The Myth of the Quality Woman

The other day I was talking to a friend of mine about women.

We were talking about women who fall into the category that most people on here would call "low quality".

I asked him if he believed that these women were the "rule" or the "exception", and we both agreed that the overwhelming majority of women fall into this category. I'm not talking 60% here. I'm talking well over 90%. Probably more like 98-99%.

So what defines a woman who DOES NOT fit into this category?

First and foremost, INTEGRITY. I firmly believe that women as a whole DO have a moral code. They establish what they believe to be right versus wrong. However, they also have a coping mechanism that allows them to completely circumvent any guidelines they have set. It's called "Do it now, justify it later". They can allow themselves to do pretty much anything because they know that they can always find a scapegoat, something external on which they can focus the blame.

There are other factors that define the rare woman, but the underlying theme behind most "low quality" women is a lack of integrity, so why dig any deeper?

Most people on here agree that The Soulmate Myth is exactly that- a myth.

What I am proposing is that there is another myth that is created and perpetuated not by women, but by us MEN.

See, women are mostly to blame when it comes to the belief that there is "The One". But men are the ones to blame for the belief that women are generally "good", as in they would tend to adhere to a stricter moral code than men do. This is completely false.

We all would love to believe that the wonderful woman we just met is "different". Who wants to think of their girl as a $lut or a h0? But I think that the most of the time we are simply deluding ourselves. Even if she hasn't banged the football team or engaged in multiple orgies, even the most devout christian woman harbors some of the same fantasies that the "$luts and h0's" do. All it takes is the right guy to push the right buttons and she's going to act out on her desires. And guess what? you might just happen to be dating her when that other guy comes along.

Guys....you wanted a "Lady in the street and a freak in the bed"? Well, you got it. Kind of. You actually got a "Lady in the street and a freak when you aren't around".

You asked for it, you got it. just not in the way you would have hoped for. Cause that would be like having your cake and eating it too, and we all know that doesn't happen very often.

I am either privileged or cursed (depending on how you look at it) that I have spent a lot of time around a variety of women over the past couple of years. I have learned a lot from interacting with everything from strippers to high income professionals. It has taught me that there is a very fine line between "good" girl and "bad" girl, and the side that we normally see isn't necessarily the "good" side.

So keep your eyes open, fellas. It takes YEARS to figure out what kind of woman you are really dealing with. Don't let your pride and optimism get the best of you.

Well the way I see it is women act in a manner consistent with how ever they want to at any given point. They don't have a sense of right and wrong, fair play or even a conscious the same way that most men have. They're just very good at deceiving others and even themselves. But hey that ties back into not really having a conscious.

STR8UP said:

So what defines a woman who DOES NOT fit into this category?

First and foremost, INTEGRITY....


So keep your eyes open, fellas. It takes YEARS to figure out what kind of woman you are really dealing with. Don't let your pride and optimism get the best of you.

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Oh and they do.

I dont have as much life experience as some of the guys here, but one thing i have learned about women is they have an innate ability to decieve a man; more so than fellow men could decieve each other, if that makes sense. Or, men have the succeptibility to be decieved by women, depending on how you look at it. But i like the former.

Now im not a misogynist, nor do i think that all women are essentially good at heart, at least no more than any man. While I am a staunch believer in the polarity of the sexes, i also remember that we (men and women) are HUMAN, and neither is fundamentally above the other. Some folks here take the natural role of a man (leadership, strength, wildness) and distort it to reflect a fundamental dominance over women, as if men are slightly higher beings. This is dangerous thinking, for a few reasons. A)- It suggests that the host of this beleif system has been significantly burned, abused, or suffered some sort of emotionally scarring experience when their beliefs were still young and pliable. B)- This type of thinking only sets a man up to be further decieved, and because he sees women as inherently inferior to him he is blind to some of the feminine wiles that a more mature, balanced perspective would recognized.

But i digress.

I couldnt agree more on the integrity issue. I think that integrity is more of a natural quality in men, meaning it is a product of both our genetics and our upbringing. Women are raised differently, treated differently in social matters, and are obviously cognitively assimilar to men. I know i am completely generalizing here, but i think that is what makes the 'quality woman' thing such an apparent rarity. Men, at least the men who frequent this corner of the internet, associate 'quality' with integrity, respect, and consistency of character. And rightfully so, if those are the values we hold in high esteem for our own lives and behavior.

