Committed Relationships, Boundaries, and Cheating

I'm seeing a surprising amount of guys these days get burned by women cheating or branch swinging. I really can't stand what is becoming of relationships and this is as much for me as it is for all of you. Ladies, if you're in a committed monogamous relationship then there are some things you just don't do--you don't touch, kiss, fvck, suck, or jerk off other guys when you're seeing someone, and better yet...don't even put yourself in a situation where that can occur in the first place! These rules should be a given when discussing each other's boundaries, such as what you both consider as cheating. Unfortunately a lot of people are getting burned by this assumption--this is why I always tell guys you've got to cover this stuff sooner rather than later when you start dating. I too learned an important lesson recently about a few of these points, so this is fresh in my mind. In my opinion it is when you decide to be monogamous and solidify what your relationship status is that that's when it's time to explain what it means to you to be in serious relationship. Where I failed was I didn't explain I expect a certain level of commitment in a monogamous relationship, namely that if she starts to feel something for someone else that I'm to know about it and she's to cut off all contact with the other person. If she cannot fulfill that commitment to me, then she's not relationship material as far as I'm concerned.

When it comes to boundaries, they really are up to you what you want them to be. If the woman you're seeing can't commit to honoring them, then so be it and you part ways. It's that simple. You don't back-slide, you don't let her pressure you into something you're not comfortable with, and you don't compromise your standards. You don't even have to explain why something is out of bounds for you, just that it is. If it's fairly reasonable request, such as no sleeping over at another man's house, and she's committed to you, then she should want to make you happy and be comfortable by way of honoring your boundaries. My advice is to sit her down and clearly articulate what your boundaries are, that trust is something that is hard to build and takes time, but is fragile and easily broken. Basically let her know in clear terms what your standards and expectations of behavior are on her part, and what will happen if she fails to measure up (eg dumping her). Hopefully this conversation isn't the result of her having already done something that crossed the line for you and you're in damage control mode. Again, this is a conversation that needs to happen sooner rather than later. The high points are to figure out what your respective boundaries are, what qualifies as cheating, inappropriate behavior, what you're comfortable with and not comfortable with, and so on.


As for cheating, I believe there are generally two types:

1. The first type of cheating is the alcohol fueled libido in overdrive "it just happened" or "one thing led to another" hookup. Think of it as leveraging her Buying Temperature. This is the kind of thing that happens when women go to the bar or club without their guy to keep an eye on things, or duck out and hookup with a guy on the sly. It's pretty simple and can be mitigated in most cases by the SO just being present and keeping an eye on things. "Mate guarding" if you will. Unfortunately, with women nowadays you just can't take the chance with "trust" because it's just not that simple. I've seen guys in the community do some fvcked up stuff over the years. One I remember was a guy in our local community in DC pulled a girl in a venue who's bf and girfriends were right there, said they would be right back getting drinks or something, and he nailed her in the alley (or was it his car?) next to the club. They went back inside like nothing ever happened and her bf and friends were non the wiser. Others have done similar with bathroom pulls, car pulls, etc. Know this: Stuff like that happens every weekend in bars and clubs around the country, it's a reality you must be mindful of, and that's why I'm adamantly opposed to women you're in a relationship with going out unsupervised where there will be strange men and booze. Mate guarding is a thing because it's necessary, and more now than ever IMO. Trust, but verify.

When I go out with a woman I'm involved with, she basically never leaves my sight. Literally. I walk with her to the bathroom if we're they're by ourselves and/or wait for her nearby so the door is in sight, and never give the opportunity to be cheated on in a setting such as this. Now I want you to understand something: That's not because she's a cheater--I do trust her. If a woman is intent on cheating, then she'll find a way of making it happen. We'll assume for a moment we've already screened for women who won't cheat on their own conscious accord (see below). I'm talking about recognizing signs when a woman who otherwise wouldn't cheat is getting into libido overdrive from booze (inhibitions are removed or reduced), because it's in that mental state women are in that many men have been burned by that results in "one thing led to another" and/or "it just happened". Your job is to prevent that kind of thing from happening by denying the opportunity for that to occur (eg keeping her by your side, watching the door, etc). Saying you can choose women who won't be susceptible to that is foolish. ALL women are susceptible to it because alcohol affects them the same, and a guy with decent game can swoop in and capitalize in the heat of the moment thanks to buying temperature, regardless of whether she's a "good girl" or not. More on that dynamic can be read here:

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/good-girls-do/

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/plate-theory-v-ladys-game/

Gentlemen, as I’m fond of saying, women will ****. They may not **** you, they may not **** me, but they will **** someone. The girl who bangs the hot guy at the foam party in Cancun on Spring Break within 5 minutes of meeting him is the same girl who want’s you to believe that they’ll only **** one guy at a time and then after commitment. All women are sexual, you just need to be the right guy at the right time for the job.

