"Calling her out" = EPIC FAIL

Average frustrated chumps are all too content to put up with endless sh*t-tests and outright disrespect from a girl they fancy. Then they discover, thanks to repeated failure, that in order to be successful with women, a man must actually have a spine. So off in the other direction they run, quick to pull the trigger and drop bombs on these flaky hoes when they step out of line.

I won't dismiss the value of expressing one's frustrations whilst simultaneously defending one's honor/boundaries - but a very subtle dynamic is at play here. One that is hard to see in the midst of a righteous rage.

If you feel the need to "tell off" a girl you just met, then you have already invested far too much energy into her bullsh*t to ever have had a chance to begin with.
(Yes that is a poorly constructed run-on sentence, but read it again till it sinks in.)

Most guys think that sticking up for yourself makes you a man, but I can tell you that picking your battles is infinitely more masculine, and effective.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about you have to ask yourself a few honest questions:

Question #1: What is the return on investment (ROI) for a call-out?

Frankly there is little to zero chance that your diatribe will have any effect whatsoever. Women are the grand wizards of backwards rationalizations. If they want to be right about something, then by God they will find a way to make those dots connect. Trust me no amount of convincing on your part will make a lick of difference. They will dismiss you as a clingy guy with emotional issues, and the scary part is that they'd be right!

Question #2: What am I REALLY saying?

You getting all huffy about the affair shows a weaker position in the game. Though your words may scream manhood, your actions are far too emotional to be considered as such. When you hang up that phone thinking that you showed her a thing or three, really all you accomplished was demonstrating how needy you are (and how much higher you perceive her value to be above your own).

Think about it. If an UGLY person flaked you'd just be like "MEH, their loss". But throw in some nice knockers and an ass that won't quit and suddenly we are dealing with someone important!

Seriously, you think you are setting her straight but really all you are saying is "I am so angry at you for ruining my only chance at banging someone out of my league" It's a chump move, built on a paradigm of scarcity and desperation, hence the disproportionate investment/expectation in someone you don't even know.

Question #3: What's a bro to do?

After banging your head on this all-too-common wall - if you seek relief then reach for the aspirin that's been helping men put women in their places for millennia. It's called..

NOT GIVING A SH*T

Yep, if you really want to rig the game in your favor, nothing works better than pure, unadulterated APATHY for a woman's BS. Next time you are tempted to tell her all the reasons why you won't date a flake, do yourself a favor - STOP GIVING A SH*T! Delete her number, unFriend her and save all that energy and breath for game to lay on prospects that actually have a chance at panning out. It's called "cutting your losses", and its a necessary part of being successful.

Interestingly enough, the very act of you cutting her off will give her much more pause for reflection than an emotional outburst, which only serves to invalidate everything you say anyways.

It's a bigger ROI too, for less energy expended. Any successful person will agree - greater efficiency shrinks the space and time between you and your goals. While the next man is spending days waiting by the phone, getting into arguments and chasing dead ends, you cooly dismiss the ones that don't make the cut or just didn't work out.

Question #4: Not caring? Really? That's all I need to know??

I find it telling how many people call our mating rituals a "game" - but few ever truly outline what the basic rules/objectives are. For this I can only quote my cousin Jim, who is currently seeing 4 different women, all of them smoking hot. His rules are blindingly simple and almost make you want to laugh at the exhaustive volumes of pickup literature out there:

MacDaddy Jim said:

Whoever cares more in a relationship is the loser

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Note: I'm not saying you should not care. Just don't care as much and that will put you ahead by a mile.

See, in order for a woman to truly feel attraction to you (once you have passed the physical scan), there must be some kind of magnetic vacuum to suck her in. This vacuum is typically characterized by her wondering how you feel about her - a certain intrigue, or as the French say "Je ne sais quoi". She knows you like and find her sexy, but is there something more? She has your attention but you are not "in the bag".

This is why wearing your emotions on your sleeve will almost surely get you disqualified. If you just met her and are already this emotional, then clearly you lack the understanding to give her what all women want - a mystery puzzle to unravel and talk to their girlfriends about. Take it from me - if she's not asking her girls for advice about you, waiting by the phone and wondering what you are doing right now, then you are not high on her list of things to do, and more flaking is GUARANTEED.

Question #5: How can I do this? I'm so angry at that stupid b*tch!!

The only way to achieve this mentality is to dismiss the notion that all your happiness and fulfillment comes from one particular p*ssy. You must embrace the paradigm of ABUNDANCE and realize that there are tons of hot women out there who are either single, or terribly frustrated by men who cater to their every whim or throw tantrums like sissies.

The good news is that there is no grueling effort here. All you need to do is gain some discipline and control over your irrational self. As a male this comes more naturally to you. All you need is another place to put your focus. Get up with friends- work on something meaningful for just have some fun - meet other prospects and keep playing!

Disclaimer

Of course like anything there is an exception to this general rule. If you are already seeing each other and she pulls something disrespectful you are entitled, no, obliged to correct her! But there is a way to do this which will make or break you in her eyes. The same basic principle of emotion applies:

Let's assume that she's always late to your dates and it's pissing you off.

