Jayer's Digression

Some of you may be familiar with the journey I set out on to become a Don Juan. I had been a long time lurker on this board digesting theory after theory when finally something lit a fire under me to go out and do real approaches. This was honestly the best thing I ever did in terms of realizing the truth about women and the so called “dating game” we all seem to be sucked into. I encourage anyone who is patient and has spare time on their hands to read it http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77857&highlight=jayer

After completing this journal I told myself that I would leave this board to continue my real world approaching and focus on other aspects of my life. I held true to this however I am now in varied state of confusion that compels me to write this post.

I suppose I will start with what transpired after completion of 100 approaches; I continued and do continue to approach when I am out socially. This eventually led me to meeting a woman I am currently in an LTR with. I had approached, number closed her rapidly, followed up, went out, hooked up, had sex, continued seeing her and ended up in an LTR. If anyone earned the LTR it was her… she doesn’t play games (or at least as much as an average girl), she cares for me, she does me favors without expecting anything in return which range from buying me random gifts to cooking or taking me out to dinner. I obviously reciprocate this because I appreciate her gestures and the fact that there actually exists a woman with good natured values.

So now for the issues; 1st and foremost this starts with me and I believe I possess the bulk of it. Half of the time I feel content with being 1 woman man and the other times I feel like I still want to screw some other women for sexual gratification alone. Although these are mostly things I tell myself because I see married people who are older and I feel I should get out of my system what I need to do with different women. However when I have sex with my girlfriend I am satisfied and I don’t think like this. These are forced thoughts that I tell myself to prevent oneitis. In regards to my girlfriend’s physical appearance… well when I met her she was cute (not hot hot as I’ve been with hot girls who had personalities worse than hell) but cute, sweet and affectionate. That’s all I ever wanted. I’d rather have a cute girl that loves me to no end, than a super hot girl that is selfish and that I constantly have to play games to keep the IL high. But since we’ve been in our LTR my girlfriend has gained considerable weight. This of course bothers me so I finally brought it up to her yesterday so lets see if this changes this.
I can go on and on of how many twisted and contradictory thoughts my mind has but I’ll try to sum it up like this; One of my goals in life is to get married and have a family, another goal is to live a player lifestyle and have beautiful women copiously. I am 30 years old and my current girlfriend is looking for engagement in the next year. If I were to settle down she is the type that could be a good wife and a good mother. If I don’t do it its back into the game again and we know how the tribulations that endures. Then again I have a cynical view on marriage since most end in divorced and I know so few happy couples. But then again I hear the dogma about starting a family as being progressive step in one’s life. There are equally a lot of older single people who are out there searching for someone and probably regret not getting married when they were younger and starting a family. I love my girlfriend but I am not in love as I’ve built a thick skin for ever letting an emotion like that control me. That’s what this game has done to me. Maybe the key is to just let go… or maybe its to keep your feelings in check and have sexual escapades on the side. If I am married I don’t think I’d want to be a habitual cheater so maybe I can fornicate with other women now and then cease (or try to) when I do tie the knot. Maybe my girlfriend will find out somehow and it would be over.

As you can see I’m past the point of meeting and hooking up with women or am I? What’s sad is that I’m 30 and I’m just as confused now as I was 10 years ago.

If she wanted to marry you badly enough, she would lose that weight first.

That is the reality. Exactly how you treat her and her sensitive female psyche is up to you. Getting a girl to lose weight is not so simple as telling her she's fat. That is how I got divorced.

We are all pretty cynical here, and I try not to be, but I would give your relationship about a 90% chance of being over already. When you make her feel fat and not sexy, she will start wanting sex less and food more. That does not make sense, but that is just how women are. Trying to get them to lose weight is very very thin ice.

Bible_Belt said:

If she wanted to marry you badly enough, she would lose that weight first.

That is the reality. Exactly how you treat her and her sensitive female psyche is up to you. Getting a girl to lose weight is not so simple as telling her she's fat. That is how I got divorced.

We are all pretty cynical here, and I try not to be, but I would give your relationship about a 90% chance of being over already. When you make her feel fat and not sexy, she will start wanting sex less and food more. That does not make sense, but that is just how women are. Trying to get them to lose weight is very very thin ice.

