Advice??

Hello,
I've been dating this girl(30) for about a year and a half now and I have a question about our relationship. Also we started dating towards the end of her marriage/divorce.

This girl has a lot of "guy" friends cause for (1) she is a hair stylist and (2) her brother died about the same time we started seeing each other so alot of his friends still talk to her.

Well my question is about this one guy friend in particular, that I happen to know as well. We saw him out one night and she told me that she was friends with him and that he was friends with her brother. But the weird thing about it is that he never came over to speak to her nor did she go over to talk to him. Well later that night( around 2am)while we were in bed having sex he calls her,..twice! She didn't answer the phone. Well being my paranoid/observant self I get upset at her wondering why if he is such a good friend why did they avoid each other in the bar and why did he try and call her at 2 in the morning. She tells me his ex wife was there with him and she didn't wanna start anything.
Well that was about 6 months ago and they still talk to each other here and there,...text, cell phone and myspace. And one other thing we are engaged now.
Well last week, her , her kids and i take the boat out on the river and of course the beach where everybody goes, he is there. So I make sure and watch her. We head over to a mutual friends boat and talk to him for a little while and again she makes no point in talking to him. So once again I question her about it and she gets pissed off saying they waved and yelled hello across the boats that were tied up. Of course I didnt see it so I blow it off AGAIN. She even tells me later that she talked to him and asked him to call me to let me know that they are just friends. Of course he doesn't call me.
Well Friday night we're out and he sends her a text to call him while we are eating. So I make her call him back in front of me. She calls him and tells him on our way to a bar and he tells her he was just calling to see if her and her little girl would like to go to a movie with him and his little girl. Of course she says no but AGAIN I express my concern about this guy and she defends herself again saying there is nothing goin on with them, and that she does not have those kinda feelings for him and he the same. She said they've even been on his boat before, just them, at night and he never made a pass at her. Of course she was married then.

Do you all think I am being overkill about this? He knows we're engaged too. I keep telling her that although she may not have intentions to be with him I think he does. I have found myself checking her cell phone to see if he calls her. And of course there are times when he calls her or she calls him. Or he'll text her telling her "Call me". And yes the reason I am bit paranoid is because at the end of her marriage she cheated on her husband. But according to her she said that it was only because he cheated on her and their marriage was pretty much over anyhow.

What should I do?

Thanks

You're being a little paranoid. Stop going through her cell phone, and whatever you do, don't tell her you know stuff because you went through her phone.

If he wants her but she doesn't want him, it is probably for a reason. She probably found him too needy and jealous. Ironic, isn't it? Now it is you is acting insecure like girly man. Stop it now!

invite him and his daughter over for dinner. if she has banged this dude i guarantee you that she will move heaven and hell to make sure the two of you are never ever in the same room for an extended period of time.

just tell her 'listen honey, why don't we just invite frank and his daughter for an afternoon barbeque. the kids can hang out and i can get to know him."

if she's over reacts and comes up with 1000 reasons why its not a good idea, then something fishy is going on.

if she agrees and the dude comes over, trust me, you'll be able to sense if he's banged her in the past or if anything fishy is going on in the present.

as for over reacting - its hard to say. without more details i'd say yes. but if shes given you reasons not to trust her in the past, then id say no.

sheer paranoia i have to say. What is it lately with people going out with girls they don't trust. She hasn't given you any strong evidence to believe that she is cheating. So why all the mistrust? If you can't trust her what are you doing getting married to her?!!!

vorbis said:

sheer paranoia i have to say. What is it lately with people going out with girls they don't trust. She hasn't given you any strong evidence to believe that she is cheating. So why all the mistrust? If you can't trust her what are you doing getting married to her?!!!

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It's not that I don't trust her it's just that I am 41 yrs old and very observant and I'd like to be sure before I get married again.

joekerr31 said:

if she agrees and the dude comes over, trust me, you'll be able to sense if he's banged her in the past or if anything fishy is going on in the present.

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Thats just it. Her defense is always how good friends they are and how he was a friend of her brothers. But when they get together and I'm there they act kinda weird. Of course it usaully him more than her.

It's like that day on the river, she went up and hugged some guy that was a friend of hers, not near as good as friend as this guy, but she made no attempt to walk 10 more ft. to talk or even hug him?

I don't know, maybe I am bein paranoid. But I will use your advice about the dinner thing.

