Why you should never take a woman's words at face value

This is "Intro to DJ 101" stuff, I know, but I want to point out something interesting that I noticed.

First let me say that I believe that any survey or study that is given to women with regard to sex and the mating game in general might as well be ripped to shreds. It isn't worth the paper it's printed on, and here's why....

Reason #1- Women have too much to lose by telling the truth.

Even if a woman KNOWS the survey is anonymous, there is a HUGE grey area that women do not count. You ask them "How many sexual partners have you had". If you are lucky, they will at least count all of the men who they have had actual intercourse with. Chances are most of them will only count actual "boyfriends" (this is especially true if it is a man asking his g/f directly). And most likely NONE of the women surveyed would include "sexual activity" that did not include intercourse, such as oral and anal sex and manual stimulation.

Reason #2- It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to get a truthful answer to many questions, simply because women lack the capacity for accountability and are deeply conditioned that certain behaviors are wrong. Basically, they believe their own bullsh!t..

Case in point.

We had a discussion recently about whether or not women tend to choose men who have a better ability to "provide".

Now I know for a common sense fact that ALL THINGS EQUAL, a woman will choose the man who shows the most potential to provide resources.

After a heated discussion I decided to google some info on mate selection and I ran across a study that asked women and men to rate certain qualities based upon how desirable they find them to be in a potential mate.
http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep01116126.pdf

Here is an excerpt from the article:

Seriousness, independence, and being enterprising are traits assessed significantly more positively by women. From an evolutionary perspective traits like these are indirectly related to a mate’s potential capability to secure resources and succeed in social competition. However, this provides rather modest support for the hypothesis about ‘female choice’. Many of the traits more directly related to resource acquisition are equally desired by both sexes (e.g., intelligence, ability, diligence, capability to earn, erudition, ambition, to have money, or to have a car), thus confirming that “desire for status is fundamental dimension of mate preferences for both men and women” (Pratto, Sidanius and Stallworth, 1993).

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Alright. I'm no Einstein, but it is BLATANTLY obvious that these scientists DID NOT take into account the fact that a woman is going to be LESS likely to state that she prefers traits such as capability to earn, to have money, and to have a car, despite the fact that she DOES admit to having a preference for the base characteristics of a man who is capable of having such things.

In other words, if you ask a woman DIRECTLY if she prefers a man with earning capability, with money, or a man with a car, she will INEVITABLY deny the fact that she favors these traits due to the fact that in a woman's eyes, being labeled as a "golddigger" is almost as bad as being labeled as a "slut".

I have witnessed this on many occasions. If a woman is told "Women tend to prefer rich men", chances are she will go into defensive mode and completely deny that she would ever consider money (or other things that DIRECTLY signal the ability to provide resources) as a factor in selecting a mate. She will go out of her way to proclaim that "money doesn't matter", because that's what people are taught to say. What they DO on the other hand is completely different.

Now I can guaranFREAKINtee you that the vast, VAST majority of women out there would pick a rich guy over a poor guy, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. And the few who WOULDN'T choose the rich guy would likely make their choice based upon wanting to avoid the STIGMA associated with making that choice, and not their true preference.

Again, i know this is elementary knowledge, but I can't remember if we have ever gotten this deep into the psychology of the reasons why you can't listen to a woman's words.

I'm curious to see what everyone thinks about this.

A main part of your thread depends on this statement you keep stressing:

STR8UP said:

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.

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Hey STR8UP. The thing is, all things will never be equal.

You do know that right? You will never have two people who are exactly the same, and the only varietal is that one is rich and one is poor.

Women tend to look at the total package deal.

And yes, being able to provide is a plus.

Sorry to be the one to respond, as I know you probably don't appreciate it. :nervous:

Men like T&A.

Women like the total package.

Power
Money
Fame
Looks
Dominance

Those are universal. Women rarely admit it outright. So Str8up, I agree with you 100%. The wealthy guy is always going to have a heads up. I once heard someone say that women would rather share a wealthy man then have their own poor one. Choosing the wealthy guy would normally be rationalized after she made the decision. Perhaps his "confidence" or his "ambition" is what made him attractive

Sometimes I cant help but think there is truth in that statement.

AgonyUncle said:

I once heard someone say that women would rather share a wealthy man then have their own poor one.

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When this is a woman's number one factor, then she is first and foremost a gold digger.

STR8UP said:

This is "Intro to DJ 101" stuff, I know, but I want to point out something interesting that I noticed.

