Fr: Sh!t Tests

Even knowing what was going on i still failed miserably to this sh!t test..

So at my job we were suppose to go out for a celebration dinner because I hit record numbers this month for my firm. Unfortunately it did not go through as expected so i told my gf we would go out for ****tials when i arrived home.

so when i get home, shes dressed and sitting on the couch reading her book.

Me: so you ready to head out?
her: yeah..there is this new mexican restaruant around the corner..?
me: yeah that sounds good.

..i sit on the couch next to her to chat for a sec before we head out.

her: mhmm. i dont know if we should really spend money going out. we always spend to much when we go out
me: very true. well, why dont we grab a gameboard and bottle of wine, chill and save some dough?
her: thats a good idea

..we sit on the couch for a bit longer chatting, then i go upstairs to get out of my shirt and tie and head to the store. i come down and start putting on my shoes.

her: you are going to wear those boots??
me. (confused) yeahh..we are only going up the street
her: yeah but why not tennis shoes? why boots??
me: it doesnt make a difference what i wear. are you ready to head out?

..she ignores me and continues to read her book. felt disrespected so i head upstairs and open a beer and watch the game. after i finish my first beer i head back down to grab another. shes still on the couch reading.

her: well, do you want to go get dinner from some where?
me: you said you didnt want to spend money on food tonight? you have no idea what you want do you?
her: well, yeah i know i said that, but im hungry.
me: okay, so this is what will happen, i got ready to go once and im not about to get dressed again. so figure out what you want, ill pay for the wine and you get what food you want. but im not headin out

..we discuss what she and i want to eat for a bit.

her: i dunno, maybe we should eat in and just go get the boardgame.

..at this point im getting upset. she is so unrational. i tell her how she never knows what the hell she wants and makes everything so complicated i grab my beer and finish watching my game.

10 minutes later she comes up and says to me "i know i never can make a decision. but you are always so nonchalant. just MAKE A STAND sometimes and say this is what it is period.

none the less ..she was right. and it sucked more that she realized it. point of this thread is, sometimes even when you know how to handle things, you get complacent and blind. definetly a learning lesson.

just wanted to share..

Lesson learned: Do what YOU want to do. It's her decsion to go with you or not.
You're losing the edge, as you realize.
Don't lose the "edge", man.

She even told you to "make a stand". dude. She's doing you a favor.

Also, don't lecture her. No whining, *****ing, or moaning.
Ever.

Don't become upset by anything she says or does. Keep your cool. Like a rock. Seriously.
She's starting to realize thatyou are getting lax, and complacent the ole' "I dunno, what do you wanna do?" syndrome.


Don't lose your edge,man.
A woman ants to enjoyu her life together with you.

She's in your world now.
She wants you to call the shots.

Whay aren't you calling them?

You had your warning. Be careful here, man.

She may even start "pulling out" emotionally if you keep this up.

thanks for sharing too.
Good luck.

words well spoken...

didnt realize what was unfolding unitl she said that to me. Most of the time you dont get the "hey, MAN UP" spill. so that was a shock to me.

sometimes its a "catch 22". I mean as far as what we did with our evening, i could care less. I was okay with staying home and watching the game. I also didnt care if we went out. However, i definitely shouldve made a concrete decision and stuck with it either way.

I can expect some other sh!t storms coming this way and just make sure that i am not falling into this black hole of AFCism.

My girl is the type to push buttons. she wants a man to take charge and be the man, but she tries to wear the pants if you let her, and with great pride. Shes a strong women, which in turn leads to being strongly opinionated.