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Well I didn't candidly call her out on her weight because I know that is a very sensitive topic. I kind of did it in a way as to make it seem like it was her idea. The fact that she gained weight is partly my fault because we have gotten pretty comfortable and we eat a lot of fattening foods either at home or going out. I really should be more mindful of this. But I planted the seed so hopefully it works out. If the relationship were to be over I feel it would be more my decision as she very much invested.

So your problem is simple. You found a chick, she thinks shes bagged you and in turn doesnt care about her looks anymore and gets fat. This happens to most symps out there and the sad thing is most of these dudes put a ring on it and give themselves a life sentence. You dont want to be a part of that.

Ill be straight up theres no beating around the bush here bro. You are blaming yourself for HER weightgain? Strong justification there son. She has a mind, if she was health consious at all she would have said a long time ago "honey we are eating unhealthy and I gained ten pounds, no more!". The problem is you accepted this behavior and she thinks you still like her fat ass as much as you did when she was lighter, and cuter.

So what do you do hot shot?

Are you in shape yourself? Do you lift and live a healthy lifestyle? If you arent within a good BF% with some decent muscle and fit yourself then its going to be hard to convince your woman to be the same. Like attracts like.

You could get on the fitness kick and hit the gym together and make it a lifestyle. If she opposes this then you are in a lose lose situation.

Me personally I never go for a chick who has the inklings of possibly getting fat in the future. Just not my style. I attract girls who are active already and into working out and being healthy and fit because thats what my lifestyle is about.

If you make your lifestyle like that you will get women of that nature. If you are slob your gonna get slobs.

you say you want to be a player but your not congruent in your actions.

Regarding the weight gain, I don't think it's uncommon for people to start gaining a little weight when they're happy. So it sounds like she is pretty happy with you. But it's still laziness to let yourself go, so we'll see what she does now that you've mentioned it. The other thing is as the body gets older the metabolism slows down and it gets harder to keep the weight off. When I was younger I didn't really believe this, but life has a way of showing you you're not as smart as you think you are.

The girl sounds like a keeper, so congratulations. You say you still do approaches, does that mean you still try to number close or just approach women for conversations?

As for marriage, the way I looked at it, I'll try anything once. In the end, it didn't work out, but I don't regret marrying her. I have a hard time seeing any relationship that lasts 10 years in this day and age as a failure.

Julian yes I am fit. I agree that a girl should be health conscious but her being a workout freak isn't that important to me. I just would like her to stay within reasonable weight limits and not border obesity. Like I said I prefer a girl that is cute and takes care of me than a girl who is hot who is an attention ***** and doesn't go to the same limits to please me. But yes I agree with you that living a healthy lifestyle is important and really to each is own with the women we are looking for.

Zekko I have heard a lot of the same and feel your view on it is more realistic. Yes I still do approaches and unfortunately I do cheat to a degree. This has more to do with my mindset of getting it out of my system while I can and staying sharp than my unhappiness in my relationship. A lot of this site's preaching along with my experiences have given me a realistic view. I am able to control my emotions which obviously has its pros and cons. The pro is obviously that I am in control and can move on if the case. The con is that I may not immerse myself in a good emotion to the fullest. I am very confused and obviously need to set a good moral foundation. I can't rationalize that cheating is right objectively but I do feel that if you aren't married and still need to figure things out its acceptable.

Jayer, I appreciate your honesty. Good luck with finding a moral foundation.

Truth is, I don't care how good your relationship is, if an 8 or 9 walks by, you're going to notice and you're going to wonder about it. Women are designed to visually grab our attention and that doesn't go away just because you're in a relationship.

Life is full of compromises. If you're in a LTR you risk missing out on some interesting experiences with other women. If you cheat you risk damaging or losing your LTR. You just have to decide what's more important to you.

Thanks Zekko. Having a few years on me I'd be very interested to hear what your outlook on life and relationships with women are. Perhaps you've learned a great deal from your experiences?

Jayer said:

Perhaps you've learned a great deal from your experiences?

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Thanks Jayer. I needed a good laugh today.

The best way to "negotiate" these kinds of issues is to lead by example.
Pointing out to a woman that she is carrying a "few extra pounds" will not trigger her into signing up at WW , it will just make her hate you for making her feel bad.. Women are completely uninterested in the facts, they run on feelings.
IF I were you I would just start a personal program of exercise and take charge of what you are putting in your mouth. YOU NEED TO LEAD.
Hopefully, she will join the program. IF she continues to fatten up while you slim down, then she is telling you a great deal about her self regard.
IF you are thinking about marriage, it is essential that you choose a woman who accepts and embraces your healthy life choices and is willing to make them her own.
Never sign up with a woman who continues to make bad life choices while you are making good ones.

