Another update on the "need advice" topic from below!

Just thought I'd share with you all whats going on with this and give you an update from my original post and maybe some MORE advice!!!

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=129580

Well I think this girl is either f'n with my head or she really wants me back. Since my retreat we still have been emailing each other, cause I had my cell# changed, about what we did wrong in our relationship. It's been two weeks since i broke it off and I was in that "grieving" period and was tyring to get on with my life and get over her. I know I/we are still in the "vulnerable" stage of the breakup but now I just dont know what to do. This was one of the emails she sent me last:

I think right now it is crucial for both of us to show each other what kind of people we really are. I think we both lost sight of that. Its very important to me for you to know im not the bad person you think i am. And i really want that feeling back i had when we were first together. I want that strong, secure, loving, trusting person back that i used to have. I know alot of the way it was in the end was my fault. I do know that, but maybe from a distance you will see who i really am. That i dont want to hurt you and that i want you happy as well. And i didnt mean what i said and you know it! You werent really nice to me either ya know!

She has asked for this distance thing which I agreed to but to me I am feeling worse than I was when I was trying to get over her! I feel like the balls i had to break it off have disapeared. I don't know if shes draging me along so she can get over it easier or if she's actually telling the truth. But this "not knowing" thing is killing me. This was the last email she sent me after I told her about the way she treated me:

Well ya know, I am a cold heartless b1tch!!! hahaha!!! Anyways, I love you, I miss you, and i am hoping it can be more than friends. So you can take that how you want, and i hope you feel the same. I miss my snuggle partner.


I'm actually supposed to see her today around 1pm and I haven't seen her since our break up, even though I live 2 miles from her and our kids go to the same school. I've even been having my ex wife take our little girl to school so I wouldn't run into her. I do miss her but I can't take this not knowing cr ap.
I'm thinking about just telling her today that i can't take this distance thing and that we should just move on.

What doyou guys think?? Other than me maybe being crazy!!

Thanks....

PTC said:

Since my retreat we still have been emailing each other, cause I had my cell# changed, about what we did wrong in our relationship.

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Which is completely counterproductive to your moving on. Notice how you're now sharing the blame with what went wrong.

PTC said:

I think right now it is crucial for both of us to show each other what kind of people we really are. I think we both lost sight of that.

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She's doing an excellent job of "reframing" the situation so you are sharing equal blame, which is also a form of guilt tripping.

PTC said:

She has asked for this distance thing which I agreed to but to me I am feeling worse than I was when I was trying to get over her! I feel like the balls i had to break it off have disapeared.

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This is why you feel worse, you're moving backward and slowly giving her more power over you.

PTC said:

I don't know if shes draging me along so she can get over it easier or if she's actually telling the truth.

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Telling the truth about what? How she'd like to continue using you?

PTC said:

But this "not knowing" thing is killing me.

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It's not that you don't know, because I think you do, it's that you're "hoping" things will be the way you'd like. This is what seperates the strong from the weak. Let's say you decide to take her back (again), you must realize that this shows how weak your character is and you lose even more of what little respect she had before because she knows she can bend your will and that you are otherwise desperate with no other options.

Rollo Tomassi said:

The time and effort you spend dating and developing a new relationship will ALWAYS be better spent than trying to re-start or get back with an old one.

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So true....

I guess I'm looking for an easy way out of the hurting I'm going through. I mean love and affection shouldn't be a "choice" and I think she is trying to turn this whole thing around to make me weak while she decides on what she want to do or until she finds her next victim.
I know as soon as I call her bluff and say fvck this she will be on me like a leech again.
This whole thing has really fvcked with my life. I cant concentrate at work anymore, I cant sleep, I've been taking sleeping pills for two weeks. I even went out of town for three days to a friend of mine's house (female by the way and we always had some kinda thing for each other) but all I could think about was her a ss!!!

Damn relationsh!ts!!!!!