Looks like they definitely had something going on in the past, yet she probably broke off and he doesn't like it. It that bothers you, you should find out if they were involved.

Are they messing around? I would guess not, but first find out what their real past was.

Your behaviour (ie paranoia) will prove to be self-destructive. Look at this from a binary perspective:

1.) She has/is screwing him.
2.) She has not screwed him.

If it is #1, he clearly had some good game because she is contacting him behind your back. And if you keep up the paranoid pushy/clingy/needy sh!t she'll find it quite easy to go back to him.

If it is # 2, well he's looking more and more appealing every time you open your mouth now. On the one hand she has you being paranoid pushy/clingy/needy and on then there's the other guy - who's laid back. If you keep it up #2 will eventually become # 1 now won't it.

Plus I smell a rat here. You are eluding to facts very sparsely. She was married but it ended in a divorce. Part of that ending was her cheating to get even. That speaks volumes to high quality woman now doesn't it. And she has kids so its a single mommie situ. And she allows guys to call/text her when you two are together. And from the most recent post, it sounds like you've been married at least once yourself.

I think more details are needed. I wouldn't be surprised if she married quite early (18-22) and her kids are in the 5-10yr old range. If so, her interpersonal skill set would be that of a high school chick. And as one of the responses stated, funny how she finds herself in another relationship where there is [the drama of] distrust swirling about.

Your gut always goes off for a reason.

If you are absolutely 100% sure she is the best one out there for you, in every way, then don't you have to let this paranoia sh!t go and trust her?

And if you are having doubts about her being your Ms.Right, then your gut is twitching for a valid reason.

Can you assure us that she has been a perfect saint from the day you two met. Can you tell us that she hasn't banged other guys while you've dated. Ca you tell us that she has always been clear about her feelings to you. Can you tell us that she has never been manipulative, resorted to technicalities, no half-truths, no anonymity. Has she been totally devoted to you and putting you first at all times?

Also, how long have you been engaged and what were the circumstances? Do you currently live together? How long (and how many women) between your recent divorce and seeing this girl?

Sinistar said:

Y
Your gut always goes off for a reason.

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this is probably the best advice anyone can get. you might not know why your gut is going off, and it might not be going off over what you think it is going off over, but if its going off then something is typically wrong. inviting him to a bbq will give you a better chance to understand what your gut is trying to tell you.

my gut says that she banged him but a long time ago. id also bet that he is her back up vine. she ain't cheating, but she probably has him in the wings in case 5 years down the road things dont work out with you two, shes got somewhere to swing to.

the bigger issue here really is that clearly you do not trust this woman. she might be great, but part of you believes that given the right opportunity she will screw you over.

you need to figure out whether this is a hang up you have (ie. unable to trust anyone) or whether this feeling is there because your intuition is aware of a deeper truth surrounding this womans personality and character.

Her actions and words are not congruent. Neither are his. You're engaged??? c'mon bro, you'll be divorced within 10 years and 7 of those years will be hell for you. :cheer:

Sinistar said:

Can you assure us that she has been a perfect saint from the day you two met. Can you tell us that she hasn't banged other guys while you've dated. Ca you tell us that she has always been clear about her feelings to you. Can you tell us that she has never been manipulative, resorted to technicalities, no half-truths, no anonymity. Has she been totally devoted to you and putting you first at all times?

Also, how long have you been engaged and what were the circumstances? Do you currently live together? How long (and how many women) between your recent divorce and seeing this girl?

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Well she did have some hang-up with her ex for a little while but that has been takin care off. I've actually spoke with her ex and he assured me they were done. Other than that I assure u she hasn't banged any other guys. We're around each other all the time and when we're not we usually keep in contact. And yes she has made it clear to me how she feels about me. She even knows I have some paranoid feeling still and she has agreed to wait as long as it takes for me to get over them and I am ready to marry her.

As far as myself we have been engaged for 4 months and there were no circumstances. She was kinda hinting to me for about 3 months proir to me purposing to her about the marriage thing but thats about it. We do not live together and I have been divorced for 3 years and I've been serious with 2 girls since.

There is some excellent advice in this thread.
You gut is your guidance system -ignore it at your peril.

