Your Attention Please

Reposted and Updated by request.
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On the DJ tips section and sometimes the General discussion, more often than not you'll find at least one thread per week decrying the evils of the much maligned Attention Wh0re. And in the time I've spent on this forum I've yet to read a treatise that really analyzed the fundamentals, and why we make distinctions between one woman as an AW and another not (or at least more humble in appearance). So now, do me the service of reading my theory of Attention and please feel free to add or rebut any of the following.

All women are AWs. Your mother, your sister, the girl at the bar and the wife you've been married to for 20 years are all attention seeking. Some to a greater and some to a lesser degree, but it is an integral part of the feminine gender to desire attention.

From a very early age attention is a primary reinforcer for girls. As I've mentioned in few prior posts, part of my psychology education included child psych and my favorite subject has always been my ever-present 7 y.o. (at the time) daughter when doing case studies. To understand the feminine attention dynamic you have to go back into a female childhood socialization. There are countless studies that show attention-as-reinforcer is a psycho-biological construct. I should also add that there really is no absolute nature, or absolute nurture dyanmic so a definite amount of socialization and learned behavior intrinsically reinforces attention as rewarding, but the root of attention seeking behavior begins in female biology.

A few things to start with

In the same respect that men posess testosterone as their primary, gender-defining hormone, women's bodies produce estrogen and oxytocin in larger volume. Studies have shown both these hormones foster feelings of nurturing as a primary feminine trait for parental caring and oxytocin is a precursor for feelings of trust and comfort. Studies have also show that girl babies are picked up and given affection 4 times as often as are boy infants and toddlers. This of course bears evidence to the biological and socialization associations of attention reinforcement. In addition, studies of pre-adolescent and adolescent degrees of attention to both genders by parents always favors the female child. Correlation of this would indicate the rewarding benefit of attetion to the female as well as a behavioral modeling influence directed towards masculine independence by socializing boys to not be dependent upon the reinforcing aspect of attention.

Female Socialization

Little girls fight in an entirely different realm than do boys. Where boys fight in a the physical realm, girls fight in the psychological. That's not to exclude girls from actually coming to blows, but far more common is the occurance of pstchological combat and in no realm is this more effective than the denial of reinforcing attention within a female social collective.

Little girls have a predictable tendency to form small girl-only collectives or 'peer clutches' from the time they are introduced into kindergarten. This social collective progressively becomes a rewarding and reinforcing social unit, locking out those not included and nurturing those who are. This dynamic can last through high school (i.e. Cliques, etc.), into college and into mature adulthood, but the commonality within all variations of this clutch is the qualifying influence of the affirming power of attention.

Should one member of the clutch offend another, it is the hierarchy of an individual member's ability to maintain the most attention that generally determines the victor in the dispute. The worst consequence of such a dispute being ostracization from the group - thus the absoulte denial of this reaffirming attention-as-reinforcement. The clutch develops a hirearchy of influence depending upon each girl's ability to attract and maintain reinforcing attention. This attention can be from any source; within the group, outside the group and opposite sex attention becomes the most valuable after puberty.

Attention attraction capacity denotes social rank within the peer clutch. The more attractive the girl, the more popular she bcomes and the more influence she weilds. This isn't to say that any particular female cognizantly realizes this directly. However, when ostracized from the collective, this capacity for attracting attention in a high degree makes her despised. The attention can still be beneficial for affirmation (i.e. realized jealousy), it's just that the intent that has changed.

Thus, women use attention not only for their own affirmation, individually and collectively, but also to do combat with each other. Far more damaging than physical fighting is the long term psychological impact of denying this reinforcement, or better still, delegitimizing or disqualifying a girl/woman's capacity to attract this attention. Combine this with a woman's natural, and innately higher agency to communicate both verbally and non-verbally (i.e covert communications) and you can see the potential this has in damaging a rival.

This might explain a woman's natural propensity to gossip. When a woman attacks the respectability and character of another ("she's such a slut"), in essence, she is assualting the woman's agency for garniering attention by delegitimizing it.

The ticking clock

Now lets add to this complex attention construct the universal female recognition that, as a woman ages her sexual marketability decreases. Bear in mind that a woman's primary agency for attracting this reinforcing attention is her her sexuality and physical beauty as rewarded by men. This then fosters an imperative for this attention-combat to intensify as a woman reaches her 'expiration date'. In the last 30 years there has been a definite push through the feminization of society to de-emphasize this natural propensity and/or to divert this affirmation to be derived from other sources (i.e. career, independence, internal rewards, etc.). However it has yet to be fully (if ever) realized within western female-centric culture. All one needs do is tally the countless number of beauty products and the methods used to advertise them in popular media. 90% puls of all advertising specific to 'career minded' women is still for beauty products. Irrespective of popular socialization, this attention dynamic will not be ignored.

Rollo, I have some questions for you.

Are you referring to North American women or women in general? I'd like to know how you explain the "attention wh0re" complex in countries such as India where there is a high rate of female infanticide. Girl babies are neglected in some communities (especially the rural ones) and are taught, from a tender age, that the male has more value and worth than her.

