FUR: Contact-closing phobia.

Listening to the advice of Desinova on my Developing Habits of Apporaching thread, I'm now trying to beat my contact-closing phobia.

Today, I meet a HB 7 at the bank, and she was talking Polish to another bank person, so I cracked and said "Geeze, is that Russian?", and then they said no, no, "It's Polish", and I said, 'oh really, is that right?' and we all laughed.

I totally didn't contact-close at that point.

I came across other girls around in public, with my dad, like cashiers and stuff like that, but nothing jived - so there was no rationale for any contact-close - after all there has to be a minimal rapport.

The cashier was wearing a 'nose-ring', I could have picked on her, in retrospect, and told her "Hey girl, you've got something on your nose" and poked fun at the nose-ring - and tell her just kidding.

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Total approaches to date: 1 Polish girl at bank.
Failed approaches: Possibly a few at a nearby store, just didn't do it, was around my dad.
Attempted contact-closes: 0
Possibly opportunities for a contact-close: 1 Polish girl at bank - 50/50 chance.

To reduce the threshold of contact-closes - I'm going to limit it to @-closes for the next five girls, and may give out my business card FIRST before asking for their @ on the next two girls to provide a bit of incentive on my end if I feel this is totally difficult.


NOTE: This is a FUR, not a FR, by the time I start getting contact closes both @-#, I'm done with this thread as there will be no more FU to write about. Any tips or pointers, other than what I mentioned are welcome.

Luke Skywalker said:

"Hey girl, you've got something on your nose"

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Haha, you can make me laugh whether you want to or not. Comments; good job on the approach, next time try for a basic conversation "Oh no way, Polish huh? I've never been there, is it cool / you guys ever been / anything like that" Keep up the good work.

Good job Luke, you are learning the ways of the jedi warrior

Always try to flirt a little bit with cute cashiers or waitresses even if you aren't interested, its good practice.

If you are interested, get a short, interesting conversation with strong rapport, then at then after 2 or 3 minutes, use the "I've got to get going, but I should get your number so we can talk again" line.


also I'm guessing the @ is their e-mail address, go for their phone #, worst thing that will happen is they say no, but girls usually don't say no, they will take your number or give you a fake number if they aren't interested. But the majority of times, single girls are happy to give out their #.

Espi said:

Luke, good to see your approach journal.

One suggestion:

Don't chalk anything up to "failed" approaches. I strongly consider you not focus on # closes, either...just the approach...

Every time you get rejected, embrace it and move on...that's why there is no such thing as a "failed" approach. Every time you get rejected, you learn to emrace it, and pretty soon, it doesn't matter much.

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I understand what you are saying - in fact, usually rejections build confidence for future approaches anyway - the thing is, and I'll be frank, I'm too phobic to even get to the point of rejection. I know rejection is a good thing because it simply means it's one less 'no' to a 'yes' outcome.

I'm worried about what other people around the girl may be thinking when I'm approaching, that the girl may think, what another girl around her may think. It's like a Grade 6 world is transposed in an adult world whenever I'm trying to approach, so I'm trying to work on all the 'anxieties'. So today I worked on that specific anxiety.

The last time I 'asked' a girl for her number was in July 2003 after exchanging a business card. I'm not focusing on a #-close - in fact, I didn't even get to the point of asking anyone.

Luke Skywalker said:

I'm worried about what other people around the girl may be thinking when I'm approaching, that the girl may think, what another girl around her may think.

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You wanna know what they are thinking?!? "Man, that guy is ACTUALLY approaching a HB8?!? I woulda done that if I had a pair of balls between my legs..." Most of the time they won't care, they won't know who you are, and chances are, you will probably never see them again (unless you live in a one horse town where nothing ever happens). And as for the girl part, like I said, they don't know you, they don't know where you have been or are going to be, and she may think that you guys are just friends having a conversation.

2 years ago I figured out something that I am only now living up to. I realized that I shouldn't care what other people think because I know I am the man and I am the best, so why should I care what anyone else says?!? Trust me man, if you only take my advice once, take it now. Just keep thinking to yourself "who cares what other people think?!?"

Went to gym today, and saw a Black HB on an exercise machine when I walked inside. I think she tried making eye contact with me when I walked in but I averted gaze and just went into a threadmill machine, and said to myself, let me warm-up for five minutes before approaching her.

Saw a UG infront of me reading a book, so I thought I'd jump ahead a machine, sit beside her and practise on her by asking about the book she was reading. I did that, and noticed she had earphones, and the fact that she was a mature UG.