If I were you, I'd concentrate on being comfortable being single for a little while. You have to be able to handle that without stressing yourself. That's not to say you should pass up any opportunities that might present themselves, but start looking inward at what it means to enjoy life being who YOU are.

Don't ever give other people this kind of power over you. You weed people out of your life who do nothing but drain your mental resources (or your wallet in some cases), it's something you get good at over time. This has helped me tremendously in my life, I surround myself with people I find genuine and who add to my life, not take away from it. I know that being a guy means sometimes you just want to pound some nice tail, but don't let that cloud your vision and choose your targets wisely.

Dude, this is as predictable as the sun rising every morning. You are being hoovered and PLAYED for a chump by a disordered woman, all because you Chose to stay in contact with her out of guilt or a combination of reasons. Many folks told you she probably has BPD, the worst possible thing she could have from your vantage point. Read your thread again! You have to STOP ALL communication with her. ALL! Get it? Otherwise you are going to be a puddle of GOO on the floor before she is done with you. Get it? She toys with you. She is trouble and you are no match for her. You lost. But if you want to be this site's Biggest Loser, stay in contact with her. You will Lose. Your sanity and possibly much more.

You have to learn to be alone. Why do you need a woman who devalues you? Women who LOVE you don't make you feel Awful.

this is the advice I gave you. I told you this would HAPPEN and it did. Listen or you will LOSE.

"Your job is to STAY GONE. Figure out what you need to do for that to be reality. But the danger in all of these situations, is right where you are now, After the initial break up. You are so vulnerable To Her at this moment. This is why the most experienced people with this situation always always counsel to minimize contact. If you don't you will only prolong the pain and worse, risk another go around with her that will result in a Worse pain down the road. You need distance. Distance enough to realize that she is No Prize and that you are much better off without her. You don't have the distance to see that yet.

Notice what she did to you with her last text. She made the WHOLE breakup HER idea. See what she said? She said she can't do this anymore. This is what you are dealing with. She is going to be dangerous. If you got back with her there is no doubt she would dump you after a few weeks without even acknowledging that it was your original idea."

persistent exaction said:

This is why the most experienced people with this situation always always counsel to minimize contact.

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Counsel? Sorry but can you explain this better?

I have been trying to do things to get her outta my head. I work out, I run till I just about pass out, I've been going to my best friends house, thats married, to hang out but I dont wanna wear my welcome out. At work as long as i stay busy I'm fine but when i'm not busy this whole thing consumes me and I start pacing the floor! I have my daughter 3 nights a week and that helps ALOT. And I do feel like this site's Biggest Loser because I've let this chick take control of my life which I never, ever thought I would let myself do.

I need to find that ball pump and use it to end this!!!!

Counsel = Advise instruct, etc.

What I mean by that is you are a TEXTBOOK case. You're the patsy here. The chump who lives in her limelight as she does her "thing". I've been through it and many of the guys on this site have as well. In fact it is what Drives many of us to sites like this. The only way you are going to make it through is 100% no contact. She toys with you. She lives for this up and down back and forth relationship. She Thrives on it. It excites her. She creates drama and only feels alive when there is drama. It also drives you crazy. Remember when she told you "I can't do this anymore?" Well its another day and now she CAN do this some more. This inconsistency drives you nuts. But she can't be any other way.

You have all the signs of being addicted to her and her crazy making. I assure you that if you continue with this you will feel worse and worse and you will lose, and not just your sanity. You have to figure out why you think this is LOVE. It's anything but. Love does not make you feel awful and insane. A relationship with a disordered person Does.

You are going to have to block her emails or change your email address. It's Over. Done. History. Time to move on and figure out why you got yourself hooked up with a person like this. You lost which means YOU WON. Because you aren't going to marry this wreck of a person. You may think taking these steps are drastic and overkill but I assure you it isn't. It is what you must do if you are going to stay away from the object of your addiction that will wreck you.