Weak Pimp Hand
(agitated, whiny voice trying to sound tough)
"I have had it with you showing up late. It's really disrespectful and makes me feel like you really just don't care. Bla bla.. my feelings, you suck, etc..."

Yeah THAT'll work and totally won't blow up into an unnecessary bout of drama Funny thing is that guys who gush like this tend to fall on their own word and put up with yet MORE sh*t because the girl is pretty. Then they wonder why they get no respect DUHHHH!!

Strong Pimp Hand
(stated in a firm, matter-of-fact tone - with eye contact)
"I'm only going to say this to you once: If you are running late next time, don't bother showing up because I won't be here. Don't bother calling either because I won't have much to say to you"

Notice there is no wiggle room for debate here. You firmly set your terms and stick to them. Either she gets with the program or you do the worst imaginable thing to her - vanish. Again, this requires a certain level of inner game and conviction as a man. It is deeply rooted in the belief that you can meet a great woman anywhere and anytime, and in essence the current girl is expendable until she proves otherwise.

I tell you women are never more eager to please than when they are trying to prove themselves or lock a successful man down. It is this act of submission which gets them dripping with anticipation (and saving you a lot of work in the process)

Question #6: Should I NEVER speak to them again?

It depends on two things.

[1] The severity of their crime.
[2] The level of control you have over your own emotions.

If they did some seriously disrespectful sh*t like cheating/slander/betrayal, then it's only logical that they don't deserve the privilege of your company. Let them eat sh*t and die, such people do not deserve the time or power of your thoughts.

If it's something trivial or just outright annoying, and they don't listen to your first firm warning, then you should definitely distance yourself. But if you have a lot of [2], you don't have to burn the bridge, in fact you can reap untold benefits from LJBFing them.

In order for this to work though, YOU have to be the dumper! It's the only way to show that you mean business and stick by your word. No need to be an emotional assh*le about it either - Just treat em like they just lost an audition for a star spot, and can only hang out with you by kissing your ass, or introducing you to their hotter, smarter friends.

Question #7: Why are you posting something so obvious?

Common sense aint as common as you'd think. I'm seeing far too many of my bros falling into this trap. Please people - next time you find yourself rehearsing how you are gonna tell her off for not showing up or calling back, please STOP and get a f*cking grip on yourself, your nuts would be a good place to start.

Remember, letting emotions govern your actions is a woman's job, not yours!

Good post, also never doubt the power of the strong pimp hand method... once a girl did something seriously wrong and when I found out I almost went beserk. I flat out told her what was wrong, why it was wrong and how I wasn't going to accept it, without any curses or physical threats. But the look in my eyes and face was that of " do something again and i'm going to kill you". Ironically we ended up going out that day and for a long time if I told her to jump off a bridge she would have done it, she became crazy submissive like you said.

However , there are lots of threads here especially with guys saying how their gf's of several months are chatting with other people and grinding other people, etc.. Then I look at the responses and they are all "walk away, disengage yourself, don't call her out or you will look jealous". I'm wondering at that point what do you do? If you were in a LTR would the dynamics of calling a girl out be different than calling out a girl you just met?

The rules definitely change once you are in relationship mode, at that point you have to tip your hand while still holding your frame intact, which is often a delicate balancing act. You definitely don't want to look jealous, but then again you can't be 100% apathetic or she will just think you are not that into her.

The real trick here of course is laying down the groundwork. If she sees you are serious about dumping her ass for mere tardiness, she damn well knows that she better not be grinding on strangers at the club. How you set the tone of your relationship from the start will often determine its course.

For people who have failed to set themselves up in the proper, dominant role - this is an uphill battle, but not an impossible one.

I had a friend in college who was a champ when it came to everything except relationships. As soon as p00n was involved, it was total wussification. After a lot of brainwashing on my part (and seeing that he was a total failure dealing with women) he finally put his foot down on one memorable occasion. We saw his girl at this bar draped all over some random guy, when she was supposed to be out with her girlfriends. I didn't even have to say anything, he marched right up to her and said "I hope you're outing with 'the girls' was worth losing a good man", then promptly walked away. She gave chase, but he stood his ground and cut contact. For weeks she obsessed over him without knowing why, even coming to me seeking advice. I made it abundantly clear that she was on her own.

When they finally did talk he decided to give her another chance. Like a father laying down the ground rules for his child, he let her know what it would take to keep him in the picture. Of course she agreed to everything and for a time they seemed to be doing okay. But leopards rarely change their spots. Once things got comfortable again she started chilling with "her girls" more often. On one night I saw her make-out with an off duty bartender friend of mine. As soon as I told him he flipped the f*ck out, drove to her house and rang the bell. She answered and...

Him: "Just wanted to let you know that I'm going out with 'the boys', and by boys I actually mean girls that I can hook up with while I lie about where I am because you know - I'm just a wh*re like that."

Her: "I don't know what you are talking about"

Him: "That's right you don't and probably never will - it would require you to have some kind of honor or decency, but whatever. I gave you a chance and you blew it. Like I said last time I hope it was worth it, because you will be spending the rest of your natural life wondering how you let me get away."