Most of my past LTRs have been more submissive and take the backseat were as this current one will be the first to jump in the drivers seat unless the right person tells her to move the f**k over.

here is the crux of the issue...

yes, she behaved like your typical woman 'should i wear the green shoes or the yellow shoes? if i wear the pink dress the green shoes work best, but if i wear the orange dress the yellow shoes are better. so what shoes should i wear?'

the CIA uses this confusing line of questioning in their interrogation techniques.

so that sh*t is on her.

now for your sh*t. you are mistaken (i believe) when you chalk this up to you not leading. that was not the problem here.

her: well, do you want to go get dinner from some where?
me: you said you didnt want to spend money on food tonight? you have no idea what you want do you?

that was the problem. you basically called her an idiot. now, as guys its easy to miss the insult in there. we think we are just stating the obvious - its not really an insult to call someone an idiot if they are being an idiot right?

well with women it doesn't work that way. remember what RT says, women communicate covertly (ie. they expect you to read between the lines). the flip side of that is they assume that you are communicating covertly also (even though you aren't, at least not consciously).

so when you said 'you have no idea what you want do you?' she took that as 'you are a complete and total moron aren't you? i mean, only a moron doesn't know what they want."

then towards the end she busted your balls by telling you to be more decisive. this is her way of deflecting her inability to make up her mind. the problem is NOT that you were indecisive (i mean, we're talking about ordering supper here! theres nothing wrong with reaching a concensus on this or have a discussion on it), the problem wsa that you basically called her an idiot (without actually using the words).

you can be as decisive as you want and it will never fix anything if you throw out little barbs at her.

and to be fair, her comments on whether you wear boots or shoes was the same kind of thing. it was a covert statement of 'what are you? an idiot? are you so dumb that I have to tell you what to wear on your feet?"

anyway, if you want your relationship to be healthy then the two of you need to be aware of your communication style.

while it won't destroy you in the short term, keep communicating like that for 10 years and see how much respect you still have for each other.

Yeah, I don't know why I didn't bring that up too.
Re reading it, I realized that she did get back at Daven, She felt belittled, so she came right back at him to cut him down to size too.

beware of vindictiveness and those "little barbs" you two throw at each other.

Once that sh*t starts to happen, you will have a "relationship" in NAME only.
Don't give her "ammo" or "reasons".

Tread carefully...

joe ... i did not see it like that until you just opened my eyes.

She is a very indicisive person when it comes to small things and i always call her out on it and lo and behold i always get some form of recepitation that seems completely ouf of no where IE: why are you wearing THOSE shoes??

very easy to miscunstrue..
Very good post.

DavenJuan said:

joe ... i did not see it like that until you just opened my eyes.

She is a very indicisive person when it comes to small things and i always call her out on it and lo and behold i always get some form of recepitation that seems completely ouf of no where IE: why are you wearing THOSE shoes??

very easy to miscunstrue..
Very good post.

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most of us were raised in households with this kind of behavior. as a result, its so natural to us that we don't even realize we are doing it (or the effects it has on our interpersonal relationships).

when left unchecked it really becomes a death by a thousand cuts. each cut doesn't seem like a big deal, until one day you look at your relationships and its a bloody mess beyond repair.

you would be utterly amazed at how easy it is to keep a relationship going when you don't insult the other person. and its also amazing how few people are able to not be insulting.

most people are VERY insulting to their significant others and they don't even realize it. heck, attend any social gathering and you'll see women covertly insulting their men in front of everyone. and the women have no clue they are even doing it! but look at the man's expression and he damn well knows he's being made a fool of.

Why are you living with a GF at 26?

Rollo Tomassi said:

Why are you living with a GF at 26?

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ive heard this a thousand times on the board...

let me ask you RT...is there a right answer to this question?

I have found out no matter what response i give it will never be justified because im 26.

DavenJuan said:

Most of my past LTRs have been more submissive and take the backseat were as this current one will be the first to jump in the drivers seat unless the right person tells her to move the f**k over.

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Man she is one big problem, isn't she. You do realize that life with this "woman" will always be drama filled,antagonistic and adversarial ,dont you.
THis is NOT a strong woman - strong women pull hard IN THE SAME DiRECTION AS YOU, not against you.. Your woman is a 'trap-setting trainer of hoop jumpers'.
Why does she do this ? Who knows, but it has no place in a healthy relationship.
I'm tempted to type "NEXT" but I figure that you truly believe (like a few others on this board) that these tests are part of a woman's natural MO.and that all you need to do is to 'read' these tests and respond in a manly manner. I disagree .They are common in women who have emotional problems and their purpose is not to test you ,it is to DEFEAT you into submission -to gain power over you by ambushing you in a swirling current of confusion and inconsistencies. IN other words MINDFVCKING for no legitimate purpose.
Ask yourself - do her tests EVER enhance your relationship. Do you EVER feel good about her 'testing " you . What good ever comes of these tests ?
WE both know the answer, dude.

