I don't get PUA's

Stagger Lee said:

If the neg supposedly works sometimes and for some and not for others, so does just about anything else. The neg makes no real difference in itself. It makes no difference in my experience whether I neg a girl or not. Either the girl is attracted from the start or not, and that determines whether nothing works or just about everything works.

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I disagree here. It seems to me that what you're saying is that attraction either exists or it doesn't and nothing you do makes a difference. I do agree that you have to have initial attraction but I also think that the way you conduct yourself and the personality you project plays a major role in whether or not you get laid.

Yes, there are some guys to whom girls are instantly attracted and ready to fvck right away. But in most cases, the girl has to make an evaluation. The guy may be sufficiently attractive but his actions and the things she learns about him determine if she's going to drop her panties or not.

Some actions increase your chances of getting laid. Some behaviors diminish or completely kill your chances of getting laid. The whole point of this website and hundreds of other pages all over the web is to determine what actions increase a guy's chance of scoring and to avoid those that reduce it.

I agree mostly with what you're saying. I'm not saying nothing you ever do makes a difference. But that doesn't necessarily mean a neg or anything else in particular makes a positive difference on average.

The context was all wrong for the simple reason that negging at an AA meeting using a child a prop isn't going to get a woman aroused unless your very subtle, or it's clear that the only interpretation would be that it was a joke, but given the context it's pretty obvious that there wasn't any rapport.

It's clear that precious few people actually know what a neg is. It has nothing to do with teasing. It has to do with disqualifying yourself from being a "suitor" for her.

Please, I've written over and over what a neg really is. DAFS and find out, all y'all.

Danger said:

Technically incorrect.

Mystery, the inventor of the neg, used the "lint" trick where he would pull a piece of lint off of an attractive girls shirt.

No disqualification there, although disqualifiers are a form of neg.

A neg is something that lowers your target's value or estimation of herself.

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I mentioned Mystery's take on the neg as "disqualifying yourself as a suitor" back on page 2. I've heard Mystery say this when talking about negs. The idea was to make her think you weren't hitting on her, and that opened the door for you to run game on her. A girl seeing you doing the lint trick, for example, would think you must not be hitting on her because that is not something a guy who was hitting on her would do.

Lol, of course now, girls are on to the idea of guys insulting them to try to pick them up, so I'm not sure it would have the same effect these days.

samspade said:

I've thought about that and I don't think it matters much. My buddy told me a girl once called him out on using the Mystery method, but still she kept talking to him and flirting with him after that.

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I was specifically talking about Mystery using a neg to "disqualify himself as a suitor". He wants the girl to think he isn't hitting on her - that buys him some time. If a girl knows about negs (or some less informed might call them insults), she WILL think he is probably hitting on her, therefore it isn't having the desired effect: That she won't think he is hitting on her.

But I agree that just because a girl knows you are using some techniques, or some tired old lines, that doesn't automatically mean she will reject you. If she's attracted to you, she will play along.

I think for a time after The Pickup Artist aired, girls were using "Are you trying to be like Mystery?" or the like as little sh!t tests to see if the guys would lose their cool when being called out.

If you think, "OK I need to neg this girl now or use c&f now," you will probably fail.

If you are going to tease in any way, make it spontaneous.

A chick I just met at the bar was teasing me one night. I responded on the fly...

HB: You're gay blah blah blah

Mike: OMG, you are soo sleeping on the couch tonight.

HB: <smiles> Well....it depends if I end up at your place

It was probably one of my better c&f responses, but I DIDN'T PLAN it. That's the key.

When you plan it (because some guru told you to) and/or are TRYING to take some verbal jab at her, it usually fails.

I'm not against teasing, but it has to be FUN and spontaneous.

My other good teasing example was with the English teacher in Vegas...

HB: Would you like a bl@wjob in front of the Strip?

Mike: I thought we were gonna talk about English grammar. I'm still not clear about the progressive tense.