Her: "But I love you!"

Him: "B*tch please"

With that he turned around and never looked back. Interestingly enough, he NEVER had this problem with any women he would date afterwards. He knew how to set the frame from the jump, and weed out the flakes and skeezers with no apologies.

So in short, yes you can salvage a relationship by being willing to walk away from it, but it won't have as much of a chance as one that was established under the correct terms.

And yes, it is good to let them see your anger when appropriate. But it cant be whiny anger, it has to be the cold, steady-handed type of rage that puts the fear of God in them, so they know you aren't just acting out.

GREAT POST. GREAT TIPS, Thanks so much RazorSharp!!! :yes: Exactly what I needed to hear.

I prefer to communicate this silently, I let them figure it out for themselves.

It's pretty cheesy to say outright "don't do that or you might lose me".

Julius, that's a good point and shows you give even LESS of a sh*t. Nice!

I <3 this thread.

Epic!.. Awesome

I was in dire need of this refreshing thread. Bookmarked, Subscribed and Revised. Excellent!

Very VERY good.

What about being responsive instead of being reactive in these situations? It can all come down to ones own self-conciousness and how they feel in their own skin. Whats wrong with being unapologetic in you're true EXPRESSIONS. Even if you call her and cuss her out, you can still be unreactive to it. Its about realizing that you "Cant NOT express yourself" Anything you say is just an expression of you and is under your control.

Why stifle your expressions?

Whats wrong with being unapologetic in you're true EXPRESSIONS

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The real issue here is not about "holding back" what you feel, it's about understanding the motivations and patterns which determine your behavior/attitude toward certain situations. Personal expression is vital to any exchange, but some feelings are really worth keeping to yourself - especially ones rooted in self-consciousness, neediness or just plain mommy issues.

This is a GIRL you are trying to court, not a psychologist who's gonna hold your hand through the process. As such you should really have some modicum of control over your emotions, so that you share the RIGHT info with her.

In my experience, the "right" info, can be no info at all. The level of your success with a girl is often directly proportional to how much she DOESN'T know (especially how you feel about her). Women have very creative minds when it comes to fantasies. They LOVE to fill in the blanks, so when a guy comes along who tells them EVERYTHING, well frankly he stops seeming like a guy to them - and likely will become "one of the girls". I've seen it happen again and again.

Something else worth noting is that 90% of human communication is non-verbal. This not only includes body language, but your actions/habits themselves. Women aren't just listening, they are WATCHING what you do to see:

> How consistent/congruent you are with your words/image
> How much of an investment you have in them
> How much fulfillment you have
> How many other women show interest
> How you deal with disappointment
> How you deal with her orbiters/suitors
> How you handle conflict

Now when you call her two days in a row, and then finally she answers only to hear a long tirade about your feelings, what is that telling her?

+ You already have a huge emotional investment in her
+ You probably don't have many prospects lined up
+ It's probably been a while since you had any prospects
+ You are easily stirred and have little control over your emotions
+ You base a great deal of your personal value on HER
+ You got anger issues
= LET ME FLAKE ON THIS LOSER

You don't think much of it. The call lasts 10 minutes but in that short span of time she got all the info she needed to make a decision (which you made very easy for her by being sensitive, emotional, demanding and just a tiny bit creepy.)

I've rarely seen a guy bounce back from a call-out early in the game. The only ones who can pull it off use a mix of reprimand and humor. It only works because (a) these guys are actually funny (b) they really do have options, hence the necessary detachment to pull.

Anyways this post really isn't a hard-fast rule about what you should or shouldn't do. Only you can make that call, but I really do urge any dude in this situation to examine his motives before acting. 9 times out of 10 it's just a bad idea and a waste of time.

this thread deserves a bump...first class stuff here.

great read and very insightful. Not sure why but lately reading alot of the posts where i see these guys heading toward their doom has gotten me riled up. This helped calm my nerves a little as it puts things in easy perspective.

God where was this post when I started dating my LTR!

I thought what I was doing was having "good communication". Turns out I was a jealous, emotional fool. I remember on several occasions, telling her "This is how I FEEL, I dont like this because I FEEL disrespected, that hurt my FEELINGS".

I guess its true though, like Pook said, its all about failing. Its only through failure that you learn. I am definitely more wise after this relationship.

What I can contribute is the statement about energy expended and ROI is true. Looking back, instead of getting into a full blown argument and trying to come to some sort of agreement (which is impossible with a woman), I should have acted like her little temper tantrum did not phase me, told her to go home until she cools down and wants to be mature. Had she done that, she would have realized her error, and her potential of losing me would overwhelm her until she apologized and took the fault for the argument. Then I would come out looking like a man for not giving in to her hormonal outburst.

My problem was that I was scared to walk away. Not so much because of her as a person, but because I wanted so badly to be in a relationship again, and being single again scared me a little. When you are scared to abort the relationship at any moment, you WILL put up with any disrespect aka sh*t test by said woman.

Anyways, great post, wish I would have read it a year ago when you first posted it!