Also, one can argue that similar to their their female counterparts, little boys band together and have an internal ranking system as well. One need only observe the little guys at play to notice that they too seek out attention in order to assert their dominance.

I'd like to know how you reconcile these facts/observations with your first post.

Interesting. What about the female who has no female friends? The ones with all guy friends, you know...the ones who say "Girls are too catty, or can't be trusted" as a reason for their lack of female buddies.

All women are AWs. Your mother, your sister, the girl at the bar and the wife you've been married to for 20 years are all attention seeking. Some to a greater and some to a lesser degree, but it is an integral part of the feminine gender to desire attention.

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I think this is true in the general sense, exactly as you described and explained. However, I suspect when the accusation "attention wh0re" is thrown around on occasion to refer to a particular woman, what they really mean is "drama queen", which isn't exactly the same thing.

IMO, "attention seeking" is but one of a variety of elements of the classic drama queen, and probably one of the milder symptoms. More destructive/disturbing attributes of this affliction include emotional outbursts, irrational behaviors, self-centered/self-absorbed, overt jealous/envy of others, and dangerously manipulative. I believe the clinical term for such a woman would be some combination of neurotic and/or histronic.

The way I've always defined "attention wh0re" is a woman who uses her looks, body, and even kino in an effort to recieve material benefit (money, drinks, cigarettes, rides, etc).

All women like attention, but not all will use it for material benefit. Some will use it to gain popularity, status, or just to cure boredom or have somebody to talk to.

I think most men are attention wh0res, too, but then that would take away from the novelty of the term.

Even this thread title is kind of attention wh0rish. "ATTENTION!!!" Lol.

<shrugs. shuts door behind her>

You know Rollo, I always found strange that you never mentioned anything about the so called AW, not up until now, especially because you are indeed a psychologist.

The Aw that most people refer here, is the girl with Histrionic Personality Disorder (H.P.D), does this term ring a bell Rollo?

These ones are master manipulators.

I hope you see what I mean.

iqqi said:

I think most men are attention wh0res,

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yea, I agree. sort of. Most PEOPLE seek attention in one way or the other. We are pack animals. we live in tribes. we depend on each other. men and women in different ways.

men evolved to hunt together and kill and grunt at each another. Hence todays male fascination with sports. women evolved to nurture and talk to one another on many levels, hence todays female propensity to talk everything to fukking death.

women evolved to attract resources from males primarily because men were the ones going out and getting the resources. (until the last couple generations).

nothing wrong or sinister or psychologically mysterious about that.

so when does it cross the line between normal attention seeking and attention horing? My guess is when a woman doesn't give YOU the attention YOU think you deserve, then she's an attention hor.

I would liken the so called attention hor to a pua who feels a need to go out and bone everything that moves. Both are trying to fill in something missing
on the inside with something from the outside. problem is, it never works.


Everybody's got problems. trick is to find somebody whose level of fukk-up'd-ness is at a level you can deal with.

Anyone who wants to visit FL for a couple of days....I will introduce you to a true AW. I only know ONE, and I have complete confidence in labeling her as such.

iqqi said:

I think most men are attention wh0res, too, but then that would take away from the novelty of the term.

Even this thread title is kind of attention wh0rish. "ATTENTION!!!" Lol.

<shrugs. shuts door behind her>

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I think you don't know what an attention wh0re is despite being one of the biggest AW around.

STR8UP said:

Anyone who wants to visit FL for a couple of days....I will introduce you to a true AW. I only know ONE, and I have complete confidence in labeling her as such.

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I wouldn't mind visting FL for a few days sometime before it gets too hot down there but I'd hate to have to pay for a hotel too lol.

ketostix said:

I think you don't know what an attention wh0re is despite being one of the biggest AW around.

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You just want my attention, and follow me around everywhere to get it.

Here little troll Keto, here is a cookie. :moon:

How do you ignore people on here?

EDIT: Nevermind I figured it out =)

iqqi said:

You just want my attention, and follow me around everywhere to get it.

Here little troll Keto, here is a cookie. :moon:

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Ha, you wouldn't be the first chick that tried to play the reframe game. Two words for you, wishful thinking .

Desdinova said:

The way I've always defined "attention wh0re" is a woman who uses her looks, body, and even kino in an effort to recieve material benefit (money, drinks, cigarettes, rides, etc).

All women like attention, but not all will use it for material benefit. Some will use it to gain popularity, status, or just to cure boredom or have somebody to talk to.

Click to expand...

I think that's too narrow a definition. The Gold-Digger could be classified in a sub type of the AW. You can be affected by the AW in many ways that don't involve them getting some material benefit. AW are principally after attention, time, energy and what is called emotional "supply". The bottom line, though, is that the behavior does seem based on the massive need for a feeling of security be it financial emotional spiritual, etc.

Purple-Haze said:

I'd like to know how you explain the "attention wh0re" complex in countries such as India where there is a high rate of female infanticide. Girl babies are neglected in some communities (especially the rural ones) and are taught, from a tender age, that the male has more value and worth than her.

