Buffers

In POOK's inimitable words, Rejection is better than Regret.

I was recently sifting through some of my past posts using the search feature of this forum when it hit me; over 90% of what I advocate here can be reduced to overcoming a fear of rejection. 90% of the dillemas AFCs and rAFCs find themselves in, and a majority of men's concerns, with the opposite sex find their roots in the methods and means they use to reduce their exposure to female rejection. These are buffers meant to reduce the potential for this rejection of intimacy. Men of course aren't the only ones who use buffers - women have their share as well - but I think it would be much more productive for guys to recognize this propensity in themselves and see the methods they use, and often ego-invest in their personal psychologies, to buffer themselves against rejection.

Virtually every common problem guys come to this site for help with finds it's basis in these buffers.

LDRs - The AFC will entertain an LDR because it was based on a previous acceptance of intimacy and being no longer convenient (due to distance) the guy will cling to the "relationship" because it's a buffer against potential rejection from new women instead of accepting the relationship as being finished and maturely re-entering the dating pool. It a perceived "sure thing", even if only rarely rewarding.

Playing Friends - Usually after an LJBF rejection where the perception is the potential love interest "might" later become an intimate with time and qualification. No matter how misguided, the time and effort spent by an AFC in proving himself as the "perfect boyfriend" is a buffer against further rejection by new potential females, which is then further compounded by a moralistic sense of duty to be a Friend to his LJBF girl. In essence, his buffer against further rejection is his misplaced dedication to the LJBF girl. Another variation of this is the Cap'n-Save-A-Ho dynamic.

Emails, IMs and TXTs - I should also add lengthy phone conversations to this list as well, but really any technology that seemingly increases comunication serves as a buffer (for both genders) the more it limits interpersonal communication. In the AFC case, the rationalization is that it keeps him in constant contact with his sex interest (which in and of itself is a mistake), but only serves as a buffer against her rejection. The latent peception being that it's easier to read a rejection (or hear one) than to potentially be rejected in person.

MySpace & Online Dating - This one should be fairly obvious for the same reasons as above - Online dating is perhaps the best buffer ever conceived. In fact it's so effective that businesses can be built upon the common insecurities and fear of rejection of both sexes.

Objectification of Gender - This might be less obvious, but both sexes tend to objectify the other. Naturally when think of this, the popularized notion is that men objectify women as sex objects, but women have a tendency to objectify men as "success objects" for the same reason. It is easier to accept rejection from an object than it is to take it from a living, breathing, human being. This is why we refer to intergender communication as a "game." We "score" or we get "shot down"; the buffer is in the language and mental approach.

Idealization of Gender - This is the myth of the "Quality Woman." The buffer operates in perceived self-limitations based on a search for an ideal mate. Thus a tendency to fixate on one woman (ONEitis) or one type of woman (a gender Archetype) develops. By limiting to, and/or fixating on one woman (or type) the potential for rejection decreases, while insuring that any real rejection will come only from non-qualified women. Rejection = Low Quality Woman and is thus disqualified. This works in a similar fashon to the objectification buffer in that the woman delivering the rejection is reduced to an object.

Scarcity Mentality - The "Take What I Can Get" acts as a buffer in that it works opposite of the Idealization buffer. Deprivation is motivation and by sticking with the "sure thing" (regardless of personal consequence) the potential for new rejection is eliminated.

Older Women, Younger Women - I should also include certain body types in this category as well, but the buffer is in certain types of women being less likely to reject a man due to their personal circumstances. The Older Woman thread has been done into irrelevancy on this forum, but the buffer is that older women, acting in accordance with their conditions, will be more inclined to accept the advances of younger men. In the same vein, very young girls will be more apt to accept the advances of older men due to naiveté and fat women are easier to become intimate with due to sexual deprivation. This isn't rocket science, but an internalized preference for particular women develop with an association with the minimization for potential rejection.

Excellent SS topic. I couldn't agree more - [fear of] rejection is almost always at the root of the AFC's problem set(s). I was out with a bunch of friends yesterday and this very topic came up. A few nights before I had went to a event with my wife. Many of the women there were what I call chronically single. They have never been married. They have never been in a LTR. No kids. Basically living in the ideal (media programmed fantasy world for women). It's fun messing with them. And some are even relatively attractive (HB7.5). Anyhow, at the end of the evening I asked the wife if she thinks there are more chronically single women or men. She immediately replied "women". And then I asked her isn't it possible that there are more men and that they are so AFC that they don't even socialize (like these women did) so that the males are basically innumerable. And she didn't even answer that question, she just asked another - "Why the he11 are guys so scared of approaching". I said "Rejection". And I got the deer in the headlights look back.

