Infinite Improvement [Journal]

Hey thanks for the info again, I just want to do a little reflection on women and my approaches.

I hate to pull the Black card out, but I can't help but to think that my skin color really drives girls away. Plus, with the shortage of black girls, I get attention from the less attractive ones, but I get blown out by the fine ones. I walked up to this one girl (I didn't get any IOI's, but I thought I'd give it a go anyway) and I asked her what she got from the cafe. She said an apple, merely glancing at me then looking straight forward again. I start saying stuff about how she must be going healthy and such and such, but she just said "yeah" returning zero eye contact. I got kind of pissed, but I didn't let it show. The conversation kind of just dropped there and I went on my way.

I am done with low interest women.

But on a lighter note, I had to start looking out for women that give me IOI's. Today at the cafe, I saw this one girl sitting eating alone. So I shot a look at her and she looked back. I kind of smiled a little at her, but then I got nervous and looked away. Doing a little better. I tried once more and she locked eyes once again. I forced myself to look for an extra 2 seconds longer then I backed off and walked away. Keep in mind, this is just practice for eye contact, but to my surprise she got up and walked past me (behind me). She went to one of the counters and looked around. I don't know if she was giving me a chance but EFF IT.
I go up next to her and just throw out "have you tried this before?" pointing at some weird looking soup. She says she has and we talk about it and such, but I realized that I wasn't making sufficient eye contact. So I start looking into her eyes and it was kind of crazy, but she instantly started getting closer to me, almost leaning into me. I was blown away by this (well not really) but then I got nervous again and just said "Thanks, I'll have to try it sometime." That was a major afc move in my book.

Well, I made EC with her, I talked to her, she shown signs of interest, why did I stop? I wanted to punch myself in the face, but then I was NOT going to stop there. She was back in her seat, so I came around like I forgot something. I grabbed an orange and looked at her on the way back.

She didn't return it

I mean, hey: "You hesitate, you masturbate". But, I came up to her like "I would MUCH rather have this choice" with a smile on my face. She smiled back. I didn't want to get the number because of the whole random dude trying to get numbers, so I told her that I don't really eat with people since they don't go to the cafe and it would be cool if we eat together. She said sure and we set up for a couple days.

Those plans were awfully easy to flake on, plus without my number she doesn't have to make a BS reason to flake, but WHATEVER. This was just supposed to be EC practice and I got a date out of it, lol.

Lessons Learned

• This eye contact sh!t WORKS! ...assuming she is interested
• It really doesn't matter what you talk about, as long as you are showing sexuality in it. I mean c'mon, we were talking about SOUP and she was leaning into me.

Yeah. I'd say, once again, you're learning some valuable stuff, simply by observation. Another thing is, remember, all we care about is high or low interest. We don't care about the "why's". That means it doesn't matter if the reasons for high or low interest are because of your height or your skin color or your style of dress. Or if you're muscular or not, or whether or not you're a surfer dude or a business man.

If your skin color is blue with yellow polka dots, then you just look for the women that like men that are blue with yellow polka dots and you AVOID the women who are not attracted to blue men with yellow polka dots. Now, you've learned something here about eye contact. From my point of view, moving forward and reciprocating begin BEFORE she has ever initiated any kind of friendly physical touch.

I can't stress this enough. ONE SIGN ALONE DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN SHE'S SEXUALLY ATTRACTED. But, like reading a book, you can't know the whole story until you get farther into the story. So at the very least, you were getting some friendship signals. The thing is, you continue reading her signals, and the more signals she gives you, the more you can come to certain conclusions.

Now, if she kept repeatedly inching closer, she was feeling comfortable. THIS IS ALL WE KNOW FOR SURE. But the probability of her being somewhat attracted to you increases the longer she's in your space and the more signals she throws out. Now if she stays in your space and holds her hands on you using lingering touches, we would say she's showing more interest. I'm not talking about a rough pat on the back. I'm saying, let's say a woman scoots within a few inches from you when it is completely unnecessary.

And she is touching you a lot and holding eye contact. Now let's say she narrows her eyes and at some point in the conversation she bites her lower lip. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A RANDOM CHECKLIST OF ISOLATED SIGNALS. We NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER READ TOO MUCH INTO ONE SIGNAL AND GIVE IT EXCESSIVE MEANING.

But grouped together and repeated over and over, we gradually can read a woman's level of interest. The thing is, once you learn how to observe these signals, gradual doesn't have to mean slow. Gradual could be fast. Think of it like this. You can turn a stove to 400 degrees in just one second. Sure, you have to turn the dial past 100, 200, 300, and to the 400 mark. But it was a gradual progression that happened quickly.

Definitely, DO NOT RUSH LEARNING THIS. Like tying your shoes, you'll take a little time to learn it, and you'll be able to tie your shoes slowly first, then a little more quickly, until eventually you can tie your shoes very quickly. What you can do if you want to master this stuff is a few things. Reread my old replies to this subject. Watch the video I linked to in one of my earlier replies. Now, once you do this, don't do any approaches. Simply enjoy your life and your daily routine and during your daily routine look for the non-verbal signals that women give and specifically, for the ones that I've listed and that are listed in the video.

This means instead of approaching, you simply observe for these signals. Do this for about 2 weeks. Notice, for example, when you're having a conversation with a cashier, what is her body language. Is she making normal eye contact and being polite or does she make lingering eye contact and then wink at you? Then maybe hold the eye contact and start playing with her jewelry while keeping eye contact. Does she then narrow her eyes at you?

I'm going to give you an example I saw in a movie, because these actors were doing a good job of portraying interest non-verbally and through indirect communication. A man and woman were sitting in a cafe having a conversation and talking about personal things that you wouldn't normally tell just anyone. Not sexual things. Just personal things. Their likes. Dislikes. Insecurities. They were both maintaining lingering eye contact and smiling during their conversation. The woman would occasionally lean in to him. And there were other signals they were both giving off.

At some point during the conversation she said she had told these things to her therapist and that she had taken the therapists advice. He said "I don't believe in therapists. You should never take advice from someone you've never been intimate with.". Then while smiling she said "Well, then what you're saying is, I shouldn't take your advice.". He said "What do you mean?" She smiled again, leaned toward him a little and said awkardly "Well, WE haven't slept together." and she laughed just a little as she said it.

