Female DJ or not interested? Next?

We all know that the "ideal" situation with a woman is where her interest is sky high, and everything comes easy.

That's in a perfect world, but as we all know it doesn't always happen that way, and often we find ourselves dealing with women who might not be head over heels for you at first sight.

Maybe I'm getting old or something, but I find that I just don't have a lot of patience for women who don't make it "easy".

Case in point.

I just started seeing this chick. She's a little more self aware than most women. Might have something to do with her psychology degree, but she's not exactly in la-la land like so many women tend to be.

I've known her for about a year, but we just recently started hanging out one-on-one. She was flirtatious in the past, but recently things stepped up a bit when we spent a few evenings together with a group of friends while we were spending time with a mutual friend who was moving out of town.

I ended up getting her number over that weekend, and we have since been out twice.

Now like I said, this chick is much more self aware than most women. She basically stated outright that she isn't "easy", and she enjoys being pursued by a man.

The first time we went out things went great. We went out again last weekend, and somehow ended up hanging out at a restaurant bar for close to 5 hours engrossed in conversation and building great rapport.

So the end of the night comes and I realize it's 1am and they are closing the place down. She has valet parked and her car was the last one so it's sitting right there, and she offers to drive me to my car.

We talked for a few more minutes as she dropped me off. I start to get out of the car, I go for the kiss, and she gives me the cheek.

I know that if a chick is interested, she won't play games. but have you ever ran across one who you are pretty sure is interested, but has that level of awareness that allows her to "play the game" despite the fact that she probably WANTS to "let herself go"?

It's just that I don't get the LJBF vibe from her, yet not even a kiss on the second date? Seems a little extreme for a chick who follows through in every other way as if she is interested, but on the same token as I said she isn't typical in the respect that I think she has a little more control over her emotions, initially anyway. It's like she's following a chick DJ bible or something.....

So I'm debating about putting any more effort into this. One part of me says "Stick it out a little longer, you don't have much to lose" The other part of me says "You don't have time for this. Forget about her".

Thoughts?

Ever since I've subscribed to the rule of T!ttyman I've been a much happier DJ Str8up.

And what his rule basically was is this...

"If you are not up to your nuts in her guts by the third date that qualifies as an automatic next".

So give her one more chance and if there is no passionate makeout session or spontaneous fvck fest or some indicator of strong forward progression toss this one to the curb bro.

Sounds to me like she's looking for more than just a hookup. In other words she's playing hard to get to pull you in. Make sure your intentions are clear to yourself and to her.

Before I dive in head first, is this the woman you were asking for date ideas about?

If she were so self aware she wouldn't be shooting herself in the foot.

Rollo Tomassi said:

Before I dive in head first, is this the woman you were asking for date ideas about?

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Nope. Different girl.

I know what you're gonna say Rollo, and I agree with you on the premise that intimacy isn't a commodity to be negotiated. Where I differ with you on this is in the fact that things are rarely black and white, as you yourself often point out to people.

I remember getting into a similar discussion about the lebanese chick awhile back, but this is a little different. Not all women are going to fall in love with you at first sight, and I have come to realize that there are a few women out there who are a little more intelligent and more in tune to how things work, to the point that it allows them to maintain a distance in the beginning, just like a good DJ would do.

If she WAS super attracted to me would her "rules" go out the window? Probably. But when so many guys here talk about only dealing with high interest women I think it's going too deep into trying to weed out the chaff, since it is unreasonable to expect that every woman you are going to date is going to be smitten by your presence from the time you meet. I have had these kinds of women, of course, but they are rare and by automatically nexting too soon you are going to let a few fall through the cracks. The trick is to be able to effectively read each situation and proceed accordingly.

I'm just at a point in my life where I want to cut to the point. I'm taking time out of a busy schedule just to be able to see these women, so I expect to reach a certain level of intimacy (not necessarily sex) by a certain point or I do feel as if I'm wasting my time.

Legolas and Kontroller both make excellent points. On the one hand it's good to avoid giving too much benefit of the doubt, but on the other hand if she's simply holding back for some predetermined amount of time before she moves forward, I have SOME patience if I think it might be worth my time eventually.

I should also mention that this chick canceled our first date a few hours before saying she wasn't feeling well, but threw out a counteroffer which ended up going through. She also OBVIOUSLY avoids seeming too eager with communication, not responding to texts or voicemails promptly.