PTC said:

J

I think right now it is crucial for both of us to show each other what kind of people we really are. I think we both lost sight of that. Its very important to me for you to know im not the bad person you think i am. And i really want that feeling back i had when we were first together. I want that strong, secure, loving, trusting person back that i used to have. I know alot of the way it was in the end was my fault. I do know that, but maybe from a distance you will see who i really am. That i dont want to hurt you and that i want you happy as well. And i didnt mean what i said and you know it! You werent really nice to me either ya know!


Well ya know, I am a cold heartless b1tch!!! hahaha!!! Anyways, I love you, I miss you, and i am hoping it can be more than friends. So you can take that how you want, and i hope you feel the same. I miss my snuggle partner.

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so your excuse right now for engaging with her is that you are in a lot of pain?

does it sound like she is in pain? she's calling herself a ***** and laughing about it. she's relegated you to 'snuggle partner' when she was your fiance?

i mean, COME ON dude - she's not even doing a good job of snowing you over. if she was good at this she would be acting like a mature nurturing woman to suck you back in. she's not even doing that.

the tactic she is using is beyond basic. she is one of those people who think that the best way to resolve a problem is to forget about it, act like it never happened.

so what she is trying to do is regress your relationship with each other back to when it was good. basically 'lets forget about all this. ok, i'll take some blame for it, so now we can forget it ever happened. lets just engage in selective amnesia and go back to how things where in the beginning.'

as far as manipulation goes its pretty unskilled, and you should kick yoruself in the nuts for letting such a rudimentary manipulation tactic effect you so much.

the reality is that this has nothing to do with her ultimately. you dont want to be alone. you're like a starving man who will eat out of a trash can.

but the irony here is that you are only starving becuase you refuse to leave the alley. walk a block and there are 15 restaurants that will serve you a great meal.

anyway, i dont know if she is consciously tryign to manipulate you. a lot of this sh*t is unconscious, which is why it comes off as being so genuine. because, in a way, it is - women lie to themselves. someone who is lying to themselves will appear as though they are telling the truth - they don't show the signs of a liar.

but make no mistake, whether she is fooling herself, or just trying to fool you, she is not handling this in a mature, honest, forthcoming manner (even though she states thats what the two fo you need to do! hehe, gotta love the hypocricy). she is basically trying to sweep all the issues under the carpet, pretend they dont exist, and lure you back in with promises of 'good times'.

oh, and lastly, and this is just my personal rule of thumb, i don't date women who are self professed b*tches.

i've learned in this life that people often will tell you exactly who they are. they do it in s self depricating manner though, and often make a joke of it, BUT they are being much more serious than you realize. when a woman tells me she is a b*tch, i take her at her word - because i'll tell ya something, a woman who isn't a b*tch would never joke about being one.

and the last thing i need in my life is a b*tch.

persistent exaction said:

Dude, this is as predictable as the sun rising every morning. You are being hoovered and PLAYED for a chump by a disordered woman, all because you Chose to stay in contact with her out of guilt or a combination of reasons. Many folks told you she probably has BPD, the worst possible thing she could have from your vantage point. Read your thread again! You have to STOP ALL communication with her. ALL! Get it? Otherwise you are going to be a puddle of GOO on the floor before she is done with you. Get it? She toys with you. She is trouble and you are no match for her. You lost. But if you want to be this site's Biggest Loser, stay in contact with her. You will Lose. Your sanity and possibly much more.

You have to learn to be alone. Why do you need a woman who devalues you? Women who LOVE you don't make you feel Awful.

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Yep this is BPD behaviour to the core.

Its called hoovering where they suck you back in with a bunch of sappy seemingly sincere emotional bullsh!t.

You should check out some BPD websites like BPD411 and such. They have testimonials of what people went through with hoovering and other battle tactics these BPD's use.

Also there's another post here I'll get you to read and I'll not only post the link here but I'll edit in the hoovering email that got the poster to go back with his BPD girlfriend so you can see how conniving and manipulative they are.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80966

And here is the email she sent him...

