The importance of intimacy and it's relationship with trust.

LovelyLady

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I have been asked to start a conversation on trust and intimacy, as this will be the topic this Sunday in Chatzy.

The beliefs I am sharing are my own and have been formulated by my personal experiences. A book that resonates with my belief and value system regarding true intimacy is The Seven Levels of Intimacy: The Art of Loving and Being Loved by Matthew Kelly I cannot recommend it highly enough.


Various depths of intimacy are experienced within the context of our different relationships: parent/child, employee/employer, neighborly, dear friends, buddys. And then there is that treasured intimacy that is possible to create within the dynamic of romantic partnership.

When we first hear the word "intimacy" the mind often goes immediately to "sex". Yet while sex is an interpersonal activity - it holds no guarantee of genuine intimacy. People can live without sex, but we cannot truly thrive without intimacy. It is something we all crave. Truly intimate relationships are essential to living a full and satisfying life.

To truly reveal who we are to another person - to receive another person's self-revelation fully - that is intimacy. An ongoing journey taken together: one of mutual self-revelation while establishing trust and safety as the process changes over time.

It involves the sharing and vulnerability of the heart, soul, body, and mind. The sharing of our imperfections - and our most perfect selves with another human being.


Sharing our pasts; sharing our individual stories is a holy process - and choosing wisely who is to receive our story is key. To feel safe and know that the "who" we are in our journey is met with compassion and acceptance is imperative to genuine sharing.

Yet even with this innate need for intimacy, we are so often afraid to share who we are - to be truly known: we fear rejection. So we don masks, put up walls, create idealized false personas to present to the world. And in the process we never know true intimacy - because we are not giving our true selves to the people in our lives.

We want to connect - yet we are offering a false self - so no genuine connection is possible. But also, no genuine rejection is risked either - so a false safety is established by the creation of the "masked" self.


So often we justify the presentation of the false self because "other people/men/women can't be trusted" and we point to past experiences that "prove" this.

However, I have found that for my self - the real struggle was won when I realized that it was my own judgement about other people that I had difficulty trusting.

I then had to intimately examine my own story and reflect deeply on when I had betrayed my own self - when I had not remained honest with myself about the inability of intimacy and incompatability of soul-values of those who had "hurt me" and "betrayed my trust". I had to own that the responsibility was within myself, ultimately. And that it was actually my own self - my own judgement of choosing wisely - that I had trouble trusting.


I also find that the fear of the pain of future loss of an intimate partner can keep me from opening up.

And yet, as with so many here, I have experienced devastating loss of a loved one. And I have survived it. I have been made stronger because of it. I learned the truth of who I am; what I am made of - and it adds to my story - it strengthens what I have to offer my partner today.


I preface the following talk of marriage with the explanation that I am speaking of the marriage of the spirit - not simply the legalistic confines of societal marriage that is sold to the masses:

I have thought often of marriage vows "til death do us part" and have recognized it to be processed in several ways: "until the death of the relationship" "until the physical death of the other person".

But it is just recently that I have come to a profound understanding of what that vow means to me in terms of vulnerabilty, trust, and building true intimacy with a man: It is that I am willing to commit to love you so deeply and intimately that I am willing to risk the vulnerabilty of loving you and knowing the truth of who you are, and being loved and known by you with that same depth - for the rest of my days on this earth. And I am committing to that with the full understanding that I risk the depth of pain that will come with the loss of you in my life when death parts us.

To experience intimacy - whether on the level of friendship - or to the most intimate level experienced in genuine romantic partnership - requires the courage to face the pain of loss.



So... Self-knowledge and self-acceptance (which brings about healthy self-esteem) is imperitive to intimacy - you cannot offer your true self to another if you hide behind a false mask.

Trust of your own ability to choose wisely who you share your most intimate self with is also imperitive.

Courage
to risk the loss of the sharing - whether in the natural ending of a relationship that has "run it's course" - or in the profound pain of loss that death or divorce represents - and holding to the self-knowledge that that pain can be survived. And that the self remains in tact - and made better for having had such depth of intimacy with that chosen partner.



Furthermore, I would add that this process of self-revelation can occur within therapeutic settings - or even just when one encounters a loving and open listener that enters our lives at key moments. The gift of being truly seen, truly heard is important.