Click to expand...

I've been the right guy at the right time, and I and friends have gotten cheated on by gf's who ended up with other guys who were the right guy at the right time. In my case it was an ex that went to a house party when I was out of state and she slept over because she knew the hosts, and fv]cked a dude in their bathroom just because she was drunk & horny. "It just happened". Normally she'd have never done that, but because I didn't know about boundaries and lay down the law, she did something inappropriate (go to a party without me), and "one thing led to another".


2. The second type of cheating is when the person is of poor character and fails to fulfill their commitment to their SO by removing themselves from the source of temptation. This is what I meant above by not putting yourself in the situation for cheating to occur in the first place. If a person doesn't abide by this common sense rule and does it anyway then they're of poor character, simple as that. This is the kind of cheating you hear about when people say, "if they want to cheat, they'll find a way". Sometimes they use the above type of cheating as an excuse, but don't be fooled.

As far as I'm concerned, if you find yourself starting to become attracted to another person, have lustful feelings for them, or anything along those lines, you have to cut off all contact with that person. Period. That's what it means to be committed to your SO. If you can't fulfill this basic requirement then you're not relationship material and of poor character IMO. And you know what guys? Women do this ALL. THE. TIME. It's at the core of branch swinging (women don't generally leave a relationship until they have another one lined up), so what's that tell you about most women these days?

If it sounds like I have a very low opinion of women and female sexuality it's because they've earned it in my eyes. I've been involved in the community long enough that it's very difficult for me to trust women, not to mention 20 years experience in dating and relationships and have seen friends get destroyed by their wives/girlfriends cheating on them. I've also been regularly involved in the bar/club scene for, oh, 12 years now and have seen all of the above so many times it's not even funny. I know what happens behind closed doors or when people are off on their own where others can't keep an eye on things, especially when booze is involved.

Guys, take a stand, have standards, and cut them loose if when they fvck up. If she doesn't understand why you think something is inappropriate (like staying overnight some place that there will be other men), then you've got to do what you've got to do. Many guys will back-peddle and try to explain things, but that's a fool's errand. All you have to do is articulate what your boundaries are, that's all that matters. Why something is qualified as out of bounds is inconsequential IMO. She either honors your boundaries to make you happy and comfortable, or she shows her true colors and disrespects your relationship and pisses it away by her actions.

Bottom line, the path to preventing cheating is having standards, screening women for solid character, establishing boundaries, and denying drunken hookup situations from happening by being vigilant and/or avoiding the situation in the first place. I'll say it again since many of you are active in the nightlife scene and go out all the time: Have clearly articulated boundaries and find a woman who respects your them and you. For some reason a lot of people get it in their head that this is possessive behavior. It's not.

Dear Nutz,
A very well thought through exposition,cogently put...I agree with everything you say...That's this evening....but to be fair, I think of the number of times I have cheated.....lets face it,to weak willed guys like me,in the heat of the moment I will promise them the Eiffel Tower...Then time passes,and something new looks good to me, and there you are,another broken promise,another lolly pop finished!

Scaramouche said:

Dear Nutz,
A very well thought through exposition,cogently put...I agree with everything you say...That's this evening....but to be fair, I think of the number of times I have cheated.....lets face it,to weak willed guys like me,in the heat of the moment I will promise them the Eiffel Tower...Then time passes,and something new looks good to me, and there you are,another broken promise,another lolly pop finished!

Click to expand...

Well, most of what I said above does apply in the other direction too, but it's still not quite the same from a risk perspective for most relationships because, well, guys don't have the ease and opportunity to cheat like women do. It all comes down to two things: in the drunken hookup cheating, women should also mate guard. In the character version, even if the guy has feelings for the other woman, she's probably not reciprocating (think nice guys who are friend-zoned). The guy should still come clean and cut contact with the other woman. The normal guy thing of simply being physically attracted doesn't cut it. People of both sex see others they think are hot and don't cheat, and in that type of simple "he/she is hot" I don't think it's necessary to go no-contact. That's for when there's an actual emotional or lustful attraction that is prerequisite for cheating to occur.

