Social masks, seduction gurus and becoming a man that women desire

There is a difference between wearing a social mask and changing who you are. What I mean is a person can learn to change who he is and become smarter, funnier, and more confident and more successful with women. The problem lies with people who read e-books, go out faking confidence, faking conversational skills and using canned lines.

They think that the seduction gurus book is the holy grail of dating, everything they ever needed and just by acting confident, saying “Hi” to a women , negging her a few times and using C+F the HB10 will jump into their bed. WAKE UP it’s just and illusion, most seduction Gurus will have you believe that learning how to be great with women is easy, why? Because they want your money. They are business men they will show you something that seems simple and easy and you will throw money their way.

It happens all the time If you’ve ever seen early morning infomercials they always come up with all these versatile solutions for modern living. A toaster that cooks bread 10x faster, a juice machine that juices 1 orange per second. That’s what most of these seduction gurus sell you, they tell you you need to go out and do street approaches, you need to learn how to talk, you need to learn how to hypnotize women, NLP and all this other nonsense. They sell you a fantasy for their own fu*kin profit and who can blame them, we all want to make money.

You need to become the man that women desire, you have to have to cultivate all the attributes that attract women and dispel all the ones that don’t.

What do women want?

A guy that is handsome and/or Sexy
Can't do much about being attractive, either you are or you're not. You can obviously work out to get a more muscular, toned body and eat right. Get a haircut that suits you, shave or grow a moustache you really need to experiment, ask some female friends if you look better with a goatee or with spikey hair instead of a shaved head, you get the idea.

A guy that knows how to dress
Shopping at chain stores is not your best bet, going for Versace is out of some people budgets but in every mall there is at least one store that has good cloths that are more expensive than those of chain stores. This is not always the best place to shop because in terms of getting into high class clubs these cloths won't cut it but if you’re on a budget and want to look good, go for it. What you think looks good on you often doesn’t, it’s a good idea to take a female shopping with you as she can help you pick out cloths that suit you or ask the guy/girl that works in the store. They might try to sell you the most expensive stuff but usually they are ok.

Wit
Wit is difficult to work on and it comes with experience, if you talk with witty people you will slowly start to pick it up. It is also a good idea to watch some comedians Eddie Murphy for example. I read a book called "comedy writing secrets" that really helped me cultivate my wit. Wit is very important; a smart man uses wit to dominate you (AMOG) so it is beneficial for you to be witty. You can read books and listen to comedians but still I say the best way to become Witty is by experience, you need to get out there and socialize. Women find wit irresistible……

Confidence
This is a hard one and it takes a long time to become totally confident, my first step would be to take a self defense class. If you can find one do a UFC course because if you get into a street fight you’re not going to use fancy karate moves it’s going to be hard and fast. When you know how to defend yourself you will feel a lot more confident in social situations. You also should go to the gym and try to get in shape (If you aren’t already). Not only does exercise raise confidence because of the obvious physical benefits but working out gives you a sense of accomplishment which sitting in front of a computer doesn’t, this sense of accomplishment translates into confidence. Wearing good cloths, learning how to speak virtually everything you do to benefit yourself will increase your confidence. Your friends also play a huge role in how confident you are, if you have friends that are constantly putting you down because they themselves aren’t confident then you need to cut them off. You need to have positive friend that appreciate you, not people that put you down, I read a study that stated ‘We begin to mirror the people we associate ourselves with’, so if you want to become confident stay away from non confident people.

Class
What can I say about class? It all got to do with your hobbies, what you wear, the people you associate yourself with, how you talk. Take a look at some of the classy guys throughout history real and fictional, James Bond, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra. Classy guys drink an $80 bottle of wine while normal guys drink a $10, classy guys wear classy cloths while normal wear t-shirts.