But the essence of romantic partnerships requires an additional element: the recognition that your chosen partner's individual self resonates with your own inner self to where there is a soul recognition. Followed by a commitment to supporting the other in his/her individual journey to continue to become his/her best, fulfilled individual self.



Because genuine intimacy is so rare an experience for many of us, we must be mindful. To reflect and ask: is it this person's true self that you truly love and are intimate with or are you just moved by the experience of intimacy itself? (kind of a version of "Are you in love with the man/woman - or are you simply in love with how she/he makes you feel?") Integrity in intimacy is key and this question is an important touchstone.

Well, those are some of my thoughts on trust and intimacy; I am looking forward to hearing everyone elses - and looking forward to this Sunday's chat :)

-LL
 
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DavenJuan

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To experience intimacy - whether on the level of friendship - or to the most intimate level experienced in genuine romantic partnership - requires the courage to face the pain of loss.

So... Self-knowledge and self-acceptance (which brings about healthy self-esteem) is imperitive to intimacy - you cannot offer your true self to another if you hide behind a false mask.

Trust of your own ability to choose wisely who you share your most intimate self with is also imperitive.

Courage to risk the loss of the sharing - whether in the natural ending of a relationship that has "run it's course" - or in the profound pain of loss that death or divorce represents - and holding to the self-knowledge that that pain can be survived. And that the self remains in tact - and made better for having had such depth of intimacy with that chosen partner.
thats in itself is WHY this forum is so golden.

i think the problem/issue with most people in these catogories is MOST people dont KNOW THEMSEVLES to be able to completely trust or have "geniune" intimacy.

and EVEN when you do find yourself, you still fear completely trusting others because you have absolutely no control over their actions.

after reading your thread i question if i completely let myself experinece TRUE intimacy with not just women but even friends. i always have a piece of myself 'reserved" (subconsciously)

being able to ACCEPT that loss is something i myself am still working on
 

LovelyLady

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My Name is Nobody said:
Ignored

Save this crap for Loveshack
Wow. This and a red/negative rep point thingy?


Don't hold back MNIS, tell me how you really feel! :crackup:
 
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LovelyLady said:
Wow. This and a red/negative rep point thingy?


Don't hold back MNIS, tell me how you really feel! :crackup:
sorry, I haven't gotten laid in awhile. I wasn't thinking with my big head.
 

KontrollerX

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Good post as usual LovelyLady.

BTW, your rep points shall be restored!
 

LovelyLady

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My Name is Nobody said:
sorry, I haven't gotten laid in awhile. I wasn't thinking with my big head.
No worries, MNIN :) Here's to ALL your intimacy needs being met in the very near future. ;) :D
 

MacAvoy

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For all the guys crying for an LTR forum and I said there isn't a knowledge base to support it, well these are the kinds of posts that need to be made to develop that knowledge base over time.

FYI MNIN Lovelady isn't from LS and if you'd take the time of getting to know the women on the side instead of just arguing with iqqi, you'd know that she rarely posts but when she does, actually has some good insight.

Next time think before you speak & act and maybe you won't be pushing the women away.
 

Interceptor

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Amazing and deeply insightful and helpful post, Lovely Lady.

Thank you.


Ultimately, it takes Courage to open ourselves up, and reveal ourselves and be 'vulnerable'.

It takes Courage to be intimate with another.

And it takes the Self Acceptance of one's Self to be Intimate, and still understand that we are not in control of the other person's perceptions about us.

We are not responsible for how they feel.

And it is important to learn how to act in Faith.
Faith in oneself.
NOT FEAR.


Faith that yes, we may get 'hurt' or face loss of our partner.
We must accept that it may happen.

And we must go and LOVE ANYWAY....

It takes FAITH in one's Self
That you will handle the best way how to love, to be loved, and let go of that love if you must.

We can no longer operate out of fear.

Thats not the way the world works.

We can no longer assume that because Society does not seem to reward being vulnerable and intimate, that this IS CORRECT!!!!

It is NOT.
It is ok to acknowledge that You NEED companionship.
It really is.

We can no longer follow Superficial Societal Rules in WHAT is ''valued'.

And as a wonderful woman taught me:

If you are willing to love...


Then Love WELL.....


Do not go on unfinished.
Love well.
And proud.
For your life will be richer for it.
And you will be a better man for it as well.