Danger said:

Remember, the one thing that men and women have in common, is that neither of them trust women.

Click to expand...

Words to live by.

Nutz that was a very well composed post and I wholeheartedly agree with your take on boundaries. It's rational, effective, and acts as an insurance plan for you, should she screw up. Like you said and many others have said, it has to be done in the very early stages of the relationship.

There are a few things I'd like to address, however:

Nutz said:

namely that if she starts to feel something for someone else that I'm to know about it and she's to cut off all contact with the other person.

Click to expand...

This isnt very realistic. That's not how women work, and really that's not how life works. YOU may operate from this philosophy, but those are your morals and men in general are more observant and cognizant of "honor" principles like this.

When a woman starts to have feelings for another man, whether they be sexual or romantic, her instinct isnt going to be to tell YOU. Even if you expect her and told her to tell you. She will toy with it in her mind for a while, wrestle with the guilt and the excitement, maintain face with you and eventually justify whatever happened post-hoc as a heat of the moment thing. This is standard female behavior and outlining a boundary there wont change a damn thing, except planting the seed in her mind that if you find out you are gone, instantly.

Nutz said:

I'm adamantly opposed to women you're in a relationship with going out unsupervised where there will be strange men and booze.

Click to expand...

This actually isnt a bad idea on paper, but I think a lot of your opinions here are a function of your involvement in the bar/club scene for the last 12 years. I dont see this type of behavior nearly as much as you do, although I do believe it happens.

I have been the guy who had a friend tell me they saw my gf grinding up on some dude's c0ck at the bar last night. It sucks. I've also been the guy grinding up on some other dude's gf, no doubt....although not since college.

I can honestly say though that with my current and previous girlfriend, I would have no problems with them going out without me. It rarely happens, but that's just been my experience with them and our relationships. I think it's a function of 1- their age (early 30's), 2- the type of person they are (good character), and 3- our social habits. I myself am not a big bar/club guy and neither are they so it eliminates that potential problem.

Loyalty is becoming a dying virtue. It's successor is impetuous gratification. At any rate, I agree that the best course of action for an aware, mature DJ is---

1. Qualify, qualify, qualify. (interest level, character, past behavior, etc)
2. Boundaries as soon as the relationship goes exclusive
3. Keep your own side of the street clean
4. Be vigilant, but don't put too much of the responsibility on yourself. You shouldn't have to feel like you need to be Captain C0ckblock whenever she leaves the house.

It comes down to the basic axiom that you can only control yourself.

It's unfortunate that more women can't keep on the staight and narrow but part of the problem is guys tolerating bad behavior and not 86'ing women for their bad behavior.

Each time a guy doesn't 86 a girl when he should he screws it up for all guys because when that woman eventually leaves she believes that her behavior is acceptable and she becomes a problem with the next guy to deal with.

Lay down your boundaries at the begining but never tell a woman what she can't do (because she will do it to spite you) just imply that there are consequences to her actions and a consequence can be you leaving.

Then if she does something that requires you to leave then you leave.

Look at this way if a woman cheats on you and you weren't acting like an AFC wussbag then she was never suitable and she failed to live up to your standards. Why would you want someone who didn't life up to your standards around anyway?

Colossus said:

This isnt very realistic. That's not how women work, and really that's not how life works. YOU may operate from this philosophy, but those are your morals and men in general are more observant and cognizant of "honor" principles like this.

Click to expand...

Oh I know. Women aren't moral, honorable, and loyal the way men are, generally speaking. For women, when their inhibitions are down, such as with alcohol or if the guy is a good natural/player who can maximize the use of buying temperature, then women fold like you wouldn't believe. My belief is that some women are able to resist temptation in most cases. That's what guys should be screening for IMO. Think law of averages. If she's cheap and low quality, then she'll c0ck hop pretty easily. That's not a LTR woman. Instead filter those kinds of women out for the ones who are more stable and won't c0ck hop with ease. It's that last part I'm trying to make my point with. They shouldn't be easy. That's when what Rollo said comes into play, that even if she's not easy she'll still hop into the sack if the right guy happens along at just the right moment. There's really nothing you can do about that in all actuality except limit her exposure to areas of life where something sketchy like that can occur.

