How the internet has amped up AFCism

First my story, then after that I posted Rollo's comments on this from a great thread below, which bears repeating.

I worked at a university and at the Student Union they have a cyber-cafe which attracts all kinds of strange people from not only the school, but drifters from town. Most of them are trolling for young girls, even old, homeless drunks and some very broken down people.

Anyway, I decide to check my e-mail there on my way back to work, next to me is a 20-something kid, not a student, could barely speak two-syllable words; a 30-something guy with a younger dude who looked 17 or so. (That seemed odd ...)

The 30-something guy is on AFC's favorite site, My Space. He gets an e-mail from a gal and says, "Holy sh-t, she sent me her phone number!" I laugh and say, "That's probably not her," (referrring to the bikini photos) ... he kind of agrees. The guy calls her and she says, "You have the wrong number." The 20-something says, "Don't take that, e-mail her back!" Total waste of emotional energy. Then the 17-year old pipes in and says, "I text this hot girl about three times a day."

Seizing an opportunity, I say, "All this crap has made men pussies. It's kept men from approaching women in person, which guys can't seem to do anymore."

The 20-year old scoffed, the 30-year old didn't know what to say, and honestly, the 17-year old looked like he was going to cry because I hit a nerve. I could tell he'd never been on a date.

One of the rites of manhood in high school (and above) is learning how to ask women out. Everyone was nervous at one time, it's part of becoming a man. You eventually want to date in high school and as you get older, so you have to nut-up, become a man and ask out a woman face-to-face.

Today's cyber-freaks have lost this.

Rollo's takes ... much better than mine.

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Emails, IMs and TXTs - I should also add lengthy phone conversations to this list as well, but really any technology that seemingly increases comunication serves as a buffer (for both genders) the more it limits interpersonal communication. In the AFC case, the rationalization is that it keeps him in constant contact with his sex interest (which in and of itself is a mistake), but only serves as a buffer against her rejection. The latent peception being that it's easier to read a rejection (or hear one) than to potentially be rejected in person.

MySpace & Online Dating - This one should be fairly obvious for the same reasons as above - Online dating is perhaps the best buffer ever conceived. In fact it's so effective that businesses can be built upon the common insecurities and fear of rejection of both sexes.
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WestCoaster said:

First my story, then after that I posted Rollo's comments on this from a great thread below, which bears repeating.

I worked at a university and at the Student Union they have a cyber-cafe which attracts all kinds of strange people from not only the school, but drifters from town. Most of them are trolling for young girls, even old, homeless drunks and some very broken down people.

Anyway, I decide to check my e-mail there on my way back to work, next to me is a 20-something kid, not a student, could barely speak two-syllable words; a 30-something guy with a younger dude who looked 17 or so. (That seemed odd ...)

The 30-something guy is on AFC's favorite site, My Space. He gets an e-mail from a gal and says, "Holy sh-t, she sent me her phone number!" I laugh and say, "That's probably not her," (referrring to the bikini photos) ... he kind of agrees. The guy calls her and she says, "You have the wrong number." The 20-something says, "Don't take that, e-mail her back!" Total waste of emotional energy. Then the 17-year old pipes in and says, "I text this hot girl about three times a day."

Seizing an opportunity, I say, "All this crap has made men pussies. It's kept men from approaching women in person, which guys can't seem to do anymore."

The 20-year old scoffed, the 30-year old didn't know what to say, and honestly, the 17-year old looked like he was going to cry because I hit a nerve. I could tell he'd never been on a date.

One of the rites of manhood in high school (and above) is learning how to ask women out. Everyone was nervous at one time, it's part of becoming a man. You eventually want to date in high school and as you get older, so you have to nut-up, become a man and ask out a woman face-to-face.

Today's cyber-freaks have lost this.

Rollo's takes ... much better than mine.

********************
Emails, IMs and TXTs - I should also add lengthy phone conversations to this list as well, but really any technology that seemingly increases comunication serves as a buffer (for both genders) the more it limits interpersonal communication. In the AFC case, the rationalization is that it keeps him in constant contact with his sex interest (which in and of itself is a mistake), but only serves as a buffer against her rejection. The latent peception being that it's easier to read a rejection (or hear one) than to potentially be rejected in person.