This is a verbal signal that simply complemented and added to the ongoing non-verbal signals. As another example. I remember a verbal signal that I chose NOT to capitalize on. I was sitting across the room from my friend's girlfriend and she was teaching me a little Spanish. She was a good 10 feet away from me. She said to me "Quire comer conmigo?". "Do you want to eat with me?". "Quiere bailar conmigo?". "Do you want to dance with me?". "Quiere dormir conmigo?". She didn't say the English meaning but she knew I knew enough Spanish to understand.... It means "Do you want to sleep with me?". Of course, I pretended to be dumb and not understand what was going on.

But I knew EXACTLY what was going on and made sure I was never alone with her in a room, simply to avoid her trying anything with me. Because I am a good friend and would never betray my friend's trust like that and wanted to avoid an awkward situation. I also felt like I was better off not telling him what she had said. I felt like he couldn't trust her but she'd never tried to jump on me so I felt like I was better off just leaving it alone.

All I'm saying is that women's verbal communication can also be a signal. It will usually be indirect. "I wish SOMEONE would grab me!" while keeping heavy eye contact and moving in closer to you vs. "I want to have sex with you.". The first one is more likely with a woman you've never had sex with. Once you've been sexual with a woman, she usually will be more direct. "I want you to f**k me. NOW!" Or "I want to have sex with you. I want you.". As a final note, women you've had sex with will still use indirect communication but will also feel free to be more direct.

Okay, I guess I did read into her actions a bit more than I needed to. The signs she threw out were eye contact, proximity, and actually talking back (as in not one word answers). But, I got some seemingly good news as of recently. Made some approaches with relevant openers and got some good results. Only problem I can see with them is that now I am not sure whether to close or not lol. I don't really know that threshold where she is open to giving me her number, but that will definitely be something for me to work on/experiment with.

I will start off with the worst one:
I was at the gym, just pumping some iron and this super hot chick. (she was okay/cute in the face, but had a great combo of a** and legs) She started doing some squats next to me and I just played it off like it was nothing at first. But then I was like "eff it," I go up to her and ask her about her form on squats and we start talking about different forms and her athletic background. During this convo, she was giving eye contact, but breaking it off almost to avoid awkwardness. I narrowed mine down and she eventually narrowed hers as well. Then while talking she got a bit closer to me and we continued talking. Didn't number close, I felt like it would have been a big jump from stranger to text buddies and just 2 good signs didn't feel like enough. About 15 minutes later, she is talking to some other dude across the room. I don't know if she gets hit on all the time, because she seemed to be very receptive to whoever talked to her. Maybe just friendly...

Number two:
This one was very, very good, but I didn't number close and we won't see each other again until Monday... I could have grabbed her number and set something up for this weekend, but it's all good. So in class we were given an assignment to give out surveys. After class, she was walking in front of me and I just went up behind her and asked "You know who you're questioning?" We talk about it and I just go "I don't know who I'm going to ask, you wanna use each other and knock one off the list?" She agreed and we sit and give the survey. I made her laugh, said some surprising things to spark some emotion and I noticed good eye contact and multiple hair brushing. We were in 2 separate seats so proximity was kind of locked in place. I want to say she was leaning in, but I'm not sure so let's not make false behaviors. We finish and it was funny because we never even asked each others names and she already knew my name! I felt special, but I always speak out in that class so everyone in there must know my name. It really felt like she was feeling me; the number probably would've been a sure shot.

This one was probably the best of the three:
I was at the dancing social and there was a newbie there. She had a ginormous rack! I don't know why, but every time I see a girl with a great physical attribute, I automatically think I can't have her, I have to stop thinking that way. But, I was walking around and I caught her eye. I smile at her, walk up to her, hold out my hand and ask her to dance. She agreed and we proceeded to dance. The first half was a pretty conventional dance until I did a close up move and she pressed herself against me. I did this completely by accident, I wasn't even trying to seduce her. But, since she was showing the signs, I decided to escalate a bit. I start making her do raunchier moves and she let it all happen. We ended up dancing for 2 songs in a row and I told her I was going to take a break. ~~~ Later on, I sit down next to her and start making small talk. I compliment her on her shorts and she started giggling and put her hands on her legs. I thought about making some dirty jokes, but I couldn't come up with anything. :l She gave me her full name and told me to add her on FB. Then she was going to leave, and I went in for the handshake goodbye. Just before she took my hand I retracted it back and said "Wait, that's so awkward shaking a woman's hand, here this is better." Then I opened my arms for the hug, she jumped in and I gave her a hard squeeze (felt good around the chest area ) and that was that.

I have really been trying to read signals and it seems to be getting me positive results. Any negative approach I made would just get dropped within the first 2 minutes without worrying about number closing. Now I just need to work on the opposite and ask for the number if she does show signs of interest. Another thing I've noticed is that I need to escalate/reciprocate interest. I think that since I am focusing on reading her signs, I don't try to provoke more out of her. I assume by doing that, she will be aroused enough to give me her number.

What to do now

• Combine the escalation ladder and pattern observation to seal the deal.
• Practice using dirty jokes/sexual innuendos

I just wanted you to see more examples of a woman showing signals of high interest through eye contact and body language. Notice how in the beginning she maintains a trance-like gaze and notice the soft quality of touch as he grabs her hand gently. Also notice after the bedroom scene, when they return to the restaurant, how she maintains a certain type of eye contact and as she watches him leave, how she begins stroking her necklace.

Don Juan DeMarco Restaurant Scene - http://youtu.be/ZQiRtJ6uumk

Update just to make sure I am tracking my steps

Been kind of down on my progress lately. Since the beginning of the school year, I think I have approached roughly 30-40 girls. The ones I don't post about are the ones that go terribly. i.e. She ignores me or tries to eject early. Once again, it is starting to feel like it's impossible to get an interested woman. I don't know how some of these guys on the board do it. It is kind of starting to get to me because I would at very least try to go for a friendly smile, not even trying to game her, just trying to be friendly, and she just rolls her eyes like she's pissed or something. Bitterness towards women is starting to settle in again... :l

The other day at a meeting some group of girls wanted to know how much I weighed (one of the girls I've been seeing was with them). I asked them why, but they just insisted me to tell them. I told them and one of them starting going like: "Oh, that's too light weight, men need to be at least xxx pounds." And they all started agreeing. The girl I was seeing didn't really say much, but she is shy to begin with. I tried making eye contact with her, but she kept avoiding it, but obviously knew I was looking at her. I'm pretty sure she's been talking about me behind my back, so now her friends want to boost her ego by making me look bad. Women are starting to piss me off...

