Do I have a "passiveness" problem?

I have been doing a bit of reflecting lately and I think I've found what could be a large flaw in my approach to relationship and was looking for some advice.

In ever LTR I've been in, I guess you could make a case for me being AFC, but in an odd way. I grew up with a really strict dad who yelled at me constantly, most of the time for BS reasons when he was just looking to blow off steam. In the end, I think I turned out to be a pretty good guy, but because I grew up around yelling and anger, I never really liked it. I'm more of a "channel your emotions" type guy. Playing sports, I was very successful at getting angry and playing with emotion, but using that emotion in a creative way. In my relationships though, I have never gotten into a yelling match with a gf. Usually, no matter what they do, whether it's throwing a fit, yelling at me for something, even cheating, I really have never raised my voice. I would get a little angry, but most of the time I would just walk away or shrugg it off. I think part of my upbringing is involved here as I could never understand yelling at someone you care about. I always viewed it as a lack of maturity in both my old man and my gf's. Also, I don't think I've ever put enough stock into a girl to where it really bothered me THAT much. I've even been cheated on and it really didn't phase me beyond a bit of dissapointment. I saw no reason to yell because what's done is done.

Most of the time when I get dumped, I'll just walk away and say nothing. I don't really give her a piece of my mind. The odd thing is that the reason I usually get dumped is because they feel as though I don't care, but in the end, when I don't fight for them, they start calling me after a while because they feel insulted that I just "move on so quickly" (as one once put it). Even my mom asked me recently "what are you going to do? just date a new girl every year and never settle down? aren't you going to fight for (her)?"

I was just wondering what you guys thought of this. I only figured it out recently. It basically goes as this: girl's yell, i don't like to yell back. girl's cheat on me or dump me, I don't yell. Because I don't yell or get mad, girl's feel they can do what they want, then later feel neglected after a while and want me back because of the ease with which I move on.

The opposite end of the spectrum exists with me when dealing with road rage, pickup basketball or watching my sports teams play. All I do is get pissed off, talk trash or yell at the TV.

Opinions? I guess I just haven't met the one who matters all that much yet.

Yes I Think You Should Stop Smelling *****.i Use To Have This Kind Of Problem.

Stop Smelling ***** It Tinks.that Is Why You Are Having This Problem.

not sure what your response means.....

i wish i could have this type of control.

i think what you need to do is find out what is important to you.

what are you looking for in a realtionship? there is a difference between not letting things get to you, picking your battles, and not having in BALLS.

women are going to be women, they are going to complain when you "seem as if you dont care"

find what makes YOU happy. if you flow through life with no interest in anything or no joy. you are missing the best part

I hear what you're saying. My passions in life really are my alma mater's sports teams, my jeep, and working out. I get down and sad when things go south with my gf's, but i've never been moved to yell at one......yet like i said before, i'll yell myself horse watching sports.

i think i need to change this about myself with women because, like i said, its "you don't care, i'm mad; you don't care, i cheated on you; you don't care, i'm leaving you; you don't care, i want you back because you don't care."

when my school (miami) lost the national title game to ohio state in 2002, i didn't leave the house for three days and had tears in my eyes most of the day after the game. when my ex told me she cheated on me, i was playing Call of Duty 4 and didn't stop the game.

I'm not trying to sound cool or whatever at all....it actually bothers me that very little bothers me.

It is better to have a passiveness problem than an anger problem. It'll keep you out of jail.


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From your anecdotes it seems that you do not have a problem expressing your emotions about loss.. in fact you sound very serene most of the time about events which would knock a lot of guys off their perch.
The story about your reaction when your G/f told you that she cheated is priceless.. THat kind of detachment will stand you in good stead as you get older.
The queation is whether you are too laid back to the point of perceived disinterest .. I am going to go out on a limb here and say NO.
Women who cheat to get your attention are NOT worthwhile women. There are several other ways to iengage amd involve a man - cheating is not the way.
Faked-up dramatics, playing the jealousy card, provoking you via endless tests are all tactics of low quality women.
MY guess is that you will become passionate about someone who really values YOU .
Avoid the AWs and the drama queens ..

