Can I save my LTR?

I dont think desirable women will ALWAYS try to branch swing. it's how they perceive you and how valuable they THINK you are. That's a very complicated formula that makes up interest level.

First I'll address the points you added, along with the ones I had originally posted

-She started to seem "distanced."
-She had been in contact with her ex, and had some sort of unresolved issues.
-The sex and affection was "drying up."
-She suggested breaking up to start with.

All of these - with the exception of the first - could probably have been avoided entirely if the OP had taken a different course of action from the start. By attempting to "get things back to how they were", "make sure everything was ok", and pressing to "find out what was wrong with the RELATIONSHIP" all he did was push her away. Pressing and pressing and pressing the matter as he did, not only pushes her away emotionally (and likely physically) it KILLS her attraction for him. This is needy, insecure behavior! THIS needy behavior is likely what started the branch swinging (if you're going to assume, with 100% certainty, that is what was going on here).

The girl had (as the OP pointed out) a LOT of stress in her life at the time. How does adding more stress to the situation help his cause? Doing this is so completely counter-productive! It is ok to talk about the relationship...but there is a fine line from discussion to simply adding a huge amount of stress to the girl's life.

By pressing the matter of "fixing the relationship" as hard as he did, he made HIMSELF an extra source of stress for her. How is she supposed to deal with that stress? How do human beings deal with stress? How do YOU deal with stress? MOST of us try to get RID of stress in our lives. The easiest ways to do that are either A) Ignore it (distancing her self from him/the relationship emotionally and physically) or B) Simply cutting the stress out completely (suggesting the breakup).

If he's always trying to "figure out whats wrong" and "fix things" it gets to a point where if she even THINKS of him/the relationship all she gets is more stress. And it is a very slippery slope...once you've added yourself as an extra source of stress, that is going to be in the back of her mind all the time and she will naturally try to relieve herself of that stress. She's not about to drop out of med school because it stresses her out, BUT she may reconsider her relationship with her needy boyfriend who creates all kinds of extra stress in her life.

Nobody is perfect, and NOBODY has all their sh!t together; we are all human. If the OP had given her a bit of extra space (read: NOT putting all kinds of pressure on her about their damn relationship), remained confident in himself/their relationship, and been there for her when he needed to be (IN THE CAPACITY HE NEEDED TO BE) things would likely have played out much differently. Sometimes people need space...and when someone needs space smothering them with all kinds of extra crap does not help your cause.

With all the stress going on in her life, what did she need from him? She needed him to be the confident, secure, fun, lovable, not-adding-extra-stress-to-her-life, guy that she got into the relationship with in the first place! Give her some breathing room, but be there as a "relief" from all the other crap when she needs. This is not to say, you should be at her beck and call doing w/e she wants and letting her walk all over you. Relationships are work. They require effort/understanding from both parties involved. There is GIVE and PULL in a relationship. She, at this point in her life, needed you to GIVE a little (read: breathing room). Sometimes if you want things to work out you need to give a little more than you're getting at that particular time; THIS is how successful relationships work. When you see/talk to her, it should be fun/stress-free/relief from the rest of her life that she can ENJOY with you! And vice versa! PLEASE DONT CONFUSE THIS "RELATIONSHIP" WITH DATING A GIRL YOU'RE BANGING...OBVIOUSLY THE SAME RULES/CONCEPTS DO NOT APPLY TO BOTH!

I am not saying he should "bury his head in the sand and hope things get back to the way they were." There are COUNTLESS small, effective ways to can remain true to yourself and what you need out of the relationship while remaining respectful to her and what she needs. THIS point I agree with you Danger. Sticking your head in the sand and waiting for things to get better gets you nowhere!

