A woman's 7 year secret

Desdinova

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I pulled this off another message forum. This kind of 5hit pisses me off to no end:

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One of my clients who also happens to be close friend went MIA for most of last week. I called him a few times with out a response from him, so I assumed he was sick and would get back to me when he felt better.

I spoke with him this morning and he was very depressed, apparently his wife of 9 years admitted to him last week that their 6 year old son may not be his.

Apparently she had an affair with a man about 7 years ago for 2 months. He was traveling to the west coast every other week for business at the time, but he never had a clue.

He is upset and fuming mad. He is trying to decide if he wants to divorce, but whats worse he knows that he and his wife need to resolve the paternity question. He really loves his son and part of him doesn't want to know the answer.

He asked for my advice and I said, at this point I would just focus on the marriage issue, is it worth saving, can you ever trust her again, do you really love her. When you are calm and have thought every thing through, you can deal with the paternity issue. It s ben 6 years already, whats another couple of weeks or a month?
 

lee36044

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Desdinova said:
I pulled this off another message forum. This kind of 5hit pisses me off to no end:
Which part ... the therapist advocating AFC behavior or the woman being a typical woman?
 

Ninja Bob

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Man, that is rough. I feel for your friend. The lesson for all men is to go all Maury Povich and get paternity tests done on your kids. Yeah, it sounds harsh, but better safe than played, you know?

How many men getting this kind of suprise is it going to take before other men wise up? Women are more than willing to let you support a kid or a posse of kids that ain't yours and the courts will make you support them if the kids already think of you as "daddy".

I mean, it's one thing to have an affair, but to get knocked up and then have the gall to have your husband support the other man's child? I might be willing to still have a relationship with the kid--it ain't his fault that his mom is a slut.

But her? NEXT!!
 

amoka

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9 years of marriage and 7 years of secret? I'll take the chance and file for devorce if that child is not mine.
 

DoubleA

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She is garbage.

Just tell your friend to keep calm and not do anything impulsive.

Damn, just when I think my situation with the females whack, I hear a story that almost makes me drop to my knees with thanks.
 

Latinoman

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Forget about paternity tests. After all...there is nothing he can do about. For all involve (including the law), the child is ALREADY is (even legally speaking).

So...what he SHOULD do is divorce her due to infidelity. And then fight for FULL custody of the child. Make her lose both: child and husband.
 

Cancerian

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Desdinova said:
I pulled this off another message forum. This kind of 5hit pisses me off to no end:

========================================================

One of my clients who also happens to be close friend went MIA for most of last week. I called him a few times with out a response from him, so I assumed he was sick and would get back to me when he felt better.

I spoke with him this morning and he was very depressed, apparently his wife of 9 years admitted to him last week that their 6 year old son may not be his.

Apparently she had an affair with a man about 7 years ago for 2 months. He was traveling to the west coast every other week for business at the time, but he never had a clue.

He is upset and fuming mad. He is trying to decide if he wants to divorce, but whats worse he knows that he and his wife need to resolve the paternity question. He really loves his son and part of him doesn't want to know the answer.

He asked for my advice and I said, at this point I would just focus on the marriage issue, is it worth saving, can you ever trust her again, do you really love her. When you are calm and have thought every thing through, you can deal with the paternity issue. It s ben 6 years already, whats another couple of weeks or a month?
I was in a similar situation. I believe that your friend should get the paternity test for these two reasons:

1.) For medical purposes. In this age, knowing the medical history of both parents is key.

2.) For peace of mind. If he doesn't, this may plague him for the rest of his days. It would be better to find out that the child isn't his and deal with the pain now, rather than deal with the unknown indefinitely. Either way, for his sake, I hope that the child is his. He should divorce the wife regardless, because I believe once a woman cheats, she will probably do it again. If we won't deal with a flakey woman's BS, we definitley shouldn't deal with infidelity.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Schedules of Mating

What you have here DES is a classic Schedules of Mating dillema combined with proactive cuckoldry.