First let me say that I believe that any survey or study that is given to women with regard to sex and the mating game in general might as well be ripped to shreds. It isn't worth the paper it's printed on, and here's why....

Reason #1- Women have too much to lose by telling the truth.

Even if a woman KNOWS the survey is anonymous, there is a HUGE grey area that women do not count. You ask them "How many sexual partners have you had". If you are lucky, they will at least count all of the men who they have had actual intercourse with. Chances are most of them will only count actual "boyfriends" (this is especially true if it is a man asking his g/f directly). And most likely NONE of the women surveyed would include "sexual activity" that did not include intercourse, such as oral and anal sex and manual stimulation.

Reason #2- It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to get a truthful answer to many questions, simply because women lack the capacity for accountability and are deeply conditioned that certain behaviors are wrong. Basically, they believe their own bullsh!t..

Case in point.

We had a discussion recently about whether or not women tend to choose men who have a better ability to "provide".

Now I know for a common sense fact that ALL THINGS EQUAL, a woman will choose the man who shows the most potential to provide resources.

After a heated discussion I decided to google some info on mate selection and I ran across a study that asked women and men to rate certain qualities based upon how desirable they find them to be in a potential mate.
http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep01116126.pdf

Here is an excerpt from the article:



Alright. I'm no Einstein, but it is BLATANTLY obvious that these scientists DID NOT take into account the fact that a woman is going to be LESS likely to state that she prefers traits such as capability to earn, to have money, and to have a car, despite the fact that she DOES admit to having a preference for the base characteristics of a man who is capable of having such things.

In other words, if you ask a woman DIRECTLY if she prefers a man with earning capability, with money, or a man with a car, she will INEVITABLY deny the fact that she favors these traits due to the fact that in a woman's eyes, being labeled as a "golddigger" is almost as bad as being labeled as a "slut".

I have witnessed this on many occasions. If a woman is told "Women tend to prefer rich men", chances are she will go into defensive mode and completely deny that she would ever consider money (or other things that DIRECTLY signal the ability to provide resources) as a factor in selecting a mate. She will go out of her way to proclaim that "money doesn't matter", because that's what people are taught to say. What they DO on the other hand is completely different.

Now I can guaranFREAKINtee you that the vast, VAST majority of women out there would pick a rich guy over a poor guy, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. And the few who WOULDN'T choose the rich guy would likely make their choice based upon wanting to avoid the STIGMA associated with making that choice, and not their true preference.

Again, i know this is elementary knowledge, but I can't remember if we have ever gotten this deep into the psychology of the reasons why you can't listen to a woman's words.

I'm curious to see what everyone thinks about this.

Click to expand...

for the long haul this model, is pritty much correct.

But for sexual encounters, it matters little.

There are more things in play then just money, also getting a women based on 'attraction' can bring her into the LTR and avoid money altogether.

But remember this:

Not all men are rich there is only a small % and there are many many BF/GF and married guys who have humble means in this world.

your talking about modern western women, granted this applies to average modern western women, but i avoid them like the plague.

Women have been bred to worship materialism, even if the guy has means to support a good healthy long life, this means little to the average modern western women, she fundamentally wants it all and her entitlement syndrome will make her think she deserves it.

If its any better for you STR8UP, alot of these women are left on the scrap heap, when they realize they cant find a man who earns more then they do or they cant show them off to there mates, also this shallow means to attract a mate, if his circumstances change, trust me so will she, she will trade him in if she can. (or cut her losses and get a nice divorce pay-out, marriage is a dumb deal to a modern western women, REMEMBER ).

Why would any sane man even want to fall for a women who bases your worth on how much you earn or your earning potential? You'd have to be some sort of nut job to allow it.

No i don’t believe all women are like this, but in the western sphere, yes the majority are, that’s one of the problems, you can usually spot them i.e:

Carrier chicks.
chick who gravitate to the guys who look like they have money.
Are impressed by flash cars, houses, e.t.c
Ask you questions about your personal life after speaking to them for 2 seconds: What’s your job and how much do you earn (I get this a freaking LOT, But i dont entertain these type of women, too much hard work and if i wanted a prostitute i would get better then some average western women, put it that way).

I would not worry about it too much, there is nothing wrong with being single, i feel sorry for wage slaves and guys who are with vampires who are simply leaching from him, that’s not a way to live, these poor fuc*ers are usually working 50/70 hours a week to get away from the misses, also there is a very high chance the stunner who wants paid service, will get fat and ugly when she is comfortably set with 2point4 children.

