose to ignore it and just go with the flow instead of making waves.

What do you think?
Thank you for describing my ex, which is why she is an ex.

It was after 6 months of serious dating that she began her manipulation and I responded by simply not giving her money. She acted ok with it and would pay for her own food, and stuff like that, but eventually said she wanted a guy who would pay for her all the time and basically accused me of not being a good boyfriend.

She was fake and I fell for it.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:02 AM   #5
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Women can't and shouldn't be judged on the same standard as men -- because they're not men.

What we consider as manipulative is in fact our judgment of actions taken by other men; i.e. if one of our guy friends played games, we'd call them out on it and tell them to fvck off.

But women are another species, from another planet, if you will. Biologically and socially, women are wired to view and respond to the world in a much more emotional, irrational way. So we can't judge them as "manipulative" on a male standard, because as mentioned before, all women are manipulative according to male standards.

Rather, we have to examine women according to standards set for women. We must ask: Is this woman abusing her manipulative powers? Is my judgment and life being clouded by her actions?

Take the following examples:

Women can act, whether intentionally or naturally or both, in a way that arouses men to protect them. When not done to excess, we men enjoy being aroused in such a manner. We're hardwired to be manipulated in that way, if you use that term without its pejorative background. We feel good about protecting women, even if no actual protection is necessary in the circumstances.

Women's manipulative and fickle natures can also achieve other positive ends. Take, for example, the illogical defense of mothers for their children. If a child misbehaves and a stranger disciplines the child, won't the mother in all likelihood go bonkers? Even if the child was clearly in the wrong? And the stranger clearly, according to all societal standards, is in the right? But we can sometimes consider this trait a positive manifestation of women's illogical and manipulative nature. After all, don't we want mothers who protect their children no matter what?

So if we move away from a single, unmalleable and inflexible standard that we apply to everyone equally, we should look at the ways of the world and appreciate both sides of the coin.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classy broadside
Women can't and shouldn't be judged on the same standard as men -- because they're not men.

What we consider as manipulative is in fact our judgment of actions taken by other men; i.e. if one of our guy friends played games, we'd call them out on it and tell them to fvck off.

But women are another species, from another planet, if you will. Biologically and socially, women are wired to view and respond to the world in a much more emotional, irrational way. So we can't judge them as "manipulative" on a male standard, because as mentioned before, all women are manipulative according to male standards.

Rather, we have to examine women according to standards set for women. We must ask: Is this woman abusing her manipulative powers? Is my judgment and life being clouded by her actions?

Take the following examples:

Women can act, whether intentionally or naturally or both, in a way that arouses men to protect them. When not done to excess, we men enjoy being aroused in such a manner. We're hardwired to be manipulated in that way, if you use that term without its pejorative background. We feel good about protecting women, even if no actual protection is necessary in the circumstances.

Women's manipulative and fickle natures can also achieve other positive ends. Take, for example, the illogical defense of mothers for their children. If a child misbehaves and a stranger disciplines the child, won't the mother in all likelihood go bonkers? Even if the child was clearly in the wrong? And the stranger clearly, according to all societal standards, is in the right? But we can sometimes consider this trait a positive manifestation of women's illogical and manipulative nature. After all, don't we want mothers who protect their children no matter what?

So if we move away from a single, unmalleable and inflexible standard that we apply to everyone equally, we should look at the ways of the world and appreciate both sides of the coin.

Not buying it. What you are saying is similiar to situational ethics. Its only wrong depending on the situation . Yeah sure and I have a bridge to sell you too .

Women know exactly what they are doing and do it on purpose.
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Old 10-31-2008, 05:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanman99
Not buying it. What you are saying is similiar to situational ethics. Its only wrong depending on the situation . Yeah sure and I have a bridge to sell you too .

Women know exactly what they are doing and do it on purpose.


I agree with you. They know what they are doing...

But I also agree with the theme of the guy above you in the sense that nature made them more inclined to act that way - in comparison with males.
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Old 10-31-2008, 05:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanman99
Not buying it. What you are saying is similiar to situational ethics. Its only wrong depending on the situation . Yeah sure and I have a bridge to sell you too .

Women know exactly what they are doing and do it on purpose.
Actually, I completely agree with Classy_broadside. Women are simply wired differently than men are, and trying to hold them to the same standards that you would a man is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Just ain't gonna happen.

Tincanman99, you've got it absolutely right about HOW women act. But you're still coming at it from a typical masculine frame. If you accept that this is how women act, you then become free to handle it appropriately (not worrying about how she acts, treating her like a dorky little sister, not taking her seriously, etc.) But if you keep thinking that women should somehow be fundamentally different, you're just setting yourself up for a lot of needless frustration.

Me? I've already accepted that this is how women act.
And to tell the truth, I'm loving it.
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Old 10-31-2008, 06:12 PM   #9
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I am not saying they should behave like men but I have recognized them for what they are - women. You just ignore them . Just accept they are messed up.