I've aleady detailed in many prior posts that mate selection is a psycho-biological function that our millenias of evolution has hardwired into both sexes. So internalized and socialized is this process into our collective psyches that we rarely recognize that we're subject to these motivators even when we continually repeat the same behaviors manifested by them. So saying that we're not subject to conditions we're not, or are only vaguely aware of is a bit naive.

It's simple deductive logic to follow that for a species to survive it must provide it's offspring with the best possible conditions to ensure it's survival - either that or to reproduce in such quantity that it ensures survival. The obvious application of this for women is sharing parental investment with the best possible mate her own genetics allow her to attract and who can provide long term security for her and their potential offspring. Thus women are the filters of their own reproduction where as men's reproductive methodology is to scatter as much of his genetic material as humanly possible to the widest available quantity of fertile females. He of course has his own criteria for mating selection and determining the best genetic hosts for his reproduction (i.e. she's gotta be hot), but this criteria is certainly less discriminating than that for women (i.e. no one's ugly after 2am). This is evidenced in our own hormonal biology; men posess 17 times the amount of testosterone women do and women produce substantially more estrogen and oxytocin than men.

That stated, both of these methodologies conflict in practice. For a woman to best ensure the survival of her young a man must necessarily abandon his method of reproduction. This then sets an imperative for him to pair with a woman who will satisfy his methodology. A male must sacrifice his reproduction schedule to satisfy that of the woman he pairs with. With so much genetic potential at stake on his part of the risk, he want's not only to ensure that she is the best possible candidate for breeding with, but also to know that his progeny will benefit form both parents involvement.

One interesting outcome of this psycho-biological dynamic is men's ability to spot their own children in a crowd of other children more quickly and with greater accuity than even their mothers. Studies have shown that men have the ability to more quickly and accurately identify their own children in a room full of kids dressed in the same uniforms than the mothers of the child. Again, this stresses the subconscious importance of this genetic trade off.

Social Convention

To counter this subconscious dynamic to their own genetic advantage women initiate social conventions and psychological schemas to better facilitate their own breeding methodologies. This is why women always have the "prerogative to change her mind" and the most fickle of behaviors become socially excusable, while men's behavior is constrained to a higher standard to "do the right thing" which is invarably to the advantage of a woman. This is why guys who are 'Players', and fathers who abandon mothers and children to pursue their innate reproduction method are villains, and fathers who selflessly sacrifice themselves financially, emotionally and life decision-wise are considered heroes for complying with women's genetic imperatives.

This is also the root motivation for female-specific social dynamics such as LJBF rejections, women's propensity for victimhood (as they've learned that this engenders 'savior' mental schemas for men's breeding schedules - Capn' Save a Ho) and even marriage itself.

Good Dads vs Good Genes

The two greatest difficulties for women to overcome in their own methodology is that they are only at a sexually viable peak for a short window of time (generally their 20s) and the fact that the qualities that make a good long term partner (the Good Dad) and the qualities that make for good breeding stock (Good Genes) rarely manifest themselves in the same male. Provisioning and security potential are fantastic motivators for pairing with a Good Dad, but the same characteristics that make him such are generally a disadvantage when compared with the man who better exemplifies genetic, physical attraction and the risk taking qualities that would imbue her child with a better capacity to adapt to it's environment (i.e stronger, faster, more attractive than others to ensure the passing of her own genetic material to future generations). This is the Jerk vs. Nice Guy paradox writ large on an evolutionary scale.

Men and women innately (though unconsciously) understand this dynamic, so in order for a woman to have the best that the Good Dad has to offer while taking advantage of the best that the Good Genes man has, she must invent and constantly modify social conventions to keep the advantage in her biological favor.