jophil28 said:

Man she is one big problem, isn't she. You do realize that life with this "woman" will always be drama filled,antagonistic and adversarial ,dont you.
THis is NOT a strong woman - strong women pull hard IN THE SAME DiRECTION AS YOU, not against you.. Your woman is a 'trap-setting trainer of hoop jumpers'.
Why does she do this ? Who knows, but it has no place in a healthy relationship.
I'm tempted to type "NEXT" but I figure that you truly believe (like a few others on this board) that these tests are part of a woman's natural MO.and that all you need to do is to 'read' these tests and respond in a manly manner. I disagree .They are common in women who have emotional problems and their purpose is not to test you ,it is to DEFEAT you into submission -to gain power over you by ambushing you in a swirling current of confusion and inconsistencies. IN other words MINDFVCKING for no legitimate purpose.
Ask yourself - do her tests EVER enhance your relationship. Do you EVER feel good about her 'testing " you . What good ever comes of these tests ?
WE both know the answer, dude.

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every relationship, every STR, every female friend of mine seem to carry or possess an undefinable trait which you have described above.

Is my women illogical sometimes...yes
is there problems that arise sometimes...of course

I am not making any excuses for her nor will i ever, but i think you are getting the impression that i am miserable and kindve just going along for the ride and that is not the case.

as far as your comment around the sh!t tests.. Do i feel good about her testing me, the answer is no i dont. however these tests exsist with every women i have known.

Do i think these tests ENHANCE my relationship...yes. I thnk subconcsiously or consciously, there is a pass / fail factor. and it will either enhance the relationship or detiriate the relationship. Either way, it is a benefit.

A good relationship will be a give and take, with the man taking the lead. This means that you should make mutual decisions on stuff like this, but you as a man need to know when to push things in a certain direction (most of the time).

That said, it sounds like this particular chick might need to just be TOLD what's gonna go down.

Well I think the right answer to this lies somewhere between Jophil's and DavenJuan should've stood on his first decision to go to the Mexican restaurant.

I'm a little confused by Joekerr's reply. DavenJuan didn't insult her at first. She sh!t tested him then continued to test him. He actually realized what was going on and took at stand a little late. He manned up and got upset or obliquely insulted her as Joekerr said, but damn that was after she sat there and ignored him for quite awhile. That was disrespectful of her and another test in itself. This goes back to the last story about the diary and I said she disrespected him. Again this girl disrespecting and testing him too much was the problem then too.

Notice she said he doesn't take a stand on decisions. See she has doubt, she was going to keep testing to test how much she could "contol" him, such as, put on tennis shoes, change the plans again to go to the restaurant, etc. Then if he had jump through every hoop her attraction would be drop.

I don't see it as a give and take, giving taking was what got him into the mess in the first place.

Double post. Nah I posted to the wrong thread

Next time, ignore what she says, and tell her to come along.

At the boot stage, i would have said:

'yeh i am wearing these boots, they match my tan, now get off your as* and lets go already'.

If she put up some resistance i would have said.

'Look i could stand here and you could sit there, but my stomach is about to motivate me to come over to you and slap that backside into action, so come on already'.

When a girl starts creating drama, i play it off, i tell them what to do but i do it in a way that makes light entertainment of it.

If they persist, which they normally dont, i just keep telling them what to do.

I take this as a sign the women wanted to be lead, that is all, you should have told her i.e lead her, this is what most of them want anyway.

I dont mind giving girl options but when they start to fumble over those options, i take it has my que to take the 'lead', not add to the drama by going off in a oof, if anything i will laugh at her need to be all pathetic, before i did that.

ketostix said:

I'm a little confused by Joekerr's reply. DavenJuan didn't insult her at first. She sh!t tested him then continued to test him. He actually realized what was going on and took at stand a little late. He manned up and got upset or obliquely insulted her as Joekerr said, but damn that was after she sat there and ignored him for quite awhile.