You say that you and she dated at the end of her "marriage/divorce" -Huh ?
Did you date her while she was still living with her husband? If "yes" then you have a "branch swinger ".
I just know that HER version of the events in her marriage will portray her as an innocent victim of a BAD/Cruel/ cold and Callous/ Cheating/ Abusive HUSBAND ( a universal female sob story it seems)
HOWEVER, the fact remains that she swung over to you while she was still married to another guy. Secondly, you said that she cheated at the end of her married because her husband did too. Did you mean that she cheated with you or was there another guy as well.
MY 'gut' says that she is a 'branch swinger' -this does not automatically make her an unfit person for a marriage BUT is is a possible sign that she recruits or keeps other men "in the wings " in case her current situation fails.
She has learned that one way to survive an emotion storm is to recruit another guy, so this other guy may be her insurance against a relationship failure with you ... It is called "looking after #1 " ...

YOu need to resolve this doubt of yours about her .
I like the idea of inviting him over for a bar-b-que . BUT, pay attention to what the other advice on this thread has said -if she gives you all the reasons WHY that is a bad idea I would be adivising you to be VERY suspicious.
Inviting him into your social circle is a reasonable thing for you to do.It makes emotional sense for YOU.
If she and this other guy are pure friends then I cannot imagine why she would have any objection. If she and the other guy have ANY romantic attachment ( and it may not be even as advanced as sex ) then she will not want you and he to compare notes .
Are you willing to walk away (or at least stall the wedding) IF she refuses to invite him ??
Remember, women use words and sex to manipulate men.

joekerr has it correct.

You have to get yourself involved in this "friendship"

Invite him over and get involved. Offer your friendship and see the reaction.

Do you want her? Why dont we just assume the follwing

1. They have hookedup or had sex before
2. They are no longer together/hooking up
3. He probally wants to **** her
4. She most likely doesnt want to **** him

If you keep this up you will drive her away. I agree she should be making you feel better about this but dont you see how your letting this guy dictate your happiness with her, and your overall happiness. She wasnt a virgin when you met, how cares who she was fing, if she is with you now.

Just slow down, drop it,

New twist in this story!!

She calls me up today and tells me she put in an offer to buy a house! This is after I recently bought a 4 bedroom house right before I engaged to her,...we both have kids. She agreed to give me some time after I told her I needed more time because she still had feelings for her ex. But that was 2 months ago and things have been going great lately except for that friend of hers. I told her that was a slap in the face after I went and bought this house and we have actually been talking about finally setting a date. She said she didn't wanna pressure me.

I don't understand women!! Geeeezzzzz!!!

Engaged woman puts in offer to buy her own house = desire or plan to remain independent of YOU.
This woman has a HUGE problem with committment. She loves having OPTIONS and having alternatives to her main game.
Look at it coldly -she has an alternative guy to you - and now an alternative house to the one you recently bought.

My gut and my head tells me that she is NOT a suitable marriage candidate.
If you marry this woman she will manage and arrange her life to have YOU as just one of her OPTIONS instead of committing to you as the 'main event.'
I have been married to a woman like this back in 1992. for 10 months . She wanted a marriage that resembled one long date -just a romance, not a relationship.. She did not 'get' committment and treated our marriage as if it were just another one of her several other emotional investments.
I will repeat it - your woman is NOT acting like a fiancee. She is acting like a high schooler who is playing the field and enjoys creating a world where she gets to pick and choose .
Did she discuss her recent house purchase with you BEFORE she submitted an offer. No ?
Why do you think that was ? Answer- because she wanted to NOT be accountable to you.... NOT GOOD !!!

( And BTW the woman that I was married to was also a hair stylist !
I am wondering - is your woman from an original family in which her Dad walked out, left or cheated or drank or in some other way was not really THERE )

PTC said:

Hello,
I've been dating this girl(30) for about a year and a half now and I have a question about our relationship. Also we started dating towards the end of her marriage/divorce.

This girl has a lot of "guy" friends cause for (1) she is a hair stylist and (2) her brother died about the same time we started seeing each other so alot of his friends still talk to her.