HB: STFU while I undo your pants.

Anyway, I recommend a neutral approach like Stagger Lee mentioned. If you have an opportunity to be playful ON THE FLY, great, but it's not strictly necessary.

What I object to is the D a vid Dee brainwashing that you MUST be a ball buster or Mistery insisting that you MUST neg. If it works for you, great. But I don't believe it's strictly REQUIRED.

Yeah that's how I see it too Mike. As far as a neg is disqualifying yourself as a suitor, she has to consider you worthy of a suitor in the first place to care. There has to be attraction first based mostly on appearance. If you have that initial attraction a lot of things will work and less things won't work because those things are mostly just white noise.

If I'm trying to disqualify myself as a suitor, I do that by being indirect about my interest, not complementing her etc. I don't see it as I have to verbalize some kind of disqualifier necessarily.

zekko said:

I mentioned Mystery's take on the neg as "disqualifying yourself as a suitor" back on page 2. I've heard Mystery say this when talking about negs. The idea was to make her think you weren't hitting on her, and that opened the door for you to run game on her.

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Thank you. You alone seem to understand what a neg is. I've been trying to drum it into peoples' heads for years.

Anything that makes her believe that you are not interested in her romantically or sexually is a 'neg.' Teasing her, busting her balls, etc. are NOT negs. A neg should show mild disinterest (or strong disinterest with a very young girl). Yes, a neg can lower her own estimation of herself, but the primary objective is to get her to see YOU in a different frame, not herself.

Just recently there was a young (20 yo?) girl sitting in a car in the middle of a parking lot texting on her phone blocking the way. I was in a bad mood, got out of my car, went up to her window, and said, "Is there any way you could get the f*ck out of the way please?" She apologized and sped off to park in a stall. I parked too and got out of my car. We sort of walked past each other into the building and she gave me a big flirtatious smile. Turns out I had "negged" her without trying. Those are the best negs. (But a neg that harsh will only work on a very young girl.)

I've been away from this forum for awhile but isn't backbreaker supposed to be married?

Who the hell uses negs? A negs would imply that you are lower status since you have to use a negs to elevate it. It's better to be higher status and you don't become higher status by chasing women. More likely it'll just make you more insecure in the end. You gain higher status by improving yourself, your career, your life without the aid of a woman. That's the problem with the people they assumed that they need to learn tricks or tactics but don't understand that they need to create the foundations first where those tricks and tactics can shine from.

When a woman tries to tell me things that most guys would be impressed by like she is a model or an actress. I just reply back "That's nice." in a disinterested tone but authentic one because I don't care about trivial $hit like that.

That's the difference from someone who has value who uses this techniques versus everyone else who uses it as a tactic because it's not internal. It's not integrated as a part of themselves. Because of that they may use it but they don't understand it.

Zarky said:

Just recently there was a young (20 yo?) girl sitting in a car in the middle of a parking lot texting on her phone blocking the way. I was in a bad mood, got out of my car, went up to her window, and said, "Is there any way you could get the f*ck out of the way please?" She apologized and sped off to park in a stall. I parked too and got out of my car. We sort of walked past each other into the building and she gave me a big flirtatious smile. Turns out I had "negged" her without trying. Those are the best negs. (But a neg that harsh will only work on a very young girl.)

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That's not a neg.

A neg is a light insult wrapped in a compliment.

Danger said:

Girl: I have to go to the gym today, I feel fat.
You: Oh please, you're not that fat.

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That's a neg.

Zarky said:

You alone seem to understand what a neg is. I've been trying to drum it into peoples' heads for years.

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I hope your joking. You wonder why nobody takes you seriously.

Speculator E said:

I've been away from this forum for awhile but isn't backbreaker supposed to be married?

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Not only that but did Backbreaker get younger? Last time I check I could've swear he said he was 30 and that was 3-4 years ago. Him and his successful business he created at 19. Hot model wife. There's a lot of dreamer in California with the ****ty neighborhoods and poverty taking over that state.

(.)(.) said:

That's not a neg.
A neg is a light insult wrapped in a compliment.

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I think the term "neg" has evolved over time. There's no question most PUAs these days use the word to describe a backhanded compliment of sorts designed to lower the woman's value. Whether that is correct or not, that seems to be a change from the original meaning. If Mystery invented the term, we should see what he had to say about it. Here are a few quotes:

A "neg" is a concept. A "neg" is a statement or action one would make to briefly disqualify oneself from being considered a potential suitor. It's not an insult, I'm not putting the girl down. For instance, if I'm in a group of people and I say, perhaps to my girl of interest, "Hey, can you pass me that napkin, please? Thank you." I go to blow my nose and I look at her and I say, "What, are you gonna watch?" She'll laugh, of course, and I'll blow my nose. I'm not insulting her by doing that but I am disqualifying myself as being considered a potential suitor. Her friends know I'm not after her — I'm blowing my nose in front of her!

Then the friends are disarmed and she's gonna think to herself, "He's not after me." If she's particularly beautiful, she's gonna wonder why. The only solution to why is either that he's gay, in which case he's not threatening, or he's so accustomed to beauty that he must have beauty in his life. So he must be pretty selective and a hard-wired attraction switch gets triggered.
http://gawker.com/286391/how-to-pick-up-women

Neg: Verb, noun: a statement or action made to briefly and without insult disqualify oneself from being perceived as a potential suitor. - Usage: to neg someone, to be negged, to throw negs, to master negging. ~ The Mystery Method

Neg: Any gambit that, without insult, disqualifies oneself as a potential suitor. ~ Mystery Revelation
http://www.puaforums.com/how-pick-up-women/134-stop-negging-hell-out-women.html

Notice that he points out in a couple different places that it is not an insult.

Danger and Tittie Man tied for the win.

Danger said:

Is a neg. It compliments her, but what she also hears and focuses on is "not that fat", meaning she will wonder what you meant by it. It is this hamster cycling which begins the process of hooking her on you.

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I have no argument with any of that. I said earlier in the thread I liked that neg. I'm no expert on Mystery, by any means. It may be that his definition and views on the neg evolved over time. But there IS a subtle difference between what is commonly thought of as a neg today (a backhanded compliment aimed to knock her down a peg), and what he was originally saying . Which was more as Zarky said, a gambit aimed more at influencing how she thinks about you than herself.

Like Mystery said in the interview: "he's so accustomed to beauty that he must have beauty in his life". The idea was to make her think he wasn't interested in her. And if he wasn't interested in her, he must have better options. The difference is a subtle one, but it's there.

My point is not to dictate how we should use or define negs. But since we're discussing them, I'm just pointing out this little tidbit of information, which I believe was the original definition of what a neg is. Mainly I do this because I almost never see this definition used anymore, and certainly not on this forum.

Negging is too, well, negative. I feel like it backfires way more often than it works.

I prefer playful disqualifying of myself while playfully qualifying her. My usual flirting tactic starts with taking any action of her's, no matter how insubstantial, as a way of flirting with me and I immediately act playfully defensive and put her down lightly with no insulting of actual personality or physical characteristics. That's in essence what I do and what flirting is. It keeps things FUN which is really the best way an unattractive guy with only a middle class income (me) can succeed in dating.

This negging stuff doesn't seem to work for me. Perhaps it's too high level and I can't master it. However I really believe there has to be genuine attraction ALREADY on her part for this behavior to heighten tension. Otherwise you will be yet another prick she doesn't like insulting her.

I don’t get the PUA thing either. Throughout my life (I’m now 54) I have gotten a lot of female attention, a lot that I went looking for, and have never resorted to using PUA tactics.