Take it from me, dont EVER EVER try to earn more money or change your lifestyle for WOMEN, you dont have to make excuses for ANYTHING especially to what is fundamentally an entitlement WET HOLE, i would never try to increase my earnings to please or impress women, those type of women i can do with-out, i will leave those type of prostitutes to other men who need to impress women with financial statues, i have NO TIME FOR PRISSY PRINCESS'S, they would only be sport fuc*ed only.

It no loss when you think about it, none what so ever.

Average modern day western women do want the power and status, there nothing but shallow sheep conforming to any Cosmo' type mag they can find.

I don’t even like women who obsess about famous people or rich people or try to model themselves on fake edited models in magazines, but most women do it, they come across like there intelligent, i just look on them like animals being led, like children with no independent thought, just regurgitation what they read and the 'sister hood think mentality'.

There best avoided or sport fuc*ed only.

I see a few girls atm as you know and money IS NEVER A FACTOR, its not even mentioned, not all women are materialistic bots, granted most western women are.

Also you did not even hit on that women normally marry UP, now that’s research that will defiantly set the cat amongst the pigeons, so to say, even if you earned this fables great salary, there is no guarantee it will land you the women of your dreams, since she could be earning more then you.

I’d rather be single, free and have the world at my feet, then be some wage slave to a modern western women.

iqqi said:

A main part of your thread depends on this statement you keep stressing:



Hey STR8UP. The thing is, all things will never be equal.

You do know that right? You will never have two people who are exactly the same, and the only varietal is that one is rich and one is poor.

Women tend to look at the total package deal.

And yes, being able to provide is a plus.

Sorry to be the one to respond, as I know you probably don't appreciate it. :nervous:

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Sorry, iqqi. While I'm one of the few guys on here who tends to agree with you a lot, I don't see eye-to-eye with you on this. There are certain situations that you can put 99 percent of the female population in, and in those situations, a guy should read a girls' actions instead of her words. As STR8UP says, girls have an enormous tendency to believe their own bullsh!t, especially when it comes to their dealings with the opposite sex. I know this not because I read the SoSuave message boards, but because I have a mother and a sister, and I have dated/hooked-up with probably close to 50 girls/women throughout the course of adolescence/young adulthood. I have tons of female friends as well, some of whom I flirt with on occasion. The same holds true for them. Their actions speak a lot louder than their words.

For example, there is a girl who calls me, texts me or instant messages me almost on a nightly basis. Most of the time I don't respond, but that's beside the point. The point I'm trying to make is, she clearly is into me, but if I were to call her out on it tomorrow she would buckle and give some BS line like "Oh I just think your fun to talk to" or "You're a cool guy to be around". Something along those lines.

I don't think there is anything sexist or judgmental about this sentiment. It's just simply how it is. It shouldn't be hard to accept that each gender is going to inherently have some characteristics. I'm sure all guys have a tendency to behave in certain ways I probably don't even know about.

MikeYikes122 said:

a guy should read a girls' actions instead of her words. As STR8UP says, girls have an enormous tendency to believe their own bullsh!t, especially when it comes to their dealings with the opposite sex.

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I don't disagree with this. I find it to be true for both men and women. I only disagree with the part I quoted.

STR8UP's post seemed more to do with "finances matter most", more so then his title, which is basically saying that actions speak louder than words.

Danger said:

I agree with STR8UP.

All his post is saying is.....resources matter. Nothing could be more obvious.

However, the real point of contention is, how much do they matter?

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As long has your healthy, have a good place to crash, look after yourself and have means to entertain yourself in forms of cash THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS WITH WOMEN< everything else is Bullshi*< spun to chase materilistc western women that have NO VALUE other then there puss*.

Listen or become a wage slave.

Everything else in life in terms of progression should be done for you and you only, NEVER EVER EVER EVER x a billion chase money, power and fame to please a wet hole, chumps do that shi*, winners chase those things because they want them and women are simply a product of the act! not the foundation!!

The money mindset is only complimenting the prissy entitlement princess of this world, the only thing they deserve are cats, not MEN.

Do you understand?

In time you will.

Yeah Totally agree, women's words are never creditable. After men collectively experience millions even billions of women having this behavior over billions of cycles, women still deny it. If the fact women still continue to deny alone is not not proof beyond all doubt that they're not creditable and unable to judge themselves then I don't know what is. Everything a woman says is a manipulation to gain an advantage over a man.

If you hear women tell it, they almost all say, "I only have sex with nice guys who I care about". And they always say, "It's never about his fame, money & power, looks, and not being a nice guy". It IS always about those things.