I got off the machine, walked around the gym hoping people around would not know what I'm thinking of doing next, then I went towards the HB and I saw another HB on a second row of machines beside her. The first HB was Black the other was Asian HB.

I didn't examine the 'age' features of the Black HB, but on retrospect she appeared to be likely over 30, which is a pariah (I can get that off the internet, not worth the risk), and another Asian HB behind her. Confused of which HB to approach first, I just went to a cycle that was one space away from the Black HB, so it formed a Triangle. With apex points of the triangle being myself, the Black HB, and the Asian HB, and then I said, gee, what am I going to do. I cant talk behind to the Asian HB, so perhaps I should move one cycle over to the Black HB.

Then I said, suppose the Asian HB get's jealous that I approach the Black HB first, and suppose other people in the gym are on to me, and know what I'm doing, then what am I going to do? This type of anxiety was building, that I made a deal, to go on the machine next to the Black HB and eject and say, who cares what other people think. I went next to her and ejected and I'm still here.

Great, now although I didn't get anywhere, all I can say is that the gym had lots of mirrors around the walls, so you can see angles of the girls when working out. Despite the fact I didn't really approach anyone, there was eye-candy on the Black HB as I watched her hips and bust go as she was working out on the mirror, and I also glanced at her from the side. Also there was good eye-candy on where someone was bending over on a back-board, where their butt was facing one of the mirror's. So despite I didn't go anywhere - the eye-candy made me feel a bit better.

I hope next time I go to the gym, I'll just approach a girl and cut this nonsence. It's just when I enter the gym I feel so darn nervous, I dont know who is there, I just feel anxious and it takes a while to feel comfortable in that environment.

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Went out with my mom afterwards, saw a Cinnamon HB with two cute dogs, approach anxiety was too high to approach, and the 3 second rule was defeated and I withdrew as my mom called me inside the store.

It was relieving to see that when I left the store, I saw the girl with another Indian guy holding the other dog - after all, if she had a boyfriend, then it would have been a wasted approach anyway - but he could also have been a friend, brother, or even father the way he looked, so I'm not sure if that's even valid. She did look rather young though.

Inside the strore while shopping, I was too engrossed with the Cinnamon girl to make any further approaches, just felt frustrated I didn't approach.

Inside the * other * store, did not really see any HB's.

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Number close chances: 0
Approach chances: 4
Actual approaches made: 0

Good stuff on starting the ball rolling! Now, don't just let it roll to a stop, you gotta keep it going. The more you get it rolling, the easier it becomes.

I'm worried about what other people around the girl may be thinking when I'm approaching, that the girl may think, what another girl around her may think.

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This is always the biggest thing to overcome. I had it a bit easier because I worked at overcoming that when I was in high school.

One of the things that helped me overcome approaching strangers (including women) was looking at the reality of the situation. There is a good chance that the people you approach will never, ever see you again in their lifetime. It doesn't matter what they think because they only have this one brief contact with you, and then it's over.

One more thing that another poster mentioned which is very true, is people aren't judging you because they're too busy judging themselves. They're worried how they're appearing to YOU.

Think about that for a minute. They're busy trying to live up to other people's expectations, including yours! That's why there's no reason to worry about what they're thinking.

I came across other girls around in public, with my dad, like cashiers and stuff like that, but nothing jived - so there was no rationale for any contact-close - after all there has to be a minimal rapport.

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I've always felt like I was c0ckbloced by my parents when I was out with them, even though they wouldn't interfere (most of the time anyway). It just felt embarassing, but then again my parents have always done their best to make me feel like 5hit. That's why I could never approach or number close with them in my vicinity.

But anyway, it's good to see you going out and gaining some experience! Keep it up, and you'll get better at it!

One more thing to add about your recent post:

just felt frustrated I didn't approach.

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You notice how much WORSE you feel when you don't approach? You don't get that feeling when actually do it. In fact, when you do approach a woman, tell yourself how fantastic you are, and give yourself a good pat on the back for doing it. Hell, let out a big smile, a bit of a laugh, and embrace that great feeling that you accomplished one more approach!

This will help associate a GOOD feeling with approaching instead of a bad one.

ROFFL! Contact-closing phobia. What will they come up with next? Also, please, I'm beggin ya! Stop talking about fvcking Star Wars!!!!

Rocko said:

....
2 years ago I figured out something that I am only now living up to. I realized that I shouldn't care what other people think because I know I am the man and I am the best, so why should I care what anyone else says?!? Trust me man, if you only take my advice once, take it now. Just keep thinking to yourself "who cares what other people think?!?"

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This is pure wisdom, truer words have never been spoken.

