R
Rubato
Guest
I've seen this topic brought up on the boards here a number of times but there's an angle that I haven't seen discussed.
I realize the prevailing logic here is that a guy should never ever ask a girl to be exclusive with him because he is in effect showing his hand and verbally demonstrating that he places value in her sufficient to want to take her off of the sexual market place. As men, we are supposed to view ourselves and believe that we are The Great Catch, and as Pook said, why would The Great Catch ever voluntarily fly himself in to a cage?
That's a good point and I respect it and agree with it as far as for what it stands for. The question I'm posing is are we, as men, looking to enter in to some sort of power brokerage struggle with a woman or do we actually want a relationship? Before that sentence freaks you out, understand that I fully realize every relationship is at least somewhat about power and someone is going to maintain the locus of that power. But the way that the guys on here talk, it seems to me like that locus of power is more important to them than the girl they're actually in the relationship with.
I have a very good relationship with my dad and legitimately think he's a very "alpha" guy. He grew up in destitute poverty, pulled himself up by the bootstraps in a very unsafe and poor city, got straight A's in school while working what was probably full time to help generate money for his family to eat, and became the only one of the 5 children his mother had to get a college education. He got his undergrad degree in 3 years with a 4.0 gpa and got accepted to every medical school he applied to. He worked(s) very diligently in his life and in his love. Throughout all of this and from listening to him talk, it sounds like he had developed a oneitis relationship early on and never made the mistake again. He was never exposed to game but somehow figured out how stupid these AFC mistakes are, probably because he had to as a necessity of life. When I tell him about the stuff Pook wrote about or the opinions on this board, he looks at me funny and can't figure out why I haven't already come to these conclusions myself. No one had to tell him he is The Great Catch. No one had to tell him that his work, college, and life came before women. No one had to lecture him on his priorities, tell him to be dominant, masculine, ect. I honestly think he learned as a necessity of life and this may sound bizarre to some of you, but after considering all of this, I'm rather envious of him that he got to grow up the way he did and I've been "privileged" to grow up in a household without much want or need of anything. It was the struggle that made him that man and the lack of struggle that has caused me, paradoxically enough, to struggle.
I say all that as an assertion that my dad, quite literally, is the man and has the most successful marriage I've ever seen in my life. My mom and dad have been married 26 years now and are the model couple to everyone they know. They still look at each other with the eyes of new love. It's obviously not some continuous replay of the scene from Aladdin where they sing the song "A Whole New World", they have their issues. But it is superbly obvious that they both deeply deeply care for and love each other, even after 26 years. I think most of that has to do with the fact that like I said, my dad is the man.
The biggest issue he's ever had with the advice I've read about on this website is the stance people take towards the idea of exclusivity. He's a sincerely religious man, so he doesn't swear, but if he did, he'd call it horsesh*t.
I've been seeing a girl for over a month now that I'm starting to really like... not like because I feel like she completes my life or anything bogus like that, but I like who she is. We'll be going on date # 11 or 12 this Wed. Since I'm a very analytical guy, the natural thing for me to start thinking about is what I'm doing with this girl, so I talked to my dad about it this weekend. The first thing he asked me was "Do you like her?" And I said I did. He didn't ask if she liked me and told me he didn't for 2 reasons: 1st, he is like Pook and AD in the sense that he believes a girl would not go out with me 11 times within the course of 5 weeks if she wasn't interested. And second, his rhetorical response was "Why wouldn't she like you?" That's the frame he operates from and legit believes it, about himself and about his kids. Then he asked me why I liked her. And I told him.
His advice to me was to continue to get to know how and things will logically work themselves out. He said if I continue to get to know her, her family, and her friends, observe her behavior, and still like her and don't see a bunch of warning signs or red flags - and this is where his advice deviates from what I see here - that I should define the relationship.
He gave me a couple of reasons for this. First, he said for all my talk of "being alpha" and being in control, what's the first thing that a man does? He takes what he wants. The corollary to what you guys say about desiring a woman so much you want her p*ssy off the sexual market place is that you're assertive and dominant enough to tell the woman she's off limits to other guys. I've never been able to wrap my mind around the passivity inherent in the concept of being a dominant alpha male and not being able to define the romantic relationships you're in.
Second, to those of you who are married or in some sort of serially long term monogamous relationship, I've read a lot about what you say they're like. And when I contrast that against what my dad has, I don't want what you guys have. It's a very conditional setup, based predominantly on the acquisition of relational power and capital. There doesn't seem to be an unrelenting commitment to any sort of higher principle (ie, marriage or each other) and ultimately seems to be some sort of contrived setup attempting to minimize personal emotive risk and liability as much as possible.
My dad would say that when a man cares for a woman and she is worth caring for, at some point he has to make himself vulnerable to her, just as much as she does to him.
Now obviously, this sort of thing isn't going to work with all girls. You can take some overly superficial HB9+ who lives life strictly from a position of vanity, selfcenteredness, and instant gratification. The sort of person always pursuing after her hypergamy, whether you are it or not.
And my dad would agree that in that case you guys are right. But he also says that's not the sort of girl I'm looking for, and he's right. It is true that among the masses of women out there, most of them are worse than better. Most of them are untrustworthy in the long term and fit in to the negative archetypal categories that this site has done a pretty good job of describing, at least in general.
I honestly really don't think all women are like that. Just like all men are not untrustworthy in a relationship, not all women are either. I believe there is a much larger number of untrustworthy women, but despite that, I really believe that are some good women out there who do not fit the mold this site as cast for the "typical woman".
And that's what I'm looking for.