Charm
-Smile: If you don’t smile you’re not charming, simple
-Let people talk: You just listen and let people tell you about themselves, biggest mistake guys make on a date is to talk about themselves too much. Let the girl talk about everything and anything all you have to do is listen and obviously carry the conversation along.
-Compliment do not flatter: The difference between a compliment and flattery is that compliments have no hidden agenda, It’s just a genuine compliment and it doesn’t make the person feel uncomfortable. Do not compliment somebody unless you really mean it, women especially have a good radar for bullsh*t. Another dating mistake guys make is over complimenting, you come off as fake and desperate, give the girl one sincere compliment and don’t make a big deal of it.
-Selflessness: The secret to charm is to be selfless. You are not being charming because you want something in return; you are being charming because that’s who you are. Do not give compliments with the expectation of receiving a compliment in return; do not listen with the expectation of being listened to.
-Eye contact: Straight forward, make sure you don’t stare.
-Confidence: I know these so called Gurus say to use ****iness but I say use confidence it’s different to ****iness. ****iness means you have something to prove, confidence means you have nothing to prove because you already know everything you need to know.
-Genuine interest: You need to have a real interest in getting to know people, don’t ask questions not wanting to hear the answers you need to have a curiosity about the person.

Danger
Women like a man with an edge of danger, go sky diving, base jump, rock climb, bungee jump do something that makes you unique.

Mystery
-Don’t give her your daily itinerary: Basically don’t tell her what you are going to do all day tomorrow; your life is yours you don’t need to tell her everything.
-Be vague: There are times when you can be vague about yourself, for instance when a girl asks me what I do for work I tell her “that’s my business”. I don’t do it in a rude way I just say it normally, sometimes they will drop it sometimes they will try and guess but don’t give in.
-Don’t always answer her calls: You should lead a busy life so in reality you shouldn’t have time to answer her calls anyway. If she asks why you didn’t answer tell her “I was busy” and don’t elaborate, she doesn’t need to know everything you do.

bump

Changing who you are takes some deep self exploration of who you really are. Wearing a social mask... best example i could give you -

if youve ever had to deal with the independent woman "i dont need no man" They carry their work mentality out of work to their personal lives. They hide real personality behind mask. Sometimes you can poke through to their weak spot. The funny guy... if you hit him off with some **** that goes to his emotions, he hides behind mask by laughing it off and deflecting joke somewhere esle but it really annoys him. Its like a image that youre trying to show everybody.
Yeah women care more about looks than they like you to think. I really gotta disagree with everybody who says that confidence is what women check for. First of all most people in the world arent confident. You cant try to get real confidence, it builds on its own. When you try thats called ego.

JHeights83rd said:

Changing who you are takes some deep self exploration of who you really are. Wearing a social mask... best example i could give you -

if youve ever had to deal with the independent woman "i dont need no man" They carry their work mentality out of work to their personal lives. They hide real personality behind mask. Sometimes you can poke through to their weak spot. The funny guy... if you hit him off with some **** that goes to his emotions, he hides behind mask by laughing it off and deflecting joke somewhere esle but it really annoys him. Its like a image that youre trying to show everybody.
Yeah women care more about looks than they like you to think. I really gotta disagree with everybody who says that confidence is what women check for. First of all most people in the world arent confident. You cant try to get real confidence, it builds on its own. When you try thats called ego.

Click to expand...

I know what a social mask is....

Women definitely care about looks a lot, more then seduction gurus will have you belive; however they do also look for confidence and other factors.

That’s what I was getting at with the confidence statement, you do activities that benefit you like going to the gym, taking self defense classes, being surrounded by positive and confident people and actively trying to become a more successful person will build your confidence.

Both of you are right.

Jheight are you suggesting that a person needs to fully break themselves down to their core elements in order to rebuild themselves???