I skipped my workout for the day because of class, so I told my girl there that I was going to work out. (It was about 10pm) She starts going like "Really? Why?" She started looking at me like I was a weirdo. I asked if she wanted to walk back and she said yeah. 5 minutes later, after talking to her friends, she comes back to me saying she's going to go back to her friends place instead so I could just go home.

Disrespectful tone + the avoiding eye contact + friends talking down to me + showing up late for dates (I didn't enter this into the journal) + ditching me = this chick getting on my nerves.

I really don't want to end up with 0 plates again But I am ****ing through with uninterested women, I've said it before. :box: After seeing how the most innocent women can be straight up b!tches, I would much rather be single than with an uninterested woman.

On a lighter note: at the gym I met with a guy who I believe is a "natural" alpha. We ended up spotting each other and had an interesting talk about giving out your best appearance and staying persistent. That's that kind of pep talk I need when I'm feelin' down on my luck.

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But to follow up with my last post

Since I didn't get the gym girl's number, there was no following up. The second girl, I got her number the next class, I offered to study today and she declined. I offered another one for tomorrow and I let her know that if she didn't accept this one, then it was no deal. She said she will have to SEE IF SHE IS AVAILABLE TOMORROW... I am expecting a no... How do you not know what your schedule has... TOMORROW? She seemed really interested, but I'm probably confusing friendliness with interest again...

And I didn't see the third chick, so no follow up. :l

Ok. You're getting frustrated at the behaviors of women with low interest. THIS IS A GOOD THING. Like the Emperor said to Luke: "I can feel the anga building up within you!". This is a blessing in disguise. See, you're beginning to see that low interest women aren't worth the aggravation. This is one way to knock women off of that pedestal. By being more selective. Ok. I think this has been long overdue. I'm going to be posting visual after visual, either in the form of links to video or to pictures. I'll let the video keep doing the talking and reduce my descriptions to the bare minimum.

I found this video that might be helpful... Besides what the narrator describes, I want you to notice that when the man puts his arm behind the woman's chair, without touching her, that she moves in closer to him. She reciprocates by closing the distance even more. She also flips her hair and smiles.

How to Read Romantic Female Body Language: http://youtu.be/SHhOj1a_5vo

I'm sending another link with visuals. I want you to have a clear understanding of the body language signals of attraction and how they work. Also, how to avoid misinterpreting friendliness for flirting and signs of interest on her part. Read the information there and also, after looking at the pictures and reading the description of signals, read the part at the bottom called "Things to be noted". It talks about men misinterpreting friendliness as something more or reading too much into behavior.

http://www.reading-body-language.co.uk/female_body_language.html


Now that you're done reading that, take a breather. Absorb that and come back, so your mind is fresh.

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Now on to dissecting one of your positive experiences, along with my comments on the signals and how to proceed forward. I will put the parts I want to focus on and my comments in bold. I'm numbering for convenience.

1) "I smile at her, walk up to her, hold out my hand and ask her to dance. She agreed and we proceeded to dance. The first half was a pretty conventional dance until I did a close up move and she pressed herself against me."

*** Signal #1: She enjoyed being close to you and was being proactive. This is a signal of interest where SHE is closing the gap.


2) "I did this completely by accident, I wasn't even trying to seduce her. But, since she was showing the signs, I decided to escalate a bit. I start making her do raunchier moves and she let it all happen.

***So far so good. She at the very least enjoys dancing close with you and doing dirty moves on the dance floor.



3) We ended up dancing for 2 songs in a row and I told her I was going to take a break. ~~~ Later on, I sit down next to her and start making small talk. I compliment her on her shorts and she started giggling and put her hands on her legs.

*** She reacted positively to your comment and she giggled. She also did a form of self-caressing when she put her hands on her legs.



4) She gave me her full name and told me to add her on FB.

*** At this point, you could have also asked for the number. Get her Facebook and her phone number. Then just use the phone number. "Hey, I was thinking, we'll have to get together some time. Let me give you my number. Then when you do that ask her "What's your number?".

I'd say given that she gave you repeated signals, I would safely bet you probably had a 80% chance of getting the number. This is a LOT more reliable than just blindly walking up to women and asking for their numbers.


5) Then she was going to leave, and I went in for the handshake goodbye.

*** For women who are showing interest, you can do a handshake a little differently. You do a gentle handshake where your palm is turned up and her hand is on top of yours. Hold it for a second and hold eye contact.

Or you can hug her. No need to verbalize it though.


In conclusion. The signals, one after the other after the other, give you an indication that her interest is high. We use them as a way to increase the probability of finding interested women. Then when we go for the number, we have a high probability of getting a good number and a low probability of outright rejection.

So here's what you do in your head. "Ok. She's maintaining heavy eye contact and stroking her necklace as we talk. Good. Ok. Now she's moving in closer to me. Good. Now she's making eye contact and playing with her hair. Good. Now she's touching me excessively, innocently during our conversation. Good. Now, I squeeze her arm gently during our conversation. She's smiling and pressing her breasts into me. It just happened for a second. It could have been an accident. Ok. Maybe not. She just did it again. Now she just removed the little straw from her drink and is sucking on it while making eye contact. Now she's laughing excessively at what I say and rubbing my thigh."

Good, good, good, good, and good. If a woman is doing all of those things, and then you gently put your index finger in her hand, she will probably hold your index finger, like a baby does. It can go from there to holding hands. Or you can safely ask for the number and have an 80% or higher chance of getting it. You'll rarely have to deal with outright rejection, because you're reading her ahead of time.

Aristippus said:

Ok. You're getting frustrated at the behaviors of women with low interest. THIS IS A GOOD THING. Like the Emperor said to Luke: "I can feel the anga building up within you!". This is a blessing in disguise. See, you're beginning to see that low interest women aren't worth the aggravation. This is one way to knock women off of that pedestal. By being more selective. Ok. I think this has been long overdue.