This thread is a good example of why some women feel the need to play games, and hard to get, and to be a challenge. Similar to things you learn from the DJ Bible.

If your girl was to not come home one night, I bet you'd lose your mind. Or if you guys went out and she accepted another man's attentions, and flirted back, you might have a change of heart about how you feel for her.

I am not condoning that behavior, but it is an interesting dynamic that happens on both sides of the fence.

Take her dancing. It's a bit of an exercise, and the fact that there are so many fit women looking for a guy like you will give her that competition anxiety to motivate her to lose weight fast.

Jitterbug said:

Take her dancing. It's a bit of an exercise, and the fact that there are so many fit women looking for a guy like you will give her that competition anxiety to motivate her to lose weight fast.

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Nah Jitter, women 'solve' problems primarily by avoidance. If she is placed in an unfamilaiar setting with other woman who look better and can dance a little she is most likely to want to leave early or refuse to go again.

So-called 'competition anxiety' is a weak and unreliable tactic because it will produce either one of two reactions from her- she will either COMPETE or RETREAT.
If she competes, she will lift her game. IF she retreats you have lost ground and achieved nothing but a pouty reaction from her.

jophil28 said:

Nah Jitter, women 'solve' problems primarily by avoidance. If she is placed in an unfamilaiar setting with other woman who look better and can dance a little she is most likely to want to leave early or refuse to go again.

So-called 'competition anxiety' is a weak and unreliable tactic because it will produce either one of two reactions from her- she will either COMPETE or RETREAT.
If she competes, she will lift her game. IF she retreats you have lost ground and achieved nothing but a pouty reaction from her.

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I see that as a win-win.

If she competes, you win.

If she retreats, you now know her true priorities, and that she really didn't care about losing you, so you can fire her with no more doubt in your mind, while at the same time, you've put yourself in a good position for a branch swing. You also win.

Women like to hover in "no decision" land to avoid doing anything until we take actions and light a fire under their wobbly arses to force them to make a choice.

While it's true that she may want to leave early or refuse to go there again, the fact that she knows there's competition will make her do something about it.

My mate was in a similar-ish situation with his GF (she didn't get fat but the sex was less frequent & less enthusiasm). He took up dancing with me and soon was fairly popular with other women. His GF went with him a few times, hated it, always wanted to leave early etc so eventually she didn't go anymore, but she knew how other women wanted him so all of a sudden she started putting a lot more effort into her relationship.

Having said that, what other tactic could a guy in his boat do?

Jitterbug said:

My mate was in a similar-ish situation with his GF (she didn't get fat but the sex was less frequent & less enthusiasm). He took up dancing with me and soon was fairly popular with other women. His GF went with him a few times, hated it, always wanted to leave early etc so eventually she didn't go anymore, but she knew how other women wanted him so all of a sudden she started putting a lot more effort into her relationship.

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Competition anxiety like that in your example above, in an LTR, will produce at best a temporary boost in her performance. When her fear of losing him subsides so will her horniness.
You were describing a relationship in decay in the quote . It had probably run its course. Playing "other women want me " games when a relationship is winding down like this will just increase the length of time that they take to reach the crash site.

I personally have no problem telling a girl she needs to loose waight.

But I dont say it in a nasty manner.

For example:

If she says: Could you live with me.

I'd say:

I like size tens, get to a size ten and i'll think about it.

Things of that nature.

If I see a girl on TV or in the street with a great figure, i'll say: Wow she has a great figure, I'd go there. When my girl turns around to say something back i'd say - Your hotter then her, if you got to her waight you'd blow that chick out of the water, why dont you try it -

Also i'd drop hints about her loosing waight almost everytime I see her - on the phone: "hows the diet going"

When she is sat at my place - I'd poke her stomach, or feel her arms.

A girl I am seeing currently is a size 12 but I want her to be a size ten and I do these things with her constantly.

But on the other hand I work out -

So when she objects I simply state "Look im working out, trying to make myself attractive, and simply I prefer a partner who likes to look after themselves too, Im not going to be one of those guys you see in the supermarkets looking buffed and attractive with a fat wife".

