The traps of the 20's and how to be a guaranteed HB8

backbreaker · May 19, 2013

I will be 30 in 28 days and it's become apparent to me that the 20's, the time from when you are 21 until you are 30, is just as much about what you DON'T do as much as it's about what you do do.

ages 21-30 are the most important time period for a man IMHO because it sets the entire tone for the rest of your life. You are either ahead of the curve or behind the 8 ball from here on out. By the time you are 30 you can either start to play and have fun or you can be looking at years of doom and gloom.

This is a site about women and it's becoming more and more apparent to me that what makes me attractive at 30 is not what made me attractive at 20. looks always will and always have mattered, but there is a lot more to it then that.

Theses are pitfalls that the vast majority of males between the ages of 21-29 fall into

The divorce trap= i wanted to say the marriage trap but i'm married lol. Jokes aside, marriage in itself is not a problem but marriage to the wrong partner in your 20's will put you behind your male breathern for years. You will be behind the ball ball financially because she will without question take your money, she will probably fvck up your credit and your self esteem

And on top of allt hat, it's just baggage. we talk about women and their baggae but **** men have it too. womend on't want to deal with another woman's drama. And this is assuming there is no alimony payments AND /OR any lingering feelings. No woman is going to put up wtih you while you play wishy washy going back and forth with your ex wife.

Also a woman is going to ask, just like i wouldi ask if i met a woman who is divorced.. why did she get a divorce i don't know if i want someone else's 2nd hand stuff. There might be a very good reason for a divorce, but even if there is it's reason for concern.

If you are going to get married in your 20's you need to make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is the one.

the baby trap - This is the big one. And again full disclosure, i have a knucklehead 5 year old son just turned 5 2 weeks ago. I love the dude more than I love myself, but this is still a trap.

The truth is, the vast majority of men have kids before they are emotionally or financially ready to raise them in this society. you can't be AS care free anymore, you don't' have anywhere near as much disposable income anymore and your financial priorities can't be the same as they were pre child. at least I hope they aren't. What if some kick ass job comes up in your late 20's that you would love to take and it's half way around the country and this is your dream job but you can't do it now beucase you have a 2 year old and your baby momma is tripping if you leave her and the kid behind plus you can't afford the higher cost of living plus taking care of the child. so ****ty job it is for you.

Kids, more than anything, are the number 1 stunter of growth for men in their 20's. put a fvckign condom on for crying out loud please. i know a dude that is 3 months older than me and has 6 freaking girls. "man I like sex" damn bro I like sex too but you know what else I like lol going out to eat with just me and the wife or going on a vacation with just me and the wife or not having to watch Nickelodeon every freaking night and not having to eat nachos and kid food every day. i like sex too but i ware (wore) condoms i don't care how much i trusted the girl.

If you haven o kids and you are 30 and single, you are virtually guaranteed unless you are just like, crazy or abnormal to be a HB7. just this alone.

i have a son but i can afford a son. my son's college is already paid for. i have the same amount of dispoible income as i would have pre kid. thinking about having another. strongly. but i can. most CAN'T. EVEN though i can afford it the only thing and this is a big one, is the time constrains having another one would put on my business / work / ambitions.

this would actually make for a good sub post but i will save that for another day. the wife and i have had some interesting conversations about this issue recently

The debt trap - let's say you are 29 years old and you don;t' have any kids. that's freaking great. And let's say you don't have a bat**** crazy x around and you aren't paying her a monthly fee to fvck someone else. even better.

but what if you are paying 900-1100 a month in school tuition fees, and another 400 dollars a month for a car payment and you got about 20k in credit card debt. it doesn't matter if you are making 60-70k a year if 2500 of that is going towards debt. you are basically making 40k a year.

I'm to even going to say stay out of debt. I will say that your 20's should be to establish your way in the world. by the time you are 30 you should be outside of a house wrapping up debt

i wish more kids fresh out of college would load up on their student loan payments and get that **** over with, screw moving out right now do what you got to do so then when you are 30 you can actually play a little.

the women i know today who are around my age, a little older and a little younger they value looks but that's like 35-40% of the whole package. you need to have income to have a decent wardrobe. you need to have disposlbe income to be able to have fun. not trick but you can't be a guy who is so broke and so behind on his loans where he can't go out with friends to that concert because he doesn't have 10
to spare. that's a guy who isn't going to get laid right there.

something else i've learned is most guys don't so much have bad taste in clothes as much as they just don't have the budget to dress nicely.

That's really it. If you are 30 years old, and you

1. aren't in a stupid amount of debt and even better are in a position to pay your debt off very soon

2. don't have any ex wifes

3. don't have any kids

4. work out often

you are a de facto HB8. it really is that simple. that's it.

sounds crazy. how many guys do you know are all three of the above. no debt, no wife no kids. i know 2. most guys have kids most are in such a hurrty to play house they do it all wrong.

PlayHer Man · May 19, 2013

backbreaker said:
I will be 30 in 28 days and it's become apparent to me that the 20's, the time from when you are 21 until you are 30, is just as much about what you DON'T do as much as it's about what you do do.

That's really it. If you are 30 years old, and you

1. aren't in a stupid amount of debt and even better are in a position to pay your debt off very soon

2. don't have any ex wifes

3. don't have any kids

4. work out often

you are a de facto HB8. it really is that simple. that's it.

sounds crazy. how many guys do you know are all three of the above. no debt, no wife no kids. i know 2. most guys have kids most are in such a hurrty to play house they do it all wrong.

This is actually a useful post Backbreaker.

Regarding that list above, I'm 29 and I fit all 4. No debt, no kids, no ex wife, in great physical shape, etc.

I don't give myself FULL credit. Some of it is luck (good genes, good parents) and some of it was my own desire for self-preservation (a desire many modern men lack). In my early to mid 20's I avoided a lot of the activities that make men "sexy" and "exciting":

- I never took any big risks (never been arrested EVER)
- Always bought used cars and took good care of them
- Never got heavily into drugs
- Went to community college for 2 years and lived off campus when I went to a 4 year college
- Was always stingy with women. No big gifts, no expensive trips and no serious relationships. F*ck and run for the most part.
- Never had unprotected sex
- Always put my emotional and physical health before EVERYTHING

Overall, I've spent my 20's as a pretty boring "play it safe" guy. Socially, I was just an opportunist. I associated with more exciting guys than myself and reaped the benefits.

Now at 29 I can afford to be more "exciting" to pull and keep HB8's... but I don't have any desire to. Girlfriends are expensive in most cases (both emotionally and financially). Why squander the DECADE of sacrifices I've made to reach this point just to give some materialistic wh0re a "fun adventure" for a few years until she decides to leave or attempts to enslave me in marriage so she can own 50% of my hard work? NOPE. :crackup: :crackup:

Most men today have no problem flushing their lives and fortunes away to avoid being left without a woman. I've never believed it was worth it. Especially since its easier and cheaper (both financially and emotionally) to be FWB with a HB8 vs. serious commitment or marriage to one. Also, I like variety.

George Clooney has the right idea--> Make dollars, bang b!tches, spin plates till DEATH.

backbreaker · May 19, 2013

This is actually a useful post Backbreaker.

you act surprised lol.

seriously though thanks

goodganji44 · May 19, 2013

Thanks for the solid post Backbreaker. This sht really hits home.

Playherman,

Dude I feel you. I'll be 29 later this year. No kids, 3 months from being completely debt free, Single, and free to do whatever I want. I fcked a lot of chicks along the way in my 20's, but it wasn't until last year when I started to really kill off my AFC tendencies. It wasn't until I started taking my break on women when I was able to think straight and swallowed the red pill.

What I will say is that it is much easier to take the red pill early as you can in manhood, the older you are when you take the pill and realize what women are really about, the more painful it is to digest. The good thing is in my situation and Playherman's is that the advantage in the dating game belongs to us, because we can be choosy as fvck when it comes to who we would consider dating. But like you, I just can't see giving my assets and all my hard work to a broad who feels entitled to it just because she spread her legs for me.

Back on topic

I have 3 best friends that I would consider brothers that I grew up with. Witnessing their situations unravel before my eyes made me realize how good I really have it. Learning from their mistakes helped me avoid some of my own. I'll break it down

1. Best friend 1 got married at 18. His wife lied to him about her age and she was underage when they hooked up. By the time he found out, she was pregnant. Throughout the marriage, I watched her disrespect my boy in every way imaginable. Including her hitting him with a closed fist in front of their kids. This rollercoaster went on for the good part of 10 years and 3 kids.

Good thing is that they split for good just this past month and his life has shot up dramatically and is on his way to being a true DJ. I'm really happy for him.

2. Best friend 2 swallowed the red pill earlier than all of us. He thought he found the one with a chick we met on the road touring at a show. They had a pretty solid relationship for a few years. Except that her friends were a bunch of party going h0es that was jumping around from dude to dude. They had a child together and he was working his arse off to get things in line for his son and to marry his baby momma. Unfortuantely for him, the reality was that his baby momma was nothing more than a groupie. Henceforth how they met.

She branch swung to some other dude and left my boy high and dry. This was about 5 years ago. Now that dude has dumped her and she has no where to go, she's been trying to chase my friend back. But he just moved in to a house at 27 and enjoying a great woman who supports him and treats him well.

3. I feel bad for him the most. Today he just announced his engagement to his new baby momma who just had their child about a month ago. Normally I'd be happy for him, but man he doesn't realize that he just got snatched.

He just left a very toxic relationship with someone who treated him like crap. But as soon as they broke up, he got himself a house as well. So here he is 27 years old, in a 3 bedroom house, by himself. No kids.

Not even 2 months after the breakup. The "fiance" he's with now decided to come out of nowhere when she found out he was single. Mind you he's tried to hook up with her many times before and they have been friends for about a good 8 years. But she's ready to settle down now that she's older.

She's in her 30's now and has one kid already. Living at her parents house. They have not been getting along since the birth of their child and he constantly talks about if he and her don't pan out. Which imo is a little too early to be talking like that with someone who just had your son a few weeks ago.

They "talked it out" so now he's engaged to this woman. The problem is that her parents have been pressuring her and him to get married. What he doesn't see is the ulterior motives behind what she's doing.

I hope my intuition is wrong, but I REALLY FEEL TERRIBLE about what he's about to go through.

Learning from the situations they've went through made me realize that I'm a survivor from avoiding the main traps that Backbreaker mentioned. I now know what kind of position I'm in and it feels great to understand that at age 30, you have the freedom to do what you want, when you want. All because you played your cards right.

Don Juan on the Bayou · May 19, 2013

I hope you are right BB. I turned 30 a few weeks ago. I used up my 20s establishing myself financially. When I got a job out of college, I put about 5 grand a month into the stock market, for about the last 10 years. So a few weeks before my 30th I finally passed 1 mill in my accounts. I'm also not married and have no kids. Never had a serious gf. And girls can't tell how much money you have just by looking at you - I still look like the regular, slightly below average looking guy I've been. I hope you are right and I get to have some fun in my life at some point. The money is nice but it hasn't ended up with me attracting any women, at least at this point.

PlayHer Man · May 20, 2013

Don Juan on the Bayou said:
I hope you are right BB. I turned 30 a few weeks ago. I used up my 20s establishing myself financially. When I got a job out of college, I put about 5 grand a month into the stock market, for about the last 10 years. So a few weeks before my 30th I finally passed 1 mill in my accounts. I'm also not married and have no kids. Never had a serious gf. And girls can't tell how much money you have just by looking at you - I still look like the regular, slightly below average looking guy I've been. I hope you are right and I get to have some fun in my life at some point. The money is nice but it hasn't ended up with me attracting any women, at least at this point.

That's because money attracts women looking for providers, not women looking for sex. This doesn't mean, however, that you can't use money to get sex. FWB arrangements work best because they allow you to dangle your money in front of her like a carrot in front of a rabbit. She will keep f*cking you in hopes that you will eventually give her some access.

Also.. if you want to use your money to attract women, you have to spend it in a way women like. Women are shallow and materialistic.. so in order to play the money angle, you need to drive a nice ride, have a nice place with a nice view of the city / ocean/ whatever the f*ck.. and wear stylish expensive clothing. You also need to hang out in snobby pretentious places that attract HB8+ gold digging wh0res like flies to potato salad.

So having the CASH is only part of it. How do you use it? If its just sitting around getting bigger and bigger (like it should be) it won't get much attention from women. Most women don't understand money and believe SPENDING is a bigger sign of wealth than SAVING or INVESTING. :crazy:

Don Juan on the Bayou · May 20, 2013

I am totally not interested in being a white knight provider. I'm also not interested in being flashy trying to impress people. I'm more interested in building the pile bigger and building an empire. So I guess no women for me eh?

49au · May 20, 2013

DJ,

I have to agree with what PlayHer Man said. The reason is that I've experienced this first hand.

