A Misconception about Marriage

What has amazed me about this place for all the years I've been here is the generally negative opinion that people have about marriage and even LTRs. I keep reading from experienced Don Juans about the "institution of marriage." Instead of looking at all the failed marriages all over the world, start looking at the CAUSE of them (and no, it's not money)

In most of the failed relationships and marriages I've seen, there is one root cause: the guy is an AFC. He allows the woman to treat him like garbage, spend all his money, and fvck his best friend, and yet he still remains faithful for the sake of love or for the children.

If you look back at marriages before women's rights came into play and society labelled women as creatures to be worshipped, divorce was WAY down, and it's not all because of the shame that came with a failed marriage. The woman stayed home doing the cooking, cleaning, and raising the kids while the man went to work. The woman wouldn't dare say that she "won't be the traditional woman", and that she will do anything she wants. She respected her husband, because he wouldn't put up with her bull5hit.

Things have been flipped upside down today. The woman is generally the one who wears the pants in the family, and she makes decisions based on her emotions while the man blindly goes along with them. He'll experience frustration, sadness, confusion, and will remain unhappy because men are SUPPOSED to sacrifice themselves for the beautiful woman.

Thus, marriage is an institution for the AFC. A Don Juan wouldn't let it become an institution. He wouldn't marry a woman who constantly treats him with disrespect, and he'd put his foot down if the woman happened to cross the wrong line. Women will respect a man that shows leadership, and stands up for himself. These are things that most men today do not posess, and that's why a Don Juan would succeed at marriage.

Good post.

I agree; dont be afraid of marriage. Instead, possibly be afraid of yourself. If you're an AFC, its going to manifest itself in your life whether you're married or not. If you're a DJ, you have nothing to worry about; even in a marriage.

Married/Not married is mutually exclusive from AFC vs DJ.

azanon said:

Good post.

I agree; dont be afraid of marriage. Instead, possibly be afraid of yourself. If you're an AFC, its going to manifest itself in your life whether you're married or not. If you're a DJ, you have nothing to worry about; even in a marriage.

Married/Not married is mutually exclusive from AFC vs DJ.

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I agree with you too.

Great post Des...

azanon said:

Good post.

I agree; dont be afraid of marriage. Instead, possibly be afraid of yourself. If you're an AFC, its going to manifest itself in your life whether you're married or not. If you're a DJ, you have nothing to worry about; even in a marriage.

Married/Not married is mutually exclusive from AFC vs DJ.

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This is true. I believe a DJ is actually more selective about the woman he'll marry. He's not enthralled with the idealized romance of marriage but recognizes that there is an established mutual value in the existing relationship as opposed to hoping what marrying the woman might eventually bring.

Having had 2 “marital experiments” consisting of 3 years and 21 years I have quite a bit of cogitating on this one. My first one was a joke, just plain bad judgment on both our parts. Weren’t together long enough to be AFC. The second one does fit what you state quite well.

During the first 15 years of the marriage my spousal unit stayed home with our first 2 kids. I worked and she took care of the kids and home. We both look back on those years as pretty damn good. For some crazy reason we decided to have 2 more kids. I did not make enough dough for that so she went to work and we became “modern” with all the trappings.

I was guilty as charged for becoming AFC as a mother*ucker, blindly let her do ****; and of course, the outcome was predictable.

Although I question the institution of marriage it’s not necessarily because I was an AFC, bitter, or, um, still owe my lawyer quite a bit of money.

A point I made in a recent post is that I think the old definition of “Marriage” of being two people loving only each other their entire lives is no longer applicable because people live so much longer now than before. “’Til death do us part” means something a helluva lot different when your life expectancy is 26 than when it is 76. People change and grow too much to expect them to be together for what, 50 or 60 years.

So, I’m not against men and women in LTR’s or Marriage, I just think that it’s unrealistic to expect it to last your whole very long life.

For the benefit of others...

blindly let her do ****;

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....what do you mean with the above quote?

Thanks.

Nice post. I agree.
Would love to read more about it.

Latinoman said:

For the benefit of others...



....what do you mean with the above quote?

Thanks.

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That got bleeped out:

“Fecal material” = Let her make too many decisions, I was too passive, too agreeable, and yeah, I put on the apron. I now blame it all on Phil Donahue, bastard. LOL.

Nope, it was classic AFC, all my fault.

Two things:

1. Unfortunately, what a lot of men call marriage today doesn't ALWAYS include total fidelity. I'm surprised about how many guys on here, and how many guys I know in REAL life, who don't consider getting themselves "a little on the side" the same thing as breaking their marriage vows/contract. lol

2. And another thing that I've noticed on this board and in my own life is this:

Sometimes, we men, in an effort to harden ourelves emotionally against the "dangers" of approaching women and fukk closing women successfully, pay a BIG, but mostly SUBCONCIOUS, price for it.

The price I see that many have usually paid HERE is that they think of women, not as worthwhile human beings, but as "prey" ONLY-----pieces of MEAT to be targeted, hunted, caught, and consumed by our own lust.

