My 2nd LTR, Same Problems as 1st - What Am I Doing Wrong?

DJCT · Apr 5, 2008

I've noticed something that's happened to me in two LTRs and I'd like some input.

After a few months, the sex starts to get boring and I start hearing things like:

How come you aren't more romantic?
All guys ever think about is sex.
All guys are cheaters.

Some other things she does:

Sometimes she closes down completely. Especially when we move from making out to having sex.
Sometimes she'll joke around and say "Why don't you buy this for me?" I'll just stare at her.
She resists getting adventurous sexually and complains about being treated like an object when I suggest things.
Sometimes whines and moans excessively about work, her family, her friends, her life, etc.
She doesn't like to be expressive during sex. I told her to make some noise and she said it doesn't feel right.

I have several things I'm aware of and working on:

Being too available. I'm starting to be more unavailable now.
Not approaching and flirting w/ other women that much. I've been approaching and flirting more.
Rushing makeouts and sex. I'll start slowing things down, paying more attention to how she is responding.
Not calling her on her bad behavior. Not really sure the best way to handle this? It's disrespectful when she talks about all guys being cheaters. ANd it'd dumb to complain about guys wanting sex. Although I suspect that when she says those things, she is trying to communicate something else and I'm just not getting it. So I want to understand what she is really trying to communicate and I want her to stop treating me like I'm some kind of dog.
Maybe not being confident enough in getting adventurous sexually, resulting in her not trusting me enough to follow my lead. Not sure on this right now? I suspect she doesn't trust me enough to take her there. Prob because I've been acting too AFC lately?
When she launches into her b!tch sessions, I just look at her blankly until she is done. I don't move. I don't speak, laugh or nod my head. When she is done I just turn away, do something else or change the subject. I can't stand listening to this type of talk. Mostly because she is griping about situations she's created for herself. She isn't looking for solutions or suggestions--she just wants to vent. Maybe I'm a jerk but that kind of conversation is pointless. The silent treatment seems to work. She has started apologizing after her rants and actually the rants have almost ceased. I hate to be like that but I'm not going to listen to that type of talk anymore.

Its not all bad. She is often sweet. Cooks for me, rubs my back, buys me little presents here and there, texts me w/ sexy or romantic messages. Sometimes the sex is amazing. Sometimes it is pretty god-awful though. And that is becoming more and more the case.

After reading what I wrote, the first thing that comes to mind is NEXT. However, I've gone through the same problems in 2 different relationships now, so although I know this girl has her own problems, I know I have plenty to work on. I know that I'm getting too AFC after the first few months. Can you guys help me identify some specific areas I need to improve in?

- DJCT

Something else I want to add. I also suspect when she is complaining to me about stuff, she is again trying to communicate something else to me that I just don't get. And I don't always give her the silent treatment either. Sometimes I just start kissing her or pull her too me and start massaging her shoulders, then kissing her. Or I just tell her "you're with me now" and pull her to me. That usually works but not always.

One more thing. Often she'll ask me to do these ridiculous favors for her. I'll text her that I'm out shopping now and that I'm coming over later. She'll text "can you pick up razors and deoderant for me?". Or she'll be somewhere and text "can you stop by my house and pick me up x?". I usually ignore these, although once it was kind of important so I did it and still ended up feeling like a chump afterwards.

The more I write about this the more I think it's screwed

Phyzzle · Apr 5, 2008

Don't initiate touching any more. Next time you see her, don't lean in for a kiss before she does. Don't grope her before she gropes you. Let her initiate everything for a while. You might have to go a week without getting laid, but it could get her passions up.

Sometimes whines and moans excessively about work, her family, her friends, her life, etc. . . .

When she launches into her b!tch sessions, I just look at her blankly until she is done. I don't move. I don't speak, laugh or nod my head. When she is done I just turn away, do something else or change the subject. I can't stand listening to this type of talk. Mostly because she is griping about situations she's created for herself. She isn't looking for solutions or suggestions--she just wants to vent.