But, like you said, it can take YEARS to discern. Character is not immutable, and in many ways is like the layers of an onion...but i think that underneath all of those layers lies a CORE, a nucleus that influences all of the external manifestations. Can you ever completely know a person?? I dont think so. And i dont think that is what its all about. Its about trusting yourself to make the right choices.

STR8UP said:

The other day I was talking to a friend of mine about women.

We were talking about women who fall into the category that most people on here would call "low quality".

...we both agreed that the overwhelming majority of women fall into this category. I'm not talking 60% here. I'm talking well over 90%. Probably more like 98-99%. .

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Why are you so scared to call them by their proper name?? Can you say, "Hor"?? Say it!!!

STR8UP said:

It takes YEARS to figure out what kind of woman you are really dealing with. Don't let your pride and optimism get the best of you.

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Yeah, I don't have a whole lot of YEARS to indulge in this "audition" and I suggest that you younger guys devise your own "tests" to quailty or disquality a woman who is a potential candidate for an LTR.
I agree that INTEGRITY is key. How do we EXACTLY test and evaluate INTEGRITY and what sort of behaviors are deal breakesr ?

Perahps the guys here need to generate a list.

Here is my contibution.

Branch swinging ..(she is on a mission of ego repair with you until the BBD comes along and then it is - LJBFs)

I agree with the spirit of your post Str8up.

I also like what the old school poster DIESEL said about quality and women.

It went something like "You have to muck through a whole lot of slvts and ****teases to find some quality and even when you find quality there is no guarantee it will last."

The killer problem is in defining what we mean by quality. What yardstick do we use?

1)Someone to marry and have children with?
2)A long-term partner/lover?
3)A purely physical temporary relationship?

I think it very important to FIRST define what you want. This is easier said than done.

I have to ask myself, if I had unlimited resources and could have a steady supply of porn stars flowing through my life, would I have any interest in settling down? The cave man in me says NO.

But since I don't have unlimited resources do I just rationalize to myself that woman A is quality-enough and settle on her......for no other reason than attracting women the dj way does take some work. You can do it, but it takes energy.

As RT says, you paint the target around her and proclaim “BULLSEYE!”.

At my age, I have done all three above and at this moment vacillate between 2 and 3.

On integrity, using this as a yardstick is most slippery indeed. Those with experience here know you can get almost any woman, no matter how “good”, married, and proper to drop that facade surprisingly quickly. If they won't outright fvck you they have no problem with a passionate kiss. I'm still amazed at this. So are these women still “quality”?

I used to have what I would call deal-breakers: didn't want any woman that smoked; tats; piercings; used drugs recreationally. When I was leaning towards number 3 above I dropped these standards and was very surprised to find a few women that did indeed have integrity. They were unstable as hell, but dammed if they have not been there for me when I needed them. I'd never marry one of them in a bazillion years though.

Once you decide what you are looking for the next step is making it happen. I think it too easy to passively debate what quality is.

We DECIDE, we CHOOSE. Like attracts like is a very real universal rule. If you are attracting “low quality” women then you need to look first at yourself. Examine what you want, or even if you know what you want. Then take a hard look at your own “quality”. We may be the pot calling the kettle black.

Colossus said:

I couldnt agree more on the integrity issue. I think that integrity is more of a natural quality in men, meaning it is a product of both our genetics and our upbringing. Women are raised differently, treated differently in social matters, and are obviously cognitively assimilar to men. I know i am completely generalizing here, but i think that is what makes the 'quality woman' thing such an apparent rarity. Men, at least the men who frequent this corner of the internet, associate 'quality' with integrity, respect, and consistency of character. And rightfully so, if those are the values we hold in high esteem for our own lives and behavior.

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If you think about it, integrity is a more USEFUL and practical trait for a man to posses.

Men don't run around thinking about who's eyes they want to scratch out because someone is trying to hit on their girl, they are worried about forming alliances that can help them along in life, and that's difficult to do without integrity.

Last Man Standing said:

Why are you so scared to call them by their proper name?? Can you say, "Hor"?? Say it!!!

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I see you got your exclamation key fixed.

Yippee.

jophil28 said:

How do we EXACTLY test and evaluate INTEGRITY and what sort of behaviors are deal breakesr ?