I want to transfer this into my own thread, but I will not post hor:nervous:

Most men, regardless of what they look like or of what they have going for them, are not swarmed with women. Looks are certainly an important aspect of physical attraction, but far from the most important aspect. All of the other attributes you have listed are certainly important if not necessary in some instances of attraction. However, attraction depends on context... the guru types that stress pick up games are really just instructing you on how to convey all of the aforementioned qualities in a reasonable amount of time, within the context of a conversation that might occur in a loud environment filled with a handful of attractive women and a squadron of lonely and competitive men. You can have the world in the palm of your hand, but that won't mean anything to the lady in the bookstore or to the girls seated at the bar if you cannot convey those values and success in a contextually appropriate fashion... and most of these ladies have ADHD, so you gotta be quick with your game, and be able to handle the alpha male other guys that come over to defend their turf. They might have nothing on you but if they can talk and manipulate, then they stand a chance of blowing you out of the set.

Women go for what women go for, and they can be manipulated the same way that men can be manipulated. They do not all end up with the perfect man. Regardless of what women say they will settle for, many of them compromise big time. Many of them settle, just as men settle, for a less than perfect mate, simply because they feel really attracted to him. Attraction and seduction are not a reflection of what a man has going for himself. Money, muscles, a black belt, and a most intriguing career do not in and of themselves foster attraction, although they might demonstrate an attractive quality or characteristic if you're wise and articulate enough to share this knowledge in the context of an opening conversation. You will not seduce the average woman by whispering in her ear that you are a lawyer or a dentist, that you can bench press seven hundred pounds, or that you like to wrestle with crocodiles in your spare time. In and of themselves, these facts say little about the person you are. I hate to say it but here goes: The person you ARE doesn't say much about the person you are. You have to demonstrate who you are given your short, interrupted opportunities, and most of the time, this entails being able to spit game. Unless you are a celebrity, few people are gonna take one look at you and assume you have all of the characteristics outlined in this post. If you are very good looking, then occasionally you'll notice women looking in your direction. Most men feel they don't get enough attention however and that they have to work for what they get. No game, then you're playing the numbers game... pressing your luck. This is what the average guy does. This is what the average frustrated guy does. Being able to talk up your accomplishments - being able to articulately employ these facts as part of your stories, routine, etc... that makes the difference. This is how Joe Burgerking who swears too much, drinks too much beer, and is often low on confidence can sweet talk a woman away from her brain surgeon husband. It has to do with framing and context. It's seduction. It's more emotional than logical. It's art.

I only glanced over everything after your little introduction of the post, but I agree.

But I think those traits are only a few of the tools in the tool box.

Have you read the book 'The Game' by Neil Strauss? It sort of shows hwo he grew out of canned lines and all that. I'm not finished with it yet, but it's inspiring


The one second juicer can be a great tool in the kitchen.. but it cant be the only thing you use.

Pretty much spot on for some women out there.

This is definitely targeted to classier women, there are definitely more traits worth working on I just mentioned the main ones. The other traits I haven’t mentioned pretty much stem off the main ones I wrote about so cultivating what I mentioned will strengthen the other ones.

Embrace said:

I only glanced over everything after your little introduction of the post, but I agree.

But I think those traits are only a few of the tools in the tool box.

Have you read the book 'The Game' by Neil Strauss? It sort of shows hwo he grew out of canned lines and all that. I'm not finished with it yet, but it's inspiring

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It's amazing how much success can be garnered with canned material. Notice how some of the men Style writes about are emotionally labile and completely insecure - and then they adopt their handle, throw on some Newrocks, and sarge the town, closing more deals in one night than some of you have closed in a decade.

The mask, the fake identity thing sort of works. Some men I know were able to have some success when they started thinking of attraction and seduction as a game. The more they played, the better they became.

Advantage: you get to play with the girls.
Disadvantage: you might feel hurt because they're in love with your alterego and not your true self.

At least this explains why a guy can be totally insincere and have little going for him aside from his game, and still be effective. Women realize who he is, but they still go for him.

Social masks can work no doubt but it’s not a long term thing. Ok you meet the girl, you number close, you call her, you have a date and then your true self starts showing. She sees a glimpse of you through those little eye holes in the mask and even a glimpse of that insecure child within is enough to send a beautiful woman running.

Also what is the point of lying to yourself and being someone you’re not just to get a girl into bed? I say change yourself and become the man women desire, become James Bond and women will chase you. You won’t need canned lines or NLP hypnosis. Women will want you because you are a man not because you play all these deluded games with her.

Charlie Gordon said:

It's amazing how much success can be garnered with canned material. Notice how some of the men Style writes about are emotionally labile and completely insecure - and then they adopt their handle, throw on some Newrocks, and sarge the town, closing more deals in one night than some of you have closed in a decade.

The mask, the fake identity thing sort of works. Some men I know were able to have some success when they started thinking of attraction and seduction as a game. The more they played, the better they became.

Advantage: you get to play with the girls.
Disadvantage: you might feel hurt because they're in love with your alterego and not your true self.

At least this explains why a guy can be totally insincere and have little going for him aside from his game, and still be effective. Women realize who he is, but they still go for him.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree with that, according to my handle I am mysterious type of hitman of some sort yeah...right. But let me tell you something about the higher calling: After awhile after all the faking, hyper-masculinity that person who theorizes how a real man should act... he gets it. (I'm hoping.) A lot of men including myself want to figure out what personality brings out the best type of man that will attract alot of women. Is it James Bond, Clint Eastwood, Tyler Durden? The truth is that money or looks talk a lot more than personality will ever if you want to pick up a lot of women. Hey, I'm being honest here, but then that's also very important too for those who aren't rich or good looking. When you can be honest with yourself or at least try, you've almost reached the apex of what it means to be a man, for yourself - Not the girl or future girls. Yourself.

James Bond by far, women are attracted to Tyler and Clint but I'm sure most of them will pick Bond. Ok I'm a little bias because I see myself as a James Bond type. I might start a survey on a girls forum as to who they like best personality wise.

Can anybody link me to the forum that the female equivalent to sosuave?

Angelus - I tend to agree with your post, but well... look only has a small factor on the quantity and quality of woman you can pick up.

Now, I'm by no means a bradd Pitt impersonator, but i've still managed to line up some smoking hot women. The thing is that attitude and personality tend to trump looks.

I think you can used canned lines n **** to pickup a chick. then be a man that woman desire afterwords. Think about it, PUA's pick up chicks.. they are pick up artists. The canned lines n **** are to pick up chicks. after that is where the being a man type stuff comes into play.. if yo uare actually interested in a ltr with the woman


and theres a woman equivalent to sosuave?
interesting... link meh!

I dont know how a girl could have any problem getting guys

AngelusPUA said:

Social masks can work no doubt but it’s not a long term thing.

Also what is the point of lying to yourself and being someone you’re not just to get a girl into bed?

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Your first point is entirely true. A lot of men who begin taking chances, especially when they used canned material, inevitably lose women early in their relationships. They panic once they have had some success and realize that nobody is going to tell them how to take it from there. Women smell the insecurity. It's all a part of a process. Either they get better at staying in character after the initial close or they find ways of integrating their personality into their game so that the two are entirely congruent.

Ultimately, they may become a person with game as opposed to a person playing the game. I think that is the distinction we are trying to make. I agree that the former is more desirable, but few people start off that way.

To answer your question: if a man puts on a social mask, plays the game, and gets laid, then regardless of his future failure or success with the same woman, he has still succeeded in proving to himself that he is capable of at least getting laid. That can be a decisive moment for a lot of guys. That can offer the sort of validation that is vital for success in future endeavors, whether or not he tries to be more himself or resorts to nlp or whatever.

I'm too fat, too bald, too short, too poor... this is all we ever hear on this forum. Guy borrows something from Mystery and it works... well, he's no longer able to hide behind his being too fat, bald, poor or whatever. He realizes that he has more control over his love life. It's learning to ride a bike all over again. You don't need to use training wheels, but it helps a lot, especially when you have poor coordination and tremendous self doubt to surmount.

Instead of masks and games, a guy could lose weight, shave his head completely, wear some platform shoes, and get a job... but I have doubts that making all of those changes will really affect his success with women. There are scores of "successful" average frustrated chumps - legions of them! Go to any bar. They're all over the place. If the number one thing eating away at this man is his lack of success and confidence with women, then the thing that will give him peace of mind and perhaps a drive to excel in other areas of his life may just be success with women!

I say confront your problems directly!

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I don’t agree that lying to yourself for long enough will make you become that lie.

"a guy could lose weight, shave his head completely, wear some platform shoes, and get a job... but I have doubts that making all of those changes will really affect his success with women"

I agree but becoming a man that women desire I.E. charming, witty, classy is a different story.

Just out of curiosity are you speaking from experience or theory?

So pimp its scary- We could argue the importance of looks for days on end and we will still be at the same place. It is a pointless argument so we have to agree to disagree.

bump

AngelusPUA said:

Social masks can work no doubt but it’s not a long term thing. Ok you meet the girl, you number close, you call her, you have a date and then your true self starts showing. She sees a glimpse of you through those little eye holes in the mask and even a glimpse of that insecure child within is enough to send a beautiful woman running.

Click to expand...

I know this is going to touch a nerve but I could not resist. I believe I"ve demonstrated that a first date can be totally canned and set up that you get the girl to do most of the talking, and you can phrase the date in the way that romantic convo. So, a cherade can continue on a pick-up, first date, and by the time you are on a second-date seducing her, then it's too late for her to change her mind, when you are taking her to all these romantic places
and creating 'romantic moments' before she can really question who you are.

AngelusPUA said:

Also what is the point of lying to yourself and being someone you’re not just to get a girl into bed? I say change yourself and become the man women desire, become James Bond and women will chase you. You won’t need canned lines or NLP hypnosis. Women will want you because you are a man not because you play all these deluded games with her.

Click to expand...

But if you are changing yourself in order to be successful with a woman, it sounds like the same thing, because you are still becoming something that you are not in order to score with girls.

Anyway, I respect the advice you are saying, and realise you are not asking for money, so that's cool. But, let's just say, I'm not an alpha-male that has an expensive car and that's a CEO or have my life together - that means I cant go up to a girl and start talking to her or picking her up? Of course not.

Luke Skywalker said:

I know this is going to touch a nerve but I could not resist. I believe I"ve demonstrated that a first date can be totally canned and set up that you get the girl to do most of the talking, and you can phrase the date in the way that romantic convo. So, a cherade can continue on a pick-up, first date, and by the time you are on a second-date seducing her, then it's too late for her to change her mind, when you are taking her to all these romantic places
and creating 'romantic moments' before she can really question who you are.



But if you are changing yourself in order to be successful with a woman, it sounds like the same thing, because you are still becoming something that you are not in order to score with girls.

Anyway, I respect the advice you are saying, and realise you are not asking for money, so that's cool. But, let's just say, I'm not an alpha-male that has an expensive car and that's a CEO or have my life together - that means I cant go up to a girl and start talking to her or picking her up? Of course not.

Click to expand...

You don't need to be rich and it’s not about being an alpha-male, It's not the same thing you are making positive changes to your life in order to grow into a better person. As opposed to pretending to be someone you’re not in order to get a girl into bed. One is about faking and the other is about evolving and you have the balls to tell me faking is better just because you read it from some seduction guru in a book.

The 30 year old virgin telling me how it’s done right? I’ll definitely take your advice onboard.

Mark my words in 1 month you will be back here more depressed than you are now saying “this seduction stuff doesn’t work”, “why can’t I get any women?” and “I went out on a date and she hasn’t retuned any of my calls since”. I wish you luck though, I sincerely do man I hope you find whatever it is that you are looking for.

Out of curiosity how far have you got with this girl? the one that you used canned lines on.
Did you kiss her on the first date?
Did you sleep with her?
Did you hold hands?
Has she called you?