Well my question is about this one guy friend in particular, that I happen to know as well. We saw him out one night and she told me that she was friends with him and that he was friends with her brother. But the weird thing about it is that he never came over to speak to her nor did she go over to talk to him. Well later that night( around 2am)while we were in bed having sex he calls her,..twice! She didn't answer the phone. Well being my paranoid/observant self I get upset at her wondering why if he is such a good friend why did they avoid each other in the bar and why did he try and call her at 2 in the morning. She tells me his ex wife was there with him and she didn't wanna start anything.
Well that was about 6 months ago and they still talk to each other here and there,...text, cell phone and myspace. And one other thing we are engaged now.
Well last week, her , her kids and i take the boat out on the river and of course the beach where everybody goes, he is there. So I make sure and watch her. We head over to a mutual friends boat and talk to him for a little while and again she makes no point in talking to him. So once again I question her about it and she gets pissed off saying they waved and yelled hello across the boats that were tied up. Of course I didnt see it so I blow it off AGAIN. She even tells me later that she talked to him and asked him to call me to let me know that they are just friends. Of course he doesn't call me.
Well Friday night we're out and he sends her a text to call him while we are eating. So I make her call him back in front of me. She calls him and tells him on our way to a bar and he tells her he was just calling to see if her and her little girl would like to go to a movie with him and his little girl. Of course she says no but AGAIN I express my concern about this guy and she defends herself again saying there is nothing goin on with them, and that she does not have those kinda feelings for him and he the same. She said they've even been on his boat before, just them, at night and he never made a pass at her. Of course she was married then.

Do you all think I am being overkill about this? He knows we're engaged too. I keep telling her that although she may not have intentions to be with him I think he does. I have found myself checking her cell phone to see if he calls her. And of course there are times when he calls her or she calls him. Or he'll text her telling her "Call me". And yes the reason I am bit paranoid is because at the end of her marriage she cheated on her husband. But according to her she said that it was only because he cheated on her and their marriage was pretty much over anyhow.

What should I do?

Thanks

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i would put a hundred bucks down they have some sort of 'past'.

Does it mean anything.

From your post no.

but i think there are skeletons in the closet.

Should you be concerned 'no'.

your being paranoid, you need to trust she is with you for you and is probably 'protecting' you from something.

In that trust her, she seems fine to me.

there is something going on, i think your detetective mind wants to find out 'what the big secret is'.

but i think in this situation the big secret is in the past, so i would leave it there.

Try to overcome your jelouse emotions, rise above it and show her your a better man and not some looser who gets hung up on other guys.

If she cheats you will have a far better indication of it.

But i would be concerned if they start spending 'alone time' together.
Would i object? no it never does any good if they do, simply observe and make an essesment of the situation.

If you do want to make a point.

why not sit her down at a converniant time and simply ask.

"hey xxx there seems to be something strange with you two i cant put my finger on, is there a past between you two, you should tell me about?"

Thats not being paranoid.

If she gets defensive take it as a sign there maybe still 'something' going on.

Or if she acts like and adult and tells you the truth calmly and simply as an informative response then take what she says 'as the truth'.

When they defensive then to me thats a huge red flag, especcially when the question is not accustational and simply observation and finding out what the deal is.

As for the house thing, how very strange indeed, not planned pritty stupid move tbh, no motivation for it.

I think bro' you need to have a 'conversation' with this girl she is operating on a different wave length then you are, this does not bode well.

i mean questions that i would be thinking and asking are:

Why as she bought and house when i have just bought one, its not like i or her can just simply sell it now is it> what was she thinking?

Why is she acting odd around a supposed male friend?

Why is she still mates with her EX then telling me she still has feelings for him? Am i really comfortable with spending my life with a girl who still panders for her EX even when 'I' am dating her, is that a bit dis-respectful to me? If so why am i commiting to a women who is not showing me 100% trust and commitment? If this is true then what other things are 'out there'? And if there are no other things out there, how do i know, how can i fully trust her based on what i am seeing?

Is she investing the same level of attention to this relationship as i am?

does this seem like a good venture and an happy outcome?


To get enganged is a huge step, from the second post i would be a little concerned with taking this further.

But women have a way to 'suck' you in to there world and no..........................

ADVICE is usually taken at all UNTIL ITS TOO LATE!

I think you are observing some RED FLAGS, i think for the sake of your future i would watch the outcomes over the next few months and i for one would sit her down and 'have a talk'.

Like an adult, there are far too many things so far to simply ignore especcially if your going to commit.

jophil28 said:

( And BTW the woman that I was married to was also a hair stylist !
I am wondering - is your woman from an original family in which her Dad walked out, left or cheated or drank or in some other way was not really THERE )

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...excellent observation!! If there's one thing I learned over many years of dating - women who fall into this category are far more likely to be your branch swingers, attention wh0res, anonymous, half-truth tellers and use technicalities whenever they face situations they don't want (or know how) to deal with like an adult. Don't get me wrong, all women are indirect. But women in this category have that trait magnified about 10x normal And the Cluster-B wackjobs have that trait magnified about 100x. Apologies for the aside

PTC said:

New twist in this story!!