Do not operate out of fear anymore.
And hold back your SELF.
And hide.
And run away
and check out
and not deal...


Thas not LIFE!!!
It does NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!

Do not follow the masses anymore.

Operate out of faith and confidence in your self. And make the best possible decision you CAN ...at THAT moment in time....with the Resources you HAVE NOW...
Trust your judgement.
Not your irrational societial program of FEAR based behavior.
 

strong like bull

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i had my fair share of wild times... keeping relationships physical and nothing more...

as ive grown and matured, my focus shifted from partying to being productive. focusing on business, getting in the best shape of my life, and being close with my family. along the way i met a great girl who shares my goals and tastes and beliefs...

its definately had its ups and downs as we both were cautious to let our guard down and trust another... but the intimate, close, loving, trusting relationship we built is amazing. something real - that goes hand in hand with focusing on career, family and life goals. last night we celebrated our one year anniversary and to be honest, for as much fun as weve already had, it still feels like its just the beginning.

the difference between associating with party girls and having a loving partner to support you, someone who REALLY cares about you, is monumental. its not that i only changed and grew because of her, but we met right around the start of my transition. i used to smoke weed 3-4 times a day, drank more than i had a reason to, had a dead end job, just got out of jail (DUI)... i never hurt anyone or did mean things, i was just really casual about things. no drive, nothing to pursue...

just a few things shes supported me in accomplishing in the past year:
quit smoking, cold turkey (after smoking daily for 4 years)
only drink occassionally
paid off debts
studied and passed state exams for my field of work
started up my business which eventually will retire my wife (to be :D), parents and myself
got into best physical and mental shape of my life

there comes a point in a mans life where its time to walk away from the game and get real. build something great for yourself and your family... be genuine. make a difference. i walked away a year ago, started down the path of whats real and true, and not once have i looked back. best of all, even tho my old friends from the party days gave me **** for sobering up and being monogamous etc etc (misery loves company...) i can say that it feels great to not be alone as i journey down this path. i have a companion. im walking hand in hand with a girl who fully supports me, genuinely wants the best for me.. and i want to share this life im building with her.

that is a potential which can only be attained through intimacy, trust, unconditional love, courage and faith.

-slb
 

BeyondCharm

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strong like bull said:
just a few things shes supported me in accomplishing in the past year:
quit smoking, cold turkey (after smoking daily for 4 years)
only drink occassionally
paid off debts
studied and passed state exams for my field of work
started up my business which eventually will retire my wife (to be :D), parents and myself
got into best physical and mental shape of my life

there comes a point in a mans life where its time to walk away from the game and get real. build something great for yourself and your family... be genuine. make a difference. i walked away a year ago, started down the path of whats real and true, and not once have i looked back. best of all, even tho my old friends from the party days gave me **** for sobering up and being monogamous etc etc (misery loves company...) i can say that it feels great to not be alone as i journey down this path. i have a companion. im walking hand in hand with a girl who fully supports me, genuinely wants the best for me.. and i want to share this life im building with her.

that is a potential which can only be attained through intimacy, trust, unconditional love, courage and faith.

-slb
Your view on dating/relationships is that it was just a game to you. Perhaps you saw yourself as a "player" and women as objects to be won. Some of us accomplish success in business, health and enjoy dating multiple women and its no game.
 

dannyegg4575

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I agree with a lot with what is being said but society as a whole is messing people’s mind like crazy. We are being screwed left and right with the definition of love. To cause more confusion, we have different people coming out with different ideas about love; what it is and what it is not.

To some, perhaps they’ve been hurt so many times that it causes them to distrust a relationship even if it was handed to them. To some, it may only be a game. But if you really think about it, without love, we really shouldn’t even exist today. People will have sex for the sake of sex. We need love just as much as we need hope. To me, anyway, I like the idea of coming home and sharing my triumphs with someone and to share my defeats without the fear of being seen as weak.

We come into this world alone and we will leave it alone, true. But wouldn’t it be awesome to be able to share the time you do have here with someone? Share with someone who understands us and someone who we can trust and ultimately be there for us.