Back to yesterday. One of the guys had been a licensed therapist in a past life. So I asked what is the root cause of this [fear of] rejection. And I got a partial answer and I also got the sense that there is a lot of childhood stuff going on here. I think it is a fascinating topic. There are so many men who are AFC and fear rejection and use these buffers. If it were a illness it would be deemed and epidemic.

Cure a man of his [fear of] rejection and he's found the path he's always "felt" existed. Call that awareness, unplugging, realization or whatever. And the irony - the one single best cure - is to be rejected.

And I find myself thinking of another possible buffer category (which like some of the others can have some overlap).

Leagues - This is the opposite of a "high standards" buffer which I believe you group with scarcity. There are countless guys out there who actually know there are more than one woman for them (thus it's not technically scarcity). For example, they believe that many hot supermodels and actresses would be perfect for them. Now go opposite that. There is the woman they actually fear because she is perceived to be so much more powerful than the AFC. Think of the HB9+ corporate director who runs marathons, travels alot, has good friends, dresses well, etc, etc, etc. Meanwhile the AFC sees her everyday at work or a foodcourt or whatever and tells himself "wow is she out of my league I would just get shot down because I would need to be a executive or professional athelete or rich for her to even be interested". Here [fear of] rejection is very strong. Basically giving up without ever having had an interaction. And life's joke - this very HB is going to be quite warm to any guy with a pair who's confident and does not fear rejection. The only barrier is his mind (give or take the extremen appearance, health issues).

...and to some degree men will discover or know of some of a woman's previous partners and use this to avoid approaching (ie now she's a slvt or hor) when in reality even quality women will have had previous partners and she may have been an overall good match worthy of the risk of her rejecting him (basically a big rationalization/jusitification most likely falling into the Idealization category).

fear is at the root of all that is wrong with the world and the individual today.

in the past fear played a more functional role. man mated with woman and fear bonded them because the world was a tough place and you needed that support. there weren't tvs, video games, amusement parks, etc.

so human interaction was the primary source of reward after a hard days work.

moreover, family was very important. once again, life was tough and you could get ill at any time and would require others to care for you.

because of this necessity ruled over fear - especially the fear of rejection. men shamelessly courted any woman that took their fancy. women openly accepted that courtship provided she had even the least bit of interest in the man.

people did not think 'can i do better?' 'oh how horrible it will be if she rejects me' etc. - because life was just too damn tough regardless! so what if you got rejected, you had bigger issues on your plate to worry about!

more over, because life was so tough people understood the value of relationships and the bond of family - you HAD to trust and rely on others, because it was a damn hard life if you didn't. hence the construct of wives and children respecting the man of the house, the man loving his wife and children, etc. - it was a symbiotic paradigm.

were their dysfunctional marriages in the past? of course. but i'd argue there were many more trusting, honest, caring ones than there are today.

in the past there were no distractions to reward the mind. you worked your *ss off during the day, and then came home and your wife and children were your reprieve from the world. there were no televisions, internet porn, xboxs, amusement parks, etc.

today however we mate not out of necessity, but rather out of weak biological / emotional urge. we fear rejection because we have the time to think about what that rejection means. we fear approaching because we have too much time to think about the potential of rejection, and also because we fear (anxiety is probably a better descriptor) the whole process of bonding with another human being.

things have become complicated and confusing (and perhaps even scary) simply because we are all consciously aware that the NEED for relationships has no foundation in necessity anymore. we may WANT relationships, but we dont NEED them.

so we are in a constant push and pull as to whether we shoudl or should not burden ourselves with them and all the elements that come with them.

which is why we also tend to become perfectionists. everyone is waiting for the perfect match to show up.

in the old days if there was a girl that you found somewhat attractive, you banged her and got married, the end. today everyone is analyzing to death whether they are 'settling' or not.

and i somewhat embarassingly include myself in this category.

while on the one hand its great that we are all engaging in the process of enlightenment, one of the negatives associated with that is that we have become overly picky about everythign in life.