You should be more forgiving of this. You're not going to find a woman that doesn't talk about bad things happening, without wanting to fix them. Yes, every girl has that one b!tch at work she totally hates. Just get used to it.

wjh · Apr 5, 2008

Phyzzle said:
You should be more forgiving of this. You're not going to find a woman that doesn't talk about bad things happening, without wanting to fix them. Yes, every girl has that one b!tch at work she totally hates. Just get used to it.

Not really off-topic but, should a Man try to "fix" the problems she's venting about or just say "uh huh, yea, uh huh, uh huh, i hear you" until she's done venting?

Francisco d'Anconia · Apr 5, 2008

Beyond sex, in what other ways do you connect with each other?

DJCT · Apr 5, 2008

We just get along really well. Teasing each other, laughing, always wrestling and playing around. It doesn't seem to matter where we are it's always like that. She initiates plenty of that stuff too. We can go out to a low-key bar, drink and talk to each other and have fun. Sometimes we go to dance clubs and dance together. Or we go out for a walk, hiking, etc. Hang out w/ friends. Hang out w/ parents.

There are some big differences between us though that may or may not be important. For one thing, she is much younger and a few inches taller. She also used to model. I'm kind of a regular looking guy. None of the stuff matters to me. But sometimes I wonder if it matters to her. I just assume that if I'm ok with it, she'll be ok with it too. I have my life together: a good career, my own business, dress well, etc. She is still going to school, sorting out work and life.

Francisco d'Anconia · Apr 5, 2008

DJCT said:
We just get along really well. Teasing each other, laughing, always wrestling and playing around. It doesn't seem to matter where we are it's always like that. She initiates plenty of that stuff too. We can go out to a low-key bar, drink and talk to each other and have fun. Sometimes we go to dance clubs and dance together. Or we go out for a walk, hiking, etc. Hang out w/ friends. Hang out w/ parents.

All good stuff superficially but nothing special than what you could do with any woman you'd date. Do you really need to wonder why things begin to get boring after a while?

DJCT said:
There are some big differences between us though that may or may not be important. For one thing, she is much younger and a few inches taller. She also used to model. I'm kind of a regular looking guy. None of the stuff matters to me. But sometimes I wonder if it matters to her. I just assume that if I'm ok with it, she'll be ok with it too. I have my life together: a good career, my own business, dress well, etc. She is still going to school, sorting out work and life.

Do you guys ever talk about stuff that matters; the things which are important to you, her and the relationship?

Phyzzle · Apr 5, 2008

One more thing. Often she'll ask me to do these ridiculous favors for her.

Which is okay, if she's doing favors for you.

I'm getting a vague impression now that maybe you've taken the standing up for yourself too far. If she's cooking for you and occasionally buying things for you, you can pick things up for her at the store when you're already standing there at the store.

wjh said:
Should a Man try to "fix" the problems she's venting about or just say "uh huh, yea, uh huh, uh huh, i hear you" until she's done venting?

The second. Be it a Dr. Phil-style relationship article or a Pick-up artist manual, it's widely accepted that there are different communication styles at work here. Women are very sensitive to little social disturbances, and she will speak out loud about them to "feel" her way through them, as you might shake and flex a sore joint to feel your way through an injury, to get a grasp on what's wrong.

Of course, it can be taken to an extreme, but if a woman is willing to humor me enough to learn chess and to go camping from time to time, I can humor her ways of seeking relief from the big, ugly world.

Edit: In fact, you can see this "thinking out loud" phenomenon strikingly demonstrated in roughly half of the threads started by female posters here.

DJCT · Apr 5, 2008

We talk about our aspirations and goals, things we want to do or be now and in the future. We don't really talk about the our relationship or the direction of our relationship. Is that what you mean?

Francisco d'Anconia · Apr 5, 2008

DJCT said:
We talk about our aspirations and goals, things we want to do or be now and in the future. We don't really talk about the our relationship or the direction of our relationship. Is that what you mean?

This brings me back to my initial question, besides sex (and just hanging out with one another) how do the two of you connect with one another? What are the things which are unique to only your relationship?