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Thats the problem. You almost CAN'T.

I am a FIRM believer in the idea that a woman is NEVER 100% satisfied with her man.

She may reach 99%, and I would say a lot of them DO, but usually that's only for a very short period of time. And all it takes is that 1% chance that another guy is going to come along and push the right buttons and there ya go....you have your answer.

So the better you are at maintaining IL the less chance you have of seeing her other side. But you will never ever EVER have a woman that is 100% yours. NEVER.

ok, as usually, im going to take this off in to left field with a bit of a philosophical approach.

first a couple of quick points before my main one.

1) women interact with the world emotively. men interact cognitively. as a result, we speak english they speak french. there are women who emotionally are shallow and superficial and there are women who emotionally have great depth, passion, nurturing, empathy, etc.

let me tell you this much, a high quality woman is worth 10000 times her weight in gold. she will genuinely care and support you moreso than your male friends probably will.

2) i know RT doesn't like the term, but i do believe there are high quality women in the world. i do believe there are women who try to make the world a better place. they volunteer and help people who are in need. they take care of their families, their husband, their children, and ask very little in return. there are TONS of good women who do stand by their man until their dying day.

3) women manipulate because they are the wearker of the two sexes. i've said this many times, the weaker of any two organisms will learn to be very good at manipulation to survive. watch an alpha male around a bunch of beta males - they act like women, suck up to him, etc. i work in the corporate world and its pathetic to watch so many men KISSING *SS with the CEO, and then behind his back trashing him. they are acting JUST like women - or more specifically, they are acting like the weaker of two organisms tends to act.

4) now, for my specific point...

so many guys on here are pinning for hte hb8+s. and this is not going to go over well, but i do believe that the ratios of high quality women drops SIGNIFICANTLY in the hb8+ category.

for a few reasons. one they have a lot more options. which tends to make them shallow and superficial, but even more important they don't appreciate what they have. only a hungry man who has been hungry can truly appreciate the bread he has to eat.

now, why do women who are hb7 and less have a higher ratio of quality women? its pretty simple. most of these women have known scarcity. most of these women have not been spoiled. if anything they have been f*cked and chucked. most of these women would cut off their left arm for a good man (once again, not a doormat, but a healthy functional male).

these women appreciate what they have. they nurture it. yes, they still do some of the typical female sh*t (just like even the best DJ still does some of the typical male sh*t). but on the whole, they are still high quality.

now, across the female population as a whole, we're probably looking at about 10% who are kind, caring, nurturing, empathic - ie. one who would be a good life partner and a good mother.

the rest are mentally messed up to various degrees. it doesn't mean they can't make for good partners, it just means that they only make good partners for certain men.

while i hate going against RT, because he's so insightful, i still hold that there is a spectrum of high to low quality women in the world. and yes, a woman will behave high quality for a while if her IL in you is really high, but in time her low qualities will come out.

one of the problems on here though is that as much as men have 'unplugged' from the matrix, in many regards they are still plugged in. they talk about wanting a good woman, but then really only want an hb8+. they still see women as status symbols and sex objects - 'if i land an hb8+ that tells everyone im da man." - instead of seeing women as life partners. when you start to view women from the life partners perspective, a lot of hb7s start to have a hell of a lot more to offer you than the hb10s.

i hope VU jumps in on this thread. he might be able to add to what i've said so that its more clear.

there are high quality women all over the place. the fact that they dress more moderately, that they are somewhat more shy, that they aren't super flirts, and as a result escape your notice, does not mean they do not exist.

and no, you probably aren't goign to find them in the bars. you're going to find them at the book store, yoga class, the grocery store, work, etc.

and yes, they are hard to find. many of them are taken. as a result maybe 1 in 100 women that you see would qualify as 'high quality'. that's why its sooo important to be able to recognize the signs of a high quality woman, because if you don't knwo the signs, they will just blend in with all the other women and you won't even know you bumped in to one.

STR8UP said:

I am a FIRM believer in the idea that a woman is NEVER 100% satisfied with her man.

She may reach 99%, and I would say a lot of them DO, but usually that's only for a very short period of time. And all it takes is that 1% chance that another guy is going to come along and push the right buttons and there ya go....you have your answer.