Improve yourself and stop worrying about what others might be thinking, worrying about what others are thinking creates negative thoughts. Negative thoughts will cloud your mind a create depression. Live your life in the best possible way, don't worry about what other people are thinking, always be positive.

Went to library today - here is the sketch, similar to the bank scenerio yesterday. Let me go over the bank scenerio yesterday again:

You have an old woman with a HB7 beside her and they are both talking to each other in another language, and I start a convo asking if it's Russian.

Today - similar scenerio when returning videos, old woman librarian with a HB6 next to her talking about the east coast, Newfoundland and PEI, so I start a convo to the HB - so you are from Newfoundland? She said she was from PEI. There didn't appear to be any customers behind me, or any customers that she would be attending to. The older woman told me there was a 'hold', and pointed to the book section across, and having two divergent things - try to pursue the convo with the HB, or go to the bookshelf, I went to the bookshelf instead.

My mother was waiting outside the library this time, allowing for less stress inside. I'm not sure what the solution in this case is to continue a convo - other than to step up the amps, and really ask her about PEI -

LINKS on Flirting HTSWW: P.E.I. is often associated with 'Anne of Green Gables'. Since it is now known this HB is from PEI, she can be called 'Anne of Green Gables' for fun --- (i.e. "Hey look it's Anne of Green Gables from PEI, or how about this: "Say, I was curious, you said you were from PEI before, are you related to Anne of Green Gables, it appears your hair looks the same", and a flirting-rapport could be created on this interaction.

I've noticed that convo-opportunities can be captalised on by listening to a HB talk to someone else and then adding a comment or two to dig a bit more. Now while this may seem like a failed approach, enough info is garnered about this librarian, that, should I see her again, I can pun on the fact she is from PEI, and tease her with the 'Anne of Green Gables' nickname before attempting a contact-close.

On another note, there were many different HB's in the library in various numbers. I felt pressured to leave the library as soon as possible as my mom was waiting outside. A HB (minor?) was looking at some books on the same reserve section, and I didn't know how to approach, I could have said 'hi', but just decided to leave ASAP as my mom was outside.

To resolve a similar problem as my mom waiting outside, I think I should stick around the library anyway, and let her wait while trying to talk to people, but other than that, most girls were sitting down or sitting beside a computer making an approach very socially ackward - however, the throwaway line is this: "Is anyone sitting here?" (and carry a book so it looks less ackward).

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Went out to different places with my mom. Saw an HB8 but had a man beside her. Only saw one other cashier, which was an HB6, but we went to the express line, where there was an old FUG cashier, and that was it.

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SUMMARY:
contact-closes: 0
contact-close chances: 0
approach attempts: 1
approach opportunities: possibly up to 5 - conviently, around 2.
wave-attempts: 0
flirting insights: 1 "PEI - Anne of Green Gables' cousin" on one librarian.
easy-convo opportunities: 1

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To practise convo-skills - that is to look for ways of asking open-ended questions in convos as they come out to get the other person to start babbling.

(i.e., so you are from PEI? Wow. Could you tell me about the place you grew up? How was it like? -- bingo, you have a convo-extender). Excellent question, she could list the city, town, childhood experiences, romantic or special moments, etc.... you can hold a convo on this one for a few minutes and go for a contact close by saying, you have to go, but would like to hear more about it - then contact-close.

What I probably would have asked under pressure-- How long did you live there? Bad, bad question - she would just answer the amount of years,and the convo is over.

I should be going to church at 10:30, where service starts at 11:00 - there is should be some social - where 700 people will be attending - an excellent opportunity to practise convo skills and contact-closes.

I'm going to focus a bit less on isolating a HB from a group and talking with her, but introducing myself to a group first, seeing if I can join the group convo, and then working on the girl - find out her relationship with the group, and see if there is enough to go on to start a side convo with her and then go for a contact-close.

The problem in past approaches with girls, is there are always with another friend. I have this mind-prejudice, or maby it's an ego problem to go with the high-risk route and attempt to talk to a HB when she is isolated from the group or friends rather than introduce myself to the group, or if it's a mutual friend, talk with the friend first, get her to introduce me to the HB and contact-close BOTH of them at once - if her friend agrees to a contact close, the HB is likely to follow if she's single.

There - I'm forwarding the thread from past approach journals dealing with church environments. Church environments are excellent places to practise contact-closes and are no different from anywhere else - as long as you talk to a HB you can contact-close her after a few minutes of convo, and because I want to talk to other people around, that should be an acceptable excuse to cut a convo and go for the close.