I will say I COMPLETELY dissagree with your idea of "maintaining dignity, self-respect, and confidence" by "getting out (i.e. jumping to conclusions and breaking up with her)." THIS is the MOST AFC CRAP I HAVE EVER HEARD! Is your self esteem/respect, dignity, or confidence SO weak and insecure that you need to "dump her before she dumps you???" This is possibly the most ludacris, moronic, immature statement made yet. If you are so worried about "saving face" that you need to resort to these tactics there are CERTAINLY some underlying personal issues you REALLY need to deal with. And I would question your self-respect/esteem, dignity and confidence based soley on this comment.

To the final point I'd like to make is directed towards the comment of "experienced men;" 30-40+ year olds guys. Are you REALLY suggesting it is advisable to take RELATIONSHIP (READ: NOT DATING/PICKING-UP) advice from these 30-40+ year old "experienced men" that (right up to this point in their lives) have NEVER had a SUCCESSFUL/HEALTHY/LASTING relationship? You're 30-40 years old...you're on a PUA site discussing how to pick up, bang, and casually date women. You are NOT in a relationship (read: possibly married) to the woman you're going to spend the REST OF YOUR LIFE with. If you ARE in a relationship with the woman you're going to spend the rest of your life with, and you're on this site...your advice is likely worse than the rest.

Don't get me wrong, there are a LOT of great guys on this site that could be considered "successful with women" (in the very narrow context of picking-up, banging, dating..) that have quite a bit of good advice to offer on the topics of PICKING-UP, BANGING, DATING women. THEY ARE NOT the guys you, nor I, should be seeking advice about RELATIONSHIPS from...because they have failed their entire lives at creating an ACTUAL lasting/healhy relationship. THIS IS A PUA SITE! You DO NOT come here to find information for RELATIONSHIPS...as the OP just found out the hard way. Picking up, banging, and dating women are one thing...but building a healthy/lasting relationship is an ENTIRELY different beast; one 99% of the posters on this forum have 0 credibility to discuss/give advice.

Unfortunately, this relationship COULD have been saved. The way the OP initially went about dealing with the percieved problem was not a good start. Coming to this site seeking/recieving/putting to use advice from people that have next to no idea what they're talking about only served to make things far worse. And we all see what the end result was.

And in the event that you're reading this thinking "this 'kid' has no idea what he's talking about...I've been around the block, I've been in relationships, I know what I'm talking about/doing" STOP! YOU HAVE BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL IN CREATING A HEALTHY/LASTING RELATIONSHIP YOUR ENTIRE LIFE! You are NOT some all-knowing, relationship expert (nor am I) that should be giving ANYBODY advice when it comes to creating said healthy/lasting relationships!

MY POINT REMAINS! THE OP SHOULD NEVER HAVE COME TO THESE FORUMS SEEKING ADVICE FOR THIS RELATIONSHIP WHICH HE CLEARLY CARED DEEPLY ABOUT! WE CAN ALL SEE THE REPERCUSSIONS OF DOING THIS!

First of all, why is this thread 10 pages long? Just by reading the OP you can clearly see what this chick was trying to do. It is so obvious. Clear as day. If you know anything about women, and how they operate, you could clearly see this from the start. This is basic 101 relationship stuff going on here. I see pages and pages of arguments, and some with very poor advice I might add, when all you have to do is see it for what it really is. Some guys just don't understand women, don't have any experience, and they try to claim to be an expert. I read about 3 pages and skimmed the rest, but I'm going to tell it like it is and how it went down.

Things were going along in this relationship and this chick started to lose what interest she had in him. She was on the verge of dumping him, but just wanted to play it out for as long as she could, play the victim card, not to mention, her not being the bad guy in this relationship. She knew what she was doing the entire time.