If I were to rank i would bundle fame, power and money into status. and rank it like this: Status trumps looks, looks trump personality.


Another things is everything women say is subjective. They will say a guy is anice and good guy, when objectively he's manipulative and phony, and say and objectively good guy is a-hole, jerk etc. Nothing turns a woman off faster or pissss her off more than telling her the truth, the truth about herself and her actions or anything else that is true. That's the part I dislike most about women.

jonwon said:

As long has your healthy, have a good place to crash, look after yourself and have means to entertain yourself in forms of cash THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS WITH WOMEN< everything else is Bullshi*< spun to chase materilistc western women that have NO VALUE other then there puss*.

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I agree with your sentiments usually, but it isn't this simple. Men who are healthy with a place to crash and a little entertainment money are pretty common. Sure you can get sex with women (how desirabe they'll be is up for debate) without having money, fame and power, but it's going to rely on your looks and personality. Women like to say looks don't matter. The only thing women are semi-honest about is saying personality matters. However, they'e still dishonest even with that because they tell you to have the pc version of personality and not the one that would actually work. Add to this they rank personality highest and it's really not. It's not uncommon for men to fake a personality in the quest to find one to present that that women like.

I don't think we need an explanation on why we shouldn't take a women's word at face value, it should just be a given.

ketostix said:

I agree with your sentiments usually, but it isn't this simple. Men who are healthy with a place to crash and a little entertainment money are pretty common. Sure you can get sex with women (how desirabe they'll be is up for debate) without having money, fame and power, but it's going to rely on your looks and personality. Women like to dent looks matter. The only thing women are semi-honest about is personality matters. However, there still dishonest even with that because they tell you to have the pc version of personality and not the one that would actually work. Add to this they rank perosonality highest and it's really not. It's not uncommon for men to fake a personality in the quest tofind one that women like.

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I see alot of attractive women, infact i have one coming over this evening to see me.

She is paying for the wine, i am cooking the food.

She has no desire for my money (i earn an average wage anyway) yet she is till coming over.

Granted i would not say i am ugly, but time and time again i see men with modest means get attractive women who LOVE MEN, not materilism.

Your talking about modern average western women, trust me there is a difference, granted it is hard to spot since so MANY are like this but know this: NOT ALL.

And being a slave to what others think about you is a false path to travel on, you should never ever live your life to please others EVER, including the image of some super women at the end of a career ladder.

Your ideals are wrong in this instance (i do normally love your advice also, but i have to call it when i see it), they have a solid base, but when all is said and done, just because your surrounded by shi* does not mean you have to dive in head first, its a pitty most men think there not worth more then whats in there wallet, i really do pitty this ideal.

Live for you, women are a complimentery, never ever ever live your life to impress any women, NEVER! Men dont go out of there way to impress women with statements of wealth, chumps do that, then they get fuc*ed over when there circumstances change.

Please listen.

If your not getting results in women, its because your gaming the wrong ones, there are plenty of women out there, you need to NEXT and move on, sadly the ratio of prissy princess is high in the western sphere, but when all is said and done, your BETTER off single then being a wage slave or seen as a walking wallet, never ever comprimise your self respect EVER, hold out for women worth your time and in that you may be suprised how many women actually drift into your life.

Being a slave to a corrupt system does not make it correct or right, your still simply a slave to puss*, i know NO MAN who gets alot of women by being a slave to puss*, none at all and tying your worth to your financial status has a MAN in terms of WHAT WOMEN WANT, is being a slave to puss*, trust me on this, its a path best not travelled.

No good can come of it.

I hear what you saying but these men in all respects are AFC's, there are plenty of wealthy AFC's about also, money and wealth does not make you a AFC or a DJ, the persons mind set does.

I can state just has many rich guys who are hopeless with women, all you need to do is go to a gold digging bar, trust me THERE ARE ALOT OF THEM, you just have most probably not seen them, there usually in hotels or trendy wine bars, its full of rich AFC men and gold-diggers, where the men slap a bundle of hundred notes on the bar when there ordering a £3 pound ****tail, its pathetic.

Jonwon I think you're misunderstanding my point.

Granted i would not say i am ugly, but time and time again i see men with modest means get attractive women who LOVE MEN, not materilism.

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I don't see a lot of attractive women with men of modest means especially past college age, but I agreed that a man could get an attractive woman based on his appearance and game (I don't consider game being yourself really though).

Your talking about modern average western women, trust me there is a difference, granted it is hard to spot since so MANY are like this but know this: NOT ALL.