Colossus said:

When a woman starts to have feelings for another man, whether they be sexual or romantic, her instinct isnt going to be to tell YOU. Even if you expect her and told her to tell you. She will toy with it in her mind for a while, wrestle with the guilt and the excitement, maintain face with you and eventually justify whatever happened post-hoc as a heat of the moment thing. This is standard female behavior and outlining a boundary there wont change a damn thing, except planting the seed in her mind that if you find out you are gone, instantly.

Click to expand...

A lot times they will tell you, but not in so many words. For example, if she starts talking about a guy at work when you're at home or out together, that's a huge red flag. She shouldn't have another guy on the brain and be bringing him up when you're together. That's your queue to bring up what you talked about regarding boundaries and how it makes you uncomfortable her being around this guy, that she needs to get her butt in gear and make sure she does her part to deter it from going somewhere.

Colossus said:

This actually isnt a bad idea on paper, but I think a lot of your opinions here are a function of your involvement in the bar/club scene for the last 12 years. I dont see this type of behavior nearly as much as you do, although I do believe it happens.

I have been the guy who had a friend tell me they saw my gf grinding up on some dude's c0ck at the bar last night. It sucks. I've also been the guy grinding up on some other dude's gf, no doubt....although not since college.

I can honestly say though that with my current and previous girlfriend, I would have no problems with them going out without me. It rarely happens, but that's just been my experience with them and our relationships. I think it's a function of 1- their age (early 30's), 2- the type of person they are (good character), and 3- our social habits. I myself am not a big bar/club guy and neither are they so it eliminates that potential problem.

Click to expand...

I think that's a fair statement and the types of friends your SO holds has a lot to do with it as well. If they're stand-up people of good character, there's a good chance they won't be doing things socially that would put things at risk. Her work friends or whatever taking her drinking until 2am every Friday and doing a happy hour during the week would though. My point above is that booze + other men in close proximity = high risk of cheating. I saw a relevant comment on reddit a moment ago that tracks to this:

I think that the longer anyone is exposed to a dysfunctional social group, the more likely they may internalize the dysfunction and later, to project that dysfunction themselves. Sometimes, you need to just scrape the **** off of your shoes and move on.

Click to expand...

Colossus said:

Loyalty is becoming a dying virtue. It's successor is impetuous gratification. At any rate, I agree that the best course of action for an aware, mature DJ is---

1. Qualify, qualify, qualify. (interest level, character, past behavior, etc)
2. Boundaries as soon as the relationship goes exclusive
3. Keep your own side of the street clean
4. Be vigilant, but don't put too much of the responsibility on yourself. You shouldn't have to feel like you need to be Captain C0ckblock whenever she leaves the house.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Qualification is key, and IMO setting boundaries is part of that in the sense that it's a large hoop you're asking her to jump though. If she does it then she's qualifying herself to you and that's what guys should be striving for.

And I agree you can't put ALL of the responsibility on yourself. You do have to trust them at some point. My point above though is to not **blindly** trust women. Be vigilant like you said. I still love the old Reagan quote, "Trust, but verify." So true these days. This is why I like to buddy up with one of her friends who I know will be out with them on a girl's night out and let her know I expect her to keep an eye on things, that I love my SO and want her to be safe, and that if she's something going on that's sketchy she's to step in because I'm going to hold her responsible if something goes down. (that's really all that needs to be said, and it's worked well for me in past relationships). A new option I haven't explored yet is cellphone tracking, but a coworker pays for all his SO's and kid's phones for this very reason. Buys them for them as a gift, pays the bill, but installs the snooping software before he hands them over so he can read their texts, check their GPS location online, and even turn on the mic if he so wishes to listen in on what's being said. Granted, wrt his SO, he doesn't use it unless he's got a reason to. I don't know if this is a good thing for all guys, but it certainly follows my trust, but verify mantra.

Nutz said:

"If you love me, you'll cut off contact with him"

Click to expand...

Hmmmmm...I agree with your standard on the situation, but this hardly seems the fashion (verbal) to let her know you're not cool with it. Seems to me it'd come across needy and controlling. However I'm hard pressed to come up with a solution. Seems like you're already in trouble if she's talking about some guy from work...

Interested in your guy's thoughts about how to handle such a scenario.