Click to expand...

Quoted for truth.

Trust me when I tel you. You are not compatible with every girl you want to fvck. And then there are times when you are compatible with girls you want to fvck but a)They have a man b) They are not looking to date right now because of something that has nothing to do with you.

Really, don't take this streak of uninterested girls personally. Make sure you are hitting up scenes where the ratio of girls you are interested in will be in your favor. If you are looking for one night stands, you need to be in the club looking for the drunk, promiscuous chick. If you are looking for a relationship, figure out what you like in a girl and where that girl is likely to be on a regular basis and go there

macallik said:

Quoted for truth.

Trust me when I tel you. You are not compatible with every girl you want to fvck. And then there are times when you are compatible with girls you want to fvck but a)They have a man b) They are not looking to date right now because of something that has nothing to do with you.

Really, don't take this streak of uninterested girls personally. Make sure you are hitting up scenes where the ratio of girls you are interested in will be in your favor. If you are looking for one night stands, you need to be in the club looking for the drunk, promiscuous chick. If you are looking for a relationship, figure out what you like in a girl and where that girl is likely to be on a regular basis and go there

Click to expand...

I try :l

Most of these women seem very, very cautious to meet guys, even if they like them. I can't shake this feeling that all women secretly hate men.

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I wish I could transition that onto a lighter note, but I have once again had a run in with another low interest girl.

So remember number 2 from a couple posts back that did the survey with me? She texted me the day after saying that we could study later that day around 6. I told her that I couldn't because of work. (I told her that it was the afternoon or nothing) The exam passes and earlier today I texted her to ask how she did. Blah blah blah, small chat and I ask her to come and study later today because we have another quiz next week. She says "Sure." When the time rolls around, I get to the library and wait for about 10 minutes. I end up texting her asking where she is, and surprise surprise... She "FORGOT" and she "CAN'T STUDY LATER" (it was only 7:00). I was really pissed, but I just texted her saying "ok, gl on the exam then..." Then she starts sending me all these apologetic texts and ****, but after 2 declines and a technicality, I didn't want to waste any more of my time. I didn't reply to them.

If she seriously wants to come and study, she is going to have to come all the way to my f***ing apartment herself, because I am not about to run the risk of walking out and waiting for her only for her to be like "Oh, my phone broke, I can't come." or some other bs reason.

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I made some good approaches and some eye contact practice and was getting some good IOI's on a lighter note.
Just didn't get any numbers. :l

More flirting body language: http://youtu.be/D879_w3bUTA

Just keep honing your observation skills. Keep looking for the ones that give off these types of signals.

p.s. Don't worry about any advertisements in the video. Just pay attention to body language and move forward little by little.

Thanks for the examples, I just need to continue improving my escalation game. I mean, its great to know when she is interested and all, but there is still some responsibility on me to not say something stupid or something that might scare her away. But, I digress, I approached a girl on the way back to my apartment. I didn't really like her, but I was like "practice!" So I went up to her and talked about how much I liked her outfit.

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Her: Oh yeah? Well I like to look decent when I go out
FBN: I see, it fits you nicely (grin)
Her: Haha, thanks (grins back)
FBN: Where you off to on this wonderful afternoon? *it was pouring rain all day*
Her: Hah, just going back to my place.
FBN: Nice, after a long day of work right? You gonna chill out with your hot shot bf?
Her: Haha, no. I'm going to just nap or maybe hang out with my friends
FBN: What do you do for fun? Other than play dress up (points at her outfit)

*a rather chitty-chat phase in the convo about her interests. She was giving me some real good EC, she had a hood on but was brushing her bangs out of her face. Does that count as the hair-brush IOI?*

FBN: You sound lame! Me and my friends do WAY cooler stuff than that!
Her: Like what!?
FBN: Wouldn't you like to know?
Her: Well... yeah if what I do is nothing compared to what you do.
FBN: Well I am kind of late for my appointment so I can't go into detail with you now. Tell you what. Gimme your phone number and I can get you some cool ideas.
Her: Hmmm...
FBN: What? That or you can spend the rest of your life watching home movies.
Her: Haha, okay, here it is xxx
FBN: xxx, that's weird.
Her: Yeah its a fake number.
FBN: OH! Okay cool. So I call this number and ask for the rejection hotline?
Her: Haha, yup!
FBN: Cool, I gotta go brag to my friends how I got a number when I really didn't. See ya! *I wasn't angry or nothing*
Her: Okay, bye!

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Then I went out to the movies with one of my plates because she has been giving me signs that she wants a relationship... :l
The night was meh, I didn't make a move on her in the movie (mainly because I was actually liking the movie LOL) but then she started to lean into me, so then I put my arm around her. I mean, it's just crazy how I look back to high school, I thought I would have to jump through tons of hoops just to get a girl to go to the movies with me. Now I got a girl asking me to go with her. Just crazy to think about, haha. :crazy: At the end of the night, we kissed and split. I didn't take her back to the place because I had work the next day.

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Oh yeah! Speaking of work. I got paid! I only worked 5 hours, but I got paid $10 for each of those hours. I just felt like a boss when my boss handed me those bills! I know it's not that much money, but I have been a lazy ass for the majority of my life (job-wise). So it was cool to experience that.

Then my boss offered me to help him in making a business for one of his friends. He just needs me to make him some networking sites. I guess I got to research that stuff up. I mean, I can make a website, but it's been so long since I've done that.

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Then finally,

I was in the centre building, and this girl was eyein' me up. She had a real nice set of strong legs (I'm a sucker for legs). But, it did not hit my mind to go and talk to her until after I walked past her LOL. I felt real stupid, she gave me the opportunity of a lifetime, she even walked slow as hell out the door like she wanted me to chase her. But I had a meeting for the business, so my sorry ass brain rationalized it. Really should have went in on that, the strongest IOI I've seen since I started looking out for them. I could've been like "Nice skirt you got on " or "Why you eyein' me up? Got beef? :box: We can take it outside or my place!" or even "Hey! I met you before! I'm sure I have or you wouldn't have been lookin' my way right? "

or eff it, possibly even "Hey, hold up. I heard from a rap song that if I see an attractive woman, I should walk right up to her and say: 'hey girl how ya doin?'.... Hey girl how ya doin? "

It would've been so perfect.