Wow jophil, that as a really good response. I mean, I do get emotional when things like her telling me she cheated on me happen, but I could never muster enough emotion to yell. I guess I would feel like less of a man if I threw a fit and yelled at her as opposed to feeling like less of a man that she cheated on me. Odd, I know. Quite honestly, the idea of her cheating on me almost turned me on.

I guess I'm just messed up.

JeeperCane said:

Most of the time when I get dumped, I'll just walk away and say nothing. I don't really give her a piece of my mind. The odd thing is that the reason I usually get dumped is because they feel as though I don't care, but in the end, when I don't fight for them, they start calling me after a while because they feel insulted that I just "move on so quickly" (as one once put it). Even my mom asked me recently "what are you going to do? just date a new girl every year and never settle down? aren't you going to fight for (her)?"

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I tell ya, the 'whole fight for her' thing is ludicrous. As guys, we're supposed to get cheated and dumped on, and yet, it's our fault for 'not fighting for her'?

Jeepers...you sound like a level-headed guy that has a healthy way of handling things.

You will live a long time and have a happy life by channelling your emotions like you do.

Also, actions speak soo much louder than words. To walk when someone is yelling at you is priceless. You are showing them that they do not get to you. That's definitely puts you a notch above most guys, and most people for that matter. A lot of people live wound-up ready to explode from the stresses of their lives.

The thing is he's saying he gets a lot of 'complaints' from women that say that he doesn't seem to show "he cares."

That's a problem, IMHO.


He's giving us the example that he's used to be yelled at by his dad, so he eventually tuned him out and just accepted it without fightng him. He did that psychologically and emotionally and it shut him down.
Of course, he shouldn't 'fight" with his dad. Or anyone.
But he learned to be UNCOMMUNICATIVE.
Due to his father.


He shuts off his feelings for those he is close to.

In order to avoid recreating or experiencing the situations he expereinced with his dad.

He avoids that by just 'not caring."

So, yeah, while he is controlled, it's becasue he learned from the volatile situation with his Dad.

He got sensory overload, and now shuts down with people.
Although he is still in touch with things that he cares about.

The opposite end of the spectrum exists with me when dealing with road rage, pickup basketball or watching my sports teams play. All I do is get pissed off, talk trash or yell at the TV

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this is where he can vent his anger. The frustration he holds inside.

Now he does have good control in some areas. But when it comes to emotional intimacy, he just doesn't want to deal with it. So he cuts off any deep intimate connection. Which is why he is so able to 'move on'. The guy doesn't care.
He learned how to not care.
But not recognizing Love in oneself, will not bring you Love into your Life.

So the guy is shooting himself in the foot until he gets this issue handled.

Now, I am NOT nor ever will advocate 'yelling" in anger.
Loss of emotional control is not what we want.
But loss of EMOTION is not what we want either.

UNREACTIVE is a GOOD thing.

UNRESPONSIVE is a BAD thing.


There may be times when 'fighting" FOR your woman is the right choice. No one is perfect.

Interceptor said:

The thing is he's saying he gets a lot of 'complaints' from women that say that he doesn't seem to show "he cares."

That's a problem, IMHO.


He's giving us the example that he's used to be yeeled at by his dad, so he eventually tuned him out and just accepted it without fighitng him. He did that psychologically and emotionally and it shut him down.
Of course, he shouldn't 'fight" with his dad. Or anyone.
But he learned to be UNCOMMUNICATIVE.
Due to his father.


He shuts off his feelings for those he is close to.

In order to avoid recreating or experiencing the situations he expereinced with his dad.

He avoids that by just 'not caring."

So, yeah, while he is controlled, it's becasue he learned from the volatile situation with his Dad.

He got sensory overload, and now shuts down with people.
Although he is still in touch with things that he cares about.





this is where he can vent his anger. The frustration he holds inside.

Now he does have good control in some areas. But when it comes to emotional intimacy, he just doesn't want to deal with it. So he cuts off any deep intimate connection. Which is why he is so able to 'move on'. The guy doesn't care.
He learned how to not care.
But not recognizing Love in oneself, will not bring you Love into your Life.

So the guy is shooting himself in the foot until he gets this issue handled.

Now, I am NOT nor ever will advocate 'yelling" in anger.
Loss of emotional control is not what we want.
But loss of EMOTION is not what we want either.