If she wants to get with some guy from work, she's pretty dumb. There are stories of people who met their spouses at work, but it's usually a pretty bad idea. It depends on the job and the kind of work-place culture that exists. In most white-collar professional jobs, it's problematic at best.

Some girls are kind of like guys in their sexuality, in that they like variety. Other women I think tend to get bored/restless/commitment-phobic with pretty much all their partners after a while. It is your responsibility to vet any girl you're evaluating for a LTR. And sometimes you can do your due diligence and keep your game tight, but she may still flake.

I agree with the guy who said if you're not an AFC wimp, it's not really about you if you get dumped.

AlphaWhiskey said:

Hmmmmm...I agree with your standard on the situation, but this hardly seems the fashion (verbal) to let her know you're not cool with it. Seems to me it'd come across needy and controlling. However I'm hard pressed to come up with a solution. Seems like you're already in trouble if she's talking about some guy from work...

Interested in your guy's thoughts about how to handle such a scenario.

Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right, it's pretty weak and was off the cuff. I went ahead and modified that post. Thinking back it's all about preempting this stuff from the beginning. By that point if there's already something going on then it's quite possibly too late. In a lot of cases though there's early signs. When you spot them you've got to say something about it and make it clear she's got to do something so nothing happens, ideally removing herself from the situation all together IMO.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Women cheat as often as men do, and in marriage the infidelity rate is sitting around 20%. While this information isn't for married men per se, it's certainly applicable. Source:

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/guide/cheating-wives-women-infidelity

I have to admint i have some issues with this post.

. Ladies, if you're in a committed monogamous relationship then there are some things you just don't do--you don't touch, kiss, fvck, suck, or jerk off other guys when you're seeing someone, and better yet...don't even put yourself in a situation where that can occur in the first place! These rules should be a given when discussing each other's boundaries, such as what you both consider as cheating.

Click to expand...

lol, here's the thing. if i have to tell a woman, that sucking any **** but mine while we are together is relationship.. .that...... maybe... just might not be a good fit for you lol. just a thought. "okay jan, just so we are on the same page, **** sucking toher guys is off limits"

on a serious note though, this is not how a healthy relationship work. you can't keep a woman, or a man for that matter, happy in a LTR by establihing rules and keep her in check. you can't use the stick to enforce bounceries with a woman. the relationship will get tiresome, and be a burndern and she or you will sour.

you have to use the carrot with women. in other words, id on't tell a woman what she has to do ro what she does not have to do. she will do what she thinks she should do, beucaase she wants to stay with me and keep me happy. in other words, she isn't going to do anytyhing that would piss me off because i just might leave.

the bottom line, come on man, women know good and god damn well what they are doing when they do ****. you thinks he doesn't know sleeping at a guys house is "wrong". she knows. the bottom line is that if your woman is willing to push the evnelope with you that much, she doesn't value the relationship with you very much. now, that's a qudestino upon itself. it could be that you are not what he want. she could be just bat **** crazy.

women aren't dumb.

vIt's pretty simple and can be mitigated in most cases by the SO just being present and keeping an eye on things. "Mate guarding" if you will. Unfortunately, with women nowadays you just can't take the chance with "trust" because it's just not that simple. I've seen guys in the community do some fvcked up stuff over the years.

Click to expand...

no. no. no. no. no. no. no. just no.

no.

again.. you know what...


what IS a relationship. ask yourself that. how many times, have we preached on sosuave that a woman should be the cherry on top of the banana split that is your life?

stalking your woma nwhile you are in the club.. that is pretty much the whole god damn carton of ice cream right there.

furthermore, ask yourself the following questions

1. is not leaving my GF's sight an attractive trait?

2. is this the attitude of a man who can find someone else if i left?