MySpace & Online Dating - This one should be fairly obvious for the same reasons as above - Online dating is perhaps the best buffer ever conceived. In fact it's so effective that businesses can be built upon the common insecurities and fear of rejection of both sexes.
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Amen!

I really don't have much to add, except that trying to hook up with women on the web is a waste of time in 90% of cases.

In the 10% of cases where you do land a date, the girl is usually fat, severe mental case, etc. I know this from experience!

For every success story you hear on online dating, there are 1000 failures/bad experiences.

The odds just aren't in your favor.

Not to mention, like you said: asking women out face to face is a RIGHT OF PASSAGE. It takes balls, and yes you will be rejected sometimes... usually a lot more than you will have success.

I agree with you, however, I don't see the internet as the "big bad monster" a lot of people do.

I have the same attitude about bars and clubs. I just LOVE it when one of my friends squawks on about how "you will never find a good man/woman at a bar", and then in the next sentence they are asking what time we are gonna meet for drinks on Friday. If they took more than half a second to think about what they were saying as opposed to rattling off the crap they have been told all their life, they would realize that they are in essence saying "hey, I'm a loser!"

I haven't had a lot of success off the internet (haven't put much effort into it) but I know people who met online and are married to a decent person because of it.

discussion

STR8UP said:

I agree with you, however, I don't see the internet as the "big bad monster" a lot of people do.

I have the same attitude about bars and clubs. I just LOVE it when one of my friends squawks on about how "you will never find a good man/woman at a bar", and then in the next sentence they are asking what time we are gonna meet for drinks on Friday. If they took more than half a second to think about what they were saying as opposed to rattling off the crap they have been told all their life, they would realize that they are in essence saying "hey, I'm a loser!"

I haven't had a lot of success off the internet (haven't put much effort into it) but I know people who met online and are married to a decent person because of it.

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Bars and clubs are for losers, you can definitely find hot babes to fvck there, but none of them will be much use to you in the longer term.
It is true that you won't find a decent girl in a bar or club, you may well find a pretty girl to fvck, but being good and being pretty are two very different things.
Some people have success on the internet, in saying this many fat ugly b!tches use it to try and find a guy and most of the hot babes who use it have already been fvcked by many other guys already.
The best places to meet hot babes is when you are out and about doing things in your everyday life, hiding behind a computer, or an alcoholic drink are not the best ways to find a decent woman.

Alright let's stop woman bashing here. I've met plenty of guys online and offline that are losers themselves. What's the difference?

A lot of woman bashing on here lately eh? I agree with the OP, these "tools" of technology have become a crutch for a lot of guys. There's nothing wrong with using the internet to meet women, just make sure you do your fair share of real life approaches.

SoCalMike said:

Amen!

I really don't have much to add, except that trying to hook up with women on the web is a waste of time in 90% of cases.

In the 10% of cases where you do land a date, the girl is usually fat, severe mental case, etc. I know this from experience!

For every success story you hear on online dating, there are 1000 failures/bad experiences.

The odds just aren't in your favor.

Not to mention, like you said: asking women out face to face is a RIGHT OF PASSAGE. It takes balls, and yes you will be rejected sometimes... usually a lot more than you will have success.

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your experience is just bad luck.

I personally agree on the whole 90%/10% thing, but the ones that I have had dates with, ive ended up having sex with and dating them, and most of them were either cute or hot.

Law of attraction – if you bash women, you will end up not being successful with them, and if you love and embrace women, you will get plenty of them to fall for you

I find it entertaining how some people (such as the OP) think that those who use online sites don't also game in person. Its incorrect and naive as well, but mostly just entertaining.

The OP seemed to recognize that myspace has email elements. Since when did communicating by email (in any form) become AFC? I, and many guys here like me, have had complete, goal reaching success with very attractive women using these mediums.

I find it fascinating how quickly everyone reading this topic segued from it's original point - IMs, TXT, email, online dating, myspace, etc. being buffers against rejection - into how it's possible to find quality women online as if a personal defense were necessary. The point wasn't about finding "worthwhile women", but rather how accustomed we've become as a culture in avoiding direct, personal rejection, as I went into on my Buffers thread.