UNREACTIVE is a GOOD thing.

UNRESPONSIVE is a BAD thing.


There may be times when 'fighting" FOR your woman is the right choice. No one is perfect.

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THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR! Thank you! However, this may be a dubious "thank you" in that you've pointed out, to me, exactly why my relationships fail. I have read this post probably a dozen times over now and the idea about me "shutting off" with people I care about (ie. girlfriends) is spot-on! To be 100% honest, and you guys have no reason to believe me, but when my last ex dumped me a month ago, I told her when she was telling me her reasons why "I don't want to sound like I don't care, but I've had this exact same conversation with every single girl who has dumped me." She started to cry, but I didn't mean it and a mean or demeaning way at the time, it was just train-of-thought.

I feel like I've had the same fights, same talks, same breakup talks with the same girls over and over and over again. Whether the girl is 23, 26, 28, 37, white, indian, european, whatever, they all have the same qualms with me.

I think your post was exactly what I needed to read. I thought the same things, but was never able to articulate them in such a succinct and concise way. I'm actually quite floored now that I think about it.

Thank you!

EDIT: Upon reading it over a few more times, I think you're also right about the fact that I keep a lot inside. Growing up, even though I was a good athlete, if I played poorly, I basically got grounded. It's tough when you're 12, 13, 14 years old and you feel as though your dad won't care about you if you f-up in a baseball game. Because of that, I think you're right, I learned not to care about people close to me not being kind to me. I just shut it out. I was an only child and really had 1) no recourse....what was I going to do? fight my dad? and 2) no one else to talk to about the problem.....i wouldn't dare bring it up to my mom.

I can vividly recall just chalking up feeling down about things to "whatever it'll pass". Another think you're right about is the idea that I have accepted that I can't fight with those who "love" me, even if they treat me like **** like some of my gf's have. The biggest paradox of it is that my ex told me that it confused her how I could be so quietly arrogant about soo many things which she found sexy, yet I would never display that kind of arrogance with her when she got upset at me. I don't think I have ever once raised my voice to a gf. Most of my relationships last about a year and change and then end because I think, by that time, they realize that they can get away with anything and I won't react adversely.

I also agree that I keep a lot of things inside, a lot of pent up anger and emotional exhaustion from my relationships but get them out on the weights at the gym. Then, when I finally see her at the end of the day, I'm stress-free and kind and nice to her because all those feelings have been left in the squat rack. I'm not even that strong of a guy at all, but I've become addicted to working out the past few years and this is probably why I love going so much. It's hardly the physical rewards, but the mental rewards that I get.

I know I've gone off on a lot of tangents and for that I apologize, but things are really coming together for me.

Jeeper you need to be able to be intimate with those you care about.




It takes strength and a strong Personal Boundary to do that.

You are overcompensating by shutting off so that you don't become 'vulnerable'.

You need to LEARN just HOW to be intimate, and connect DEEPLY with your Woman, and know how to not get walked all over or taken advantage of.

Until you do that, your relationships WILL fail.


You need to forge good bonds with masculine role models.
You need to be able to connect with women , even if you're not romantically interested in them.

You've got a hole where your heart should be.

I'm surprised you've had that many relationships in the first place. You must have good outer game or something.

Women can usually tell if you have a 'disconnected' energy about you.

Interceptor said:

Jeeper you need to be able to be intimate with those you care about.




It takes strength and a strong Personal Boundary to do that.

You are overcompensating by shutting off so that you don't become 'vulnerable'.

You need to LEARN just HOW to be intimate, and connect DEEPLY with your Woman, and know how to not get walked all over or taken advantage of.

Until you do that, your relationships WILL fail.


You need to forge good bonds with masculine role models.
You need to be able to connect with women , even if you're not romantically interested in them.

You've got a hole where your heart should be.

I'm surprised you've had that many relationships in the first place. You must have good outer game or something.

Women can usually tell if you have a 'disconnected' energy about you.