3. is this sexy behavior in general?


the answer to all three is no.

the bottom line is, if you have to take it there, you just might have the wrong woman, or you do not know her or trust her well enough to be exclusive in the first place.

i could not be more oppoisite. i would take my GF to the club, amber in particular and hell there would be times i would go an hourw ithout seeing her. i liked to dance and she did not/could not. dudes would buy her drinks, she'd even come up to me and ask me what i wanted and bhave a dude buy that and bring it to me. and right when the club closed she'd be right there waiting on me with a smile on her face and we'd go home and fvck like rabbits. sometimes i'd even be lucky enough to get some pretty good road head. ah those were the days lol.

even now, we go out (my wife) And while she dances more than amber does, i mean.. i don't sufficate her. **** she's grown and 'm grown. if anything she's watching me as if a girl gets a lissttle too close to me she always manages to be right there lol. she has no problem with girls dancing ith me and oneslty i don't have a problem with dudes dancing with her. hell they can look all the way they aren't buying ****. she has enough confidence inherself to iknow she's hot **** and to know the girls there don't do it for me like she does and I know like wise. if you are going to have a relationship with a woman and have it be over years and still be attracted to each other and to live non sufficating lives, that's the only way it can be.


honestly man, you need to grow some nuts. no pun inteded. you have no confidence in yoruself and there is no way with that demanor that you will keep a broad happy for an extended period of time. going out with you is like taking a convict too work release lol. the whole time it's like you are the damn warden and they are looking to escape. if you are like that, why areou dating in the first place.

ajd fvck. i'm not even saying that alot of women aren't *****s. i know some true skanks lol. i spun one plate that i was supposed to meet at the club and i show up and her tounge is down some dudes throat.

but the thing is I DO NOT DATE A WOMAN UTNIL I KNOW WHA TI HAVE ON MY HAND

LOl, the came people that will tell me who i'm a dog for not commuting and they don't see the point in spinning plates are the same ones that have to go out with armed forces when they take their woman to the club because they are afraid of what she might do. my wife goes to teh bar/ club with girls night out a few times a month maybe once a month to getg out the house, ic ould seriously care less. she's going out tomororw night actually. be home at a reasonable time, don't' do anything that would piss me off,s he knows the deal. she will be walking through the door no later than midnight which for a friday night is acceptable, and likewise if i go out by myself.

lol i'm not saying we are perfect, we have had our issues.. stalking me outside of the gym lol. but, there was a bunch of **** under the table behind that situation. generally, we trust each other.

Hmmmmm...I agree with your standard on the situation, but this hardly seems the fashion (verbal) to let her know you're not cool with it. Seems to me it'd come across needy and controlling. However I'm hard pressed to come up with a solution. Seems like you're already in trouble if she's talking about some guy from work...

Interested in your guy's thoughts about how to handle such a scenario.

Click to expand...

inthe time i ahve been with my wife, there has been how many.... 3 guys or oribeters if you will. one when we first met, who was basically me 10 years ago. not bad looking, a good guy to take her out to dinner when she had nothing to do, but nothing more. i could look at her and tell she just wasn't into him (beucase i've been that guy).

when i was spinning plates i had no issues with him being around, but i told her that one of the conditions of me dating her, he had to go. and go he went.

it wasn't so much an ultimatum because i was perfectly content with my life as it was. if she wanted me to commit she had to do some things to show me she was serious.

another is an ex that she ran into one day and he was engaged and had a little boy with him and they exchanged numbers. he asked if they wanted to catch up. she thought about it for a few days and asked me would it be okay if she went out and grabbed a bite to eat with him, just interested to see how he had been doing. i had no real problem with it as i do the same thing with ex's that i ahve not seen in a while, just out of curiosity as to how they have been living. they went out, nothing came of it. they still send photos of our kids to each other and stuff and we got invited to their wedding which is later this year.

the last is her old hair stylist who is a male. he had the hots for her and he asked her out to lunch one day. she didn't think that he liked her like that that he was just being nice. i told her otherwise, but i told her if she felt comfortable go right ahed, i had no issue. she went, and he hit on her, and she found a new hair guy. actually hair woman this time. baby doesn't play. s he will not put herself in a position that will make me raise my eyebrows. so when she wants to go and kick back with the friends, go have fun, stay safe, dont' drink too much.

some of these issues that you guys are having are just grown people being grown people,. every time a woman goes o0ut to eat she is not plotting a gangbang session lol. you have to let a woman breathe man. hell a wmoan ahs to let me breathe. i would run away if my wife asked me about every damn thing i did every got damn day.'

interesting.. we have an assositae, actually she does more than i do... she is married. but before she married, she dated someone quite famous in the horse racing industry. this woman works in the industry herself. \
this woman, is honestly, quite the catch. very classy, very nice looking, sweet as heck, she's the woman you marry if you can. and this dude dide, and the woman is head over heels in love with her husband. the ex, is a millionare times over. probably even 8 figures. i mjean when is ay this guy was famous, i mean this guy was famous. but this woman is crazyy about her husband.

there was a situation where she had to go to work on the east coast for a few days and her husband was back here, and her ex was there. husband could freaking care less. she even had to deal with him. still could care less. he knew his woman wasn't about ot do jack ****. and of course she did not.

normal people wiht normal happy relationships dont' think the way you do. you seriousoly need to get right

Nutz said:

booze + other men in close proximity = high risk of cheating.