So the better you are at maintaining IL the less chance you have of seeing her other side. But you will never ever EVER have a woman that is 100% yours. NEVER.

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i disagree with this notion that all women are cheaters or will jump ship the moment something better comes along. a lot will, but a lot won't also.

and the IL thing isn't a negative. i mean, if your with a woman and your IL level drops you end the relationship as well. why would anyone want to be in a relationship that they don't enjoy?

i dont think this is something men have to be afraid of in anyway. IL is often a mutual thing. its rare that one persons IL is high and the other's is low.

even when a guy gets blindsided, he knew the relationship had gone to sh*ts, but he fooled himself that she was going to stay in the sh*t like he was prepared to do. for most men as long as they are getting laid they could care less how damaged the interpersonal relationship is. but for women, when the emotional bond is falling apart, they won't be around much after that.

and that's fair. whats unfair is that they should pull the trigger when they are done - and most of them wait and wait until they find another guy. that's bullsh*t and the sign of a weak woman.

STR*UP wrote----

you will never ever EVER have a woman that is 100% yours. NEVER.

This is SO true, and all of us would be wise to understand and accept this.

She may say she "loves" you, and she may believe deep down in her very heart of hearts that it is true, and she may tell all her friends she loves you, and she may even stand up in a church and swear before GOD that she will put you before all others and be faithful to you forever ------ BUT -- when she's bored, or lonely, or the wind changes in just the right way, or some guy sparks an interest in her, then she WILL do what she wants do do, and then "back-rationalize" it so that she's not "wrong."

Just be aware of that possibility.

It can happen, and DOES happen.
-
--

aliasguy said:

STR*UP wrote----

you will never ever EVER have a woman that is 100% yours. NEVER.

This is SO true, and all of us would be wise to understand and accept this.

She may say she "loves" you, and she may believe deep down in her very heart of hearts that it is true, and she may tell all her friends she loves you, and she may even stand up in a church and swear before GOD that she will put you before all others and be faithful to you forever ------ BUT -- when she's bored, or lonely, or the wind changes in just the right way, or or some guy sparks an interest in her, then she WILL do what she wants do do, and then "back-rationalize" it so that she's not "wrong."

Just be aware of that possibility.

It can happen, and DOES happen.
-
--

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while this is true, its no more true for women than it is for men!

if yoru wife becomes a fat slob who watches soap operas all day and nags you when you get home, how many years are going to be able to take that before you say enough is enough.

i think its dangerous to think that women are worst than men, becuase they aren't. the reason why we think they are is because so many women keep their feelings to themselves and then blindside their man one day with a divorce.

but if you know the signs that yoru relationship is falling apart you will be able to fix it before it breaks completely and / or you will see the end coming and it won't be a surprise to you.

i love these guys who are getting laid like once a month and they think their marriage is in good shape.

anyway, you are in no more danger of a woman losing interest in you than she is of you losing interest in her.

nothing applies to everyone. some women are pieces of sh*ts, but lots of them aren't.

one of the things that men are bad at is recognizing the efforts women put in to a relationship. if she's making you dinner, dressing up in sexy lingerie, giving you massages, stroking your ego, etc. - she's putting a lot of work in to all that. most guys don't recognize that effort though, and then are surprised when their women say they are being taken for granted.

basically just remember to say 'thank you' now and then and most marriages will last.

No, No No, , joker --- you misunderstand ----



I'm not married anymore, and I DON"T think men are better than women.


BUT, we ARE different, in many ways.

I feel that MOST men take their vows seriously. Not all of us - but most.

And I think that when marriages fail, It's most likely the fault of the MAN, for not BEING a MAN.

However, it is very difficult, in this age of the "matrix," (the really weird way things are in male/female relationships) for a guy to get it "right" -- for him to establish a TRUE "marriage" in the way that will keep a woman interested and happy. There are just too many conflicting pressures.


To clarify, I'm no longer married; I had NO problems with my sex life in my marriage - we got it on A LOT. But that doesn't matter. She STILL ran around. Even though I was f**king her 6-10 times a week. Doesn't matter. I wasn't doing it for her on ANOTHER level. (Sure, she's a freak, and screws around all the time, but let's leave that out of this --- )

You are right, joker , that a man may be as likely to want out of a marriage/relationship as a woman, BUT --- when a woman decides she wants out, she frequently will play a little game and drag a man along. A man CAN'T always tell when she's about to leave. The "signs" you talk about are not always there.