I'll find the thread and add it here later by editing.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=104890

There are only a few logical contact-close strategies I can think of. Obviously, you are a maniac if you contact-close randomly to strangers, so that's not the goal in attacking a phobia like that.

But, contact-closes seem to fit well if you have some solid justification behind asking for a number - for example, to extend a convo that's going well, you can cut it off and contact-close under the guise that you are busy, or have to go somewhere. I'll call this the 'street contact close' for purposes of this thread.

GYM: contact-close: additional justifications - if girl doesn't know anyone at the gym, a contact-close should be easy, as you can go to the gym 'together' in the future, just call to see if she's going at a particular time or when she's going and she can do likewise, vice-versa.

Work and church: contact-close: cant think of anything, same as street I suppose in that regard. With a church contact close, you can always say that you are building a prayer list or social list, and get a bunch of @-closes or #-closes. So, that's my brainstorming for now.

Typically, when I was in University - I had allot of success getting contact-closes because people had a common interest of networking within a class environment, so it would appear that when I'm in a 'drive' for contact-closes, I can rack up a large volume of contacts in a short period of time.

Since the purpose of this thread is merely a contact-close, and not a g-close, mass contact-closes should be done in the church environments - one of those 'momentum' things. Work close and gym closes follow street closes, you are dealing 1:1 most of the time - and there is no justification for asking for a number - the benefit of that is, a g-close may also be more likely paired with a contact-close. Let's see if I contact close tommorow.

Went out again today, but I think I'm going to simply have to 'write-off' any time I'm sarging and my mother is in the picture. If it's my dad, then it may work, but not my mother, unless it's one of her former students, in which a contact-close may be done.

My mom coming with me tommorow to church - hopefully it will be an easier time, but I cant just approach anyone on the street and ask for their contact info - my mom will think I'm crazy just going up to strangers I dont know just to do some silly contact closing stunt. No way, I'm keeping contact closing for the Gym, when my mom's not around, and for the church - especially Yonge Adults, again, where my mom's not around.

An older HB7 with legs passed our path, and smiled at me, no contact close attempted, my mom thinks she's a witch. Other HB's seen inside a restaurant, didn't have the balls to approach with my mom - my mom's always worried about what vermin I may be picking up on the street and will think I'm going crazy if I attempt a contact close.

This is good FUR, because nobody FU better than me, all I need is a c0ckblocker and I FU all the time, what can I say? Ok, I cant FU all the time, something positive is happening inside, I can feel it, I'll soon be able to approach and contact close with or without my mother around.

Today, I meet a HB 7 at the bank, and she was talking Polish to another bank person, so I cracked and said "Geeze, is that Russian?", and then they said no, no, "It's Polish", and I said, 'oh really, is that right?' and we all laughed.

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You could of said, "Really Polish? You know what they say about Polish people right?" She may think it's some kind of an offensive joke. Tension rised.

Her: "No, what?"

You: "I Don't know, that's why you have to tell me about yourself." *Smile, Smile* Tension broke.

You: "Are you from Poland?"
Her: *Chick talk*
You: "Really?" Wait a bit.
Her: *More talky*
You: "That seems great. Hey, I would love to talk about this later, how can I get a hold of you?" Close. Assume the power and she will give it to you.

That's something you could of done.

Success. Contact phobia resolved.

@-close attempt on first person after a few minutes of convo - failed.

#-close attempt on second person with virtually no convo other than an intro - success.

#-close attempt on third person with virtually no convo other than an intro - success - but she did ask 'why' I wanted her #, which made me feel a bit ackward, had to make up some excuse, and then got her #.

#-close attempt on fourth person - BSed her way out of it by saying that if I need info about something I could contact xyz.

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Fastest contact-close was just after saying "Hi. I'm XYZ, what's your name? She replies. The a #-close is attempted.


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Approached a girl working at gym, saw "YORK" written on her a$$ on her trousers, and asked her if she went to York University, she said yes, we had a brief convo, but I failed to contact-close on her after getting her name. Guess I'm drained out or something.

Well this is great - 4 contact-close attempts, 2 actual contact-closes on rapid closes.

I'm thinking of setting a goal for approaches and contact-closes on the other FR's, but for now, I still think I have to get more comfortable contact-closing first, and once there is a consistent record of 'rapid contact close (i.e. closing immeidately upon introduction or a very brief convo) attempts, then I'll finish with this thread.

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I'm going to merge with Impact's Bootcamp week 2 -- a convo between 2-10 minutes will be attempted WITH A CONTACT-CLOSE at the end this time.

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The continuation of this saga will be reported a week later on the second week of bootcamp.