Basically, all signs point to her being conscious of her actions and playing hard to get. She wants to be "pursued", just like she says.

Oh yea, and another funny thing with this one. Before we went out the first time we were with our friends but we had our own private convo going, and we were talking about relationships and somehow I got on a hypothetical kind of conversation of "what if" I were interested in her and how it would go down, and she was basically hanging on my every word, filling in the blanks of ideally how it would go down according to her. I thought it was kind of odd initially but now it almost seems like she has a regimented plan for getting involved with someone.

mrRuckus said:

If she were so self aware she wouldn't be shooting herself in the foot.

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I agree with you, and that's what makes me want to walk away and write it off as a lost cause.

I'm probably going to give it one more shot. If I don't see a progression I will forget about her.

It would seem walk away is the best solution.

However, there are women who will hold back initially coming from a position of skepticism on your intentions. These are usually damaged goods or women who have been railroaded and broken in half.

Overt Expression is the key here. Put the cards on the table, and if nothing changes, Walk Away.

Lots of good advice.

I think the middle of the road is the way to go. I'm pretty vigilant when it comes to ensuring that I'm not getting taken for a ride, and so far I don't get that feeling from her. Usually if a chick is lukewarm she won't counteroffer, she'll flake, etc., and although both of us are busy, she has always been quick with a counter and always reliable.

I dunno, like I said maybe it's that I'm getting older and I'm the kind of guy who likes to get down to business, or at least establish a direction.

To be honest with you sex (or lack thereof) isn't even the deal breaker here. I would, however, be a lot more patient if I had some kind of assurance that we were both on the same page, and if you're fukking it's a pretty good indicator, but if you aren't you can't just come out and talk about it in the beginning without destroying the relationship.

I suppose I should mention that this is the "Man Eater" chick I posted about awhile back (go ahead...shoot me). Turns out that she's a completely different person outside of a group. She's got an uber b!tch shield at first, but it looks like it even more of a front than I suspected it is.

Although I doubt there is any serious relationship potential with her, i have to admit that she intrigues me, and now that I'm "in" (you would have to know her to know what I'm talking about) she's actually a lot of fun to hang out with.

She wants to be "pursued", just like she says

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Who cares what she wants? Do things your way and if she doesn't like it then boo hoo for her. You make the frame, no?

mrRuckus said:

Who cares what she wants? Do things your way and if she doesn't like it then boo hoo for her. You make the frame, no?

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Of course, but at the same time, seduction (or whatever you want to call it) is based upon doing what you gotta do to get results, and that sometimes means crafting your gameplan based upon what an individual woman responds to.

I'm willing to play along as long as I can see the possibility of getting somewhere, which is what I am trying to determine. Once you set the hook there's a lot more room to "make the frame".

STR8UP said:

I know what you're gonna say Rollo, and I agree with you on the premise that intimacy isn't a commodity to be negotiated. Where I differ with you on this is in the fact that things are rarely black and white, as you yourself often point out to people.

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Intimacy is ALWAYS negotiated by a woman in the early few dates. (Unless you hook on the first night or get in a drunken ONS). This is the way they have acted for millenia.
Secondly, women's interest level rises SLOWLY - unlike a guy's, whose IL is flipped to the ON postion in a nanosecond.
She has told you that she likes to be pursued (this may be her grab for the frame) and that she is not "easy". So what . Women say a lot of stuff that is belied by their actions.
I heard this same stuff thirty years ago when most women were "traditional".
Back in the day, they turned their cheek at the end of a date - so what ? It means nothing at this stage.
All this means is that you are gonna fvck her on the fifth date rather that the third.
You need to decide if she is worth the extra wait and use this opportunity to "lead " her to where YOU want. Do not be awed by her "psych degree".... it means zip, dude. A psych grad is somewhere near the bottom of the academic food chain, just like elemetary school teachers or social workers. These folk seem to believe that they are a cut above other women BUT the reality is that they are just emotional tumbleweeds like all their sistas.

The point here is that you are hanging out with a woman who wants to hang out with YOU. Get it ?
If she is hot enough to maintain your interest then stay with it until you close the deal..

I've been studying a lot of MM lately, and this seems like she's taking ASD too far. Maybe she's worried about you bailing after you nail her. I think Mystery would suggest subtly demonstrating that you'll stick around either way.