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Again, I think you're right. In terms of my "outer game", my most recent ex told me our first date was the best date she's ever been on. she always maintained that. my gf before her said the first two weeks we were together were the best two weeks of her life.

after that, i guess things go downhill with me. i feel like i never really evolve, or move forward with things like most guys do. i wouldn't say i'm immature at all, in fact, I'm probably more mature then most, it's just that it took me a very long time to warm to my ex's desire to move in with me (at first i hesitated) and she never felt the same way again after that.

i'm actually very much an LTR guy...not in a bad way, but I'm just that guy. i can get dumped out of an LTR and not really get too down and just move on to the next LTR in a month or so. i sorta just find myself sliding into things. i'm not a player, but i just move from girl to girl without much worry. that, in-and-of-itself isn't a very good thing at all I imagine.

to be honest, i think im very good at starting a relationship but terrible at maintaining one. in the last four years i've had three LTR's, all lasting 12-14 months or so with a couple of hookups and one-night-stands throw in between.

Hey JEEPER,

Women need to be lead, guided and controlled like little children. They need to feel the IRON FIST at times as well. They need to be punished, rewarded , pushed away, pulled in and most importantly BE IN YOUR FRAME.

By showing no emotion to them and letting them do what ever they want, you are not CONTROLLING them. Women WANT and NEED TO FEEL THEY ARE BEING CONTROLLED. IF you do not CONTROL, they will run around aimlessly with no direction till they get bored and thus dump you.

Women need to be given RULES. They are to be told to follow these rules or you will walk away.

By having NO REACTION, you are letting do whatever they want. Women don't know what they want and thus get frustrated. Think about leaving a dog on the street. The dog will have no direction. Women need to be directed to respect you. By not laying down the rules and being passive, you are letting them wander free and aimlessly and thus not taking control of the most important dynamic, The FRAME.

If you don't control, she will flee. No two people are of equal FRAME. You must always keep yourself of a higher value. By laying down the IRON FIST, you establish this value and frame. The IRON FIST is the control and rules of the relationship where you direct the woman. YOU MUST ALWAYS DIRECT.

When you stop directing, the relationship will end.

You will never be dumped again. Whether you are interested or not in a woman, always keep the frame and direct. Make the rules and keep CONTROL with your important weapon, THE ABILITY TO WALK AWAY.

You will be challenged. You will be tested. You will always keep the CONTROL with the ability to walk away. She doesn't want to obey, you walk away. She is disrepectful, you walk away. She wants to challenge your MANLINESS, walk away. She want to take control of the FRAME, walk away. When you walk away, do not look back. She will run back and plead to be in your frame again.

Good Luck.

Well OP the basis of a person who's "angry and yelling" is that they have no self-control, if your "problem" is that you don't "yell and get angry" at things that average people do that just means you aren't average.

I wouldn't want to be average either.

Anger = Energy. I see energy as I see money and time, if I just throw it around I'm likely to lose all of it and get little to no returns. However, if I'm careful and pre-plan, I could invest it properly and make it work for me, producing high returns.

All you have is Mind, Money, Energy, Time, and Choice.

Take your free will choice and use your mind to find the best and most optimal use of your energy, which will control your time, which ultimately controls your money, your health, your relationships, etc.

Didn't mean to get off on a ramble, but to answer your question, your "lack of anger" has nothing to do with the fact that you don't "care" it's more that you just don't see a NEED to yell and get angry, and quite honestly there isn't one.

Quite honestly, if your girlfriend wants to leave then she can leave, what's to yell for? There are literally thousands of girls in a 10 mile radius who would love to take her place, she should be the one yelling. The producers of American Idol don't yell and scream if a contestant wants to walk out of the audition, there's thousands more waiting to get in.

Wow guys, I'm really speechless. I'm also a bit sad that I let my relationships get out of control like this. I think that I was at fault in them as much as the women were. My lack of, I guess, desire to control things probably caused a lot of the problems. Many of the women I have dated have all said the same things about me and they've all stayed with me for a good duration. I guess I never moved forward from the initial courting stage to the taking control phase. I've never really had a desire to set the law down for any of them. I felt like they should know how to act by themselves and was genuinely surprised when they didn't.

The main reason I started this thread was because I felt as though my relationship failures were due to my failures as a person rather then the failures of my gf's. I got that feeling from hearing the same complaints/breakup speeches over and over again, almost verbatim.

I think I've dated some really great women, but never gotten the most of out my relationships, which all seem to end after the same amount of time. I guess you should be moving forward stage by stage in a relationship and I don't.