DJCT · Apr 5, 2008

Phyzzle said:
Which is okay, if she's doing favors for you.

I'm getting a vague impression now that maybe you've taken the standing up for yourself too far. If she's cooking for you and occasionally buying things for you, you can pick things up for her at the store when you're already standing there at the store.

This could be true. In my past, I used to play the part of male-girlfriend to plenty of women and did all sorts of AFC stuff like plenty of guys do. So I'm maybe overly wary of being that guy (includes listening to girls whine about stuff).

DJCT · Apr 5, 2008

Francisco d'Anconia said:
This brings me back to my initial question, besides sex (and just hanging out with one another) how do the two of you connect with one another? What are the things which are unique to only your relationship?

That's a good question. I've never really considered it. Do you mean some unique shared activity or shared interest? We're both interested in health, fitness and psychology. A lot of our discussions and activities revolve around that stuff.

Francisco d'Anconia · Apr 5, 2008

DJCT said:
That's a good question. I've never really considered it. Do you mean some unique shared activity or shared interest? We're both interested in health, fitness and psychology. A lot of our discussions and activities revolve around that stuff.

You can talk about that kind of stuff with anyone, hell we could talk about that same stuff but I'm not going to date you because of that even if you bought me dinner.

Interceptor · Apr 5, 2008

Verbal discussions are eventually a limited medum of communication and building intimacy.

I believe you would be better served by doing activities together and less 'talking' for a while.

I strongly believe that women want intimacy and communicatin and want to know your deep feelings, but not by always 'talking'.

I strongly believe that at some point, the 'talking' is NOT what they want from a masculine man anymore.
They want MORE masculine strength and energy.
NOT more 'talking".

Women want to know you have empathy and your intuition is zoomed in and focused on them.

You need to learn how to understand her nonverbal cues and language.

And stop connecting to her like a female friend.

She is not with you because you act like one of her 'grilfriends'.

She doesnt want to have that kind of relationship dynamic with A Masculine MAN.

I frimly believe that at some point women want you to communicate to them like a MAN. And that is through physical action, not words.

If you are ALWAYS communicating to her through verbal communication she will be unfulfilled.
She will not "FEEL" Your Masculinity.

She FEELS your Masculinity not through your words ONLY.

But your physical manifestation of your core masculinity, and that is....

....through ACTION.

Complement her femenine energy with your Masculine , active energy.

DO THINGS WITH HER

And stop TALKING with HER so much

Interceptor · Apr 5, 2008

She'll text "can you pick up razors and deoderant for me?". Or she'll be somewhere and text "can you stop by my house and pick me up x?". I usually ignore these, although once it was kind of important so I did it and still ended up feeling like a chump afterwards

She just told you what she wants from you, and youre not doing it. Theres your answer right there

Physical Demonstration of love and affection for her, in a masculine manner.
PHYSICAL ACTION

she is even telling you what she needs

DJCT · Apr 5, 2008

Francisco d'Anconia said:
You can talk about that kind of stuff with anyone, hell we could talk about that same stuff but I'm not going to date you because of that even if you bought me dinner.

I kind of see your point but humor my ignorance for a minute: what kind of original things do you have in your relationships (past or present) that others don't? Maybe you can help me w/ an example and I can provide you with a better answer.

Your post suggests I'm missing some huge puzzle piece in my relationships. I definitely could be. And I could be so blind to it that I can't even grasp what you're talking about. Kind of frightening to think about.

On the other hand, what's so unique about my (or anybody else's) relationships to my parents? My siblings? My guy friends? On a grand scale: nothing really. On a personal scale: many things. Same w/ my relationship to my gf.

So maybe I'm a little confused by your question.

Francisco d'Anconia · Apr 5, 2008

DJCT said:
I kind of see your point but humor my ignorance for a minute: what kind of original things do you have in your relationships (past or present) that others don't? Maybe you can help me w/ an example and I can provide you with a better answer.