Click to expand...

Agreed, pretty reliable formula.

Nutz said:

A new option I haven't explored yet is cellphone tracking, but a coworker pays for all his SO's and kid's phones for this very reason. Buys them for them as a gift, pays the bill, but installs the snooping software before he hands them over so he can read their texts, check their GPS location online, and even turn on the mic if he so wishes to listen in on what's being said. Granted, wrt his SO, he doesn't use it unless he's got a reason to. I don't know if this is a good thing for all guys, but it certainly follows my trust, but verify mantra.

Click to expand...

That sh!t is CRA-ZY. Clever, yes, but pretty insecure wrt his wife if you ask me. I can see doing it with his kids...but even then that is a pretty blatant invasion of privacy.

I peeped in my gf's cell a few months ago. Not because I was suspicious, it was really just the temptation of curiosity. Bad idea. Not so much because of what I found, she just found out later and it blew up. Understandably...I'd be p!ssed too. Just imagine if we found out our gf or wife had tracking software installed on our phone...that would be grounds for break-up.

I think it just comes down to one very simple point that Nutz made: qualify.

If you didn't qualify the girl, then all the rules and boundaries in the world aren't going to control her.

And if you did qualify a decent girl, then you don't have to tell her that tossing some other guy's salad in the back seat of his Civic is a no-no. Decent people normally understand that you don't f**k other people while in a serious relationship.

So, qualify. I pretty much put a girl in a category by Date#1. One ex of mine was a drunk and a drama queen. So she gets thrown into the category of drinks and sex, but she'll never have my heart. One ex was a sweetheart, and she got treated respectfully.

I can understand some boundaries like, "Why is your ex still talking to you? Delete his number." But although I understand that, if I gotta TELL a girl to stop texting other dudes, then she's obviously not relationship material. I'm not emotionally committing to some female who's in constant need of male attention. I will f**k that girl. Hey, I might even buy her a few shots before we get to my apartment. But I won't be SERIOUS with her.

But telling someone that cheating is wrong is like telling someone that stealing is wrong. We all know right and wrong. But if you're going to cheat, you're going to cheat. Whether the rules are there or not. You can't place rules on emotions.

Colossus said:

That sh!t is CRA-ZY. Clever, yes, but pretty insecure wrt his wife if you ask me. I can see doing it with his kids...but even then that is a pretty blatant invasion of privacy.

Click to expand...

Very crazy. I could only imagine how emotionally damaged this guy would have to be to install tracking devices in his girlfriend's phone. That's downright insane. No relationship is worth me giving up my dignity in such a way.

Iceberg said:

So, qualify. I pretty much put a girl in a category by Date#1. One ex of mine was a drunk and a drama queen. So she gets thrown into the category of drinks and sex, but she'll never have my heart. One ex was a sweetheart, and she got treated respectfully.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Guys need to qualify, qualify, qualify! And separating them out what they're good for, a pump & dump vs relationship, is critical.

And you touched on something that's really gone out of favor these days: respectability. Most women are in fact not respectable. The problem is that a lot of them hide it well. Again, qualification is key because that's really the only way you're going to tease the truth out of her. Plenty of men have trusted their SO, bought the bullsh!t, and gotten burned in the process--all because they failed to truly discern the truth about that woman's character.

Good post although shorter paragraphs woulda helped.

Agree with Iceberg's point about qualification in the early stages, but this only works to a certain extent.

It will help ensure that you don't put any investment into the ones who you know will play around.

But it won't help with the "good girls" who end up cheating later.

Be with a couple of girls (including married ones) who are cheating on their man, either in a random hookup or in a planned strategy (i.e. over more than 1 night), and you learn that for ANY woman, cheating is a damn near certainty given the right circumstances.

Hence, Trust but Verify

backbreaker said:

normal people wiht normal happy relationships dont' think the way you do. you seriousoly need to get right

Click to expand...