So, she distances herself from him, has less sex, acts different, in hopes he confronts her about it, so she can have "the talk" with him, so she can bring up "issues" so she can eventually dump him. He confronts her about it, and what chicks like this will do, is make an excuse for thier behavior, she tells him and blames "school pressure" for the problem. He now knows something is wrong in the relationship and she eluded to it. Then, like what some chicks will do that want to get out of a relationship for whatever reason, but are afraid to just break it off or bring it up, she stages a fight, and of course lays all the blame on to him for her problems. Telling him that he is at fault for all her problems which is total B.S. by the way. Then, what like some guys will do after an episode like this, he goes AFC, and wants to work through a relationship that she obviously doesn't want anymore. She wants to dump him but still can't do it, so she waits for another opportunity. Then when she gets it, she starts crying and telling him things "changed" she doesn't want to hurt him, doesn't see a future, telling him he was good to her (note the "was" they always use past tense because in their mind it is over) and to top it off, she blames it on the values and not believing in God which is just a bunch of crap excuses. They were together for what 8 months? That sure didn't bother her then did it? All the trips he took her on and stuff they did, didn't phase her then did it? But it sure does now, when she is looking for a excuse to dump. It's amazing what chicks will come up with and excuses they give to the guys they want to dump.

She was holding the power over him, she was in control. She blamed him, tried to make him look guilty and look like the bad guy. Talked about an ex and the feelings she had, no closure...just a lot of B.S. Then he changed and reversed it on her. He took control like he should of after she wanted to break up with him. He got rid of her and took charge like a man. She tried to guilt trip him and make him feel bad like she was the innocent one for not getting rid of the relationship, which is a joke because she wanted to break up with him. Then when he didn't budge, she freaked out and called and texted him like crazy like a desperate chick does.

He did the right thing by dumping her because she would of done the same to him, and you know damn well if she dumped him, she wouldn't be calling him all the time crying and trying to get back with him like she has been.

Here's my final take on this of what of might really happened....I think she wanted to go back to the ex, she was hooking up with him, and he was stringing her along as just a f*** buddy. She got feelings for him again, lost them for the OP, and thought she could get back with the ex. So she tries to dump the OP to get back with the ex, the OP dumps her, the ex dosn't want her back, so she is screwed and tries to get back with the OP, and now she's freaking out because all is lost.

This relationship was over when SHE decided it was when she lost her feelings and was distant. The OP should of dumped her sooner and not waste time with all the useless drama by trying to work it out and the aftermath of the broken relationship.

49au said:

I'm a long time reader of the forum and have really gained from it. Thanks in advance for any thoughtful replies.

This is a complex problem but I will try to keep this post as short as possible. I've been in an LTR for about 8 months now. I'm 28, she's 27. We dated and slept together for about a month before making things "official".

Not complex....just basic 101 stuff here. how was the sex?

We met online, at the time I was travelling and also seeing other girls so I took things slow. Emailed and talked for about 3 weeks just flirting, playing games, and developing a pretty sweet mental chemistry before even meeting.

The day I met her, I was hooked but was able to keep my cool.

Be careful of getting hooked too soon. BPD chicks are famous for this.

I did begin to phase out my other girls though, with the idea of getting into an LTR with her as long as my initial impressions weren't proven wrong over the next few weeks.

Don't ever do this again until you are official with a girl. You could of saved yourself a lot of heartache and time writing if you would of kept your plates. Yes, you had good times with her, but in the end was it worth it? Seems to me that you rushed into things with her way too fast.

Fast forward - she is a very passionate and emotional girl (Latin), so we have had our share of fights, but overall we've had a great relationship to this point. HUGE emotional, sexual, and mental chemistry. Spent a lot of time together in great environments - Bahamas twice, Vegas, Key West twice, and a couple of other vacations + generally just doing unique, cool things together.

Little rocky it seems but looks like it was fun back then.


A couple months ago I started observing that she was toning down the open affection and her sex drive was slowing down. She didn't really seem detached, just different. I brought it up and she told me that she was under massive pressure/stress due to school (3rd year med) + work + having to make hard decisions about her career and specialty that were going to affect her for the rest of her life. This seemed legit to me, she was in fact working and studying her ass off, so I told her I would be patient and we'd work through it.