Women do not understand money, or what real wealth is. They judge by what they see. To them, there is no reason a guy making $100k+ a year shouldn't be wearing Armani and driving a luxury car. They don't understand how pampering, recognition, and luxury shouldn't be his greatest concern. They're very materialistic and animalistic.

One of my good friends is extremely responsible (like you sound), and has a greater net worth than me, despite making less than me. Meanwhile, I have a reputation for blowing a lot of money on cars, strippers, bottle service, high end restaurants, vacations, poker, etc.

My friend has WAY more financial discipline than I do, and would ultimately be a better long term provider for a woman.

But I get access to a sphere of women that he doesn't, only because of my outrageous and visible spending. Are these women good for anything other than sex and arm candy? No. But they're fun.

And it's not just he and I where I see women's stupidity when it comes to a money.

I see many women hor themselves out to attorneys, doctors, etc. They just hear that job title and get wet. But they don't understand the financial realities (most attorneys don't make much, and even the ones that do have outrageous debt; doctors will be around 30 before they even get to low six figures, and they have even worse debt), and stresses, of that type of life.

Other women I've observed, will stupidly hor themselves out to an obvious wannabe con-man, the guy who's always got a "business proposition" that's going to make him rich or whatever.

They're too dumb to realize that there's a million of those guys, and they can't see through his charisma.

And the last two girls I've been semi-serious with, one of them is in medical residency and the other is a pharmacist. Both of them are crazy as fuk, and have between $200-$250k in student loan debt.

I'm not even going to begin to go into the reasons why a guy should run far, far away from "career women" like this.

My combined experience with these two women, and their friends, really shaped my perspective. Give me a girl with some BS job like "promo model" or "wine & spirit sales rep" any day.

49au · May 20, 2013

Don Juan on the Bayou said:
I am totally not interested in being a white knight provider. I'm also not interested in being flashy trying to impress people. I'm more interested in building the pile bigger and building an empire. So I guess no women for me eh?

A cheap man is the equivalent of a woman who won't spread her legs.

Also, "alpha" and "provider" aren't mutually exclusive.

It's not what you spend, it's your underlying motivation and they can smell it. If they know you just maintain a high standard of living for yourself and are allowing them to share in that as a reward for their good behavior, you can keep a dominant frame.

If you can engage their hamster wheel and add passion/emotion/unpredictability to what they perceive as wealth (the stupid status symbols), you'll be a monster.

zekko · May 20, 2013

Regarding the baby trap, it seems like women don't hold it against a guy if he as a kid, not like guys hold it aginst single mothers, anyway. Maybe it's because the guys don't usually have custody, so they don't have to worry about taking on a kid full time.

But the child support is another story. I know guys whose lives are devastated by it, they basically end up living in poverty. That can't help their success with women any.

Anyway, good post BB. Although I think that to be an 8, you need a certain amount of looks, confidence, inner game, outer game etc.

zekko · May 20, 2013

backbreaker said:
That's really it. If you are 30 years old, and you

1. aren't in a stupid amount of debt and even better are in a position to pay your debt off very soon

2. don't have any ex wifes

3. don't have any kids

4. work out often

you are a de facto HB8. it really is that simple. that's it.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think this would probably make you a HB6. You could be a homeless guy and have this apply to you, really. But you probably scale differently than I do. From what you say, BB, I figure you are probably about an 8, whereas maybe in your mind you are a 10. But I don't believe in 10s. Maybe if you were over six feet you might rate a 9, given everything else you have going for you. The way I scale. If I rated guys.

Those four points described me to a T when I was 30. I actually grew up being too debt-averse. I would save up the money before I bought anything, didn't have any credit cards, paid my own way through school. Then I was a little cheesed off to find that I didn't really have any credit. So I got a few credit cards and started charging and paying them off just to build credit. Being frugal doesn't earn you any points in this debt based economy.

backbreaker · May 20, 2013

The mistake you are making is assuming that all HB8 guys know their SMV.

You weren't aware of your SMV as a guy.

think about it. how many guys do you know out of all the guys that you know are the above. I know 2. one is a dork lol and is hopeless. one is not even what i woudl call handsome and his GF is about a HB7.5

you are an HB8 simply because your **** is together. now what you do with that is up to you. Just because you are a hopeless AFC doesn't mean you don't have high SMV you just don't know it.

PlayHer Man · May 20, 2013

backbreaker said:
The mistake you are making is assuming that all HB8 guys know their SMV.

You weren't aware of your SMV as a guy.

think about it. how many guys do you know out of all the guys that you know are the above. I know 2. one is a dork lol and is hopeless. one is not even what i woudl call handsome and his GF is about a HB7.5

you are an HB8 simply because your **** is together. now what you do with that is up to you. Just because you are a hopeless AFC doesn't mean you don't have high SMV you just don't know it.

A man's value is based on his ability to improve a woman's life. A man working as a store manager at Best Buy can easily date a HB8 if she is an 18-year-old cashier (I've seen it).

Value comes in many forms:

-Good genes (looks, height, kids)
-Money
-Bad boy image (novelty, amazing sex, wild ride)
-Beta qualities (Easy to exploit, good father, loyal)
-Celebrity (Status, novelty)
-Muscles (Good genes, can protect her)
-Power (Status, control over the environment, provider ability)

More men can pull HB8's than you would think. Many don't understand that all HB8's are not created equal. A poor HB8 living in a crappy neighborhood and working at a Donut shop with have different values/expectations than a HB8 college student or a HB8 working as a secretary.

This is why you might get an easy date with a HB8.. then get REJECTED by a HB6 just because she happens to be a "career woman" making 200k and feels entitled to Tom Brady.

Why has Oprah stayed single? --> Because she is a HB3 who believes she is a HB10.

Modern women project their own values onto men and assume their attractiveness is based on their level of worldly success. :crazy:

zekko · May 20, 2013

backbreaker said:
The mistake you are making is assuming that all HB8 guys know their SMV.

You weren't aware of your SMV as a guy.

think about it. how many guys do you know out of all the guys that you know are the above. I know 2. one is a dork lol and is hopeless. one is not even what i woudl call handsome and his GF is about a HB7.5

I definitely had problems knowing what my SMV was when I was in my 20s. It was probably one of the biggest things holding me back, honestly, and there was no SoSuave or talk of "inner game" back then.

I don't think having your sh!t together automatically makes you an 8 on the SMV scale though. An 8 in life, maybe. But we are talking about sexual value here. A woman isn't going to be turned on just because you've never been married yet. In fact, it may be quite the opposite. A boring, average looking guy with his sh!t together probably isn't going to rate an 8. An 8 implies some level of hotness, IMO.

As for your buddy, remember you live near LA where you've said there are so many hotties that they can't even all find boyfriends. Fish in a barrel, yes?

Night-hawk · May 20, 2013

Great thread BB. There is some quality posts here.

I am turning 28 soon and see this as a time to really push it. I have gotten wrapped up in pickup and woman and a lot of avoidabe crap that came with it during my 20s and now that I am turning 28 and the lessons I have learned I see how easily distracted women have made me in many areas of my life. Time passes way to quick to only be concerned about success with women. So I relly want to take the rest of my 20s and make up for lost time, mainly financially as I know I have educational foundations laid, I do have some debt to pay off, but I have no kids, no marriage, I'm pretty fit, and I feel younger going into 28 than I used to when I was 21, which says a lot about how subjctive age is but how we are taught to feel so objective about it. Age has a lot to do with your self image and how young you actually feel.

CaliMan007 · May 20, 2013

Danger said:
Good post.

To navigate the mine-field of life up until you are 30 and have all of these lined up properly for you, takes considerable sacrifice and effort. But it is well worth it.

You are basically giving up the prime of your life from a physical standpoint so that you can have a better life later on. When one sacrifices this much of their life so they can have a better future, it makes little sense to being making poor decisions from this point on. Unfortunately, this is what so many men do. They marry the first pretty 30 something girl that recognizes the man's worth, while simultaneously deciding it is time for her to settle

This is why I advocate so strongly the following, despite the gnashing of teeth from the white-knights who want men to man up and marry those sluts.

Do not waste your value on a 30 something h0r. Use your value to secure a younger, less ridden, hotter woman with minimal baggage. Leave the 30 somethings for the Betas.

Do not marry, you will needlessly risk all that you sacrificed fo,r in the event she takes you to divorce court.

Take full advantage of your 30's to fvk as many women as you want before committing to one (assuming you choose to commit).

Now that I'm in my 30's, I totally agree with this! Women in their 30's are dangerous! They're just looking to snag a guy who will provide. I think most women expect to be hitched in their mid to late 20's, so when they're still single in their 30's that's when you get the baggage/insecurities/drama/games. Multiply this by ten for single women in their 40's.

As someone who meets the above criteria (debt free, no kids, never married, etc), I now see that it is me who has everything to lose. I plan on fvcking as many chicks as possible and going after more women in their 20's. Fvck marriage!

backbreaker · May 20, 2013

nevermind. don't want to derail the thread.

MatureDJ · May 20, 2013

I would say that the best thing a young man can do is his 20's is first, don't get into student debt (unless becoming a physician), and then sock away like crazy into a 401K or IRA. Long lasting toys can be bought as well (which could be advantageous as it's hard to buy expensive toys after being in the trap.)

CostaDeSol · May 20, 2013

backbreaker said:
That's really it. If you are 30 years old, and you

1. aren't in a stupid amount of debt and even better are in a position to pay your debt off very soon

2. don't have any ex wifes

3. don't have any kids

4. work out often

you are a de facto HB8. it really is that simple. that's it.
.

cool, its nice to see something positive on this site.

I'm 2 of the above: not married/never been married, and i don't have kids.

i still have about 30k of debt to pay for my student loans that i have from when I got my bachelors degree.

I also need to work out more, but I'm getting around to that.

smoothula · May 20, 2013

backbreaker said:
I will be 30 in 28 days and it's become apparent to me that the 20's, the time from when you are 21 until you are 30, is just as much about what you DON'T do as much as it's about what you do do.

ages 21-30 are the most important time period for a man IMHO because it sets the entire tone for the rest of your life. You are either ahead of the curve or behind the 8 ball from here on out. By the time you are 30 you can either start to play and have fun or you can be looking at years of doom and gloom.

This is a site about women and it's becoming more and more apparent to me that what makes me attractive at 30 is not what made me attractive at 20. looks always will and always have mattered, but there is a lot more to it then that.

Theses are pitfalls that the vast majority of males between the ages of 21-29 fall into

The divorce trap= i wanted to say the marriage trap but i'm married lol. Jokes aside, marriage in itself is not a problem but marriage to the wrong partner in your 20's will put you behind your male breathern for years. You will be behind the ball ball financially because she will without question take your money, she will probably fvck up your credit and your self esteem

And on top of allt hat, it's just baggage. we talk about women and their baggae but **** men have it too. womend on't want to deal with another woman's drama. And this is assuming there is no alimony payments AND /OR any lingering feelings. No woman is going to put up wtih you while you play wishy washy going back and forth with your ex wife.

Also a woman is going to ask, just like i wouldi ask if i met a woman who is divorced.. why did she get a divorce i don't know if i want someone else's 2nd hand stuff. There might be a very good reason for a divorce, but even if there is it's reason for concern.

If you are going to get married in your 20's you need to make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is the one.

the baby trap - This is the big one. And again full disclosure, i have a knucklehead 5 year old son just turned 5 2 weeks ago. I love the dude more than I love myself, but this is still a trap.

The truth is, the vast majority of men have kids before they are emotionally or financially ready to raise them in this society. you can't be AS care free anymore, you don't' have anywhere near as much disposable income anymore and your financial priorities can't be the same as they were pre child. at least I hope they aren't. What if some kick ass job comes up in your late 20's that you would love to take and it's half way around the country and this is your dream job but you can't do it now beucase you have a 2 year old and your baby momma is tripping if you leave her and the kid behind plus you can't afford the higher cost of living plus taking care of the child. so ****ty job it is for you.

Kids, more than anything, are the number 1 stunter of growth for men in their 20's. put a fvckign condom on for crying out loud please. i know a dude that is 3 months older than me and has 6 freaking girls. "man I like sex" damn bro I like sex too but you know what else I like lol going out to eat with just me and the wife or going on a vacation with just me and the wife or not having to watch Nickelodeon every freaking night and not having to eat nachos and kid food every day. i like sex too but i ware (wore) condoms i don't care how much i trusted the girl.

If you haven o kids and you are 30 and single, you are virtually guaranteed unless you are just like, crazy or abnormal to be a HB7. just this alone.

i have a son but i can afford a son. my son's college is already paid for. i have the same amount of dispoible income as i would have pre kid. thinking about having another. strongly. but i can. most CAN'T. EVEN though i can afford it the only thing and this is a big one, is the time constrains having another one would put on my business / work / ambitions.

this would actually make for a good sub post but i will save that for another day. the wife and i have had some interesting conversations about this issue recently

The debt trap - let's say you are 29 years old and you don;t' have any kids. that's freaking great. And let's say you don't have a bat**** crazy x around and you aren't paying her a monthly fee to fvck someone else. even better.

but what if you are paying 900-1100 a month in school tuition fees, and another 400 dollars a month for a car payment and you got about 20k in credit card debt. it doesn't matter if you are making 60-70k a year if 2500 of that is going towards debt. you are basically making 40k a year.

I'm to even going to say stay out of debt. I will say that your 20's should be to establish your way in the world. by the time you are 30 you should be outside of a house wrapping up debt

i wish more kids fresh out of college would load up on their student loan payments and get that **** over with, screw moving out right now do what you got to do so then when you are 30 you can actually play a little.

the women i know today who are around my age, a little older and a little younger they value looks but that's like 35-40% of the whole package. you need to have income to have a decent wardrobe. you need to have disposlbe income to be able to have fun. not trick but you can't be a guy who is so broke and so behind on his loans where he can't go out with friends to that concert because he doesn't have 10
to spare. that's a guy who isn't going to get laid right there.

something else i've learned is most guys don't so much have bad taste in clothes as much as they just don't have the budget to dress nicely.

That's really it. If you are 30 years old, and you

1. aren't in a stupid amount of debt and even better are in a position to pay your debt off very soon

2. don't have any ex wifes

3. don't have any kids

4. work out often

you are a de facto HB8. it really is that simple. that's it.

sounds crazy. how many guys do you know are all three of the above. no debt, no wife no kids. i know 2. most guys have kids most are in such a hurrty to play house they do it all wrong.

This is pure gold. Of all the informative info on this site - this is the most important in my opinion. Great stuff BB. Here's my background:

I just turned 40. Never married. No kids. No debt. Great shape. A millionaire. Great Career. Motorcycles, Audi S5, Fly Fishing Trips all over the world. Plenty of *****. Plenty of friends. Happier than ALL the married people I know. Yet they continue to ask...."When are you getting married." I use the standard response, "I'm enjoying life too much right now being single"

I'm not saying this to toot my own horn - just to give some evidence of what BB is preaching. I almost made the mistake of getting married in my early 20's, but managed to just avoid it. After that incident, my goal became improving myself and becoming financially independent.

You guys in your 20's can have the same thing if you choose too. The keys:

-LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS!! This doesn't mean you have to starve or not have a good time, but racking up debt to impress other people or for short term pleausres is the deathblow to freedom and choices.

-DRIVE USED CARS! To this day i have never bought a new car even after I became financially set. It's truly a horrible investment buying new. Drastic depreciation, high insurance, interest on loans.....WTF!! All for what?? Trying to impress other people?? People should be impressed by the content of your character not the material bull****. And if a chick can't handle your used ride...NEXT. Tells you all you need to know about her.

HOUSING - I rent a 1 bedroom In-Laws quarters for $650 per month....includes utilities...IN CALIFORNIA. Nice place, but small....which is exactly what I want. If something breaks... I call the landlord. Saves my precious time and $$$. I have a gated driveway where I have a motorycle and usually 2 (used) cars. Nice deck for BBQ's, storage. My place is 2 miles from work....saves gas and stress from a commute. Why have the expense of a big house and the headache of keeping it up. Historic return on housing is between 1-2% I believe. I can make more $ off of other investements. Don't be fooled by those that claim buying a house is such a great investment. These same people at work used to make fun of me prior to the housing meltdown. Now they're envious.

-AVOID THE MARRIAGE\KIDS TRAP....as Kramer once said...."Prisons....Man made prisons" Now that being said, if you come across one that meets certain criteria (career, driven, FRUGAL, attractive, doesn't want a litter of kids, etc) after the age of 30 - go right ahead....with one eye open of course). I could have been marriend a few times. Just haven't found one that meets my criteria and I'm not making a man made prison for any *****. ***** comes n goes. I'm not putting a ring on any woman unless she brings as much to the relationship as I will.

Anyway, I could go on and on. I'm not saying I have a perfect life, but it's pretty damn good. If work pisses me off....I got what they refer to as "The **** You Money." I can walk at anytime and be in Montana fly fishing the next day. You can't put a price on that type of freedom IMO. Ain't no ***** worth giving that up. Don't get me wrong - finding a woman who meets my criteria would be a bonus, but I'm not going to force it. I date all the time.

The traps of the 20's and how to be a guaranteed HB8

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