I have been fortunate enough to basically be able to attract a new woman each time without much lag in between. There was a time in college where I really didn't want a serious girlfriend, as I think we all feel at one time or another in our early 20's, but whenever I've wanted a LTR, I've been able to start one.

Thanks for your input guys and please keep it coming if you have any other ideas. It's gotten to the point where it's something that has been weighing on me.

guru I think your post is of a great perspective, but I actually think that's what most of the problems are in relationships and really why people get hurt, cheated on, divorced, etc.

When you try to control anybody BUT yourself, you become non-human and more robotic of some sorts, you *think* you are the ultimate ruler but instead you are just the one being ruled.

A true free person only seeks to control "his world" women aren't your property nor are they your world. I believe that the best success you have with women is when you "aren't trying to control them."

Instead you are controlling your positive mind, your view of the world, your feelings, and having a great time. Women want to be apart of your world at that point NOT because you are controlling them, but instead because when they are with YOU the "controls" put on them COME OFF.

Society, parents, friends, media, etc. all want to control people. The most enjoyable people are those who don't seek to control you, they are just existing and enjoying their space, you come to them to enjoy in the enjoyment of just existing.

Don't get me wrong, you should have a "I'll walk away" from disrespect attitude but don't be so internally focused on looking for "trouble." I would instead stay in a joking mentality, enjoying the space, and if "disrespect" arises I typically would laugh it off and continue my enjoying of the space (in other words, I'm focusing on Controlling myself)

props to interceptor. :rockon: bang on the money.

i say this becuase you DO get passionate and emotional over things like sports. and the reason is that you feel safe doing so. i'm pretty sure you weren't allowed to get emotional towards your dad or he'd just rip on you even more. or if you did get emotional, like i say, you'd just get ripped on even worse.

so what you've learned is that people will hurt you. and the best way to cope with that is to always be prepared for it. and the only way to 'always' be prepared for it, is to never fully invest yourself in anyone.

trust me, i know what you are talking about. i grew up with a dad just like yours. it creates a TON of bullsh*t issues within you. and just like you, i was a madman when i played sports - when i tackled someone in football i'd hit them like a freight train. or if i was playing road hockey in the winter, i'd dive in front of frozen tennis balls (which is like getting hit with an frozen baseball). it wasn't so much anger, but i was PASSIONATE to win.

even today, in the corporate world, i accomplish things that others are stunned at. because im tenacious, i want to WIN. i love being challenged and rising to the challenge.

if i play online games (which i dont do much anymore) i'm one of the biggest sh*t talkers, because i WANT my advisary to put everything he has into beating me.

but when it comes to women, like you, i can be very apathetic. and while it serves you very well in the initial stages, because being in control of your emotions defuses a lot of initial sh*t tests, at some point the woman expects to see your interest level rise. she expects to see you wanting more. unfortunately, with me, as time goes on i seem to want less.

and i do believe this response is the function of being raised in an emotionally abusive situation. you NEVER want to go back to living that way - so you learn to not care about people. because life is much easier if you don't care. when you don't care you can't get hurt.

but what you have to realize is that the abuse you suffered growing up is damaging your life today. you are obviously an individual with a lot of natural passion for life, as exhibited by your emotions when playing sports. and its unnatural for you not to be able to express who you are in a relationship.

i'll go a little deeper as well. somewhere along the line you have convinced yourself that you don't deserve to be happy. that the trade of is in order to protect yourself emotionally from other people, you don't get to be yourself around them.

but it doesn't have to be that way. you can get excited about your relationship the same way you get excited about sports. but heres the key, and get ready because i think this analogy will help you a lot....

when you get excited about a woman, yes, there is a possibility she is going to use that against you. but so what? just like when you are playing sports, theres the possibility that someone on the other team is going to cheat. maybe they will throw an elbow in your face when you are going for a rebound.

now, if they cheat once, you call them on it. if they cheat twice, you REALLY call them on it. if they cheat three times, that's it, you stop playing ball with them and find a new set of guys to play ball with.

same thing with women. just think of women the same way you'd think of sports.

now another problem i think you have is that i think you worry about losing your temper with these women. worry about behaving like your old man.