She calls me up today and tells me she put in an offer to buy a house! This is after I recently bought a 4 bedroom house right before I engaged to her,...we both have kids. She agreed to give me some time after I told her I needed more time because she still had feelings for her ex. But that was 2 months ago and things have been going great lately except for that friend of hers.

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... dude your leaking out more details instead of just giving us the entire information dump up front. Clearly the house offer thing is a recent development. However the underlined stuff above is material we could have used. Go back and re-read through other posts similar to yours (and yes there are probably 100's by now if you don't get hung up on the details). The general flow is that the dude (who has a woman in the process of ejecting him) just gives bits and pieces of information. Why? Because if you dumped all the info in one shot, all of your rationalizations and justifications for a incompatible relationship would be hard too stomach.

PTC said:

I told her that was a slap in the face after I went and bought this house and we have actually been talking about finally setting a date. She said she didn't wanna pressure me.

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...would you like a womaneeze translation for that last part:

"I've pretty much decided I'm not gonna marry this guy but I don't know how to say it because I'm wearing his engagement ring, our kids play together, etc. Maybe if I buy my own place he'll just get the hint and let me LJBF him before I have to OVERTLY push him away".

PTC said:

I don't understand women!! Geeeezzzzz!!!

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Yes, you do. You just don't want to deal with the responsibility that comes with your new found awareness.

I can tell you a story. Both my wife and I owned homes before we were married. Between the engagement and the wedding we talked about what we should do. Given the market we decided selling both might lead to an equity loss situation. So it was her place or mine. Her place was closer to work for her, it was the style she liked (smaller and cozyier) and much closer to her friends. There were no arguments just relaxed dicussions. From time to time I could see her feelings take over and she would try and list reasons to consider her place. I guess you could think of it as a sh!t test in some ways. But it didn't take long and one day she said "The most important thing is being together with you." We were very fortunate, her place sold 3 weeks after we were married and she made money to boot. She enjoys this house now. It's twice as big, huge yard, quiet safe neighborhood, etc.

The point to that story. Her feelings and desire to be with someone motivated her to be closer to that person, not farther away - even when a house came into the equation.

I could tell from your first post (lack of details, her being intertwined with other dudes, etc) that you're with someone who really doesn't want to be with you. She's leaving out details until she's made decisions. And she's making unilateral decisions on top of it all. Your gut is quivering because its magnifying the difference in signals between her words and actions. That's what your gut does. It magnifies it for you so you have to at least feel and deal with it at conscious level.

I know this is not easy to hear and all of us have been there (including you) so our goal is not to profit from your misery, rather to help you see things clearly (as we're not emotionally biased in your case). So if you can disengage that emotional overdrive long enough for your MAN SH!T to kick in you too will start to see this logically.

Sounds familiar...

I cant really offer any advice because I am still coming off a dump myself, in which I have been avoiding the truth. When I read the OP's posts I recognized his denial instantly. Newfound awareness at work.

I will say that Sinistar has some solid advice and insight. He had made similar observations and deductions in my recent thread, and, despite my unwillingness to accept what him and others were saying, it was true. My relationship is over.

Hence when I read PTCs posts i could see the writing is on the wall. All i can say is I am so sorry, dude. I couldnt imagine having to deal with this when kids are involved.

joekerr31 said:

invite him and his daughter over for dinner. if she has banged this dude i guarantee you that she will move heaven and hell to make sure the two of you are never ever in the same room for an extended period of time.

just tell her 'listen honey, why don't we just invite frank and his daughter for an afternoon barbeque. the kids can hang out and i can get to know him."

if she's over reacts and comes up with 1000 reasons why its not a good idea, then something fishy is going on.

if she agrees and the dude comes over, trust me, you'll be able to sense if he's banged her in the past or if anything fishy is going on in the present.

as for over reacting - its hard to say. without more details i'd say yes. but if shes given you reasons not to trust her in the past, then id say no.

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I gotta agree with joekerr here. Unless she is a complete sociopath, she will move mountains to avoid an extended get together at your/her home with the three of you. Props to you, joekerr. :rockon: