The Great Irony of the SMV theory

We all know the SMV theory. girls have a harder time to get dates when they get older, it becomes easier for guys who peak in thier 30's. women hit their peak in their 20's. In turn, women who played around in their 20's become bitter and make unrealistic demands from the few single 30 year old men who are around who say screw this i'm going to date younger women without the baggage, older woman becomes more and more bitter. that's the jist of it.


I got 2 single guy friends both older than myself. one is 34 and one is 31. i'm not gay or anything but neither are ugly dudes. One is in above avg shape, works out a few times a week has a little muscle tone to him, the other is pretty avg shape. both white males.

both are single. To make this as short as possible both are trying to find dates and are having hell doing so.

i sat them down a few years ago when i first met them and tried to explain the SMV theory to them at a party one night nad told them man your 30's will be the best years of your life if you play your cards right. Both own their own houses, both have a little bit of money both took care of the **** that they were supposed to take care of, both are still single.

both are telling me pretty much the same thing and i'm seeing it with my own 2 eyes as well. everything they do, they come off as creepy trying to do so simply because they are not in their 20's anymore. and i mean what exactly can you do as a single 30 year old dude? you can't go to clubs and pick up chicks. you can't sit at starbucks and pick up chicks, you can't cold approach a woman and not come off as creepy

I feel bad for the dudes. could they probably get laid if they lived in bars and blew money on drinks all the time yeah but they don't want that. they just want to go on normal ass dates wtih normal attractive women who aren't gold diggers or bat **** crazy and they are finding that to be virtually impossible now.


this is the conclusion that i am coming to and it's a pretty radical one that will spark a debate, among other things lol

Just about anything you do when you get out of your 20's and you are trying to pick up women you are going to come off as a creep.

Either you are a creep or the woman is taken. I mean, if i were single i'd get by, Ihave **** working for me that most men don't, just to be frank. But for avg well adjusted men the **** is tough out there.

Here is why I say it's irony.... beucase both of these dudes put women off, both had opproutnities when they were younger to settle down, one i know of for a fact one of our female friends had a little crush on one of the guys and he just wnated to **** and didn't really want to date her and she found someone else and she's in a real relationship now.

so at 30 plus years old i am sitting here listening to these dudes complaining about the good women being taken and ****, the're right lol i don't know what to tell them. both of them tell me that man i woiuld love to have a woman like your wife man you are a lucky dude but part of that was me actually choosing to settle down when i had plenty of options to play around. her the same for me.


i mean **** i could very well be wrong i'm not trying to start some internet revolution or some **** lol i just am telling you what i am observing from the front lines of real everyday life. how many 30 year olds do you know are actually living the DJ dream, i.e dating good looking well adjusted women with no baggage that hey met in their 30's?


i am seeing that it's socially unaccecptable for a single .. 34 year old guy to go around trying to pick up women. i don't care how hot he is. the game was pretty much written by guys in their 20's projecting what the 30's and 40's and 50's should be like and i am seeing it's not really like that.


does it mean i am going to hold on to my wife no matter what? not if she starts acting not like my wife she can go still. i will manage. but i don't believe it's all wine and roses for single 30 year old men out there today. peole are paired up by this time and you can't do the same **** socially as you could to meet people 10 years earlier.


i already know i will be flamed to hell in gasoline underwear for this post but i don't really give a ****. i don;t feel any conviction one way or hte other on the subject i have no vested interest i'm hitched lol. just reporting what i am honeslty seeing.

i'm not talking about "Hot 20 somethings". i'm talking about women in general. thy can't even get decent looking 30 somethings. all of them are taken or are turned off by a guy openly hitting on them.

I think i am going to do a "field study" with them next weekend

BB how much actual experience do you have in your 30s trying to get women at bars, night clubs or in general? I really don't see any irony from this post - you cherry picked two guys cases and decided it spoke to the experience of everyone in their 30s? Last time I was out near your neck of the woods, I did just fine being in my 30s. Was there for all of one week and already landed a hot date with a 24 year old.


so what is the point of this post? So tell anyone over 30 that their efforts are fruitless and creepy? To put people down? Not really sure what that brings to the community at all. Further, my own experience might suggest dating women is just fine.

backbreaker said:

i'm not talking about "Hot 20 somethings". i'm talking about women in general. thy can't even get decent looking 30 somethings. all of them are taken or are turned off by a guy openly hitting on them.

I think i am going to do a "field study" with them next weekend

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If you plan on attending amateur hour, than you'll observe sub par results. Why waste the time?

Next time I am in SoCal, come do a real field study. I'll show you how its done.

synergy1 said:

If you plan on attending amateur hour, than you'll observe sub par results. Why waste the time?

Next time I am in SoCal, come do a real field study. I'll show you how its done.

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that's my entire point. lol you are basically proving what i am saying.

You aren't avg. I'm not avg.

This is what i am trying to say. for any theory, in game, or anything else in life to be accurate it has to work in it's most simplest form. The 2 of us have a combined 18 years of experience on sosuave lol. i would hope that if we were single in HB capital of the world we could get laid, and you are one of the more sane guys on this forum lol.

I'm not talking about us. I'm talking about for regular ass avg guys. For the theory to hold water it would have to work with regular ass, id on't have game out the ass, i don't drive a 2013 jag and live in a 4 bedroom house, i don't work out 5 days a week and count my calories everyday guy.

for the theory to work a regular ass guy should be having an easier time getting quality ***** than he had in his 20's and i am not seeing that. that's ALL i am saying. nothing more nothing less.


all i am saying is that i am.. i'm not even going to say i don;t' believe, i'm starting to doubt that all things being equal, a 34 year old guys' SMV is not greater than a 24 year old guys' SMV

Dear B squared,
Or anyone,Put me out of my misery fer Chris'sake what is an SMV when he's at home or abroad, or is this site to be monopolised by the acronymacenti?

sexual market value

backbreaker said:

that's my entire point. lol you are basically proving what i am saying.

You aren't avg. I'm not avg.

This is what i am trying to say. for any theory, in game, or anything else in life to be accurate it has to work in it's most simplest form. The 2 of us have a combined 18 years of experience on sosuave lol. i would hope that if we were single in HB capital of the world we could get laid, and you are one of the more sane guys on this forum lol.

I'm not talking about us. I'm talking about for regular ass avg guys. For the theory to hold water it would have to work with regular ass, id on't have game out the ass, i don't drive a 2013 jag and live in a 4 bedroom house, i don't work out 5 days a week and count my calories everyday guy.

for the theory to work a regular ass guy should be having an easier time getting quality ***** than he had in his 20's and i am not seeing that. that's ALL i am saying. nothing more nothing less.

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I read what you are saying. Perhaps I was quick to post a retort to that.

I think the biggest downfall of a regular 30 year old who has never gotten good at the game is that they become set in their ways and are unable to change. For those guys, it becomes more difficult not less difficult. They have been on a path for failure for a decade and negative results with women will compound ones bad habits....for these guys, they never had a sexual market value.

So what makes your friends so bad at attracting women? Cali is a virtual playground for me, and I am not anything super special or anything. I could have a date within a day of touching down on the west coast. No joke. If you follow these guys around, post what their results/ techniques are. I am genuinely curious.

I think technology is playing a role in society's downward spiral of people skills. Those skills come from interacting with an actual person, not an I-phone. Texting, for example, removes many elements from communication that are important skills with women, like the many facets of non-verbal communication. Technology has simplified communication so much that we are losing the incentive to be skilled in its finer points.

Bible_Belt said:

I think technology is playing a role in society's downward spiral of people skills. Those skills come from interacting with an actual person, not an I-phone. Texting, for example, removes many elements from communication that are important skills with women, like the many facets of non-verbal communication. Technology has simplified communication so much that we are losing the incentive to be skilled in its finer points.

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i believe this as well greatly. a combination of women not being as respective to outsiders because of the online community she is already attached to and guys just not having the people skills that they would have by the age of 30 if there weren't on facebook for the last 8 years and actually had to talk to women in real life for the last 10 years.

what you get for the avg guy is a 30 year old without social skills talking to women who aren't receptive.

backbreaker said:

We all know the SMV theory. girls have a harder time to get dates when they get older, it becomes easier for guys who peak in thier 30's. women hit their peak in their 20's. In turn, women who played around in their 20's become bitter and make unrealistic demands from the few single 30 year old men who are around who say screw this i'm going to date younger women without the baggage, older woman becomes more and more bitter. that's the jist of it.

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Yeah the SMV theory is mostly BS except for the part that as women age they become bitter and more demanding. It was true maybe 15+ years ago but not anymore. Nowadays even average women up to their late 40's can get more dates with even males in their 20's than can most men of any age.

I got 2 single guy friends both older than myself. one is 34 and one is 31. i'm not gay or anything but neither are ugly dudes. One is in above avg shape, works out a few times a week has a little muscle tone to him, the other is pretty avg shape. both white males.

both are single. To make this as short as possible both are trying to find dates and are having hell doing so.

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I think this is very typical especially when a guy gets past his late 20's. The dating pool because modern limits on older guys dating younger women really shrinks. And has I've said before, a guy can have 9 out of 10 things ggoing for him, height, leaness, not bad looks etc but one or two things not up to par, maybe hair thinning or such and he's rejected. Also it's not enough to have decent looks as a guy, you have to have above average looks/appearance to be in the game.

i sat them down a few years ago when i first met them and tried to explain the SMV theory to them at a party one night nad told them man your 30's will be the best years of your life if you play your cards right. Both own their own houses, both have a little bit of money both took care of the **** that they were supposed to take care of, both are still single.

both are telling me pretty much the same thing and i'm seeing it with my own 2 eyes as well. everything they do, they come off as creepy trying to do so simply because they are not in their 20's anymore. and i mean what exactly can you do as a single 30 year old dude? you can't go to clubs and pick up chicks. you can't sit at starbucks and pick up chicks, you can't cold approach a woman and not come off as creepy

I feel bad for the dudes. could they probably get laid if they lived in bars and blew money on drinks all the time yeah but they don't want that. they just want to go on normal ass dates wtih normal attractive women who aren't gold diggers or bat **** crazy and they are finding that to be virtually impossible now.


this is the conclusion that i am coming to and it's a pretty radical one that will spark a debate, among other things lol

Just about anything you do when you get out of your 20's and you are trying to pick up women you are going to come off as a creep.

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Being older and approaching women=creepy. Not being attractive enough=creepy. Although I will say it is mostly about appearance. These guys might not look bad, but with a good enough appearance you can pick up in your 30's. It's just you have to be at a level of appearance that few men are able to attain.

Either you are a creep or the woman is taken. I mean, if i were single i'd get by, Ihave **** working for me that most men don't, just to be frank. But for avg well adjusted men the **** is tough out there.

Here is why I say it's irony.... beucase both of these dudes put women off, both had opproutnities when they were younger to settle down, one i know of for a fact one of our female friends had a little crush on one of the guys and he just wnated to **** and didn't really want to date her and she found someone else and she's in a real relationship now.

so at 30 plus years old i am sitting here listening to these dudes complaining about the good women being taken and ****, the're right lol i don't know what to tell them. both of them tell me that man i woiuld love to have a woman like your wife man you are a lucky dude but part of that was me actually choosing to settle down when i had plenty of options to play around. her the same for me.


i mean **** i could very well be wrong i'm not trying to start some internet revolution or some **** lol i just am telling you what i am observing from the front lines of real everyday life. how many 30 year olds do you know are actually living the DJ dream, i.e dating good looking well adjusted women with no baggage that hey met in their 30's?


i am seeing that it's socially unaccecptable for a single .. 34 year old guy to go around trying to pick up women. i don't care how hot he is. the game was pretty much written by guys in their 20's projecting what the 30's and 40's and 50's should be like and i am seeing it's not really like that.


does it mean i am going to hold on to my wife no matter what? not if she starts acting not like my wife she can go still. i will manage. but i don't believe it's all wine and roses for single 30 year old men out there today. peole are paired up by this time and you can't do the same **** socially as you could to meet people 10 years earlier.


i already know i will be flamed to hell in gasoline underwear for this post but i don't really give a ****. i don;t feel any conviction one way or hte other on the subject i have no vested interest i'm hitched lol. just reporting what i am honeslty seeing.

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I've been observing for years now and I haven't personally met or known any guys in their 30's that do well with pick up. I see lots of claims online but where are these guys in real life? They should be common based on the claims.

That said, one can pick up attractive, young girls into your 30's and 40's, but it takes exceptional good looking youthful appearance, and money and some degree of status helps.

Bible_Belt said:

I think technology is playing a role in society's downward spiral of people skills. Those skills come from interacting with an actual person, not an I-phone. Texting, for example, removes many elements from communication that are important skills with women, like the many facets of non-verbal communication. Technology has simplified communication so much that we are losing the incentive to be skilled in its finer points.

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Yes, but the irony is guys in their early 20's only known technology. Yet they are getting allthe 20-year old women. Guys in their 30's spent their development years and youth before the internet and cell phones. Yet many older guys still struggle more with young women.

I don't disagree that people male and female are less interested and worse at real life, in person interaction due to technology. Technology has made men more available to women and is facilitating female hypergamy. If women could only get validation from men in real life and in person, outside of bars, they'd probably get 1/10th of what they are getting now.

I seem to remember before all the technology, females went to bars usually with just their best girl friend and were really wanting to meet a new guy and make it count. Now it seems bars are filled with closed off facebook faux social circles and the girls aren't interested in anyone outside of their circle and a lot of times not even interested in anyone in their circle lol.

The best samurai swords in the world are 700+ years old. Their quality cannot be duplicated by modern technology; not even close. After firearms became standard weapons, the families who had perfected over generations the art of forging the world's best steel did not continue in the trade, and the skill was lost forever.

Self-driving cars are coming in the next few decades. When that happens, people are going to forget how to drive, because they won't need to anymore.

At some point, the I-phones will start to communicate for us entirely. And then communication will become another lost art form. Your Siri and her Siri will be the ones gaming each other.

This seems ridiculous. It seems most of the guys in their 20s are complaining they can't get the hot girls because they don't have xyz - they get told to invest in themselves so they can get them in their 30s.. now people are saying you can't get hot girls in your 30s+ because you're too old.

When the hell are you supposed to get them??

SteR said:

This seems ridiculous. It seems most of the guys in their 20s are complaining they can't get the hot girls because they don't have xyz - they get told to invest in themselves so they can get them in their 30s.. now people are saying you can't get hot girls in your 30s+ because you're too old.

When the hell are you supposed to get them??

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There seems to be a round of ageism going around the board right now. But I think what BB is saying is that the guys who don't invest in themselves and get their sh!t together in their 20s are going to struggle when they get older. I mean, I suppose that's true. If you don't make something of yourself, you're not going to be anybody. To me, the whole idea of your 20s is to make something of yourself, to set yourself up for the rest of your life.

backbreaker said:

Just about anything you do when you get out of your 20's and you are trying to pick up women you are going to come off as a creep.

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I can't agree with that. But like you say, you have to have built some value and stayed in shape.

This reminds me of a line from a horrible movie called "Crazy, Stupid Love". Ryan Gosling plays a guru type trying to teach Steve Carrell how to be a pickup artist. He tells Carrell's character something along the lines of "There's not much good about being your age, but one of the few things is that you can transform your wardrobe with just five items". Or something like that.

I thought it was funny he was telling Carrell how his age was a disadvantage. But not long after that, he managed to bang Marisa Tomei. Not too shabby in my book. It was still a terrible movie, tries to sell the idea of a soulmate in the end.

I do agree one of the frustrations of being that age is that it does seem like practically everybody is taken. There are a few hidden diamonds in the rough, but you have to dig for them. But BB, you've said that where you live there is an excess of hot women who can't find dates. Why can't these guys pick up on those?

I would be curious to see what these guys' flaws are and what your observations are of what they're doing. Sounds like an interesting sociological experiment.

zekko said:

There seems to be a round of ageism going around the board right now. But I think what BB is saying is that the guys who don't invest in themselves and get their sh!t together in their 20s are going to struggle when they get older. I mean, I suppose that's true. If you don't make something of yourself, you're not going to be anybody. To me, the whole idea of your 20s is to make something of yourself, to set yourself up for the rest of your life.

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Well, in that case I agree. But I disagree with what BB says here:

backbreaker said:

all i am saying is that i am.. i'm not even going to say i don;t' believe, i'm starting to doubt that all things being equal, a 34 year old guys' SMV is not greater than a 24 year old guys' SMV

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Although I don't have first-hand experience with this, I would have thought that with all things being equal ie. the guy is in just as good a shape etc, he would be perceived as more attractive at 34 than 24.

I've always been led to believe that if you take care of yourself, you'll be more desirable in your 30s than you could've been in your 20s.

Anyway I'm about to turn 30, I'll make a point of recording my experiences over the following decade and post them up on the forums, ha.

This whole concept sounds a lot like the idea of how a female should lock down a good male partner while she's at her SMV peak in her 20s before she hits the wall when she turns 30.

The thing is, if you are not a high value male, chances are a woman you "lock down" in your 20s is simply going to leave you once she tires of you and/or finds someone better. That's why this doesn't work for guys. Hypergamy again.

SteR said:

Although I don't have first-hand experience with this, I would have thought that with all things being equal ie. the guy is in just as good a shape etc, he would be perceived as more attractive at 34 than 24.

I've always been led to believe that if you take care of yourself, you'll be more desirable in your 30s than you could've been in your 20s.

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If you play your cards right you should be.

Zarky made a comment in another thread that guys who don't do as well in their 30s are guys who peaked in their 20s. I guess if you really were the man in your 20s, there wouldn't be much room for improvement. My problem in my 20s was twofold: First off, I hadn't built enough value yet. And secondly, I tended to sell myself short.

The irony is that men value love and women love value. No matter the age of women, women still will be doing the choosing.

Women in their later years have bitter baggage, but they still have no problems getting dates. Since a woman, regardless of age, only has to make it known she's available to have a line-up of suitors, that's why they can make the dating game tough for men, and social media glorifying women really isn't helping men. I've noticed that older guys struggle with younger women, and a lot of men struggle with women of all ages. So many men have lowered their standards it's inflating the value of women highly! Even a woman past 70 and a fatass woman have more options than men in their 20s!

Women look at men's overall value.

backbreaker said:

Just about anything you do when you get out of your 20's and you are trying to pick up women you are going to come off as a creep.

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So, your two friends come off as creeps so every guy over 30 must come off as a creep? I'll have to let my buddy know at his wedding later this month, he is 36 and his fiance is 25 (and a HB8). My brother-in-law's brother would probably like to know how creepy he is too, since he is 41 and his fiance is only 24. My cousin as well, his girlfriend would appreciate knowing what a creep he is, since he is 38 and she is 25. However, the many women I've dated in their 20s while I've been in my 30s might actually agree with you that I'm a creep, I tend to act like a d!ck every now and again.

Look, if you go after women who show you no interest to begin with, don't be surprised when you get rejected 9 times out of 10. Personally, I keep my eyes open for the women I see checking me out and then I go for the approach, I have a much better success rate that way.

"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, chances are you're right."

zekko said:

This reminds me of a line from a horrible movie called "Crazy, Stupid Love". Ryan Gosling plays a guru type trying to teach Steve Carrell how to be a pickup artist.

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That was the one of the most crinege-worthiest movies I've ever seen. Goslings' character showing how to be a DJ was the only redeeming part of this otherwise BOMB.