This is what happens when a woman is actually interested in you

So my lab partner (will be nicknamed LP for the rest of this journal) and I were walking back from a study session and I thought that it was a good time to test some more aggressive techniques on her. I decided that we should just stroll around and decided to go back to her car because she forgot something. We were joking around and stuff by her car and I asked to see whats in her trunk. She sad no, but then I reached for her keys and we end up wrestling for it (kino!) and I eventually got my hands on it.

We keep wrestling and then I started tickling her... So, it's 10pm at night and there was just me and LP tickling/wrestling each other in the middle of a parking lot. If anyone was watching from a nearby building, they would've thought I was trying to rape her. :nervous: The tickling got to a point were I was behind her and my arms where around her waist. I dropped it from there. There was some more kino on the way back (trying to bump each other out of the sidewalk) then we talked and parted with a hug.

The very next day she texts me to go to another study session with her. I declined because I didn't feel like it. An hour later she texts me again to go to an event with her in the centre that same night. At this point I realized that she was very much interested in me, inviting me out to 2 different things in one day. I still declined because she was definitely the type to try and trap a guy into a relationship before doing anything with them. No thank you.

I finally understand what DJs mean when they say interested girls will do anything they can to be with you.

Hey Fly,
Hope you're doing good. Anyway, just wanted to comment on a couple of things. First off, there's a lot you're doing right. You're making good progress. Now, I'm going to mention something I noticed so you can avoid doing this in the future. I noticed something you said in a conversation sounded a bit try-hard.

Quote:
"FBN: You sound lame! Me and my friends do WAY cooler stuff than that!
Her: Like what!?
FBN: Wouldn't you like to know?"

I understand that you were joking, but these kinds of comments come across as try-hard. You're not the first person I've notice make this particular type of statement in conversation. It creates the appearance that you're trying to impress other people and it also can come across as "I'm laughing AT you and not with you.". I know that wasn't your intention, but that is what these types of statements communicate. Either trying too hard to impress or joking around at her expense. I'll give you an examples of jokes that are a good idea to keep off limits. Any jabs or jokes about a person not having a fun social life, any jabs or jokes about a person not being able to get a date (directed at the person you're talking to), jokingly saying to the person you're talking to that he/she needs to get a life, etc.

These are basically things that people in general are sensitive about. Jokes and humor usually have to do with surprise or reversal of what is expected or saying things that are so silly and exaggerated that they have to be taken as playful. People are normally sensitive about personal things like their love life, their sex life, whether or not they are likeable or if they have friends or a fun social life. These statements, even said jokingly, lack imagination and wit and are usually very hard to take as something funny. They're usually un-funny, and if you get a laugh, it will be simply a laugh to save face and not a genuine laugh at what you said.

Joking is fine, just make sure you use humor as something you can both enjoy and not as something that makes the other person feel bad.

About interested women

"The very next day she texts me to go to another study session with her. I declined because I didn't feel like it. An hour later she texts me again to go to an event with her in the centre that same night. At this point I realized that she was very much interested in me, inviting me out to 2 different things in one day."

If a woman is showing lots of interest and you can't join her after she's made 2 invitations, that's ok. Just make sure that you give her a counter-offer. It can be vague. It doesn't have to be specific. Let's say she invites you to an event. "Hey Fly. I'm going to such and such event. Would you like to go with me?" "I can't make it for the event but thanks for asking. Maybe we can get together over the weekend. I'm just really busy/ have plans for the next few days. But I'll get back in touch with you and we can do something another time.".

You make a counter-offer for a few reasons. First, she won't feel like she's being rejected and like you don't like her. Second, that you genuinely enjoy spending time with her and are open to getting together at another time. Third, your friendly demeanor and counter-offer tells her it's ok to invite you out some other time. She's invited you, you reciprocated by being friendly and open to get together at some future time, and that keeps her from becoming discouraged. She feels like she's still welcome and that you're open to spending time with her. So she will likely invite you out again in the future.

At this point, right now, it's alright if you invite her in a few days to do something with you. The idea is to make it a mutual thing instead of one-sided. Anyway, good job. You're getting interest and you're recognizing more of the signals of high interest. Keep it up!

Okay, I see what you mean by offensive jokes. I'm notorious on those. I say things like that just kidding, but sometimes joking around about something means that you were actually thinking it in your mind. But, I wasn't trying to be a douche or nothing. :l I actually made an approach recently and I pretty much down-talked her style of clothing and she got pretty upset with me. She didn't openly express her anger, but her voice got very stern. I backed off when I realized that. :woo:

The girl that was into me, I am not exactly into her... She's cool, but she is super girly-girl (this does NOT mean feminine) and she would probably piss me off, time provided. I probably led her on and she will hate me when she realizes that I actually don't want anything serious.

But onto my latest approach
So I was walking back to the apartment and I decided to walk through the centre, saw this girl sitting in the chair, just chillin', looking bored. I sat across from her and acted like I was going through my phone. I looked up and asked her:

FBN: Hey, can I ask you a question? Do you think it is okay to wear your halloween costume the weekend AFTER halloween?
girl: Yeah, I am going to
FBN: Really? What were you?
girl: *I don't remember*
FBN: Cool, where did you go to?
girl: [Insert club name]
FBN: Nice, do you go out a lot?
girl: Well kind of, not really. There was a time I went out 4 weeks in a row and there's been times where I was a homebody.
FBN: Hah, same here, but it's been kind of dry for me lately. You're cool, what's your name?
girl: *Let's just call her "DY"*

(We continue to talk about classes, strict parents, this and that, then she brought up dancing)

FBN: You don't know how to dance!? Here stand up.
DY: Okay

(So in the middle of the centre, I take both of her hands and guide her steps for about 30 secs to a minute. I then ended it with a spin)

FBN: And it's that simple!
DY: That's awesome! haha
FBN: I'd hate to keep you from class, but it would be great to talk to you again some time. Lemme get your number.
DY: Okay, sure xxxxxxxxx
FBN: Cool, I'll shoot you a text so you'll have my number too.
DY: Okay, I am probably going out this weekend, I could invite you.
FBN: That's what's up, I'll see you later then. *I go in for the hug, but she GOES FOR THE UNDERHOOK*