I find it interesting how readily guys (and a woman) associate these buffers against rejection with finding a woman, in favor of addressing the actual communication aspect involved in stimulating attraction, building rapport and interpersonal communication being sublimated for easy, comfort-zone buffers.

HaremMasterThomas said:

Bars and clubs are for losers, you can definitely find hot babes to fvck there, but none of them will be much use to you in the longer term.

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Attitudes like this only prove my point. This quote in and of itself is a buffer against rejection. "You wont find (again) an acceptable woman in a club so why even bother challenging yourself to be an effective communicator?" Why bother uncomfortably meeting someone in 'real time' when it's so much easier to read a person's bio (resumé?), flip through their photos and then make an approach using the insulation of an email or IM? Why challenge yourself to learn how to read a woman in person and risk actual rejection when it's so much easier to type away from the comfort of my little cocoon?

HaremMasterThomas said:

It is true that you won't find a decent girl in a bar or club, you may well find a pretty girl to fvck, but being good and being pretty are two very different things.

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I met my wife of 11 years at a bar/club and we've got a 9 y.o. daughter. We don't fight, and I have a marriage most men would consider ideal. Wanna know why? Because I know how to read her, how to interact with her, how to know when she's sh!ttesting me and how to know when she's being serious. We didn't IM or email, we'd talk on the phone occasionally when we dated, but only to set up the next date to meet in person, and we still to this day make a habit of sitting on the couch or on the porch to drink coffee (or something harder now and again) and talk about anything were doing or anything we're thinking - face to face.

Rollo Tomassi said:

The point wasn't about finding "worthwhile women", but rather how accustomed we've become as a culture in avoiding direct, personal rejection, as I went into on my Buffers thread.

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And my point was, you and the OP speak for yourself. I use both methods successfully. Maybe this is a issue for some people, but it isn't for me.

And don't kid yourself; A woman can definitely sting you with an email, and it isn't going to feel great when it happens. You can talk buffers all day, but it don't make it hurt any less.

u still gotta game them in person no matter how u meet them

thus the way u meet a woman does not matter. What matters is the end result!

I'm sorry AZANON, but unless your marriage situation's changed in the last few months, how are you using either method successfully?

According to my watch you haven't dated in 14 years.

Rollo Tomassi said:

I'm sorry AZANON, but unless your marriage situation's changed in the last few months, how are you using either method successfully?

According to my watch you haven't dated in 14 years.

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You're right, i haven't "dated" in 14 years. In any event, your jealousy is noted.

Pwned.

Rollo Tomassi said:

Pwned.

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Yes, you were. Everyone can see that. No need to make the obvious, evident.

So that everyone got RT's point, he is correct: I break no laws whatsoever, no matter how minor or severe they may be. These include, but are certainly not limited to: speeding, jaywalking, tax evasion of any kind, I always pay parking fines, cheating, stealing, adultry, littering, and every other law on the books in the state of Arkansas. He thinks he owned me by pointing out this true statement. He's right, I have never broken any law in the State of Arkansas nor will i ever.

So when i ever talk about anything that might suggest or imply that I am breaking any legal and/or moral law, it is always hypothetical because everyone knows I am a 100%, law abiding citizen.

OH.. and RT...... say pwned again.

Technology is great when used to make communication more efficient. However, the more that it's used as the primary mode of communication, it lessens the effectiveness of the message. Used wisely, it can make sarging efforts very productive.

Technology via dating sites allows me to quickly select potential interests and qualify them. It also allows me to schedule a several dates by using 10-20 minutes of my time. It's much more effective than a telephone call when you barely have a half hour of free time at work and you want to get together with someone that evening.

Now to Rollo's point, I'm in total agreement that many people use technology as a buffer, maybe not only as a rejection buffer but as a method to detract from their lack of analog communication skills. People hardly talk anymore, no wonder there's been so many threads about guys/women having problems just initiating conversations.

Originally a guy wouldn't ask a woman out in person, he'd try to get her telephone number so that he could call her to ask for a date. WTF?!! She's standing right there, ASK!!! But at least over the phone she wouldn't have to see his sorrowful face if she declines the invitation.