Due to the fact she was planning on dumping you and her ex was in the picture.

I was still a little suspicious that there was something deeper going on, but I wanted to see how it would play out.

You saw the warning signs and red flags, and wanted to keep it going and you saw how it played out.



Several days ago we had a fight and she said she wanted to break up because I was putting her under so much pressure. Repeated the same things about work/school/career stressing her out and me bringing up relationship issues on top of it was just too much. I honestly didn't feel like that's what she wanted, so I basically just looked her in the eye and said that we're not breaking up, we're just gonna back it down a notch and get rid of the pressure. That I was going to be even more patient. So we made up.

The old staged fight and blame routine. She was waiting for the moment to break up. If she was into you, still loved you, she wouldn't use a fight as an excuse to break up with you. This was planned.

Last night, I knew something was up so after dinner I made her talk about it. She broke down crying and told me that she loved me but "something" had changed and she was confused, didn't know if she could see a future for us. Her primary reason was that I don't believe in god, she does, and she would want our children to have those "values." I asked her if that was the issue, or if that was only some rationalization she was coming up with for WHY her feelings had changed. She said she wasn't sure.

More excuses from her and she should of been dumped by you right then and there. She clearly doesn't want to be with you and you want to drag it on and have her go on and on. Of course she couldn't tell you the real reason and said she wasn't sure....she wasn't going to say she wanted her ex back and was hooking up with him.


She stayed over, we talked about it a little more this morning. She said the same things. She just kept crying and telling me how good I've been to her, she doesn't want to hurt me, etc. In my experience this could often mean another guy... but I have asked her about this so many times and in so many ways, and I honestly don't think this is the issue. Of course I could be wrong, but I am man enough to admit it to myself if I felt like that was it.

Why do this? Nothing is going to change her mind. In her mind you guys are over, done with, finished, and all the talks in the world won't change her mind. Of course she is going to say the same things to you. Then she talks about you in past tense. You are done...why keep it going? She wants to dump you, and you still keep going through it.

She did say that she knows I'm serious and want to marry her (though I have never proposed or said anything about intending to), and she's scared that things have gotten so serious when she's not sure we have the same "values" (she believes in god and would want our kids to go to church, I don't). This could be BS, but it is also a positive sign that she is viewing me that seriously, maybe this is just a temporary freak out on her part.

Yes it is more B.S. and should be in a book called "Excuses chicks use for dumping their boyfriends."

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BadNews said:

All of these - with the exception of the first - could probably have been avoided entirely if the OP had taken a different course of action from the start. By attempting to "get things back to how they were", "make sure everything was ok", and pressing to "find out what was wrong with the RELATIONSHIP" all he did was push her away. Pressing and pressing and pressing the matter as he did, not only pushes her away emotionally (and likely physically) it KILLS her attraction for him. This is needy, insecure behavior! THIS needy behavior is likely what started the branch swinging (if you're going to assume, with 100% certainty, that is what was going on here).

The relationship was over to begin with because she decided it was long before. She made B.S. excuses to him, she had it all planned out, his confronting helped the situaton move faster but it was over in her mind. Her attraction was gone before this even happened.

The girl had (as the OP pointed out) a LOT of stress in her life at the time. How does adding more stress to the situation help his cause? Doing this is so completely counter-productive! It is ok to talk about the relationship...but there is a fine line from discussion to simply adding a huge amount of stress to the girl's life.

Stress is a excuse. She probably had stress 8 months ago too and it didn't bother her then. It was an excuse to dump.

By pressing the matter of "fixing the relationship" as hard as he did, he made HIMSELF an extra source of stress for her. How is she supposed to deal with that stress? How do human beings deal with stress? How do YOU deal with stress? MOST of us try to get RID of stress in our lives. The easiest ways to do that are either A) Ignore it (distancing her self from him/the relationship emotionally and physically) or B) Simply cutting the stress out completely (suggesting the breakup).

B.S. she was using stress as an excuse and his confronting played into her hands. She knew what she was doing.

Nobody is perfect, and NOBODY has all their sh!t together; we are all human. If the OP had given her a bit of extra space (read: NOT putting all kinds of pressure on her about their damn relationship), remained confident in himself/their relationship, and been there for her when he needed to be (IN THE CAPACITY HE NEEDED TO BE) things would likely have played out much differently. Sometimes people need space...and when someone needs space smothering them with all kinds of extra crap does not help your cause.

He asked her what was up with her behavior one time. She gave stress as an excuse, he played into her hands, because she wanted to dump him anyway, she knew what she was doing. You are wrong again. Why are you defendng her?

I am not saying he should "bury his head in the sand and hope things get back to the way they were." There are COUNTLESS small, effective ways to can remain true to yourself and what you need out of the relationship while remaining respectful to her and what she needs. THIS point I agree with you Danger. Sticking your head in the sand and waiting for things to get better gets you nowhere!

She wanted out of the relationship. Are you that dense? No matter what this guy would of done would of changed her mind if he would of hung on. Her mind was made up. she wanted out. She would of dumped him regardless. It only changed because he dumped her.


I will say I COMPLETELY dissagree with your idea of "maintaining dignity, self-respect, and confidence" by "getting out (i.e. jumping to conclusions and breaking up with her)." THIS is the MOST AFC CRAP I HAVE EVER HEARD! Is your self esteem/respect, dignity, or confidence SO weak and insecure that you need to "dump her before she dumps you???" This is possibly the most ludacris, moronic, immature statement made yet. If you are so worried about "saving face" that you need to resort to these tactics there are CERTAINLY some underlying personal issues you REALLY need to deal with. And I would question your self-respect/esteem, dignity and confidence based soley on this comment.

You should change your id to BadAdvice because that is what you're giving in all of your posts. Such ridiculous nonsense. You are more green with women and relationships than the pears I bought at the grocery store this morning.

So, let me get this straight....dumping a chick who has no more interest in you, a chick who has feelings for an ex after she has been with the OP 8 months, a chick who liked him for all the trips they went on, a chick who was planning to dump the dude from the start, a chick who makes lame excuses about school pressure, him not believing in God, and other B.S. (which never concerned her before until now) a chick who staged a fight to break up with him, a chick who has been with an old ex, blaming the OP for all of her problems....and dumping her before she ultimately insults him by dumping him which she already planned to do is AFC?

Dude are you serious?? You are very green and AFC yourself from what you are saying. What do you want to do?...continue to hang on at any cost? endure abuse and insults from her? having her blame you for all of her problems? try to hold on for dear life for a relsationship she doesn't want anymore, while you miraculously hope it will get better when it never will? Hoping a few days by herself will make it all better? That is very delusional and AFC behavior on your part. Being AFC is being a doormat for this chick and letting her dump him and blame him for her problems. Standing up for yourself and being a man, not taking any crap, and not being made a fool out of is what you should do. If you want to be AFC.....go right ahead and do what you do.



your advice is likely worse than the rest.

we can see that yours is


99% of the posters on this forum have 0 credibility to discuss/give advice.

you're off on that percentage, but if we are going on your percentage, then you fall into the 99% category with your advice you give.


Unfortunately, this relationship COULD have been saved.

Only in the delusional minds of guys like you who want to get trampled on and hang on at any cost. It was over because she planned it and wanted it to be. It was over and he did the right thing.


The way the OP initially went about dealing with the percieved problem was not a good start. Coming to this site seeking/recieving/putting to use advice from people that have next to no idea what they're talking about only served to make things far worse. And we all see what the end result was.

He shouldn't of confronted her that was a mistake, but we all learn from mistakes. He got some good advice on here from me, and others, and you are a poster that has no idea what you're talking about, I agree with you on that.

And in the event that you're reading this thinking "this 'kid' has no idea what he's talking about...I've been around the block, I've been in relationships, I know what I'm talking about/doing" STOP! YOU HAVE BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL IN CREATING A HEALTHY/LASTING RELATIONSHIP YOUR ENTIRE LIFE! You are NOT some all-knowing, relationship expert (nor am I) that should be giving ANYBODY advice when it comes to creating said healthy/lasting relationships!

Really...I would sure hate to see how yours turned out. Being wimpy and AFC and having chicks walk all over you, while you desperately hang on to your failed relationship hoping it will get better while you will be facing the inevitable dumping. BadAdvice here guys. You don't know what you're talking about. That is being delusional and AFC.

MY POINT REMAINS! THE OP SHOULD NEVER HAVE COME TO THESE FORUMS SEEKING ADVICE FOR THIS RELATIONSHIP WHICH HE CLEARLY CARED DEEPLY ABOUT! WE CAN ALL SEE THE REPERCUSSIONS OF DOING THIS!

Why not? Yes he cared, thats why he came here, she didn't care, she tried to dump him, he dumped her, he won, and she lost out in being in a good relationship.

You need to ripen up with women and relationships before you come on here attacking experienced posters by spewing your AFC views because you just make a fool out of yourself.

Lose the green dude before you talk a bunch of crap

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,........

Elmer Gantry,

I appreciate your post. I agree that IL was not there. That IS the problem. Everything else is just a symptom of that problem. I disagree with other parts of your posts, for reasons which are detailed in the parts of this thread you admitted you did not read.



All,

Just some random observations about this girl that I find humorous in the context of the DJ mindset. Both myself and some others have suggested that I got too needy and available with her. And I do believe that. But it's so funny that she was exactly the same way with me for most of the relationship. Examples:

- After we had started sleeping together but were unofficial, I decided to take her to Key West for a weekend just to see if I could stand to be around her that long. We went, had a great time, tons of sex, everything was perfect. Again, she was not my girlfriend yet. The night we come back I tell her, "I had a great time this weekend. I'll call you in a couple days." She did NOT like that and said, "What do you mean a couple of days? We just spent the weekend together. Why can't you call me tomorrow?" I told her that we weren't at the stage yet where we should talk every day. She got really upset.

- I was having dinner with her one time (we were together at this point) and we had a conversation about all the time we were spending together. She literally wanted to see me every day. I told her that I didn't think that was wise. She got really upset by that and started questioning me about how I felt about her.

- One time, several months ago, she packed up most of the stuff she had at my house because I politely suggested that I had a lot to do that day and I needed her to leave. She had been spending a LOT of time at my house, sleeping over almost every night (she lives 30 minutes away), and she got really upset. She kept going on about how she felt I was kicking her out and that she would "never do that" to me. After that point she didn't leave a ton of stuff at my house like before, she would always just bring it with her.

- With her ex, she told me that in the last half of the relationship, they were together 24/7 and that is what she got used to. Most of that time was spent studying, but basically they were never out of each other's sight for any reason. This went on a year.


Like I said somewhere ITT, when I met her I knew she was a very emotional/passionate girl and was going to be a huge challenge to deal with. She is aware of that herself and made numerous comments during our relationship about how thankful she feels to have found someone who knows how to deal with her and her complicated emotions. She is definitely 100x more emotional than most all other girls I've been with, but something in me absolutely loved it.

Not sure why I'm typing any of this. I just look back on it and smile. Yes, she was unstable. But man was she fun...

49au said:

Elmer Gantry,

I appreciate your post. I agree that IL was not there. That IS the problem. Everything else is just a symptom of that problem. I disagree with other parts of your posts, for reasons which are detailed in the parts of this thread you admitted you did not read.