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Naturally there are going to be regional and cultural differences in gender socialization. And the obvious example I'm using is westernized gender acculturation, but the examples you're using (infanticide, etc.) are the results of societal pressures exerting influencing that would otherwise be an unhindered process in a majority of cultures. In india or China, girl babies may be put to death, but the preference for male children is the result of population and political pressures, not one of neglecting nurturement. And in either case, they boys are still expected to be even more self-sufficient because of these pressures. In China for example where most couples are mandated to only have one child, the parents must put all investment into that one male child as a bid for their own future, so the expectations and the preparation for that male child's future success (and by default the parent's own) is paramount.

Regardless, the attention flow is out of balance in these instances because there is only one child to apply it to.

Purple-Haze said:

Also, one can argue that similar to their their female counterparts, little boys band together and have an internal ranking system as well. One need only observe the little guys at play to notice that they too seek out attention in order to assert their dominance.

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This is true, and without going into too much child psych here, you have to look at the structured play of both sexes to really understand this. Boys do band together, and they do compete, but in much different ways. There is most definitely an attention need for all children of either sex, but girls tend to form peer clutches based on a hierarchy of attention. A boy's status isn't so much determined by the attention he commands within his own group so much as the actions he performs to get that attention. For girls, attention IS status affirmation - attention is currency for girl, and it's the coin of the realm for adolescent and adult women.

Not to go into too much detail but, you also have to take into consideration what each gender does inside their peer clutch. Girls tend to play within secure confines (a precursor to their natural need for security). They make circles and boundary areas to play in, their games are almost universally coordinated and synchronized - think hand slapping games, or jump rope while singing memorized songs, or hopscotch. This reinforces the peer clutch in such a way that their security need becomes associated with that clutch and the attention-ranking dynamic. The worst thing that could happen to a girl is to have a clutch member say "I'm not gonna be your friend any more." And total ostracization from the clutch is a fear that boys simply don't experience to the same degree within their own groupings.

Warrior74 said:

Interesting. What about the female who has no female friends? The ones with all guy friends, you know...the ones who say "Girls are too catty, or can't be trusted" as a reason for their lack of female buddies.

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The female you're describing is a textbook example of the 'clutch outcast' and the methodology she uses to gratify this attention deficit. Rather than seeking attention from both within the clutch and from the opposite sex, she becomes dependent upon male attention after being ostracized from it. This is why we see these threads about women "with a lot of guy friends"; these girls are compensating for the attention denied to her from her peer group. Rationalizations such as "women are too catty" or "I've just always gotten along better with guys" is a thinly veiled attempt to divert attention away from this deficit and legitimize this necessity.

azanon said:

I suspect when the accusation "attention wh0re" is thrown around on occasion to refer to a particular woman, what they really mean is "drama queen", which isn't exactly the same thing.

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I may have been a little hasty in my own using of this term to describe all women so let me revise this a bit. All women are "attention seeking" to varying degrees. The reason I'm putting this out is because there needs to be a distinction between women's need for attention and women who overtly call attention to this need. These are the AWs. In most instances, a true AW is often a peer clutch outcast herself who's attempting to outdo her former peer group, even when this group gets extrapolated to "all women" in her adolescence and young adulthood.

Women on whole don't like an ostentatious, overt play for attention by either sex, but doubly so for their own. First, because in the AW's being overt she's directly using men's natural communication preference while thumbing her nose at the universally sanctioned covert communication women opt for. Second, because attention plays are always interpreted as an attack - this is women's preferred combat method and it's particularly effective in it's psychological impact on rival women because there's an unspoken understanding that men wont necessarily "get it" with respect to the covert conflict, but both know what the AW's is doing and the other(s) resent it. And finally, the AW overtly draws attention to the female attention dynamic. The AW, another women, betrays and exposes the feminine achilles heel - women need and use attention for personal and social affirmation.

RT,

Do you see a "take-home", application aspect of this discussion, or is the value strictly knowledge only? I'm always asking myself, how can I use new knowledge to my advantage. Sure, I agree knowledge in and of itself has value, but there's even more value if we can use this knowledge to our advantage as improving DJs.

AZANON, as much as I hate to quote G.I. Joe, "now you know, and knowing is half the battle."

There are a lot of practical applications that come with understanding this attention dynamic, and particularly when you take it into consideration with feminine communication methods, feminine competition anxiety and the social conventions that support it. However, most importantly, Men need to understand the value of their own attention and how women use it for affirmation. This dynamic is the underpinning for a host of misunderstandings guys fall prey to. The guy stuck in the LJBF hole needs to know why his attention, while devalued, is still needed by his new "friend". The guy wondering why a Neg Hit is effective or why getting a woman to qualify to him is essential. Why does a takeaway work wonders? All of these are built on a foundation of women using attention for affirmation.

I use this.... weapon from time to time, but your write-up is a nice reminder of just how powerful this sort of thing can be with them. Good stuff!

Remember, guys: If she needs to flirt with someone else, you don’t want to be her boyfriend.

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Doc Love´s view on Attention Wh0res:
http://www.askmen.com/dating/doclove_400/426_relationship_expert.html