I have been talking to girls, getting their numbers, calling them, but something didnt feel right. I felt it, but couldnt quite understand why so many of them flake...and what is going on with that....
Well, recently ive came across this gem. It is long, but it is worth every letter of it.
This made me open my eyes and understand what i have been doing wrong. IT ties in with many principles of the DJ, so do yourself a favor.
I hope all of you read this and give your feedback.
Hi all,
Someone emailed me the other day asking for my thoughts about an interaction he had with a chick he found attractive in the gym that he goes to.
I wrote a very long response, because his story got me thinking about the whole concept of desire versus obligation, and how the art of seduction is really about how to cultivate a woman's attraction and her desire for you, it is not about trying to appeal to her sense of fair play, or feelings of obligation, or her wish to be percieved as a nice person, and so on.
So, for those who have the time and inclination, here I am posting his email to me, along with a lengthy discussion about the themes it brought up. I figured some of you out there might have some interesting and helpful insights to add.
Note, by the way, that I am posting his email here with his express consent, and I'm also referring to him by the pseudonym of "Richard" to protect his privacy.
First I will post his email, followed by my response. Oh, and because this is such a long post covering so much, feel free to requote & respond to just a small piece of it!
************
Hi DB,
I just had a fairly unpleasant C&B experience tonight, and I'm still trying to make sense of it. I'm not asking for or expecting answers. I just need to talk to someone, and I would appreciate your patience.
I had been sarging a chick who works out and teaches at my gym. I've known her for about two years, though not well. Not only was she hot-looking, but she had a cool, down-to-earth personality.
A few months ago, around the time I started learning SS, I started moving in on her. My sarge was drawn-out and very imperfect. Still, I patterned well enough so that it got a favorable response from her.
A little over a week ago, I went up to her, said outright she was cute and I wanted to get to know her better. She seemed torn but clearly open to the possibility of going out. She said she was uncomfortable with people at the gym knowing that she was going out with someone there.
I understood her concern, but I just couldn't find the words to reassure or comfort her (damn!), so I ended up saying nothing and just got her phone #. In the days after, we crossed paths but felt uneasy going forward.
I do admit I didn't convey comfort or reassurance in my demeanor, as I myself felt uncomfortable in the gym. This might have undid me in the end.
Goddamnit, DB, I was so goddamn close - THIS close - and I blew it! http://www.sosuave.com/ubb/frown.gif
I called her but couldn't reach her. Finally, at the gym I went up to her and asked to talk to her outside.
She kept stalling and said she had to go. I persisted and said, "well, let's make time then." She got mad that I persisted and finally left. Only later did I learn that this incident was the dealbreaker.
She called that night, and left a terse, unfriendly message saying we shouldn't go out. I called her 2 days later and she repeated her message.
I feel I have a good reason to be angry at her, even despite my imperfect sarge. I was respectful and direct, and I gave her no justification for her unfriendly behavior. She never acted like this before. I actually don't mind her rejection, but it's the *way* she rejected.
On ASF or SS we're so super-conscious of power dynamics between the sexes that it seems almost quaint to think a woman can and *should* show grace and kindness, even when they ditch a guy.
But maybe such acute awareness is justified. I thought about going up to her and saying, "you know, I don't mind rejection. But your unfriendly behavior was gratuitous."
But if I express such indignation, I lose because all she sees is a guy who didn't get what he wanted, and now he's just whining. The appeal solely to integrity is the tactic of the weak and defeated, and even if she did agree with me, she would feel only indifference or contempt.
I don't know, DB. I know the PU game is best viewed coolly, and that we employ some degree of predictability when analyzing chick behavior. And I do admit f**king up, and I can argue even that I got what was coming.
On the other hand, I wonder: is a chick's character worth recognizing so that when she behaves rudely - even during a sarge - criticism is warranted and not irrelevant?
I know, I know - guys on ASF will say, "tough, that's the way it is," and I mostly agree. But I wonder if that kind of thinking about chicks is sometimes a little too linear.
From one angle, I can be justly criticized for causing her unfriendliness. Yet, the fault was purely tactical, not because of my lack of integrity. The mistake was akin to using the wrong fork at the dinner table.
The funny thing is that by being unpleasant, she undid anything unique I had previously saw in her. She became just another b**ch, vindicating all the predictability I had just questioned above.
DB, I hope you understand. I'm a little bent out of shape right now, but I'll be fine. Well, anyway, this was a learning experience, and even the bad experiences are good ones.
Richard
******************
DeepBlue reply:
Hi Richard,
Before I get started, there is one thing you will need to keep in mind. Namely that the things you did, you did because they flow from how you see things, your logic about the world, and even though some of the things you did, did NOT get the results you wanted, a part of you is inevitably going to continue viewing what you said and did as being “right” and the things I’m going to suggest will to some extent seem “wrong” to you.
If you are going to benefit from my suggestions, you have to trust in the possibility that maybe the things I say are right for you, even if on a gut level they might at first seem like they can't possibly be right. Consider them, give them a chance, and you may find that they ultimately become a comfortable fit for you, while bringing you the outcomes you seek.