"Hey Birthday Boy!
Happy 19th Birthday. I hope you had a great day and that you enjoyed your birthday dinner! Thank you so much for always being there for me. You are my problem solver. You’ve taught me a lot about myself. I love spending time with you and I’m so glad we met (even if it was random….: -)) I’ll never forget turnabout or prom. Those were two very incredible evenings. Before you leave I’m going to beat you in bowling! No more losing! I will miss you very very much! Don’t forget about me. I will never forget you and all the wonderful times we shared. Thanks for being a loving boyfriend and caring friend. I’m always here if you need me! I love you! I miss you! Happy Birthday!

Love, Girl with Borderline Personality Disorder
XO"

No offense PTC,

but you changed your number then still email her ....real power move man I bet she is scared now, or more likely her ego has been inflated about how much of an effect she's had on you and how pitiful that action really was....

I think she is trying to turn this whole thing around to make me weak while she decides on what she want to do or until she finds her next victim.

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you're only victim if you have no choice my friend, it is your life right ?

This whole thing has really fvcked with my life. I cant concentrate at work anymore, I cant sleep, I've been taking sleeping pills for two weeks. I even went out of town for three days to a friend of mine's house

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whats next a bottle of wine and a trip to the roof, maybe some drunk driving or losing your job due to performance ? wake up my borther you're not on the right track ....

life is about 10% what happens and 90% how you deal with it ...

much to your peril you have chosen to ignore the advice given to you ...

:woo:

Pathetic and disgraceful.

You wanted my advice, so here it is:

PTC said:

Married twice, kids with two different dads, parents divorced, cheated on her husband, twice cause she "thought" he had cheated on her and one big one was her jekyl and hyde personality. She could be the sweetest person but when she was wrong about something or was in an arguement she was crazy scary,...throwing stuff, cussing,..arond her kids no less. In fact that was the final straw in this relationsh!t. I didn't want my little girl growing up with someone like that. I feel sorry for her kids. Deep down she is a good mother to them in a mother kinda way but you just don't throw raging fits with every other word out of your mouth is fvck.

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This was from your last thread about this wretch. I want you to copy and paste this into an MS Word document (or whatever you use). Make the font a big san serif one, about 30pts and in red. Print it out on a color printer if you have one and tape a copy of it to your bathroom mirror and the back of your front door. READ IT EVERY TIME YOU GO OUT TO MEET THIS BPD B!TCH! Then make a screen capture of it and turn it into your computer's wall paper. READ IT EVERY TIME YOU EVEN CONSIDER REPLYING TO HER EMAIL!

The only reason you are still hung up on this psychotic is because you have NO other options. Get out and sarge, spin more plates, spin any plates! The best way to get over someone is to get under another one. You are her mark, she is conning YOU. She sees in you the perfect combination of circumstances. You're 41, you have a kid, you have a job, you're reasonably responsible, but yet have zero options or potential competition for her and she KNOWS this. SHe knows this because she comes up with lines like this, knowing she'll get away with them:

Well ya know, I am a cold heartless b1tch!!! hahaha!!! Anyways, I love you, I miss you, and i am hoping it can be more than friends. So you can take that how you want, and i hope you feel the same. I miss my snuggle partner.

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You are her 'cuddle b!tch' now. She knows you are because she's had so many in the past (like the 'friend' from your first thread) it's not even a challenge for her to figure it out now. So lets disect this a bit further, shall we?

I think right now it is crucial for both of us to show each other what kind of people we really are.

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Translation: She realizes you've called her bluff now and she wants to plant the seed of doubt into you by giving you cause to second guess your decision to cut her off. The mark of a master manipulator.

I think we both lost sight of that.

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Translation: She will not accept complete liability. She implies YOU as at least a partial accomplice in the whole affair. BTW, this is a classic characteristic of a sociopathic mentality.