You said you are loving it, do you mind explaining why?
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Old 10-31-2008, 06:31 PM   #10
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You sound like a woman talking about men.


Meet more women.


Seriously.


What you're saying can be applied to people in general. Maybe you've never mistreated a woman or lied to her. If so, then you probably represent a small minority of men. I'm being neutral here and I'm not going to use myself as an example... but I will say that if you're not happy with the company you keep then it's time to find new company. If you're an honest person and you're looking for an honest, committed partner... well, then you're going to have to look long and hard to find one.
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Old 10-31-2008, 07:36 PM   #11
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Whilst women are not perfect and are far from it in many instances, the reason most if not all of us came to this site is the same. We all deep down desire and cherish them and want to be closer to them though most of us have been burned in the past.

As said above you chose the company you keep and its our job as men to improve ourselves to the point where we have viable options to pursue. I personally went through this phase until I came to realise that while there are some women out there that fit the mould of cheaters/liars most are just looking for a strong, reliant and resilient man, and once they find it they dont let it go easily.

I still, like all of us here have a way to go but I find that with each day I work on myself the less and less I seem to run into these crazy girls and the more happy I am and closer I am to my other goals in life. Complaining about such things will never get you anywhere as it will always be better to go out and improve and get on with the life you wish to live.

Thats my rant for the day anyway
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:51 PM   #12
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All right, I'm just gunna shoot this one down right here. I'm majoring in this area in university, so I have alot to say on this.

First and foremost, there is an underlying belief that people are out to get you, it's called a healthy dose of skepticism. In PUA terms it evolved to help you recognize when people are cheating you. So when you feel that people are out to get you, it usually means they are, so don't ignore it.

Yes, women are emotional, but not so much as you think… and most likely not irrationally either. Because of the social standards they can get away with allot, for example if you see a girl crying on the street by a man who looks angry... who are you more likely to come to the aid of? Women aren't acting irrational here, that women could of just shot that guy, but as people we are HARDWIRED to protect women because they in a tribal sense viewed as less capable of defending themselves. Though, notably not less valuable, as such we try protect the women because we have a belief that the man can protect himself.

That behavior you guys see women taking advantage of is their CULTURAL or EVOLUTIONARY response programmed into women. Women on either a genetically or subconscious level have recognized that they are often more protected by social structures then men are, so when a women acts in a manner you guys view as irrational, she's most likely taking advantage of these norms. In other words boys, you’re being socially out maneuvered.

When women act in an emotional, irrational way… it’s almost like a child throwing a tantrum in a supermarket, if the child is spanked the parents look bad… if not the parents still look bad for not having a disciplined child. The child ultimately wins this interaction. We as men cannot tell a women that her actions are manipulative because it breaks social norms, we must just accept that we are in the wrong and move on… or face large scale social ridicule by our tribe.

Unless you a DJ that is.

Guys, the bottom line is, if women start throwing this **** your way. She wants something, take note of it, look at what she wants and ask yourself. “is this reasonable?” If not, DUMP HER ASS. YOU CANNOT WIN THIS FIGHT THROUGH LOGIC BECAUSE THE WOMAN CAN GET THE SUPPORT OF THE TRIBE.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:22 PM   #13
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Women are way more interesting to talk to and 'deal' with than men. They're so messed up, but not in a crazy serious way. They're just so silly (in a good way) and it's just nice to be a MAN to/for them.
If you want someone who is not womanly in how she behaves and reacts to things, go out with a dude.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanman99
I have been doing a bit of introspection lately on my own behavior and relationships. Though I can honestly say I am not perfect but I have come to the grand realization that most but not all women are pathological liars, manipulators and game players.

They will literally say and do anything to get their way. And they will not have any hesitation to tell you what they think you need to hear to manipulate you. And when they get caught they are either in denial about it or pretend it never happened. If you call them on their behavior they become indignant that you realized they are manipulating you.

In a nutshell everything goes and its all about them to the detriment of others around them. I think these same people are selfish, self absorbed and self centered. Its all about me, me and more me. They are totally driven by their emotions and engage in stupid and self destructive behavior.

I would not say all women are like this but I think the vast majority are. This does not just happen when you are dating but it happens when you are married to them. I have seen many married men that are in the same situation. Most guys choose to ignore it and just go with the flow instead of making waves.

What do you think?

You are being too abstract in your discussion. You cannot generalize if you have been rejected / burned / refused sex on one or more occasions. You have to give specifics and then we may be able to help you.
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Old 11-01-2008, 10:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanman99
Not buying it. What you are saying is similiar to situational ethics. Its only wrong depending on the situation . Yeah sure and I have a bridge to sell you too .

Women know exactly what they are doing and do it on purpose.