This mindset alone is enough to make a lot of guys devalue women to the utmost. And I think this is to our shame. Those who embrace this way of thinking, I believe, do so to their own detriment. And they are worse off because of it.

It's like they've allowed DJing to become a self-dense tactic that has become overblown to such an extent where the former victim (men) has now taken on the role of victimizer----and he's VERY comfortable with it.lol

It's like in an effort to make ourselves THE PRIZE, many of us here have made women merely a living tool for masturbation----to be used first, then thrown away with the same nonchalance as a soiled kleenex. And it's hard to wanna marry somebody you have absolutely NO respect for.

Think about it...

Victory Unlimited said:

Two things:

1. Unfortunately, what a lot of men call marriage today doesn't ALWAYS include total fidelity. I'm surprised about how many guys on here, and how many guys I know in REAL life, who don't consider getting themselves "a little on the side" the same thing as breaking their marriage vows/contract. lol

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Marriage is first and foremost a legal arrangement that has associated benefits. If someone is married, fooling around doesn't change that. It might be grounds for one partner breaking the marriage though. So, i see your point, but I also don't see it.

2. And another thing that I've noticed on this board and in my own life is this:

Sometimes, we men, in an effort to harden ourelves emotionally against the "dangers" of approaching women and fukk closing women successfully, pay a BIG, but mostly SUBCONCIOUS, price for it.

The price I see that many have usually paid HERE is that they think of women, not as worthwhile human beings, but as "prey" ONLY-----pieces of MEAT to be targeted, hunted, caught, and consumed by our own lust.

This mindset alone is enough to make a lot of guys devalue women to the utmost. And I think this is to our shame. Those who embrace this way of thinking, I believe, do so to their own detriment. And they are worse off because of it.

It's like they've allowed DJing to become a self-dense tactic that has become overblown to such an extent where the former victim (men) has now taken on the role of victimizer----and he's VERY comfortable with it.lol

It's like in an effort to make ourselves THE PRIZE, many of us here have made women merely a living tool for masturbation----to be used first, then thrown away with the same nonchalance as a soiled kleenex. And it's hard to wanna marry somebody you have absolutely NO respect for.

Think about it...

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Maybe this is true for some people, but its not for me. For me, its choice A&B. I really like the creatures myself. Not just the sex, but I like a lot of things about them. And i'm certainly always aware that they're people too. I think a respectable DJ will always realize and treat them like people with feelings.

Desdinova said:

Thus, marriage is an institution for the AFC. A Don Juan wouldn't let it become an institution. He wouldn't marry a woman who constantly treats him with disrespect, and he'd put his foot down if the woman happened to cross the wrong line. Women will respect a man that shows leadership, and stands up for himself. These are things that most men today do not posess, and that's why a Don Juan would succeed at marriage.

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Excellent post.

I have experience in this area. In my first marriage I was a hopeless AFC. I allowed her to "wear the pants" and eventually she went from head over heels in love to dumping me and moving on.

I was married to my current wife in July after a year of dating. This relationship is the opposite of my first marriage. I purposefully lead the relationship to where I wanted it to go from the very beginning. I resisted the urge to spend every free moment with her and to put her on a pedestal and to supplicate myself to her needs. I made her assume the responsibility for her own happiness and always called her on her bull**** and was always prepared for her tests (because I don't care who the woman is, she will test you from the start and it will never end).

We always went dutch on our dates. I didn't spend a dime on her until we had been dating for 6 months. We did action dates in the beginning, and the dates we always of my choosing. Most of the time she didn't even know until we got there what we would be doing.

I firmly believe that the man must be the leader of the relationship in order for it to be successful. This isn't something I believe because David DeAngelo of whoever says thats the way to do it: I believe it because I have tried it myself both ways, and I've seen the results with my own eyes. (nothing against David D, I'm a huge fan actually).

Along with the leadership comes great responsibility. I consider myself responsible for her interest level in me remaining high, and I also take on the responsibility of making sure our sex is spontaneous and of a very high quality. This is in addition to other responsibilities like managing our finances and etc.

I strive every day to be the best leader I possibly can.

I've learned that I have natural leadership abilities, but that due mostly to my social conditioning, I was afraid to use them in my relationships because I thought I would be holding her back or oppressing her in some way. I've met a woman who wants and needs my leadership, and she truly appreciates it. Unfortunately, women her type are becoming more and more scarce as women today are raised to not defer to a man under any circumstances.

Great post, and perfect timing since I've been thinking about marriage lately.

I met up with a female friend from high school over the weekend. We had not seen each other in six years, and she married the only guy she dated in college. All of my friends and I wanted her - and we all tried, failing miserably. Sure enough her marriage is exactly what I'm hoping to find: they have some common interests, they have their own lives, and she's not even close to being the typical American girl with wishy-washy dreams of a blissful super-sappy romantic marriage. Heck, he's in grad school right now because he wants to do better in life and she's supporting him any way she can. And her and her man, after being together about eight years total now, are both still in good shape - no wonder we all wanted her in high school. It gave me hope that I really could find a woman worth being with. Too bad this one's taken.