However, overall, I will agree with you that "signs" that you describe are VERY useful early on in a relationship, and if we pay attention to those signs, then we are MORE LIKELY to connect with a "quality woman."

aliasguy said:

I feel that MOST men take their vows seriously. Not all of us - but most.

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Lol. Its so funny how women think this exact same thing about men. I love this site! I love how the men think that WOMEN are evil, because I was always so used to hearing that MEN were the evil ones, the "dogs" and how all men cheat.

For the record, no, not all women are unfaithful.

iqqi said:

Lol. Its so funny how women think this exact same thing about men. I love this site! I love how the men think that WOMEN are evil, because I was always so used to hearing that MEN were the evil ones, the "dogs" and how all men cheat

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That's what I always heard to, "that men are the evil ones, the dogs and how all men cheat." Oh wait, that's all I would hear now if I went any place else but a site like this one.

On here things are mostly presented in a factual, no nonsense manner. I don't think anyone's ever saying ALL women, but most all women are only "quality" for a given period of time and toward a certain guy. Having integrity in any situation and all times doesn't seem to be a trait women posess.

iqqi mocking ketostix in bratty voice said:

On here things are mostly presented in a factual, no nonsense manner...

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God you guys tickle me sometimes!

Many women are capable of developing lasting bonds of integrity with men, just as men are able to with women. The bond a female has with her child, dad or brother is proof. Of course this is a different type of bond than the romantic bond between a female and a male obviously and is what is at question.

The familial bond seems to be programmed into everyone's nature. But what I think it is specifically is being bonded and true to a person because of WHO they are, and not what they can continue to bring to the table and do for you. A family member is irreplacable. To a women a romantic partner is mostly about WHAT you continue to bring to her and not so much about caring who you are. You're easily replacable when a bigger better deal comes along.

It just seems to me it's more of women's nature in romantic relations to seek in a guy for what she can get and not really about who he is as a person. If she can get more from another person then she's gone. It seems like men are interested in a girl for who she is as a person.

What I'm saying is it seems men are more apt to form an almost familial bond of integrity with a woman, whereas women are more inclined to treat it as a business venture for her gain and the man is easily replacable if he stops delivering or a bigger better deal comes along.

ketostix said:

Many women are capable of developing lasting bonds of integrity with men, just as men are able to with women. The bond a female has with her child, dad or brother is proof. Of course this is a different type of bond than the romantic bond between a female and a male obviously and is what is at question.

The familial bond seems to be programmed into everyone's nature. But what I think it is specifically is being bonded and true to a person because of WHO they are, and not what they can continue to bring to the table and do for you. A family member is irreplacable. To a women a romantic partner is mostly about WHAT you continue to bring to her and not so much about caring who you are. You're easily replacable when a bigger better deal comes along.

It just seems to me it's more of women's nature in romantic relations to seek in a guy for what she can get and not really about who he is as a person. If she can get more from another person then she's gone. It seems like men are interested in a girl for who she is as a person.

What I'm saying is it seems men are more apt to form an almost familial bond of integrity with a woman, whereas women are more inclined to treat it as a business venture for her gain and the man is easily replacable if he stops delivering or a bigger better deal comes along.

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Honestly, it seems as if this is really just belying your own insecurities and fear about love and women.

Obviously what you have claimed is untrue. How many stories have you heard of women who won't get out of a bad relationship? With a man who cheats/hits/treats her like crap? This is a very classic scenario. How come she doesn't trade up? Even when he is nowhere near the best looking guy out there? Why does she stay?

Women are emotional, maternal creatures. Believe it or not, its true. You may just be used to dealing with young immature brats and b!tch wh0res, but I see it all the time. The woman constantly "taking care" of her man, while he is really just running game or too immature to even be in a LTR. Its gross! I wish my friends had some self respect or even just some self esteem!

Most women "baby" and coddle their grown men. The man becomes MORE IMPORTANT than her family, and friends.

On the other hand, how stereotypical is it to hear about the man "trading up" to a younger, hotter version of his woman? This happens all the time. Men are constantly looking for something better.

This idea of yours just seems completely backwards! There are superficial women AND men out there. Avoid them!