Then comes in email. In an attempt to become technically progressive, guys have begun asking for a woman's email address in order to communicate. Not a bad idea but come on, their emails become entire book chapters. Women enjoy this but it does not benefit the guy what so ever. Sure, emails give him time to pen seemingly fluid streams of consciousness but he doesn't have that luxury of time when in person.

Then comes in texting. Can the acronyms used actually be considered communication? Just how much substance can be conveyed in a stream of three or four character acronyms? None the less, a guy doesn't need to be nearly as eloquent when texting as he would if he was writing an email. Besides, its much easier not to make a spelling mistake when using acronyms.

So my take on this is that technology is what you make of it. It's no different than food or alcohol. When misused it can be detrimental to the person.

http://www.glasbergen.com/images/g214.gif

ANYWAY. Back to the point....

I wholeheartedly agree that men (and women) these days rely way too much on dating services, IMs, Myspace, what have you...they are the Magic Pill...The easiest road from A to B to getting laid without doing much work or sacrificing much face. But WHAT is this CRAP I'm reading about 'quality women' and 'decent' girls can't be found at bars...

W. T. F. You're kiddin' me, right? Just because a woman is at a bar she's automatically placed on the Freaknasty chart? Are women viewed differently by men because they enjoy alcoholic beverages, exercising their sexuality or just wanting to 'hookup' like men do? I'm damned to being judged either decent or not decent because I either sit at home like a good girl or am deemed a bad girl because I'm simply AT my favorite bar?

Let me ask this...How the hell do I expect to ever enjoy my 20s if I'm being a 'good girl' all time? I should just join the convent now! Confident women enjoy being women. Putting my sexuality into play is a fantastic time, and I don't plan on doing that from my laptop via Myspace or Match.com. I refuse. I like a face-to-face interaction, I can get more from that intial contact than I can over an email or IM or whatever. Body language is a beautiful thing, why sacrifice it? Because your cojones shriveled up and the man inside turned into a boy and said 'This is the easiest way, bro.' Sure, you can possibly have 'successful' dates from these services, but where's the challenge?! Isn't that part of the game of dating? If there's no challenge, there's no real excitement and it just seems boring. Laid out for you. Predetermined. Shopping in a catalogue for the next girl. I bet if any of you guys found a girl face-to-face who challenged you in return, you'd wet yourself in excitement. The challenge is what makes life interesting and worthwhile.

Technology in our lives is inevitable, cell phones, IM, text messages, blah blah...We use them all the time to make quick plans, etc. And that's fair. But why build relationships via them? Has face-to-face contact lost importance because of anxiety and social fears? I get myspace messages all the time from idiots sittin on their couches probably thinking 'hey, why not? What do I have to lose?' Why not use that mentality on the street? Because they can't hid safely behind their monitors or worry about coming up with a quick response after that initial 'Hello'? LAZY and LAME. I want NOTHING to do with that crap. Why not instead of spending all that time, energy (and money if you're doing Match.com type stuff) and put it into meeting people. Doesn't have to be hittin' up the bars every night, it could be: joining groups, a running/biking club, a gym, talking to women cold on the street, going to cultural events/museums..ENRICHING THE MIND. Knowledge is power!

A guy stopped me in the subway one day and asked me for my number. I was impressed by his boldness because who does that anymore? I think men forget that we're just as intimidated as you are in the dating world. But you're MEN! Act like it. Grow some and approach. It's really attractive to interact with someone who has the cojones to come up to me and talk. I guess at 6'0 and slender, I can be a bit intimidating. But that's how I met the guy I'm dating now, he asked me out. His confidence is attractive in a world where I barely see any from men.

I'm a damn decent girl, and I like to have fun, and I enjoy sex. So sue me. I like to go to bars for drinks and meet people. I don't sleep around like a desperate flooz. Everything is circumstantial. I could meet 20 guys in one night that don't blow my skirt up, or I could meet one guy out of a thousand trips to the bar that I'd wanna rock his world. And some girls are so desperate for any attention that they DO sleep with whoever buys them a couple fuzzy navels...people who are uncomfortable in their own skin behave more extremely.

So yea. Kick the match.com habit, and go for gold.