more over our standards and hopes for what life will become are outright crazy. we've watched too many tv shows and movies and think that we will one day 'have it all' just like they do in that movie.

our comfort, mass media and process of enlightenment have all clashed in this chaotic mess leaving most of us wondering - 'whats the point of life, of women, of working, of me, etc.?'

and in so we have sunk further in to fear. we have moved from fear as a consideration of the physical world - ie. fear of poverty, loneliness, disease, etc. - to psychological fear - ie. am i doing the right thing, will my life be in vain, will i be a failure, etc.

and we are surrounded by millions of people all thinking the same way, all reinforcing each other.

as our fear of disease and poverty have gone away for many of us, we have redirected it towards other things. in as much, i think as humans we suffer more mentality today than we did in our past history. in the past people suffered physically, but mentally they belonged to a tribe / family / institutions, etc. and were surrounded by others who understood the importance of human relationships.

our comfort has made us all narcissistic and neurotic. there are very few things that we do anymore where we are not asking ourselves 'did i do the right thing? did i do it well enough? did i get what i want?"

hell, in the past people just did things and moved on and did more things. they simply tried tried and tried again. as long as there was food on the table and a roof over your head, who cared what else was going on really.

heck, i bet you that most women 100 years ago were tougher than most of today's men!! and i include myself in that also!

they had no time for pity in the past. you sucked it up and made a go of it, whatever IT was.

men today have turned in to women (and many women have turned into children). partly as a result of the million laws we have in place and our social structure (men are afraid to be men).

anyway, we live in a world that encourages you to fear the consequences of your actions - to fear failure. you have been lead to believe that what you do matters. guess what, IT DOESN'T!!!

it really doesn't. the only one it matters to you is you. the rest of the world could care less. you will live 80 years and then die and no on ewill give a sh*t whether some HB10 rejected you or not. heck, you could run down the street naked, get tossed in the jail for a night, and in 80 years no one would even remember you did it.

but somehow we've been tricked in to thinking that what we do matters. as though the life we live will be remembered for generations to come. IT WON'T!

so stop fearing, stop being picky, stop judging yourself, stop caring what others thing - just get out there and drink the world up! and no matter how many times you face rejection, just keep on trucking, because ultimately that rejection doesn't matter. and even if it matters today, don't worry, in time it won't!

our greatest strength is our ability to think, but it is also our greatest enemy. when you let fear take the reigns and control your thought processes, yoru strength becomes your weakness.

anyway, that was a long ramble. hopefully there's something of value in all that

joekerr31 said:

anyway, that was a long ramble. hopefully there's something of value in all that

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There's a lot of value in your post Joekerr, along with your other posts I've seen. Thanks for taking the time to write this.

Rollo Tomassi said:

Older Women, Younger Women - I should also include certain body types in this category as well, but the buffer is in certain types of women being less likely to reject a man due to their personal circumstances. The Older Woman thread has been done into irrelevancy on this forum, but the buffer is that older women, acting in accordance with their conditions, will be more inclined to accept the advances of younger men. In the same vein, very young girls will be more apt to accept the advances of older men due to naiveté and fat women are easier to become intimate with due to sexual deprivation. This isn't rocket science, but an internalized preference for particular women develop with an association with the minimization for potential rejection.

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This is where I honestly have to disagree with you. Like I and someone else here have testified to, a hot older woman is equally as hard to pull(if not more difficult) as a hot 25 year old woman. They are no different from what I'VE seen. The easiest hot tail to pull, and most open and friendly women in my opinion, are the 19 and 20 year old women. I'm not so sure about the 21 and 22 year olds, but I'd assume they're just as easy as the 19 and 20 year olds.

EDGER, you're kidding right? Every 3 days there's another thread in the Mature Man's forum about the young guy saying how easy it is to hook up with older women and should he do it. But just for sake of debate let me ask you this, what age demographic is towted in popular culture as having a reputation for being more sexually available and easier to hook up with from young men, the 25 y.o. or the 40 y.o. woman?

joekerr31 Great Post! Thanks

TheDnt

One thing is for sure...when I was in my early to mid 20s (21-25), any woman over 30 was "old" in my book. And a woman over 35 was a dinosaur.

Now at 39, I can say that I've tasted women from 20s, mid 30s, and early 40s. I'm very attracted to the 26-32 range. And that's the range that I tend to attract the most.