You also might want to instill some fear of loss. Tell her stories about chicks you've waited for that nothing came of, and how you're sick of wasting time like that. Add in that you dont mind waiting a minute as long as you know theres something worth waiting for. Then ask her if she has any hot friends. lol

I've seen this before.

A woman who expresses open attraction to you yet does not follow through physically is usually trying to string you along for a more "meaningful" relationship; kind of counterproductive, but I digress...

For example, of the women who I had dated for more than a few weeks, none of them "put out" on the first date. These women had seen me as a good catch and wanted to keep me interested by building up attraction over time - anticipation is the greatest aphrodisiac to them. Keep in mind, however, that it is also these girls who had tried the hardest to please me while I was in a relationship with them.

HOWEVER...

She wouldn't even kiss you after the second date? That, to me, is an indicator of a feminista control-freak who does not respect your advances for intimacy. She is setting a future up with you where she is the sole initiator of intimacy. This is no good.


I would say give her another date. If it doesn't end with you ejaculating as a result of her physically manipulating your penis, next her.

STR8UP: I've followed your old posts about "Man Eater" and you know she's not worth your time and investment in a dating scenario. She's a complete AW and likes to control her men. While you can see and read all these signs she's giving out, don't let your ego come in between your better judgement and think you can out game her in this battle. Actually, why would you want to even waste your time on a girl like this, she's a fuvk buddy at best and I think deep down you know this too.

I know your very introspective and analytical and you read the situation right 99% of the time, so I'm somewhat stumped as to why your playing along with her at this point in the game.

Lastly, with a normal girl waiting to become intimate isn't always a bad thing. However, even those chicks are down to make out and fool around a bit. This girl is luring you in to her world and know you shouldn't go, but you keep walking forward.




PIMP

If you are having fun with her, stop trying to define it so much.

If you stop trying to initiate intimacy, and she wants it, she will make a move on YOU.

Also, some women are turned off by men who are too forward too soon. Same as some men are turned off by that. It reeks of desperation... believe it or not.

STR8UP said:

I suppose I should mention that this is the "Man Eater" chick I posted about awhile back (go ahead...shoot me). Turns out that she's a completely different person outside of a group. She's got an uber b!tch shield at first, but it looks like it even more of a front than I suspected it is.

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I've dealt with a few like this. It's a red flag for me. I will not pursue a relationship with a girl who has different personalities when she's with me one-on-one and when she's with her friends or in a group situation. I can't trust that type.

^^^ yeah, or sometimes people just judge way too quickly based on silly things. Like "red flags" or their own subjective experiences. It is good to keep an open mind about people you don't know. I believe a common complaint about STR8UP's threads were that he was quick to say how all these women suck. He was judging way too quickly, and way too negatively. I think maybe he is learning something here.

Don't be so quick to react so fast. Or is it the other way around? I am trying to quote Silkk the Shocker, lol...

So? Of course we're gonna give our subjective opinions, and red flags are signs most of us had to pay dearly for with our previous experiences. Keeping an open mind obviously is important, but so is knowing the possibilities of what you're dealing with. It is STR8UP's choice to go with what he wants. Other people can't make any decision for him, but we can tell him what we know from our own experiences, because he made a thread to ask people here about it.

As for this particular red flag I have: iqqi, what do you think of a guy who's super fun & confident & all that while with his group of friends, but an insecure whiny guy when he's one on one with you? Would you get into a relationship with him?

I wouldn't jump into a relationship with anyone, first of all.

Second, if someone is confident with their friends, but insecure around me, I'd think I intimidated them. The first thing I would do is try to find out why. And put them at ease. If a person is secure and confident under normal circumstances, then it is abnormal for them to be insecure, and if the deciding factor was ME, I'd try to figure out why and change it.

But back to STR8UP. He has such a negative view on women, that he immediately charged this chick with the same charge he charges every chick with. And now he is eating his words, he was all wrong about her. I'm just saying, he might be wrong about a lot of things that he has been quick to judge on using his more jaded judgement. This isn't me flaming him, it's a "see what happens" when you take the time to really find out what is going on.

If you expect the worse, you are going to see darker possibilities and waste energy feeling and being negative. If you merely keep an open mind, and some emotional distance, you will have more chances of finding something good, without the risk of getting hurt.