Reproductive Schedules

This paradox then necessitates that women (and by defalut men) must subscribe to short term and long term schdules of mating. Short term schedules facilitate breeding with the Good Genes male, while long term breeding is reserved the Good Dad male. This convention and the psycho-social schemas that accompany it are precisely why women will marry the Nice Guy, stable, loyal, (preferably) doctor and still fvck the pool boy or the cute surfer she met on spring break. In our genetic past a male with good genes implied an ability to be a good provider, but modern convention has thwarted this so new social and mental schemas had to be developed for women.

Cheating

For this dynamic and the practicality of enjoying the best of both genetic worlds, women find it necessary to 'cheat'. This cheating can be done proactively or reactively.

In the reactive model, a woman who has already paired with her long term partner choice, engages in an extramarital or pairing, sexual intercourse with a short term partner (i.e. the cheating wife or girlfriend). That's not to say this short term opportunity cannot develop into a 2nd, long term mate, but the action itself is a method for securing better genetic stock than the committed male provider is capable of supplying.

Proactive cheating is the single Mommy dillema. This form of 'cheating' relies on the woman breeding with a Good Genes male, bearing his children and then abandoning him, or having him abandon her, (again through invented social conventions) in order to find a Good Dad male to provide for her and the children of her Good Genes partner to ensure their security.

I want to stress again that (most) women do not have some consciously recognized, master plan to enact this cycle and deliberately trap men into it. Rather the motivations for this behavior and the accompanying rationales invented to justify it are an unconscious process. I fervently believe that for the most part, women are unaware of this dynamic, but are nonetheless subject to it's influence. For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she's able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring's survival with the best provisioning partner, this is an evolutionary jackpot.

The Cuckold

On some level of consciousness, men innately sense something is wrong with this situation, though they may not be able to place why they feel it or misunderstand it in the confusion of women's justifications for it. Or they become frustrated by the social pressures to 'do the right thing' and are shamed into martyrdom/savior-hood and committed by feigned responsibility to these conventions. Nevertheless, some see it well enough to stear clear of single mothers, etiher by prior experience or observing other male cuckolds saddled with the responsibility of raising and providing for - no matter how involved or uninvolved - another man's successful reproduction efforts with this woman.

The man in this position is (or at the very least interpreted as) a Cuckold. He will never enjoy the same benefits as his mates short term partner(s) to the same degree, in the way of sexual desire or immediacy of it, while at the same time enduring the social pressures of having to provide for this Good Genes father's progeny. It could be argued that he may contibute minimally to their wellfare, but on some level, whether emotional, physical, financial or educational he will contribute some effort for another man's genetic material in exchange for limited form of sexuality/intimacy from the mother. To some degree, (even if only by his presence) he is sharing the parental investment that should be borne by the short term partner. If nothing else, he contibutes the time and effort to her he could be better invested in finding a sexual partner with which he could pursue his own genetic imperative by his own methodology. It is simply not worth his effort to couple with a single mother when compared to a woman without children.

However, needless to say, there is no shortage of men sexually deprived enough to 'see past' the long term disadvantages, and not only rewarding, but reinforcing a single mother's bad decisions with regard to her breeding selections and schedules in exchange for short term sexual gratification. It's important to bear in mind that in this age women are ultimately, soley responsible for the men they choose to mate with (baring rape of course) AND giving birth to their children. Men do bear responsibility for their actions no doubt, but it is ultimately the decision of the female and her judgement that decides her and her children's fate.
 

drmeathead

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i ran into this with my ex. i have good genes. i am tall athletic and smart. good looking too. however my ex went back to her previous. he is a badder boy than i am. think al bundy two years out of polk high. she has said to me many times i wish i could have met you five years from now as she wanted to go have her fun. meaning see what better genes are out there (hotter bad boys) then come back to me and my six figures and upstanding citizen. i told her flat out....go have fun but if you **** another guy dont ever talk to me again. shes a *****.

dude i hope ur buddy is ok over all this. and the kid. the kid is the one that is going to need therapy. trust issues galore. his mom lied to him for months? wow how is he ever going to trust? tell ur friend to still be there for the kid. he may be all the kid has. it wil be tough but wow. help that kid.
 