Desdinova said:

Giving a woman a gift when she's pissed off is like rewarding your dog for 5hitting on the carpet."
- Desdinova .

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I knew there was a reason why I always loved Des's post and it wasn't cuz of the content, its all in the sig

Victory Unlimited said:

Two things:

1. Unfortunately, what a lot of men call marriage today doesn't ALWAYS include total fidelity. I'm surprised about how many guys on here, and how many guys I know in REAL life, who don't consider getting themselves "a little on the side" the same thing as breaking their marriage vows/contract. lol

2. And another thing that I've noticed on this board and in my own life is this:

Sometimes, we men, in an effort to harden ourelves emotionally against the "dangers" of approaching women and fukk closing women successfully, pay a BIG, but mostly SUBCONCIOUS, price for it.

The price I see that many have usually paid HERE is that they think of women, not as worthwhile human beings, but as "prey" ONLY-----pieces of MEAT to be targeted, hunted, caught, and consumed by our own lust.

This mindset alone is enough to make a lot of guys devalue women to the utmost. And I think this is to our shame. Those who embrace this way of thinking, I believe, do so to their own detriment. And they are worse off because of it.

It's like they've allowed DJing to become a self-dense tactic that has become overblown to such an extent where the former victim (men) has now taken on the role of victimizer----and he's VERY comfortable with it.lol

It's like in an effort to make ourselves THE PRIZE, many of us here have made women merely a living tool for masturbation----to be used first, then thrown away with the same nonchalance as a soiled kleenex. And it's hard to wanna marry somebody you have absolutely NO respect for.

Think about it...

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Very insightful.

The reason why I'm against marriage is that I don't want kids.

Marriage only happens when both of you get to the stage in your life where you can't get any better and want kids, or for her she runs out of time (biological clock). That's why it's called settling down. i.e. Settle for her/him.

For a guy to get married for any other reason is lunacy as chances are, you earn more than her so you will be financially worse off in marriage than not and definately when/if you get divorced.

The other reason guys get married is pressure from the women, she wants financial security. After alll that's all it is, a financial contract rapped up with bull**** notions of love and religion.

d9930380 said:

The reason why I'm against marriage is that I don't want kids.

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This is a fallacy many men make. You can't corrolate marriage with kids because they're two totally different obstacles to hurdle over.

Marriage only happens when both of you get to the stage in your life where you can't get any better and want kids, or for her she runs out of time (biological clock). That's why it's called settling down. i.e. Settle for her/him.

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This airs a ring of truth for women. Men, however, have the luxury to be selective in thier mate. True some men get caught up in the "Love" aspect of it and, acting on their AFC'ishness, completely shun thier personal responsiblities by knocking up a woman and failing to live by any sort of standards. At the very least a paternity test should be a prerequisite before marriage.

The other reason guys get married is pressure from the women, she wants financial security. After alll that's all it is, a financial contract rapped up with bull**** notions of love and religion.

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This is another reason for women to pressure guys into tying the noose, I mean knot.

KarmaSutra - Marriage is the backbone of the family, i.e. kids. It gives them a stable family to be raised in. Why else do you want to get married and why are they different?

As for knocking up a girl and leaving her. I agree that this is wrong and guys should meet their responsibilities but this only happens if you make a mistake, not use contraception or believing she has.

The reason why it rings truth for women is because women are FAR more practical than most men and normally know the score.

d9930380 said:

KarmaSutra - Marriage is the backbone of the family

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I wholeheartedly disagree friend. You mean to say that kids are more stable in a violent / unfullfilling co-existence that veils itself under the guise of marriage? I consider a strong moral character and respect in oneself paramount to raising children. Being married doesn't matter worth a fvck.

Having been married, I can tell you it's much more complex than one gives it credit for before having done it. Having been divorced, I can tell you the matriarchal/feminist court system all but forces the male to become an AFC. Women go into marriage knowing they've already won the divorce settlement.

I lived with my ex for 5 years before we got married. The difference was subtle but tangible right out of the gate. Her sense of entitlement skyrocketed. She was no longer on her best behavior, because all the marital assets, so she thought, were at least half hers. She no longer had to back down on power struggles because her mother clued her in to how much I'd owe her in child support if one of us walked. Suddenly, her childish whims carried legal weight. It was a recipe for divorce. Our relationship took a turn for the worse right after the honeymoon.

Of course, the reaction to the increased relationship power a woman gains by getting married depends on the woman. I have seen women who are dedicated to the relationship, and mature enough, not to let it affect their behavior. But I don't think this is something you can gauge before taking the plunge, you can only guess.

For a DJ, or any man who wants to control his own life, marriage is Russian Roulette.

Also, a MARRIED DJ is showing AFC characteristics. First and foremost, he's saying to the world that quality women for him are getting scarce. He's also giving the woman what SHE wants, at great expense to himself. Notice, there is no "GROOM" magazine. Men are at best indifferent about getting married. Engagement alone shows large flaws in a DJ's armor.