Nothing against Backbreaker, but unfortunately noble thinking like this only works about 80% of the time (maybe less).

The rest of the time (20% or more, the statistics don't lie), she is banging another dude (or has done that at least once) and you didn't have a clue.

I don't and won't control anyone.

Only myself.

Simply put: I would tell a chick in a relationship or a possible soon to be one that I don't believe in cheating. Never have. Never will. It serves no purpose when we can just go our seperate ways. I wouldn't even say it in a stern or 'controlling' way. Simply matter of fact. That should be enough of a hint. If she doesn't get the memo? If I find out or things aren't working between us as they should be? I'm ghost. No explainantions. No 'talks'. No emails, texts, calls. Nada. Period.

Since I mentioned Buying Temperature in the OP and it's too big to add anything else:

http://www.bestpuatraining.com/buying-temperature

Naughty Ninja said:

I don't and won't control anyone.

Only myself.

Simply put: I would tell a chick in a relationship or a possible soon to be one that I don't believe in cheating. Never have. Never will. It serves no purpose when we can just go our seperate ways. I wouldn't even say it in a stern or 'controlling' way. Simply matter of fact. That should be enough of a hint. If she doesn't get the memo? If I find out or things aren't working between us as they should be? I'm ghost. No explainantions. No 'talks'. No emails, texts, calls. Nada. Period.

Click to expand...

I've had sex with at least 3 married women...that I know of. The first was in fact separated and did later divorce and she was up front about all of it. The second one lied through her teeth and it turned out the husband was just TDY. The third was a one night stand from winging an old friend's little brother when I was home on leave. In the morning when I noticed all the family pictures in the living room she claimed they were separated and the 3 kids were with him that weekend off doing something, but my instincts told me she was lying and to GTFO. These are the ones I know about, so there's no telling how many others there may have been, not to mention all the drunken club makeouts over the years.

The point of this thread is don't put yourself at risk of cheating by condoning behavior you find inappropriate, and giving guys a hint at what should be deemed inappropriate by what MY standards are (which may not work for everyone and that's fine). If your gf/wife wants to go out for a girl's night out, then you better damn well be sure you trust her friends and that they respect you and the relationship between you and your SO. Ideally her friends should like you and want to ****block on your behalf if your gf is getting too friendly with some other guy. This all starts by having standards and being clear what constitutes cheating and what you expect in a monogamous relationship. I firmly believe you can prevent a lot of problems down the road by doing this. It all comes down to qualification, of which this is probably the biggest hoop to get a woman to jump through.

This was an interesting article that puts women cheating at about 20%:

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/guide/cheating-wives-women-infidelity For unmarried couples I can only imagine what the rate of cheating is at. If I had to guess, maybe... half?

Relationships these days that don't do what I articulated above tend to be monogamous all right, right up until something better comes along. Well Homey don't play that.

I keep getting accused of being controlling, so I think a clarification is in order...

Re the drunken hookup part about walking an SO to the bathroom and keeping an eye on the door, context is everything. It's all about what's situationally relevant and when I posted that I had in mine a case of an SO getting hit on by some player/natural when she was drunk and her BT was spiking. Keeping an eye on things so he doesn't swoop in at the right moment and pull her to bathroom is prudent. When something like that happens YOU have to be the guy to swoop in and steal that BT spike instead. I'm pretty damn sure that's what happened here:

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2008/11/27/lois-feldman-fired-after-metrodome-sex-arrest-photos/

Google Lois Feldman.

Colossus said:

Agreed, pretty reliable formula.




That sh!t is CRA-ZY. Clever, yes, but pretty insecure wrt his wife if you ask me. I can see doing it with his kids...but even then that is a pretty blatant invasion of privacy.

I peeped in my gf's cell a few months ago. Not because I was suspicious, it was really just the temptation of curiosity. Bad idea. Not so much because of what I found, she just found out later and it blew up. Understandably...I'd be p!ssed too. Just imagine if we found out our gf or wife had tracking software installed on our phone...that would be grounds for break-up.

Click to expand...

I asked him again, and this is the software he used.

http://www.spectorsoft.com/products/eBlaster-Mobile-Android/index.asp

I'm looking for an equivalent for the iPhone since my ex gave my boy her old iPhone 3 and I want to keep tabs on where he's at, who he's communicating with, and what websites he's visiting.