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I agree modern western women are the worst but here in the US I only have access to modern western women. Some are better than others and some are worse than others, but they're all similar. It's in women's universal nature to be attracted to means and status. I've said you can get fairly attractive women without money and status but not just because you're a man, but a man with some looks and game. The point of Str8up's thread is we would not go to women to tell us what kind of game works.

If your not getting results in women, its because your gaming the wrong ones, there are plenty of women out there, you need to NEXT and move on, sadly the ratio of prissy princess is high in the western sphere, but when all is said and done, your BETTER off single

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Is the guy gaming the wrong or bad women or is he just gaming women and they're all pretty much the same except the right ones like his particular looks and his particular game?

My other point is, even you jonwon aren't really being yourself and not caring about what people think when gaming women. For instance, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say the things you say on here to women you're gaming, but a woman would and she'd get away with it.

It's not so much of me disagreeing as it is that I think you thought I said something I didn't.

ketostix said:

Jonwon I think you're misunderstanding my point.



I don't see a lot of attractive women with men of modest means especially past college age, but I agreed that a man could get an attractive woman based on his appearance and game (I don't consider game being yourself really though).



I agree modern western women are the worst but here in the US I only have access to modern western women. Some are better than others and some are worse than others, but they're all similar. It's in women'suniversal nature to be attracted to means and status. I've said you can get fairly attractive women without money and status but not just because you're a man, but a man with some looks and game. the point of Str8up's thread is we would not go to women totell us what kind of game works.



Is the guy gaming the wrong or bad women or is just gaming women and they're all pretty much the same except the right ones like his particular looks and his particular game?

My other point is, even you jonwon aren't really being yourself and not caring about what people think when gaming women. For instance, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say the things you say on here to women, but a woman would and she'd get away with it.

It's not so much of me disagree is that I think you thought I said something I didn't.

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I say this stuff all the time to women, some women are great to talk to, i am emailing one now and taking the pis8 out her feminist statements, she is finding it amusing and i am going with that angle, its alot of fun.

I see where your coming from, i too used to think like this, you know i have a very postive or negative outlook on women, but at the end of the day, i do come across women that do break the mould and are not what poeple assume they are to be, not all square pegs fit the round hole.

Granted most women are fuc*ing appauling, sites like this would not exist if this was no so, but then again, i aint going to state that all women are money grabbing types either when i know there not.

My Ex wife earned more then i did, that was never an issue, there where other issues in my marriage, granted it could be to do with money, but if it was it was simply a small % of the bigger problems, i.e a none issue really.

I am sure loads of other men can claim they had good times with women who did not see them has walking wallets.

Yes the ratio is very high, it is very sad in truth most women are so stuck on materilism land (must buy, must buy must buy must buy, must shop e.t.c) to see anything out of the loop, but WE LIVE in a materilistic western world, it is what we are, we buy to feel better, we buy to impress, we shop for that feeling of importance and women in there group think are caught up in this trivality more then men, hence yes there money hungry fuc*ers, but at the end of the day there nothing but sheep to pity.

Not all women are like this, even though a large % are, these women that see you has a walking wallet, need to be treated like a walking puss* because at the end of the day, there no better then you, if they want to sell there puss*, why deny them the option?

Also being a playa e.t.c is not a set of rules also, it is a mind set, much like a DJ, when you fully understand it all becomes clear, you avoid what is bad for you and stick to what is good, granted i have ideals around marriage that some see has negative, to me there positive, still i wont blame all women and lable them entitlment prissy princess, modern western women are but no ALL.

Playa's e.t.c are only playing women at there own game but EVERY one would love to meet the women where they dont need to chase anymore, every-one if they tell you different there not telling your the truth, the DJ mindset is about self development, making you the prize, which takes it a step further and when embraced, shows you dont need to conform, all you need to do is become, do it for you not for women, never ever for women, it lacks GAME.

A set of player rules and DJ tips are not false statements, granted some PUA stuff is monkey tricks I NEVER DO MONKEY TRICKS, there false, but learning to accept yourself is not a trick it is an essential requirement, never judge your worth on what women think about your financial status, NEVER!

Its hard to break this trend by most people since where so stuck in the constant bombardment of materilsim, dam its fuc*ing everywhere and i mean everywhere, you cant avoid it.

I talked to one girl, i told her i wanted to be rich, she said, "what do you want to be rich for it wont bring you happiness", a few days later i was sleeping with her.