Your post suggests I'm missing some huge puzzle piece in my relationships. I definitely could be. And I could be so blind to it that I can't even grasp what you're talking about. Kind of frightening to think about.

On the other hand, what's so unique about my (or anybody else's) relationships to my parents? My siblings? My guy friends? On a grand scale: nothing really. On a personal scale: many things. Same w/ my relationship to my gf.

So maybe I'm a little confused by your question.

You're getting it. You're confused because you have yet to consider that "missing piece," whatever that may be. I nor anyone else can tell you what that piece is either, that's why I asked the question.

Here's something to consider; if you're not happy with the way that your past relationships have evolved (or devolved), why not redefine what you want a relationship to be. People spend more time defining what they want in a new car but are seldom that specific when it comes to the content of a relationship.

A blue Chevy isn't a blue Honda but they are both blue cars. People choose to purchase one instead of the other by things other than what's on their surface; perhaps you should too.

DJCT · Apr 5, 2008

Interceptor said:
She just told you what she wants from you, and youre not doing it. Theres your answer right there

Physical Demonstration of love and affection for her, in a masculine manner.
PHYSICAL ACTION

she is even telling you what she needs

Interceptor, this is a good insight. Where do I draw the line though? I like doing nice things for her but I don't want her to get spoiled. I don't want her to come to think of me as her errand boy. Like Phyzzle observed, I may lean a bit too much towards standing up for myself.

My suspicion is that hang-ups like this come from trying to "act out" the right behavior instead of having the balls to just let loose the part of one that naturally knows how to be the right way.

DJCT · Apr 5, 2008

Francisco d'Anconia said:
You're getting it. You're confused because you have yet to consider that "missing piece," whatever that may be. I nor anyone else can tell you what that piece is either, that's why I asked the question.

A lot for me to digest and think about here. Good reply!

Francisco d'Anconia · Apr 5, 2008

DJCT said:
A lot for me to digest and think about here. Good reply!

Take your time, it's important stuff.

Interceptor · Apr 5, 2008

The truly confident guy is never concerned with micro managing his 'image'.
He knows that its ok to make mistakes, and how another person perceives him is not his personal responsibility.

This is why you have to really know your Values and your Self worth, and have strong authentic self esteem.

Imagine an ultra confident hawt chick. Would she always be micro managing her interactions wth guys?

Only if the guy is much higher value to her.

If youre not a romantic guy, its OK.

If youre not that physically affectonate , its OK

If you dont really love this woman with all your heart, its OK

But you have to ask yourself why are you not happy with the current dynamic?
And do not get angry or judgemental if she is not finding the relationship as fulfilling and demonstrates her unhappiness and dissatisfaction.

Why are you there in the first place?

Why is she there?

Are you willing to make it better?

Is it TOO much to ask of you?
Is it TOO much work?

And extremely important :

Are you communciating to her what your needs and wants are?

A lot of guys coast through relationships NEVER asserting what they want from their partner
So she gets used to acting bratty because guys put up with it.

Remember, it is counterintuitive to stand up tp a woman , for a lot of guys.
Such is their view of the precious gift that they believe women possess.

But it is NOT Counter Productive.

Women want to know what you want.
If youre not communicating it to them. , and youre not happy and are resenting her, you need to recognize that.

Stand up for yourself and your needs being met, and your wants being met.

You dont always have to verbalize it though.

Dont be afraid of making mistakes.

Be afraid of not learning and growing.

That is deep rooted insecurity controling your thoughts and actions.
And it is better to make mistakes yet hold on to your self esteem and your values, and learn from the situation, than be terrified of 'looking bad".

Did you know that the vast majority of women are more attracted to a man for his positive, and confident reaction to his mistake, than the ultra suave guy who NEVER makes a mistake?

Why is that?

How can a guy make a mistake and still be attractive to a woman?

How can a guy who NEVER makes a mistake actually turn off and creep a girl out?

My 2nd LTR, Same Problems as 1st - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Don Juan

Too Many Women?

Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Don Juan

Too Many Women?

Master Don Juan

Don Juan

Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Too Many Women?