I first became aware of PUAs when ever so often one of them would try to hit on one of my girlfriends. They never succeeded. Whenever I’ve pursued a woman who was also being pursued by a PUA I’ve always won out. Of all the guys that I’ve known or met who claimed to be a PUA, the women that they normally got where not choice women.

I’ve read Mystery’s stuff and seen his videos and have to laugh because I’ve done so much better with just a wink and a smile. The guys who truly get the most women do it with their charm, not by negs or other such games.

At an early age, when I realized that I could be greatly attractive to women, I knew of no role models for what I wanted except for hot women. That is when I’m out I put on a show just like a hot chick will do. No need for a neg or any line at all because the attraction, the desire is there before I ever open my mouth.

Why is it that a man must disqualify himself? Is it that most women really don’t like guys hitting on them? That’s why charm works so well; it makes her think that she is doing the choosing when all she is doing is making herself available for my choosing or not.

Can you expound on the concept of "charm"?

zekko said:

I think the term "neg" has evolved over time.

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No it hasn't. What changed was the "sphere/game" exploding in numbers with a good deal of those newcomers unable to grasp the timing and nuances of a neg. How? I got no idea, but zarky here is living proof a neg still baffles some.

FairShake said:

Negging is too, well, negative. I feel like it backfires way more often than it works.

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Your doing it wrong. A neg should be used on chicks immune to compliments. Try it on hotter chicks. Your not supposed to neg chicks who already have low self worth.

potato said:

I don’t get the PUA thing either. Throughout my life (I’m now 54) I have gotten a lot of female attention, a lot that I went looking for, and have never resorted to using PUA tactics.

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That's rich coming from a baby boomer. The generation actually responsible for unleashing hypergamy and thus creating the counter to it. (PUA's)

The last generation where old school white knighting and chivalry could still get you a lay.

potato said:

I don’t get the PUA thing either. Throughout my life (I’m now 54) I have gotten a lot of female attention, a lot that I went looking for, and have never resorted to using PUA tactics.

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Except you probably DID use PUA tactics without knowing it. Pickup artistry is the study of what attracts women and employing that knowledge to pickup women. Do you honestly believe that in the entire repertoire of PUA tactics, nothing works?

Unless you're really good looking, of high status etc. chances are you had to use some form of Game to attract women. In fact just about every man uses some form of Game i.e. a set of tactics to appeal to the opposite sex.

I first became aware of PUAs when ever so often one of them would try to hit on one of my girlfriends. They never succeeded. Whenever I’ve pursued a woman who was also being pursued by a PUA I’ve always won out.

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Did you ever consider that these so-called PUAs weren't particularly good? There are lots of people who consider themselves to be basketball players but very few of them play in the NBA.

Of all the guys that I’ve known or met who claimed to be a PUA, the women that they normally got where not choice women.

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This contradicts my observations. Go to any club with a lot of hot girls. You'll see lots of guys running PUA material. Some of them suck at it. Some of them are decent. And some of them fvcking kill it and score top notch pvssy.

I’ve read Mystery’s stuff and seen his videos and have to laugh because I’ve done so much better with just a wink and a smile. The guys who truly get the most women do it with their charm, not by negs or other such games.

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Have you seen some of the women Mystery has landed? I think they're pretty hot. Perhaps these women are all fake and they're just paid escorts. But then it's also possible that you're a fat, career masturbator keyboard jockey, isn't it?

The guy has put himself out there in the public eye. He's become quite rich selling his wares. That's more than can be said for anyone here. Yes it's possible that it's all BS but sooner or later, the market catches up when something is overvalued. Maybe he's onto something....

Why is it that a man must disqualify himself? Is it that most women really don’t like guys hitting on them? That’s why charm works so well; it makes her think that she is doing the choosing when all she is doing is making herself available for my choosing or not.

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Well then, enlighten us why don't you? Tell us how you charm the pants off of women so that we can critique your methods which are apparently so much better than what the PUAs have to offer.