(I stop her mid-hug and she was like "haha, awkward!" and I was like "no no, I made a vow to always go underhook!" So we hugged and I positioned my arm in the small of her back and held her close for a good extra second)

~~~

It looks like she was giving me short answers by reading the text alone, but she was locking eyes with me and giving me her full attention which is always a sign of interest/respect.
She seemed very interested in me, I feel pretty confident that this will turn into something concrete. I used to feel pressured into getting a girl's number, but what's the point if she is just going to flake or not reply? To anyone reading, I don't ever number close unless I know she is feeling me. No point in getting risky numbers. I'm not going to text her until friday, I don't want to annoy the hell out of her by trying to "increase" her IL by constantly texting her.

Lessons Learned

• Show your interest the moment you meet her, not through texts.
• Seriously, show your interest the moment you meet her. It's sad when I see guys ask a girl for her number when they said less than 5 words to her before that. You really think women are THAT easy? Refer to this analogy:
  

  BeginningDJ said:

  You wanna buy it?
  What is it?
  So do you wanna buy it?

  Click to expand...

• Use the kino! When she got up to dance with me, she shown no sign of hesitation. A great way to filter out the interested from the non.

"Hi, you're cute. Why don't you give me your number?"
Come on, show more personality than that.

Okay so on Thursday, DY texted me confirming that I wanted to go out Friday. I said "why not?" So Friday rolled around and I posted a thread for help on how I should play the night out. The thread stretched out on more things than that, but that's not the focus of this update.

Halloween Redux: Part one

So when she called me, we agreed to meet up near a restaurant and when I got there, it was a group of about 7 girls and 2 guys (They were ALL already drunk). I didn't know anybody there except DY. She complimented my costume and said she needed to use the restroom (didn't get the chance to hug). So I'm with a group of strangers and I need to climb out of the stranger-zone into the he's-alright-zone. I'm chatting up some of the girls asking them how they knew DY and talked to the guys about the place we're heading to. Small talk, didn't really stand out much.

We grouped back up and started walking over. I'm walking beside DY, but her friends keep talking/joking with her so I felt it would be awkward to just throw my arm around her without preemptive talking. I tease her about her jacket, pinching around her arm and she starts teasing back at my cape, small stuff. Some guys were walking along and they were actually the hosts of the party we were going to. They said that they weren't holding the party today, but tomorrow. We got bummed out, but then we went into a random person's party (really sketchy).

We walk in and there are people screaming and yelling at each other. Some guys who looked like they were gang members were talking sh!t to one another and they started swinging fists. :box: People broke them up and one dude in a drunken rage actually punched a hole in the wall right next to me. :nervous: But, ya know... DY was watching them with a look of shock mixed with arousal. I then remembered that women are attracted to aggressive men on a primal level... but I was not going to jump into that and risk getting my ass whooped by 5-6 dudes. This is what I get for going to parties with strangers.

We got out and I'm joking about how can kids still be gangsters in college. I was still thinking about how she was watching them and then I looked at her hat which said "Let's get naked" and how open she was to jumping into a strangers party. Slowly my brain started to put together that this chick probably gets off to the loud alpha male guy, danger, and the likes. I was like "That was quite a show for you, huh?" and she was like "OMG THAT WAS SO SCARY THEY WERE ALL FIGHTING, THAT WAS CRAZY!!" She sure sounded entertained though. Even while walking there were some drunk guys yelling over at our group (I remind you that we were 7 girls 3 guys) that we should come with them and "He is not worth it" This whole night was starting to feel like a bunch of drunk guys trying to muscle me out of my chances. The girls walked by them, but still ate up everything they were throwing at them, smiling and laughing to their jokes.

At this point, we gave up on parties and DY said that her and the girls were just going to go back to the dorm and watch a movie and she will call me back out tomorrow. She apologized for wasting my night (she didn't know I had another place to go to) and we hugged and parted.

~~~

Now if I had not met up with her that night and got "out-alpha'd". I would be pretty confident that she would still invite me out for Saturday. But, since I was cool and laid-back, I probably didn't "entertain" her as much as the drunk guys did. So now I have reasonable doubt.

Writing up part two now...

Halloween Redux: Part Two (Sorry for the lateness, but I reached my 10 post count limit)

So I start walking over to my friend's place which was a good 20 minute walk, but I didn't mind. I get there and the place had a good amount of people partying, there was a strobe light going off, my friends offering me free drinks, b!tches in police officier uniforms and fairy costumes dancing. It was the place to be. I start joking around with my guys and drinking some brew. So I was near the dance floor (not really in it) bobbing my head to the music and this chick taps me on the arm and asks for my name. I told her and she told me hers is *Let's call her SU, idk LOL* and she told me that she is super drunk. She then introduces me to her (rather overweight) friend and her gay friends. I'm all friendly with them, shaking their hand and whatnot and when they leave she hugs me and says that she thinks I'm a cool guy. When we stopped hugging, her arm was still around my back, so I knew what was up.

I'm just like, "Let's dance, you know this song?" and we start dancing and talking about how much she loves music and blah blah blah. She turns around and pushes/falls on me against the wall and I am teasing her about being the wasted chick at the party and she starts cracking up and sliding down me. (wtf?) We continue dancing and I slide my hand down her leg and she pushed my hand away saying "I'm a good girl, I don't do any of that stuff" while her vag is pretty much sitting on my thigh. I say "That's cool, all we're doing is just dancing" She stops and tells me that she is going to talk to her friend and I could chase her if I wanted to. I told her that I got friends to talk to too, and I will find her in due time. She's like "hurry back".

I'm talking to my friends and their all like "Maan, f**k you FBN, you're here for only 5 minutes and you got some chick all over you. LOL JK" After some chilling I go back into the hallway and see SU. She's with her friend and SU makes fun of my cape and grabs it by the sides. I grab her sides and we sort of push/fall into the wall again, lol. Her friend was like "She doesn't like dancing" and I was like "You never know, go out there and enjoy yourself" giving her the "go on" motion with my hand. When she leaves, SU starts sliding her hands up my hoodie and pressing her face into mine saying that "I feel so good underneath" and I was like "You feel good yourself babe" sliding my hand onto her ass and squeezing. I go in like I'm going to make out with her and then turn my lips away and she moans for it. I tease a couple more times like that and then went in for it. She used a lot of tougue just the way I like it and her breath was of the spearmint gum she was chewing on, lol.