its very difficult for men who have been abused, because women's mind games remind them of that abuse. and they tend to over react and fly into a rage. and that will destroy a relationship in the blink of an eye. so a man has to learn to put up with a certain amount of 'abuse' in terms of being disrespected by his woman when her emotions get out of control. but when i say 'put up', that doesn't mean he shouldn't stand up for himself. it just means that its going to happen. when a woman isn't getting as much attention as she thinsk she should get, she will often throw a tantrum of some sort - create drama. 90% of women do this.

anyway, all you have to do is treat women like you do sports. when she throws an elbow at you, you grab the ball and say 'time out', and you let her know that her behavior is unacceptable. if she keeps elbowing you, then you stop talking to her. and, like you have already experienced, she will come back to you and be highly apologetic.

now, having said all of this, let me tell you something. there are women out there who know how to handle guys like you. who understand what you've been through, and who will go out of their way to create a high level of trust with you in the relationship. when you meet one of these women you will slowly start to trust in people again - and as a result will become more involved.

its not an easy transition though. you've become very use to shutting people out. feeling strong emotions for another human being might actually feel painful to you. so take it slow. and when you aren't sure what to do, try to remember that a relationship is no different than a game of basketball. play hard, and if the other team cheats, address it. but don't stop loving basketball just because of a few people cheat.

similarly, don't not be passionate about women just because you've been abused by your father.

Holy ****. Wow. I wish I started posting on here YEARS ago. I really never thought I had that many problems, but everything you say makes prefect sense. I never liked to use the word "abuse" because I feel as though a "man" can't be abused. I also have always associated abuse with physical punishment, rather then emotional. When I was a kid, I guess you could say that I was emotionally abused. I mean, even now I feel guilty using that phrase because I really did have a wonderful childhood and had every opportunity afforded to me. I am very close with my family and in all honesty, I'm positive that there are people in the world today that are really suffering from true, destructive abuse, not the verbal poking I received as a child.

I think you make an outstanding analogy between women's mind games and the abuse I might have received as a kid. I really felt the same sort of, well, shame is the best word for it, that I had when my gf's would get mad and throw fits that I felt when my dad would get mad and throw fits. Often, their fits were over something inconsequential and his fits were over me missing a free throw or throwing an interception. (Oddly enough, my parents never yelled at me with school, where they were always supportive, just sports).

I've often told gf's when they ask me, that I don't yell because I never wanted to turn into my old man. I don't really have all that much respect for him, I mean, I love him dearly and talk to him every day, but I've often assured my most recent ex (who got to know him pretty well) that I would never raise my kids the way he raised me. It was something she was worried about and something I agreed with.

Another thing I felt a long time ago in terms of defending myself with gf's is that when they throw a fit, I almost feel guilty fighting back. Since you've gone with a bunch of sports analogies, I guess I'll use one myself:

I went the University of Miami (don't want to start a huge CFB thread but...) and in 2001, we beat the University of Washington 65-7. They felt we ran up the score, but I always thought that when the #1 team beats the #10 team 65-7, it's not running up the score. Now, had we done that to Murray State, then that's running up the score. The difference? A defenseless opponent. It proves nothing when you're already bigger, faster, stronger to pulverize a weaker foe. However, when you're nationally-ranked and have the same caliber athletes, then you can't get the score "run up" on you.

The same goes for women. Yes, when she yelled or got mad, I took it. I tried to calm her down and talk her back to reality, but it usually took her storming out and then thinking things over before things got better. I knew she was in the wrong a few times and did nothing. Why? I always felt that it was chicken **** of me to do so because I'm bigger, stronger and can yell louder then her. What is that proving? To me, any man who would yell back at his gf/wife was cowardly. The fact that you can overpower someone by yelling louder or saying even harsher things seemed to prove little because you were doing it to someone weaker.

That said, I've gotten into my fair share of scraps on the basketball court, in intramural sports in college and even in and around HS. Why? Because if someone my own size who is a man, pisses me off, then something will be done about it. No questions asked. It's a fair fight. I might get my ass kicked, but it's a fairer fight then to try and demean or belittle a woman.

Only after reading your posts above do I realize that I was allowing her to run all over me and set a bad precedent that allowed her to think such behavior was acceptable.