Why? Because that's the range I used to target in my 20s (even when I was married) to the point that NOW I know how to operate on them. If I would have pursued old women when I was in my 20s, the I would have failed myserably now. That is, because I would have sacrificed my ability to LEAD.

The only time younger men might have problems pulling old women out is IF more mature DJs were targeting those women. There is no way I could out DJ a man in his 40s or 50s for the attention of a woman in her 40s. Heck, it is very difficult to out DJ a man in his 40s for a woman in her mid 30s. Although, I can out DJ them (men in 40s+ and 20s) for women in their upper 20s and 30s. It is what it is.

Men have to be picky when picking a wife. If you make 125k per year and have the ability to bring 500k worth of wealth (eg properties) in a matter of 5 years...while she makes 30k per year and has the ability to bring 65k worth of wealth in 5 years. So married, they can bring 500k + 65k = 565k.

Now...who wins in a divorce after 5 years of marriage? If you divide the 565k wealth accumulated in 5 years (each ends with 282)...she profits 217k and he loses 217k. Add alimony and her profits could increase even more.


If I was a "hot babe" in todays society...I would be investing in marriage. I mean...where can you almost quadruple your potential to profit?

And if I want much more (401k retirement plan and lot of alimony)...I might as well do 10 years!

latinoman nails it on the head. be careful who you marry. be very very very careful. its the biggest decision you can make in life.

and just remember, 90% of folks out there f*ck it up! so its not like its easy to get it right - make damn sure you know what you are doing.

Excellent topic Rollo, and joekerr31 to dig into the roots of our fears.

Regarding approaching women I would take it a step farther and say this fear is so strong it is almost phobic.

What’s a common treatment for phobias: systematic desensitization?

The first few weeks of DJ Boot Camp are basically systematic desensitization.

The conditioning starts when you are able to observe things as a child.
They are then reinforced, or hopefully, removed in your later formative years.
Basically, low self esteem issues, and irrational beliefs about women severly limit and color males' perceptions in intergender realtionships.
Add the overwhelming influence of burgeoning Testosterone, and interent porn, and insatiable lust, irrational fantasies, and you've got a LOT of "layers" to get through to get back your real SELF.
Think about it, most if us have some idea what to do with women, what they're about, etc. But the social conditioning around us is so pervasive, that at the end of the day it's hard to blame men whom are intelligent, moral, and goal oriented men who don't have a freakin' clue what women think , want, or how to attract them and deal with them in a sexual/romatice setting.

You can only do so much.
You can lead a horse.....

Latinoman said:

If I was a "hot babe" in todays society...I would be investing in marriage. I mean...where can you almost quadruple your potential to profit?

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Even if a chick isn't overtly seeking a wealthy mate, it's always in the back of her mind. And of course women KNOW that a marriage could be a potential gold mine.

Yet another reason I hesitate to ever get hitched.

Rollo Tomassi said:

EDGER, you're kidding right?

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I wish I was.

Rollo Tomassi said:

But just for sake of debate let me ask you this, what age demographic is towted in popular culture as having a reputation for being more sexually available and easier to hook up with from young men, the 25 y.o. or the 40 y.o. woman?

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I've never really had these discussions with guys about this, except for on the forum here(who testify that older women are easier to lay), so I really don't know. From MY experience at least, I will honestly testify that older women are just as difficult to pull, thus confirming that once again everyone's experience is different, hence "Let your own experience be your guide in life".

Now it's got me thinking, so next time I speak to my buddies I'm going to ask them their opinion on this. Still though, even if they agree with you and a lot of others here that older women are easier to pull, I can still only speak on behalf of my experience.

Rollo, let me give you a good example of what I'm talking about that backs up my point that older women are just as hard to pull. I've recently emailed a bunch of "SINGLE and LOOKING" MILF's(43+) on MySpace from my area. I emailed 8 in total. Out of the 8 women I emailed, 2 never read my email(as the status of the emails said "not read", but I don't know if that's because they just haven't logged in in a while or what), and the rest of the 6 read it. Now out of those 8, only 5 responded, responded only for "attention whoring" purposes that is, because they turned out to be flakes. So that leaves me at ZERO tail.

The only reason I can figure for this happening(pulling no tail here), is because these "older women" seen that I had only ONE "comment indicating interest" on my profile. That chick also happens to be not that attractive. This is exactly what a hot 25 year old chick would do. And my game was TIGHT too. So tell me "older" women are "easier".