We're going for about 5 minutes and she starts saying she's going to leave and I should come with her. I immediately started to think of ditching my friends to go screw some chick. I told her that I had to stay, but I'll take her number down. She gave me it and then started to leave. I'm not sure if it was because of my friend or the fact that she took little to no effort to bag that turned me off, but I am leaning towards the effort part. If she had not rushed to leave with me, I might have ended up effing her after sticking around the party a little longer.

Bad news: I didn't eff her.
Good news: I could have if I made the firm decision to.

~~~

After she left, I went into the backyard to chill and this girl (drunk) was trying to put on angel wings she found and I joked around with her and put them over her head. She then started talking to me and my guy saying that he looked like her ex, except her ex was a pu**y. I laughed and said he definitely isn't (but he is an afc). I started talking about how cool he was and tough he is, the problem was that he got so embarassed and froze up not saying anything to her. The girl was like "You're just trying to get him laid!" I laughed and then she said I shouldn't be laughing because my costume looked stupid. I then put my hand around her neck into a one-handed choke saying "Don't you dare insult my cape!" and she said "Or else what?" with a smile on her face. I then grabbed and lifted her up and brought her out into the grass. She then took my cape off. (I have no idea how, I thought I tied that thing tight...)

So there at about 1 in the morning, you could see me wresting some red-head in the grass for my cape and the guys there (I didn't know them) start telling me to stop. I bet they were just jealous because they were too scared to make a move like that. She starts doing obvious signs of sex like getting on me in a cowgirl position and jumping up and down in it. I am sneaking in ass grabs and she puts her boobs right in my face, I had to take my glasses off and toss em aside. We wrestled for, no joke, 10 minutes straight until one of my guys came up and said "Dude, just let her win, she's a girl" I then say okay then ragdoll on the floor. She says no fair then lowers herself on top of me and starts biting me cheek. (wtf?) I sneak out her phone out of her pocket and we CONTINUE wrestling against the fence.

She's all whispering in my ear "Gimme back my phone you black f**ker" "You're such a c*nt f**ker" LOL! I told her to coax me. I put my hand on her back and pull her in and we start making out. It was horrible, she bit my lips together (HARD) and hardly even opened her mouth. I'm about to give her phone back and she was about to bite my finger. I pulled her by the hair and said "You better not bite my f**kin finger" She promised she wouldn't. She puts her head down on my hands and starts sucking on my thumb, then she rips her phone out my hands and says "Thank you!" and she leaves out.

All I can say is wow. I'm not even sure if I could have effed her that night, but I was too taken aback by what just happened.

~~~

My guys invited me to a drinking game and it was cool, chill. DY texted me saying that she didn't find a party, 99% sure that was bs. My friend asked me how could I make out with 2 girls in 1 night and not take one home. I just might be scared of taking that next step, I had a clear shot and didn't take it. I have to not doubt myself in taking that next rung on the escalation ladder.

Hey Fly,

Good job! And don't worry. If a woman is slightly intoxicated, I'll have sex with her but if she is sloppy drunk I won't. Sloppy drunk chicks turn me off in the moment but I'd probably do what you did and get the number so I could see her when she's not sloppy drunk.

Basically, a woman who is just feeling good from having a drink or two is fine. When her speech is slurred, not only is it unattractive, but for me personally, it's an ethics issue and I'd choose to pass it up. I think you did two good things. You enjoyed her advances and moved things forward AS FAR AS YOUR PERSONAL CODE OF CONDUCT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO IN THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION.

The most important thing above all else is to be the man you want to be and never violate your code of conduct just to have sex. Never go against your sense of right and wrong just for the temporary pleasure of sex. This means you never fool around with a friend's woman because you don't betray your friends. You never have sex with a woman whose judgement is severely impaired by a mind-altering drug or by extremely high levels of alcohol.

"My friend asked me how could I make out with 2 girls in 1 night and not take one home."

Do not worry about statements like this. Just say you were having fun and not worried about it. Just never violate your behavioral standards to satisfy your friends. he was probably saying it in amazement because he isn't getting much action. No worries though. Never be cruel and rub it in his face. Just ignore comments like these and reply with humor or in a normal way like it's no big deal.

Something stood out that I wanted to mention. Sometimes women will do through the clothing what they would like to do with their clothes off. Example: Her making out with you and straddling on top of you. Sometimes when making out, they will get into a sexual position and grind on you through the clothing. Just continue getting her worked up and let HER be the one to either start taking clothes off or to beg you to have sex.

She'll either start taking your clothing off or her own clothing or say something like "I want you to f*ck me RIGHT NOW!!". THERE IS NO RESISTANCE TO THIS BECAUSE SHE IS THE ONE DOING IT. SHE IS THE ONE REMOVING CLOTHING. SHE IS BEGGING FOR YOU TO HAVE SEX WITH HER.

Women will use innocent excuses to actually get you alone with her. Let's say you meet a woman and you both do nothing more than hold hands. Hand holding is a romantic thing people do. If she says "You should come over to watch a movie.", yes she wants to watch a movie, but the movie is also an excuse to get you there alone with her.

Now, if it's just a study friend from school and she says, "You should come over so we can work on this project together.", then that's just necessity. There's no way to tell if she likes you if she's just being friendly and you have to work on a project together. Now if that same study friend has been winking at you a lot and asking you if you have a girlfriend, yeah, you might be there to study out of necessity, but she probably wouldn't mind if something happened between you both while alone studying.

Maybe you notice at some point during your studying that she gradually gets closer. And then maybe she's sitting next to you and her knee or thigh is touching yours for minutes at a time. It could be something as innocent as the tip of her knee against your thigh, resting there for many minutes. I've never been in a situation where it was necessary for my leg to touch another person's leg unless you were sitting in a very crowded car and everyone was crammed in there.