But no, we see vulnerabilities as weakness. We see caring for someone we like as being needy and too easy to get. What caused this drastic shift? It all started when men still think the same way where women “need” them in order to survive? And so women started getting into the workforce and the idea of equality emerged. So now we have the issue of control and power. How can anyone have any peace of mind when there are constant power struggle? In order to win, one has to lose. Problem is, who’s willing to give up the power? Why do women have to be submissive? She’s making just as much money, if not more than the man. But if she’s making so much money, that means she too can have options to choose whoever better comes along right?
Ok, then so men should be submissive? Well, if the man is submissive, how is that attractive to the woman? So the power shifts to the woman. She wears the pants in the relationship. Is she going to be happy with that?

This is just my 2 cents anyway… sorry about the rambling…
 

dannyegg4575

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People come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime.

anyway, just want to share this... might be of use to someone who just broke up?

People come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime.

When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person.

When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed.

They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or
spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are there for the reason you need them to be.

Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to
bring the relationship to an end.

Sometimes they die.
Sometimes they walk away.

Sometimes they act up and force you to take a stand.

What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done.

The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

Some people come into your life for a SEASON, because your turn has come to share, grow or learn.

They bring you an experience of peace or make you laugh.

They may teach you something you have never
done.

They usually give you an unbelievable amount of joy.


Believe it, it is real. But only for a season.


LIFETIME relationships teach you lifetime lessons, things you must build upon in order to have a solid
emotional foundation.

Your job is to accept the lesson, love the person and put what you have learned to use in all other relationships and
areas of your life.

It is said that love is blind but friendship is clairvoyant.

Thank you for being a part of my life, whether you were a reason, a season or whether you are a lifetime.
 

j0n024

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I dont know.....I dont think anyone will figure out the definition of Love seeing as how every day we get a new definition (Mainly from women) and starts to construe and shift what we thought was love.

LL....you did post a nice post but I see no relevance for it....your going to discuss this at LS right....so then what was the point of posting this? I dont mean to attack you or put you down but I still dont see the reason for your post, maybe for validation or something deeper but it seems like you NEED a reason to lecture people about "Love," and it seems that you are just making a new defintion.

I am still a kid and wont try to understand what love really is until I'm more mature, I do know that since my background has made me strong I dont feel the need to be "Loved," by anyone other then my constants (IE: Family) People are alone plain and simple, yes you can say that people find someone to live with....but seeing the way marriage and divorces have been going lately it doesnt seem like there is a thing called love but lust and there is no denying that fact since when you get in a relationship what do you want more then anything.....for the other person to say "I love you." Love has just become another word and the meaning is becoming faded as time goes on , love can exist in your heart but findind someone that truly deeply loves you will never happen.

Love exists in one place and one place only....your parents....those are the ONLY people that will love you unconditionaly and trying to figure out the meaning of love in this convuluted world is a waste of time.
 

LovelyLady

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j0n024 said:
I

LL....you did post a nice post but I see no relevance for it....your going to discuss this at LS right....so then what was the point of posting this?
Good morning Jon.

This topic was agreed upon by participating members in last Sunday night's live chat session

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=133173

Generally someone is asked to write a thread prior to the chat to stimulate thought and interest in the topic so the quality of the chat conversation has some substance to it. It gives time for members to process ahead of time, and it also gives members who cannot participate in Chatzy the opportunity to participate and contribute their thoughts and experiences to the topic at hand.

I hope this helps clear things up :)
 
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MacAvoy said:
FYI MNIN Lovelady isn't from LS and if you'd take the time of getting to know the women on the side instead of just arguing with iqqi, you'd know that she rarely posts but when she does, actually has some good insight.

If you must know the truth I am just sick and tired of attention seeking wh0res in real life and on the web. It just boggles my mind why a woman would come here and continuously post even more than the guys, like Iqqi.

They don't even need game. They can just wear something nice and spread their legs and get all the sex they want. They don't even have to be pretty.

No reason to come here and wh0re attention all night and day. Something is wrong in the head.

And they want to call me bitter? Iqqi is the most bitter poster of all. She must have got burned real bad.

And I can tell you from experience most of the advice she gives guys is doomed to fail. I actually followed her advice a few times, and the outcome was horrible.

So on that note, I don't even want to see females when I come here. Every woman posting on sosuave automatically gets ignored by me from now on.

If I want to see women taking over a mens site I will go to Askmen.com.
 
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