Also If she says she loves you - After a few days of that settling down - When you see the moment, you simply say 'I love girls who are a size ten, if you really love me, you'd make an effort to be the best you can for me and I like size tens'.

The reason I do these things is because I have zero fear of loosing a chick and I've found if anything if you go about it the right way, dont mock her but stand up for what 'you' like - normally girls actually dont mind it at all and in terms of the girl I am seeing it seems to lower her value and raises mine - The girl I am seeing is obsessed with me and I tell her to loose waight constantly - She has even gone so far has to not eat chocolate for a year.

When I am out with her and she see's something sweet, I simply tell her she is not allowed that - But saying that I dont mind her eating a pudding after a meal if I am too -

One time I saw a sweet bar in her handbag - I gave her some shi* for it - Not in a nasty manner but a shake my head and waving the sweet wrapper at her - like she had let me down - then I said to her 'Ok for tea tonight, your having carrots'.

I also say that to her alot too - 'What you having for tea' - When she replies I say 'Thats not carrots'.

My girl also tests me:

"Would you still love me if I was fat"

Me

"No"! or i'll expand on it "No, I dont want a fat wife or GF, I want a girl I can be proud of and I hate fat chicks, take it has a warning".

In contrast I am rather healthy, eat salads almost ever-day - work out decent build not large but not skinny - So I have alot of foundation to impose my values on her if she lets slip - If I was a slob i'd feel a little contradictory -

Jophile is right, you need to lead - then it falls into place.

What you said makes sense, but it's been 2.5 years since my mate started dancing and they're still together (~4 years in total) and he's still getting plenty. Although to be honest, I don't see their relationship going any much further. The next major milestone in their lives, either after he gets his PhD or she gets the next promotion in her career, will probably mark the end of it.

What can you do when your partner is getting a little too comfy in a relationship and not quite at her best? Not bad enough to be a dump-able offense, but enough for you to want to do something about it.

Jitterbug said:

What can you do when your partner is getting a little too comfy in a relationship and not quite at her best? Not bad enough to be a dump-able offense, but enough for you to want to do something about it.

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I think that it all depends on what each of us means by "a little too comfy".
There are folks who regard being "comfy" in an LTR as the ultimate measure of it's success. Others are ready to walk just because their woman is no longer tearing at his clothes with her teeth when he walks though the door - and there is obviously a wide range inbetween.

What can man do ? Probably the best advice is to be THAT guy again. Remember him ?

My .02 cents

I am not so much bent up on how low a woman's BF is, I can do a LITTLE chub... becuase everyone's body is different. somepeople eat like **** don't do **** and dont' have an ounce of bodyfat on them, my old best friend was like that. his diet consisted of little ceasers and pizza hut and can't possibly be over 8% body fat. easily a 12 pack stomach.

BUT. a woman has to be health concious. and truth be told it usually works out anyway.

If my GF gained 15 pounds (she's 120) or so, but kept doing what she does now, I could care less.

It's not so much about the look but the lifestyle. meaning, on a normal day I get on the bike first thing in the morning and 5 days a week I go to the gym in the afternoon for about an hour nd a half to 2 hours. the woman I date has to be accecpting of this.

the thign is, a out of shape person and an in shape person, can't coexist. a woman who is out of shape and hates the gym wll bager you, why are you always leaving, stay with m you waste too much time at the gym, blah blah blah (then when you listen to her, leave you for the gy that just left the gym, what kinda **** is that)

Here's a past story:

I had a girl I was friends with, as in buddies, for a while when I was 18-21.

She was fun to be around. Had a good personality, was a good person, dependable, reliable. She even had a very sexy demeanor to her.

There was one BIG problem. Physically, she just couldn't do it for me. I tried, I really tried for a while to even push myself into being physically attracted to her, but just couldn't do it.

The whole time, she wanted me. She would even try to make up reasons for us to move in togeather like trying to talk me into sharing rent with her when she got a new apartment...ya know, as 'friends'. I was hearing from other friends that she wanted me. It was obvious to me. I didn't need to be told.

So, I ended up pulling away and little by little not hanging out as much with her anymore. within a year she was dating guys more like her.

Turned out later she had some other issues that wouldn't have made us good togeather even if she was decent anyway. SO all-in-all it was a good thing.

You need to make a decision once and for all, are you going to keep going or end things and move on with life? If sexually you can't get excited for her thats going to cause big problems down the road later.

Best to acknowledge the obvious and get on with life. Painful as it may be.