Well, recently ive came across this gem. It is long, but it is worth every letter of it.
This made me open my eyes and understand what i have been doing wrong. IT ties in with many principles of the DJ, so do yourself a favor.
I hope all of you read this and give your feedback.
Hi all,
Someone emailed me the other day asking for my thoughts about an interaction he had with a chick he found attractive in the gym that he goes to.
I wrote a very long response, because his story got me thinking about the whole concept of desire versus obligation, and how the art of seduction is really about how to cultivate a woman's attraction and her desire for you, it is not about trying to appeal to her sense of fair play, or feelings of obligation, or her wish to be percieved as a nice person, and so on.
So, for those who have the time and inclination, here I am posting his email to me, along with a lengthy discussion about the themes it brought up. I figured some of you out there might have some interesting and helpful insights to add.
Note, by the way, that I am posting his email here with his express consent, and I'm also referring to him by the pseudonym of "Richard" to protect his privacy.
First I will post his email, followed by my response. Oh, and because this is such a long post covering so much, feel free to requote & respond to just a small piece of it!
************
Hi DB,
I just had a fairly unpleasant C&B experience tonight, and I'm still trying to make sense of it. I'm not asking for or expecting answers. I just need to talk to someone, and I would appreciate your patience.
I had been sarging a chick who works out and teaches at my gym. I've known her for about two years, though not well. Not only was she hot-looking, but she had a cool, down-to-earth personality.
A few months ago, around the time I started learning SS, I started moving in on her. My sarge was drawn-out and very imperfect. Still, I patterned well enough so that it got a favorable response from her.
A little over a week ago, I went up to her, said outright she was cute and I wanted to get to know her better. She seemed torn but clearly open to the possibility of going out. She said she was uncomfortable with people at the gym knowing that she was going out with someone there.
I understood her concern, but I just couldn't find the words to reassure or comfort her (damn!), so I ended up saying nothing and just got her phone #. In the days after, we crossed paths but felt uneasy going forward.
I do admit I didn't convey comfort or reassurance in my demeanor, as I myself felt uncomfortable in the gym. This might have undid me in the end.
Goddamnit, DB, I was so goddamn close - THIS close - and I blew it! http://www.sosuave.com/ubb/frown.gif
I called her but couldn't reach her. Finally, at the gym I went up to her and asked to talk to her outside.
She kept stalling and said she had to go. I persisted and said, "well, let's make time then." She got mad that I persisted and finally left. Only later did I learn that this incident was the dealbreaker.
She called that night, and left a terse, unfriendly message saying we shouldn't go out. I called her 2 days later and she repeated her message.
I feel I have a good reason to be angry at her, even despite my imperfect sarge. I was respectful and direct, and I gave her no justification for her unfriendly behavior. She never acted like this before. I actually don't mind her rejection, but it's the *way* she rejected.
On ASF or SS we're so super-conscious of power dynamics between the sexes that it seems almost quaint to think a woman can and *should* show grace and kindness, even when they ditch a guy.
But maybe such acute awareness is justified. I thought about going up to her and saying, "you know, I don't mind rejection. But your unfriendly behavior was gratuitous."
But if I express such indignation, I lose because all she sees is a guy who didn't get what he wanted, and now he's just whining. The appeal solely to integrity is the tactic of the weak and defeated, and even if she did agree with me, she would feel only indifference or contempt.
I don't know, DB. I know the PU game is best viewed coolly, and that we employ some degree of predictability when analyzing chick behavior. And I do admit f**king up, and I can argue even that I got what was coming.
On the other hand, I wonder: is a chick's character worth recognizing so that when she behaves rudely - even during a sarge - criticism is warranted and not irrelevant?
I know, I know - guys on ASF will say, "tough, that's the way it is," and I mostly agree. But I wonder if that kind of thinking about chicks is sometimes a little too linear.
From one angle, I can be justly criticized for causing her unfriendliness. Yet, the fault was purely tactical, not because of my lack of integrity. The mistake was akin to using the wrong fork at the dinner table.
The funny thing is that by being unpleasant, she undid anything unique I had previously saw in her. She became just another b**ch, vindicating all the predictability I had just questioned above.
DB, I hope you understand. I'm a little bent out of shape right now, but I'll be fine. Well, anyway, this was a learning experience, and even the bad experiences are good ones.
Richard
******************
DeepBlue reply:
Hi Richard,
Before I get started, there is one thing you will need to keep in mind. Namely that the things you did, you did because they flow from how you see things, your logic about the world, and even though some of the things you did, did NOT get the results you wanted, a part of you is inevitably going to continue viewing what you said and did as being “right” and the things I’m going to suggest will to some extent seem “wrong” to you.
If you are going to benefit from my suggestions, you have to trust in the possibility that maybe the things I say are right for you, even if on a gut level they might at first seem like they can't possibly be right. Consider them, give them a chance, and you may find that they ultimately become a comfortable fit for you, while bringing you the outcomes you seek.