If you have all of the room in the world and she's sitting there with the tip of her knee lightly touching your thigh and keeps it there, she's doing it on purpose. Anyway, just mentioned that for everyone's benefit and also, if you're ever having trouble telling the difference between a woman just being friendly and a woman actually liking you. It's all context related. This is why I STRESS that men look for multiple signals.

I'm only mentioning subtleties because you are getting the hang of the more obvious signs. You're going to run into the really blatant signs and also more subtle behaviors from the same woman. A woman who was making out with you 3 days ago might agree to go out with you. When you meet, her hands might not be all over you at first, but you might sit next to each other in a booth and she makes it a point to scoot close enough to you for her thigh to touch yours slightly.

Yes, pay attention and take advantage of the larger behaviors. Also notice the subtleties. If you go somewhere and her thigh is resting next to yours, touching it, and there's lots of touch during the conversation and she says "You should come over to my place to watch TV. Or to see my collection of......". Yeah, she might want to watch TV, but she's trying to get you alone too because she wants some action.

Thanks for the response, it was in my hands, I know. Sad part is, I don't get invited to parties that often, so even though night game is much better for me, I don't get that chance very often. I've resorted back to some daygame while keeping in mind that I would have to check for IOIs. I don't have much time to elaborate now, so I'll just post my observation.

Observation
There is a chronic problem I keep encountering is women who show signs of interest, but they fail to reply to my texts. One thing that I have found in common with all these cases were that they all did not want kino. They would give me strong eye contact, hold the conversation well, but as soon as it came to touch they would move away or if I ask for their hand, they would be like "Why?" or "Sorry, I don't know you." Even if they would be absolutely cool with talking to me, if there was a problem with kino, she is not going to even reply to my texts. I figured, if she actually likes me, she would have no problem with me touching her.

So I am going to incorporate this: If the girl has a problem with kino, I will not even ask for her number.

I just thought I would share that.

I am very glad you stated some things you observed. Why? Because the more information I have, the more I can fine-tune my responses to help you understand more clearly what I'm trying to explain. I personally accept the flaw as being a flaw in my explanation, either by assuming you already understand something I haven't stated or by omitting something important.

NOW, I understand where you're making a mistake. And the mistake is partially my fault because of a failure to clarify some things. No worries though. Life is a learning experience so we'll chalk it up to a necessary lesson that only experience and nothing else can teach you.

The bitter pill of bad experience can have a sweet aftertaste once that experience teaches us repeatedly what to avoid and what to move towards. The PAIN becomes our greatest teacher when all else fails and pushes us in a better direction. A direction where we avoid pain and move towards pleasure. Pain is a strong reminder. We never forget our struggles and once we overcome them, we understand that the path that leads towards pain is often the wrong path.

******Now on to some quotes:
There is a chronic problem I keep encountering is women who show signs of interest, but they fail to reply to my texts. One thing that I have found in common with all these cases were that they all did not want kino.

Lesson number one here: I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVEN REMOTELY IMPLIED THAT JUST BECAUSE A WOMAN SMILES AT YOU AND IS FRIENDLY, SHE MUST BE INTERESTED IN YOU SEXUALLY.

If you reread my replies, and I know there are many, I repeated over and over and over and over that there are numerous signals that she will repeat. That smiling and conversation alone do not = interest. You need to look for at least half a dozen signals. And no, just smiling and conversation doesn't count.

These are not isolated signals. One stacks on top of the other and on top of the other. Think of it like a stack of weights. She smiles (that alone means nothing). Now she begins stroking her necklace while maintaining eye contact. Now she invades your space and starts touching you a lot. You touch her and she enjoys it and smiles ..... Now she scoots next to you and gently rests her shoulder against you. I listed about half a dozen signals. The signals STACK ON TOP OF EACH OTHER. If you only have one or two, that's nothing.

Repeat of quote:
One thing that I have found in common with all these cases were that they all did not want kino.

If a woman does not like being touched by you or doesn't like touching you, this is a SYMPTOM of low interest. What you've been doing is taking one or two signs of politeness and possibly just regular friendship behavior, and have given these polite, friendly behaviors too much meaning. At the same time, you've completely ignored the signals of DISINTEREST.

I should have listed these. If a woman is talking with you and is friendly, then acts like she doesn't like friendly touch during conversation, it is a signal of disinterest. If she leans away when you enter her space, it's a signal of disinterest. If they say "Sorry, I don't know you." It's a signal of disinterest. If you ask for her hand and she says "Why?"... it's a signal of disinterest.

This is why they don't reply back to you. If you'd payed closer attention and not ignored their signals of disinterest then you would have realized that she is a woman with low interest and by default you would WEED HER OUT by not asking for her number. This is why I told you, with this approach, you very rarely face rejections and very rarely have women who cancel dates at the last minute.

Why? You don't bother with women who have displayed signals of low interest. You don't waste your time trying to pursue a one-sided romance. You DON'T ask for the number. You DON'T invite her to get together. You DON'T waste your energy or time. Instead you MOVE ON. We are not trying to sell ourselves to anyone. We are not going to beg for attention from uninterested women because we are NOT INTERESTED in them.

I'm going to quote a very good idea you had in your last reply......

So I am going to incorporate this: If the girl has a problem with kino, I will not even ask for her number.

A woman who likes you will find excuses to touch you and enjoys being close to you. There are 2 possibilities. She either had low interest to begin with or your touch is either too aggressive too soon or comes across as unnatural. This can cause a woman with initial interest to lose interest. If you're having a little bit of problems with conversational touch, I'd suggest looking up videos of Darren Brown on youtube and notice how he uses conversational touch in a non-threatening way with pretty much everyone. I'm only mentioning this because you can pretty much pick any of the short videos on youtube and you'll see good examples. If you want to use less touch than he does, simply notice the quality of the touches and use less repetitions.

Notice the location of the touch during conversation (is it on the shoulder or arm?). Notice the proximity of the people. How close are they standing when a conversational touch is applied? Is the touch light or heavy? Firm or soft? Is the hand of the person applying the conversational touch rigid or relaxed? Is he looking at his hands or at the person when he touches his/her shoulder? Does the touch seem like a natural part of the conversation or does it seem unnatural and out of place?