blueguy

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It may have a biological explanation which makes sense, but so does obesity. Any woman who lacks basic self control is unattractive in my book.
 

insanity

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women and their stupid secrets. thank god i have dual citizenship because if some ho spung that crap on me and we had the paternity test and the kid wasn't mine and the judge said i have to pay up still. i would move all over the place and not pay a dam dime.

i just love hearing the lines my friends tell me when their woman has been unfaithful and she tells them it just happened. how does something like that just happen. then they try the drunk or stoned card and say they can't remember anything but somehow they woke up beside their co-worker. if their sane enough to walk around a bar drunk and keep their clothes on in a crowded place. then how hard would it be to be rational when making the decision to be unfaithful.

one bang all for what? a lifetime of hurt and maybe regret.
if my woman even tried that crap it would be best i didn't find out or her tell me. cause i have never hit a woman in my life . but doing something that stupid would land her a punch in the mouth. that would be justifyable.
 

joekerr31

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this is one of those scenarios where i dont think anyone really knows what to do.

all i can say is that i have a rule in life when it comes to women, one i would probably use in this scenario as well.

when a woman puts you in a 'lose lose' scenario, walk away.

this woman has put him in a lose lose. either it is his kid and then hes trapped with her in his life forever in some manner or another. or its NOT his kid, and to walk away from her he has to walk away from the kid.

it gets even worse. lets say it is his kid and lets say he forgives this woman.

guess what... she aint going to be forgiving herself any time soon and hes stuck with a woman with some serious issues.

there's just no winning in this one.

all we can really say is hopefully guys take notice of this and realize how critical it is to pick a high quality woman - and even more critical it is to be able to distinguish between your run of hte mill woman and a high quality one.

the reality in all this is that its the kid who will get hurt in all this. the only way to avoid that is to stay with her. but that said, i do not believe one should sacrifice their life to save someone else pain.

man, messy messy messy.
 

KneghtRyder

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lee36044 said:
Which part ... the therapist advocating AFC behavior or the woman being a typical woman?
a sign of a good DJ is one who hates women.
 

Latinoman

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this woman has put him in a lose lose. either it is his kid and then hes trapped with her in his life forever in some manner or another. or its NOT his kid, and to walk away from her he has to walk away from the kid.
Read and heard of similar cases in which the Judge made the man pay child support (even if the kid was not his), because of "the best interest of the child" (and the child already thinking the dude is his dad).
 

Rollo Tomassi

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KneghtRyder said:
a sign of a good DJ is one who hates women.
Wrong. The sign of a good DJ is one who understands women's behavior, the motivations for it and responds to it predictably and accordingly.
 

lee36044

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KneghtRyder said:
a sign of a good DJ is one who hates women.
Who hates women? I'm very cynical about their behavior and tend to believe given a choice they will make the wrong ones based solely on their emotions! But hate them? NEVER ... life would be too dull :)
 

Sinistar

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If this dude was my buddy, he wouldn't get it sugarcoated. I would recommend that he MOVE FORWARD with his life. By that I mean separate, divorce and seek joint custody if he still wants to play the role of father (or learns he is the real father).

As a MAN he needs to recognize that she not only cheated, she went on to conceal the outcomes of that choice. And if she's bringing it up now there's probably more going on (ie she's in contact with the other dude, wants him to meet his son, thinking of or has cheated again, etc.)

Why would any healthy, self respecting MAN accept a negative frame once he is aware of it. He wouldn't.

And the son. One day little Billy could possibly find out his real father ain't the one he's calling dad. If so, he'll eventually learn the truth, he's the result of his mother's infidelity and (see footnote).