Its very important to me for you to know im not the bad person you think i am.

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Translation: Because she is pathological she needs affirmation from others that she hasn't been at fault for anything, least of all your rejection of her. This woman is ego-invested in her own self-affirmation, so your rejection of her becomes a problem for her that she is compelled to solve at the risk of her actually having to confront her own faults.

And i really want that feeling back i had when we were first together. I want that strong, secure, loving, trusting person back that i used to have.

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Translation: On the surface of it, this appears as a kind of addmission of vulnerability; an openess of sorts. In reality this is a 'white flag', surrender tactic. "See? I really am human afterall." She then plays it masterfully by quoting the feelings she values and ascribes them to you in order to make her surrender complete, but also to again plant that "maybe I was too harsh with her" doubt back into your head.

This is a very important message because it belies her true intent in manipulating you. How many of her former BFs and husbands did she say were "strong, secure, loving, trusting" men before you? I'll come back to this later.

I know alot of the way it was in the end was my fault. I do know that, but maybe from a distance you will see who i really am. And i didnt mean what i said and you know it! You werent really nice to me either ya know!

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Translation: Again, she reinforces a sociopathic need for acquital of guilt, and failing that, at least a sharing of it. If she can't convince you using emotional ploys, she will implicate you as an accomplice in order to get you comply with her wanting to drag you back into her net of drama. If both methods work, all the better for her.

Now, it's time to unplug from the Matrix PTC. There are two issues at work here. One, you are at best an rAFC with few, and probably no, valid options or prospects. You're 41 with a daughter and a divorce. You're most likely at a stage in your life where you expect things should be normalizing, but you find yourself back in the game and have a needing to look for something stable like you thought you had married. You saw this woman, she was relatively hot and worked you good in bed. This is exactly the angle she's using to lock you in. She's read you coming from a mile away. This is why she uses terms like "strong, secure, loving, trusting", she knows it appeals to guys like you.

She is also at an age where, for a woman, it's an all or nothing proposition. She manipulates because it's what she's good at, and with every birthday she has, it becomes that much more urgent she secure a long term provisioning with a man. Don't be this woman's next meal ticket, don't be a martyr. You don't deserve it and your daughter certainly doesn't either.

rollo is bang on the money.

i'm telling ya, if guys truly understood how much sh*t they put up with simply becuase they are afraid of being alone it would blow their minds.

which is why spinning more plates almost always pulls their head out of their *ss as they open their eyes and think "wait a second. why do i need to put up with this womans bullsh*t when i've got another right over there who treats me well?"

its very hard for most guys to rationally assess what a woman is doing to them when they are so emotionally invested in hoping that things are a certain way (ie. she's not screwing me over).

So true....

Thanks Rollo, and Joekerr31, you guys pretty much nailed it on the head.

And I was that plate spinning person before I met this girl! I was seeing different women, which one in particlar has got brought up constantly during our relationship because I had sex with her when I had sex with this chick, but of course she was still married at the time but I got blamed for being in the wrong.
I was by myself meeting different women and along came this girl. I was the happiest I had been since before my marriage. The first night she came over to my house we had sex, while she was still married but supposedly seperated, which I thought was kinda weird. I mean I have had one nighters but this girl claimed she really liked me so the sex on the first night kinda made me think. And I kept telling her that I DID NOT want to get involved or any LTR and she just kept saying " It's ok I know you don't but one day you will" Of course this was after she would come over and bang me then go back to her husbands house and tell me she was sleeping on the couch.
And you guys are right, I dont need this girl, she needs me. Not trying to brag but I consider myself a good looking guy. I work out, I run 12 miles a week and I never have had a problem going out with great looking women. I am a bit on the shy side so it is a little bit harder for me to actually "meet" women but thats it.
Today I met her at work cause she asked me to take her to the airport because she had a hair show to go to, so while we waited on her plane we sat in the bar and had a drink. She kept asking me what was wrong with me, she could tell something was wrong. She told me I looked pale! She kept looking at me like like she missed me and talking about the good times we had and why our relationship was messed up. She was actually being the nicest I've seen her in a long time! I was wanting to tell her before she got on the plane but I just didnt want to upset her( i know I'm a wuss) but I AM going to tell her when I pick her back up Monday night when she comes back. I just want to do it person and not over a cell phone, email or text message.Right before she left I told her jokingly that she thought she had me by the balls, and she laughed which she probably does in a way, but you all have made me realize how stupid I have become, how I've become this girls pet with a leash around my neck.