PATHETIC... A 27 year old man wasting his time trying to hone his dating skills trying to figure out 43+ year old women (after getting shutdown).

Might as well spent the same amount of time and effort hitting on YOUNGER PRIME women.

This is a clear example of a man that is terrified of taking the leading role in a relationship. Terrified that he cannot compete for the best available women out there. And this is now at 27.

He will reach 30s and 40s and will continue dating the same age group: 43+.

Edger...you do not have to be afraid.

All you have to do is work on yourself. Trying to use "youth" as a tool it is not going to work. If the woman is 43 and happen to be very desirable...she will pick the 50 year old DJ over any man in his 20s. It never fails.

Do you think maybe older women have been burned by too many DJ's? What I mean is, older women seem to have more baggage, they've experienced more...good and bad. But sometimes people hold onto the bad. So an older woman might not want you to have "tight game", because too many times in the past they have learned to associate this with bad outcomes.

So..if you act more like an AFC, you might do better with the older women. Be a nice guy.

Latinoman said:

This is a clear example of a man that is terrified of taking the leading role in a relationship. Terrified that he cannot compete for the best available women out there. And this is now at 27.

He will reach 30s and 40s and will continue dating the same age group: 43+.

Edger...you do not have to be afraid

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Looks like someone around here is hard of understanding after this has been explained to him on at least more than one occasion. Last time I'll get into another debate with you on this, but I'll let this fizzle out till it's over, then I'll call it quits for good...so, you choose to do with what I tell you as you wish. Let's try this again....I can take ANY responsibilities of leadership WITHOUT fear and with EASE. I can EASILY nail young women with consistency, which I DO. Eh, too bad I find OLDER WOMEN more sexually appealing though.

Latinoman, it's funny how you claim to know me and my capabilities with women better than myself. Humorous indeed. You know me personally, right? You live with me, right? You watch me sarge, right? Humorous indeed. You think I wish to lie to you when I tell you I have no problems pulling chicks my age? Why should I lie if I admit to striking out with women on occassion? I don't come on here like I'm sure some guys do trying to create a false persona to feel good about themselves because they can't feel good in real life, and find SoSuave as a way to create a bigger picture than what is already realistic to them. I guess every guy in the "world of Latinoman" who sarges MILF's because he finds them sexually more appealing, simply can't do any better. Jeez man, you're impossible. You need to start believing what people tell you. If not, then I don't know what to tell ya. Take what I say as the truth, or leave it. I can't waste time re-iterating the same petty nonsense when the elevator isn't going all the way up.

Latinoman said:

All you have to do is work on yourself

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Mission accomplished...although there is always room for improvement with EVERYONE. You hear that Latinoman, EVERYONE.

And I'd also like to let it be known that this discussion on my part is discussed on amicable terms, in other words not to take what I say as a personal attack against you.

Fear of rejection has alot to do with abandonment issues. It is usually guys that had AFC fathers or were fatherless growing up that fear rejection the most.

Guys that have been cheated on in serious relationships also compound the fear of rejection, because abandonment was reinforced. Many of these guys just made the wrong choices and kept going with girls that should have stayed one night stands.

Many of these same guys are the most successful by their own merit in life achievements as in jobs, health etc. They are your typical nice and laid back guy because not much phases them (have been through alot), so keeps them from taking action for fear of losing what hasn't been gained yet. Afterall, you can't lose something if you don't have it.

Rollo and Joker, really awesome posts!

The greatest champions and people act out of a desire to win, to be the best. Alexander the Great did what he did because he wanted to see the ends of the Earth. Would anybody have called him a failure if he had stopped his advance before the Indian campaign? Of course not!

I was listening to a football (soccer) match on the radio this evening, in which Newcastle United, a side who are expected to do exceptionally well, were losing again after a run of poor results. One of the commentators made the point that it would be easy for their players to hide, not to seek the ball, and then mentioned that only the best of their players would go after the ball and try something different. They would not be afraid to make a mistake, even in front of 70000 supporters.

Unfortunately today there are not enough people willing to put themselves on the line, to conquer their fear. I am certainly one of those who cannot look past it.

However, the best moments in life are when you do. No matter how something turns out after you take a risk, you are almost always happy that you took it. Surely this implies that it is the best course of action.