So the guy in this scenario has two choices. He can teach his son (by his actions) an unhealthy unhappy humility and supplication OR he can teach his son (by his actions) that infidelity is not tolerated in comitted relationships. I think in the long term his son (biological or adopted) has a better chance of being healthy, confident and a more natural DJ (which will benefit his life tremendously) if his father MOVES FORWARD with his life now, explains his decision to his son (when mature enough) and ultimately finds a relationship better suited to him (and his son).

It's a dead relationship, why raise a kid in that atmosphere.

Footnote: One other thing needs saying. The hubby played a part in all this too. Somehow, someway, sometime he lost the frame of being her prize (or never was). He probably knew it (ie married to young, overlooked current behaviours, overlooked past behaviours, changed too much, stop being a bit mysterious, fun, etc.) and expected her to just keep being that same reliable predictable wife when he probably knew deep down that things weren't well. Does that justify her behaviour - HE11 NO!!!. Does it explain her behaviour - HE11 YEAH!!! A MAN is responsible for each of his actions and their corresponding outcomes. My money says he knew this relationship was doomed (or dead) due to a declining desire level before this cheating event and he didn't have the ba11s to act on it then.
 

azanon

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Latinoman said:
Forget about paternity tests. After all...there is nothing he can do about. For all involve (including the law), the child is ALREADY is (even legally speaking).

So...what he SHOULD do is divorce her due to infidelity. And then fight for FULL custody of the child. Make her lose both: child and husband.
I fully agree with Latinoman's advise (divorce her on the above-mentioned grounds). The paternity test is irrelevant for the simple fact that he thinks of this child as his son now, and he's simply not going to abandon his love for him now because of the mother's deception. If he did (abandon his son), he would regret it I think.

But my question is, how the heck did he not suspect it wasn't his? I have a 3 year old boy, and it is blatently obvious this is my son. Per what RT said (about men being able to recognize their offspring), i literally feel like i'm raising a "mini-me". If I hypothetically had conceived him out of a marriage and went to have a faternity test done, they'd laugh me out of the hospital. If i DID have even the least suspicions about it, my son and I would have long ago had a "hospital visit" to clear up doubt.

So his wife really sucks to keep a lie like that from him, but I still think he's a bit naive to not be able to recognize some other man's child. I just think I could do it accurately every single time. Your child only shares 50% of your genes! * sarcasm *
 

Latinoman

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Here is the thing…it has already been SEVEN years. By Law that is HIS child (biological or not).

So, what does he gain by doing a paternity test?

He wins nothing…because

1-he already love the child

2-they have created a SEVEN year bond.

3-If he turns out to NOT be the biological parent…it would still a moot point because he would still have to pay child support

4-If the boy turns out to be his biological son…then the mother can use the paternity test as evidence that “he did not care about the welfare of this child to the point that he was taking a paternity test AFTER SEVEN years!”. And any chances of winning custody would be gone there.

Now…I strongly believe he should divorce her. Then fight for custody (funny would be that if he wins without being the biological father). If she tries to fight him for the custody under the presumption that “he is not the boy’s father”…then, in a way she is pretty much saying that he is not entitled to the boy (and for that matter child support). Furthermore, if she insists on the paternity test…it is clearly obvious that she does NOT care about the psychological welfare of the child.
 

azanon

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Good stuff RT, but i'm not totally sold on the dichomoty good dad's vs good genes part. If we lived back in caveman days, you'd have me completely sold on the idea that the most potent genes are those that yield good-looking, confident, large brutes that possibly have a low brain cell count. However, I give women a bit more internal and subconscious credit that they recogize that in today's world, the best genes will yield higher IQs, along with looks and that physical size is of lesser importance. Further, lacking the ability to commit and stay focused on something (IE: a player) is a detrimental trait from a genetic standpoint, in my opinion, not an asset.

Thus, a good looking, smart, but perhaps AFC dad still has a very strong gene set. There are plenty of AFCs out there that make 6 figures easily and that's how you survive in today's world. Surely, the women of today know this? If she wanted a son that would struggle through school, the "pool guy" would be a great choice to screw * sarcasm *
 
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