So Monday night I am going to tell her I am done for good, I know you guys dont believe me but I am. I'm gonna be polite as possible and tell her that we will never be the same couple we were before and its just not going to work out. Two poeple shouldn't have to decide or make a choice if they want to be together or if they love each other. I thought I was in love with her, why? i dont know...

I will let you all know how it went. Thanks again for all your "counseling" and help. I really appreciate it

Rollo Tomassi said:

You saw this woman, she was relatively hot and worked you good in bed. This is exactly the angle she's using to lock you in. She's read you coming from a mile away. This is why she uses terms like "strong, secure, loving, trusting", she knows it appeals to guys like you.

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So true....

I unplugged from the AFC matrix because the alternative future is this

Maybe PTC should be offered more information about how disordered women "hoover " their victims. This topic deserves more open discussion . Perhaps a new thread ? Maybe some other sites to peruse .
Until you (as a man ) have been "hoovered " by one of these 'female impersonators' ,you have no clue about how truly evil these women can be. They are callous manipulators of the first order. They have no conscience, no ethics and no morals.. However they present " as cute as a bug " and their sex games are breathtakingly magnetic. Danger !!

joekerr31 said:

anyway, i dont know if she is consciously tryign to manipulate you. a lot of this sh*t is unconscious, which is why it comes off as being so genuine. because, in a way, it is - women lie to themselves. someone who is lying to themselves will appear as though they are telling the truth - they don't show the signs of a liar.

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I am going to post about a different topic soon, but this is one of the points I want to make.

Women often BELIEVE the crap they make up. Just like a salesman who is brainwashed into believing in an inferior product to be able to sell it, she has herself convinced that she's 100% genuine. That's why you have to be able to see the forest for the trees in able to spot her BS.

i've learned in this life that people often will tell you exactly who they are. they do it in s self depricating manner though, and often make a joke of it, BUT they are being much more serious than you realize. when a woman tells me she is a b*tch, i take her at her word - because i'll tell ya something, a woman who isn't a b*tch would never joke about being one.

and the last thing i need in my life is a b*tch.

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That's funny!

One of the wisest things I ever heard someone say is "Half of every joke is the truth".

When I was dating the older chick last year, she joked with me a couple of times about being a "slut", which i consciously recognized as being one of those "half truths" because people just don't say stuff like that if they don't feel that way about themselves.

I'm assuming that she was referring to the fact that she was seeing this other dude from her hometown. I didn't pay it more than a passing thought because she was free to do whatever she wanted, we weren't exclusive. But those words still ring in my head and it just went to confirm what I already knew was true.

PTC something else important you need to know about BPD's is when they don't get what they want some of them can become so enraged at the guy who won't give in to them that they will hurt themselves then call the cops and say the guy did it or they will call you nonstop threatening and harassing you then one morning you wake up and its you who gets served the restraining order.

So what I advise you to do is breakup with her in a public place where there are witnesses and if possible begin recording your calls she may make to you.

I think you said you changed your number but if there is any friend of yours she knows or anyone you both know she'll put on a sad act with crying of how much she misses you blah blah blah to get that friend of yours or whoever has it to give her your new number.

So yeah proceed with caution and make sure you keep records and get witnesses to events wherever possible.

You don't want to be branded a rapist, stalker or abuser just on some sick woman's word do you?