"If a woman would ƒuck in a cardboard box, a man would never buy a house." - Martin Lawrence

swifTy said:

in other words.....everything matters!!

money; looks; confidence; status; personality; influence; dominance......the whole shebang.....you need it all >>> and then some.

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Why do people B!TCH about this?

As a man, don't you WANT:

-Money
-Good looks
-Confidence
-Status
-Personality
-Influence
-Dominance

???

It's not about the number on your bank statement.

Look at it this way...have you ever wanted to go out on a Friday night and called up some of your friends, and they've said, "Nah, we're too broke. We'd rather stay home and play Nintendo and smoke weed." Didn't you wish you had better friends?

Now imagine you're a girl...your girlfriends tell you about this fancy new restaurant and the food/experience sounds delicious...and you tell your boyfriend, "Let's go!!" In response, he says, "Nah, let's stay in and watch a DVD instead." Is it really about the money? Suppose you're a multi-billionaire. Do you think she'll be any less disappointed if you want to stay home and watch TV?

It's not how much "bling" you have. Jewelry, fast cars, etc...they're all trim. What's IMPORTANT is what the things are that you WANT to do in your life and whether or not you have the ambition to DO them. Being able to AFFORD them is part of that. But honestly, it's NOT the hardest part.

No, if you're not fabulously wealthy, you're NOT going to be able to afford to hang in the lifestyle of a woman who was raised in a rich family on constant holiday.

But do you really have anything in common with such a woman anyway? Or are you just chasing "T&A" and not worrying about compatibility?

If "T&A" is all you're after, you DON'T need to be rich to bag a high-maintenance b!tch. If you're looking for more than that, then you should be looking for a woman who has more in common with your way of life. If you're spending money to try to bag hot women, it's a poor investment in every sense. Check this out: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=131815

The "slave to looks" attitude that most men have is not a problem that needs solving, it's a problem that needs eliminating. Of course you want a woman who takes care of herself physically, but the exchange rate is so out of proportion between male money and female looks that you're better off with a 7.5 that you enjoy hanging out with than a 9.5 that's otherwise relatively boring.

Danger said:

However, the real point of contention is, how much do they matter?

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Well, since you asked...

http://laddertheory.com/ratingsystem.htm

iqqi said:

A main part of your thread depends on this statement you keep stressing:



Hey STR8UP. The thing is, all things will never be equal.

You do know that right? You will never have two people who are exactly the same, and the only varietal is that one is rich and one is poor.

Women tend to look at the total package deal.

And yes, being able to provide is a plus.

Sorry to be the one to respond, as I know you probably don't appreciate it. :nervous:

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For once I agree with your entire post.

Of course nothing is ever equal. But if we were able to equalize the playing field we would see that 9 out of 10 times a woman will pick a rich guy over a poor guy, and the 10th woman probably has some "issues" that would make her undesirable anyway.

The point of this post wasn't to get back into that debate again. Nobody will ever be able to come up with a formula to follow that will allow you to build yourself in a way that will attract ALL women. But we can arrive at some conclusions as to the certain things that women IN GENERAL look for, EXCEPT we have to AVOID asking direct questions, as a direct question when it has to do with mate choice or, basically "money" will not be answered truthfully.

iqqi said:

When this is a woman's number one factor, then she is first and foremost a gold digger.

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See....if you truly ARE a woman, iqqi, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Denial isn't just a river in Eqypt. Recently in the DJ chat Penkitten and LovelyLady VEHEMENTLY stated the same thing. I couldn't disagree more.

Again, this thread wasn't intended to reopen that debate, although now i can see that it's going to.

Okay, let me backtrack a little. If a woman is ONLY out for money, yes, she is a golddigger. But where do we draw the line? What if she is "primarily" looking out for a good provider, and doesn't care as much about looks or any other traits? Is she still a golddigger?

But none of that matters, because the point is that women will not acknowledge that money is a factor, yet they WILL acknowledge that they seek the TRAITS that a man who has the capability to earn money will possess. Basically, they are so good at lying to themselves that they have a lot of men convinced of this as well!

i agree completely with squirrels...

as a MAN why would you NOT want those things for YOURSELF? as a society, no matter how far you look back, we have been programmed as PROVIDERS.

the question is, not being capable to provide, does this make us less of a man??

again as it was said previously, if you are looking for a ONS or simply trying to get laid. is any of this relevant? i would have to say no. You can "perceive" to be anything or have anything you desire. based on that perception you can accomplish whatever you devious mind desires.

this thread as taken a complete left turn from its OP, but i do think its an interesting topic.