I agree with you and your OP. Sure women are different than men, but wrong is wrong. It's just 2 ways to skin a cat. Men could collectively manhandle, intimidate and beat women up to get their way and just claim nature made men physically dominate. Women taking an advantage by lying and manipulating doesn't make it any better. It's just a different means to an end and the end is no better.
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Old 11-01-2008, 11:25 AM   #16
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Women who lie and manipulate do so because their men allow it.

Men need to qualify the women they choose to share in their lives better.

Too many men let their women get away with sh1t from the get go because they got hot asses. Slowly and surely small lies and manipulations turn into big lies and manipulations.

Women are like children, they won't not listen to you if they don't respect you. They also need to know that you aren't going to let them get away with sh1t and they can easily be replaced if they causes sh1t.
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:45 PM   #17
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Tincanman99:
I'm not entirely sure how to explain it. I do know that I've dropped terms like "pathological liars, manipulators and game players" from my vocabulary when dealing with women. (Not a judgement here, just trying to explain my own headspace)

Why don't I use those terms? I'm not entirely sure. Maybe I've just internalized that women are different from men, and that there's no point holding them to masculine concepts.

But since I truly believe that, it frees me to enjoy the time I spend with them, without frustrating myself by trying to hold them to a standard that's completely foreign to them.

She flaked on me? She tried to get me jealous?

Silly girl. Doesn't she know I can play that game better?

Miguel:
Yes, you've got part of it. But you're still not realizing that you need to handle those situations through emotional stimulation, rather than the logical male viewpoint where things mean exactly what they mean.

Bad
Her: I want that thing, why won't you get it for me?
You: That's unreasonable! I'm dumping you!

Also bad:
Her: I want that thing, why won't you get it for me?
You: Because you'll never be happy with that. You'll just keep asking me for more, and not appreciating what I do for you, and I'm tired of it!
(Note: Everything he said here was technically correct, but since he was coming from a male frame of logic and rationality, she didn't process any of it)
Her: But I want that thing!
(See?)

Better
Her: I want that thing, why won't you get it for me?
You: *laugh* Oh, you're such a dork.
Her: No, seriously! Why won't you get that for me?
You: Because I'm awesome like that.
Her: *trying not to laugh* abcd_z! Come onnnnn...
You: Okay, we're done here. *playfully pushes her away*
Her: *giggles and starts chasing*
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:11 AM   #18
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tincanman99: You are absolutely, completely right. It's not just women you're dating either! They can be friends, your girlfriend's friends, friends of friends, daughters, mothers, teachers... I know from my own experience that women do do this.

"They will literally say and do anything to get their way. And they will not have any hesitation to tell you what they think you need to hear to manipulate you."

Yep. When they want something, they will say whatever they need to say, whether true or untrue, to get what they want. They just don't care. It's disgusting, really. Like if a woman wants you to tell her a secret, she'll promise not to tell anyone. NEVER trust a woman with a secret because she will tell everyone.

You know how women invent these little "sh1t tests?" I invented my own that I've been using as long as I can remember. Before I trust anyone with a secret, I tell them a fake secret that I don't really care if it gets out. Women always fail this sh1t test. Most men I've told secrets to have kept them; most women have told them to the world.

Today a friend and I were with two women. We were ready to leave but the women wanted to stay longer and look at more things. Because we all arrived in the same car, we all had to leave at the same time. The women promised that they would be no more than 15 minutes, and my friend promised that in that case he would happily wait for them (rather than go to the car and wait there). Well, my friend kept his promise. Why? Because that's what men (most of them at least) do. They keep their commitments and their word as a matter of principle, in both trivial matters and significant ones. The women ended up taking 35 minutes, and even still my friend kept his promise, even long after they had already broken theirs. Of course if I had called them on their behavior (which I just don't even bother doing anymore), they would have either claimed that they never said that, or they would claim that they had only been gone 15 minutes when it had clearly been longer (I'm guessing they would have gone with the first one).

These are just two examples of what you describe, but I've seen it happen nearly every day in my different interactions with women.

"And when they get caught they are either in denial about it or pretend it never happened. If you call them on their behavior they become indignant that you realized they are manipulating you."

This is so right. I've had so many times when a women tells me a lie, and I tell her that I know it's a lie, and she becomes angry and screams, "How dare you call me a liar!" or puts her finger in my face and goes "I NEVER said that and you know I never said that" (obviously she said it!) or she'll just go "I'm not talking about this" or sometimes even repeat the lie! My goodness!

So yes, you are absolutely right. Those who go with the whole "well, you can't hold them to the same standards as men..." are just trying not to seem sexist. Why not? Why shouldn't they be held to the same standards as men? The fact is that this IS how women behave.

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it was sexist and almost disregarded it, but after reading the post and reflecting back on my own life, I realized just how true it is.
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:55 AM   #19
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@ abcs_z: Lol, good call, I talk to girls usually like the bottom one, so I'm guessing I'm doing it right, but you caught a big problem with my thinking, thanks. I guess I just have a habit of trying to logic out everything, probably it's just a way of insicurity to leak out. Won't happen again.
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