I'd like to get people's thoughts on this. I don't agree with everything my dad says, but I've found in life that he's almost always right. What do you think?
I realize the prevailing logic here is that a guy should never ever ask a girl to be exclusive with him because he is in effect showing his hand and verbally demonstrating that he places value in her sufficient to want to take her off of the sexual market place. As men, we are supposed to view ourselves and believe that we are The Great Catch, and as Pook said, why would The Great Catch ever voluntarily fly himself in to a cage?
That's a good point and I respect it and agree with it as far as for what it stands for. The question I'm posing is are we, as men, looking to enter in to some sort of power brokerage struggle with a woman or do we actually want a relationship? Before that sentence freaks you out, understand that I fully realize every relationship is at least somewhat about power and someone is going to maintain the locus of that power. But the way that the guys on here talk, it seems to me like that locus of power is more important to them than the girl they're actually in the relationship with.
I have a very good relationship with my dad and legitimately think he's a very "alpha" guy. He grew up in destitute poverty, pulled himself up by the bootstraps in a very unsafe and poor city, got straight A's in school while working what was probably full time to help generate money for his family to eat, and became the only one of the 5 children his mother had to get a college education. He got his undergrad degree in 3 years with a 4.0 gpa and got accepted to every medical school he applied to. He worked(s) very diligently in his life and in his love. Throughout all of this and from listening to him talk, it sounds like he had developed a oneitis relationship early on and never made the mistake again. He was never exposed to game but somehow figured out how stupid these AFC mistakes are, probably because he had to as a necessity of life. When I tell him about the stuff Pook wrote about or the opinions on this board, he looks at me funny and can't figure out why I haven't already come to these conclusions myself. No one had to tell him he is The Great Catch. No one had to tell him that his work, college, and life came before women. No one had to lecture him on his priorities, tell him to be dominant, masculine, ect. I honestly think he learned as a necessity of life and this may sound bizarre to some of you, but after considering all of this, I'm rather envious of him that he got to grow up the way he did and I've been "privileged" to grow up in a household without much want or need of anything. It was the struggle that made him that man and the lack of struggle that has caused me, paradoxically enough, to struggle.
I say all that as an assertion that my dad, quite literally, is the man and has the most successful marriage I've ever seen in my life. My mom and dad have been married 26 years now and are the model couple to everyone they know. They still look at each other with the eyes of new love. It's obviously not some continuous replay of the scene from Aladdin where they sing the song "A Whole New World", they have their issues. But it is superbly obvious that they both deeply deeply care for and love each other, even after 26 years. I think most of that has to do with the fact that like I said, my dad is the man.
The biggest issue he's ever had with the advice I've read about on this website is the stance people take towards the idea of exclusivity. He's a sincerely religious man, so he doesn't swear, but if he did, he'd call it horsesh*t.
I've been seeing a girl for over a month now that I'm starting to really like... not like because I feel like she completes my life or anything bogus like that, but I like who she is. We'll be going on date # 11 or 12 this Wed. Since I'm a very analytical guy, the natural thing for me to start thinking about is what I'm doing with this girl, so I talked to my dad about it this weekend. The first thing he asked me was "Do you like her?" And I said I did. He didn't ask if she liked me and told me he didn't for 2 reasons: 1st, he is like Pook and AD in the sense that he believes a girl would not go out with me 11 times within the course of 5 weeks if she wasn't interested. And second, his rhetorical response was "Why wouldn't she like you?" That's the frame he operates from and legit believes it, about himself and about his kids. Then he asked me why I liked her. And I told him.
His advice to me was to continue to get to know how and things will logically work themselves out. He said if I continue to get to know her, her family, and her friends, observe her behavior, and still like her and don't see a bunch of warning signs or red flags - and this is where his advice deviates from what I see here - that I should define the relationship.
He gave me a couple of reasons for this. First, he said for all my talk of "being alpha" and being in control, what's the first thing that a man does? He takes what he wants. The corollary to what you guys say about desiring a woman so much you want her p*ssy off the sexual market place is that you're assertive and dominant enough to tell the woman she's off limits to other guys. I've never been able to wrap my mind around the passivity inherent in the concept of being a dominant alpha male and not being able to define the romantic relationships you're in.
Second, to those of you who are married or in some sort of serially long term monogamous relationship, I've read a lot about what you say they're like. And when I contrast that against what my dad has, I don't want what you guys have. It's a very conditional setup, based predominantly on the acquisition of relational power and capital. There doesn't seem to be an unrelenting commitment to any sort of higher principle (ie, marriage or each other) and ultimately seems to be some sort of contrived setup attempting to minimize personal emotive risk and liability as much as possible.
My dad would say that when a man cares for a woman and she is worth caring for, at some point he has to make himself vulnerable to her, just as much as she does to him.
Now obviously, this sort of thing isn't going to work with all girls. You can take some overly superficial HB9+ who lives life strictly from a position of vanity, selfcenteredness, and instant gratification. The sort of person always pursuing after her hypergamy, whether you are it or not.
And my dad would agree that in that case you guys are right. But he also says that's not the sort of girl I'm looking for, and he's right. It is true that among the masses of women out there, most of them are worse than better. Most of them are untrustworthy in the long term and fit in to the negative archetypal categories that this site has done a pretty good job of describing, at least in general.
I honestly really don't think all women are like that. Just like all men are not untrustworthy in a relationship, not all women are either. I believe there is a much larger number of untrustworthy women, but despite that, I really believe that are some good women out there who do not fit the mold this site as cast for the "typical woman".
And that's what I'm looking for.
I'd like to get people's thoughts on this. I don't agree with everything my dad says, but I've found in life that he's almost always right. What do you think?