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he didn't insult her first, but engaging her on her level (ie. covert insults) gets you nowhere. if anything it plays right into her hands. hence why she was able to then turn it all around on him and blame him for the situation becaue he wasn't assertive enough.

but i dont believe it had anything to do with him being assertive or not. the situation was what it was because both of them started taking little covert pot shots at each other - her with shoes and him pointing out that she can't make up her mind.

this is just normal wear and tear that most relationships endure. what im saying though is that you don't have to endure it when you realize that you are engaging in it and that all it does is lead to a battle of wills - where both parties kind of pout until one or the other decides its childish and reinitiates communicaiton.

the problem is that women know its childish and will often reinitiate communication first, but in the form of pointing out how the male was to blame. at which point the male, being sick and tired of the bickering, just says 'yes dear' and tucks his tail between his legs so there can be peace again.

the key to having peace is not to take these pot shots. to not engage in it yourself and to not allow her to do it to you either.

joekerr31 said:

he didn't insult her first, but engaging her on her level (ie. covert insults) gets you nowhere. if anything it plays right into her hands. hence why she was able to then turn it all around on him and blame him for the situation becaue he wasn't assertive enough.

but i dont believe it had anything to do with him being assertive or not. the situation was what it was because both of them started taking little covert pot shots at each other - her with shoes and him pointing out that she can't make up her mind.

this is just normal wear and tear that most relationships endure. what im saying though is that you don't have to endure it when you realize that you are engaging in it and that all it does is lead to a battle of wills - where both parties kind of pout until one or the other decides its childish and reinitiates communicaiton.

the problem is that women know its childish and will often reinitiate communication first, but in the form of pointing out how the male was to blame. at which point the male, being sick and tired of the bickering, just says 'yes dear' and tucks his tail between his legs so there can be peace again.

the key to having peace is not to take these pot shots. to not engage in it yourself and to not allow her to do it to you either.

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Well any "potshots" came much later and from her first after she tested him and tested. I think it had everything to do with him being assetive or not. Her testing and disrespecting had nothing to do with any potshots he took after the fact. I don't really think he went to the level of insulting and potshoting her really in the first place.

Whether she's testing him because she has doubts because he's not assertive, or whether she getting revenge for past potshots he might have made or some other reason, regardless this definitely looks like classical testing to me and he didn't handle it right. That's the main thing.

maybe she wants nice clothes. i hate girls without high helled shoes for example and diss my gf is she doesnt wear it.

DavenJuan said:

I have found out no matter what response i give it will never be justified because im 26.

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It's not the monogamy at 26 so much as the living together at 26.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #4
NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren't married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.

You are utterly powerless in this situation. NEVER buy a home with a girlfriend, NEVER sign a rental lease with a girlfriend. NEVER agree to move into her home and absolutely NEVER move a woman into your own established living arrangement. I'm adamantly opposed to the "shacking up" dynamic, it is a trap that far too many men allow themselves to fall into. My fervor agianst this isn't based on some moral issue, it it simple pragmatism. I know a fellow right now who is in the pit of misery with a girl he signed an apartment lease with for a year and has had to basically live with his ex for the past 5 months and wont get out of the lease until May. If you live with a woman you may as well be married because upon doing so every liability and accountability of marriage is then in effect. You not only lose any freedom of annonymity you commit to, legally, being responsible for the continuation of your living arrangements regardless of how your relationship decays.

I should also emphasize the point that when you commit (and it is a financial committment) to cohabiting with a GF you will notice a marked decrease in her sexual availability and desire, trust me on this. All of that competitive anxiety and it's resulting sexual tension that made your single sex life so great is removed from her shoulders and she can comfortably relax in the knowledge that she is your ONLY source of sexual intimacy. Putting your name on that lease with her (even if it's just your name) is akin to signing an insurance polcy for her - "I the undersigned promise not to fukk any woman but this girl for a one year term." She thinks, "if he wasn't serious about me, he wouldn't have signed the lease." Now all of that impetus and energy that made having marathon sex with you an outright necessity is relaxed. She controls the frame and she's got it in writing that it is for at least a year.

Just don't do it. Relationships last best when you spin more plates or at the very least keep each other at arm's distance. Look how this applies to your situation here.