All,

Just some random observations about this girl that I find humorous in the context of the DJ mindset. Both myself and some others have suggested that I got too needy and available with her. And I do believe that. But it's so funny that she was exactly the same way with me for most of the relationship. Examples:

- After we had started sleeping together but were unofficial, I decided to take her to Key West for a weekend just to see if I could stand to be around her that long. We went, had a great time, tons of sex, everything was perfect. Again, she was not my girlfriend yet. The night we come back I tell her, "I had a great time this weekend. I'll call you in a couple days." She did NOT like that and said, "What do you mean a couple of days? We just spent the weekend together. Why can't you call me tomorrow?" I told her that we weren't at the stage yet where we should talk every day. She got really upset.

- I was having dinner with her one time (we were together at this point) and we had a conversation about all the time we were spending together. She literally wanted to see me every day. I told her that I didn't think that was wise. She got really upset by that and started questioning me about how I felt about her.

- One time, several months ago, she packed up most of the stuff she had at my house because I politely suggested that I had a lot to do that day and I needed her to leave. She had been spending a LOT of time at my house, sleeping over almost every night (she lives 30 minutes away), and she got really upset. She kept going on about how she felt I was kicking her out and that she would "never do that" to me. After that point she didn't leave a ton of stuff at my house like before, she would always just bring it with her.

- With her ex, she told me that in the last half of the relationship, they were together 24/7 and that is what she got used to. Most of that time was spent studying, but basically they were never out of each other's sight for any reason. This went on a year.


Like I said somewhere ITT, when I met her I knew she was a very emotional/passionate girl and was going to be a huge challenge to deal with. She is aware of that herself and made numerous comments during our relationship about how thankful she feels to have found someone who knows how to deal with her and her complicated emotions. She is definitely 100x more emotional than most all other girls I've been with, but something in me absolutely loved it.

Not sure why I'm typing any of this. I just look back on it and smile. Yes, she was unstable. But man was she fun...

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Did you ever think that by you doing what is expected on this forum and acting like you didnt need or want her at times that THAT is what pushed her away? Maybe she thought she had to protect herself in some way because from her point of view you just werent that into her.

JustinVerj said:

Did you ever think that by you doing what is expected on this forum and acting like you didnt need or want her at times that THAT is what pushed her away? Maybe she thought she had to protect herself in some way because from her point of view you just werent that into her.

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His problem started BEFORE he came to this forum(hence why he posted). I'm pretty positive ELMER GANTRY is right. But that could partially be becasue of my jaded glasses I'm no wearing due to my relationship going the same exact way.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7

It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never what you thought it was.

Even if you could go back to where you were, any relationship you might have with an ex will be colored by all of the issues that led up to the breakup. In other words, you already know the end result of those issues. It will always be the 800 pound gorilla in the room in any future relationship.

This post has nothing to do with my situation specifically. I want to say this for guys who may read this in the future: There is a difference in being truthful with yourself and being paranoid.


Evaluate your situation its own merits. Sometimes your girl is telling the truth. Sometimes she is not. Sometimes she wants someone else. Sometimes she is just having a female moment of insanity. Sometimes she is a flake and a waste of your time. Sometimes she is a diamond in the rough that is just going through a tough time.


You notice a change and your girlfriend says she's stressed from work or school? Well, does she work part time at Applebee's? Or does she have a demanding career that can very easily drain someone's emotional energy sometimes? (Or in my case, is she not even sure she won't have to move out of state within a year, 200k in debt, preparing for one of the most critical board exams of her career, burned out on 7 years with the 4 toughest ones yet to come, facing a year of 130 hour work weeks, and unsure of what specialty she even wants to do?)

Sometimes, a cigar is actually a cigar. Sometimes it isn't.


There are relationships worth saving and relationships that can be saved. There are relationships that are NOT worth saving and relationships that cannot be saved anyway.

The advantage of having strangers on a forum dissect your relationship is that they bring a passionless, objective, honest point of view. The price is that they are working with such limited information that a single misunderstanding, a post skimmed instead of read, or your inability to articulate something as simple as the way that your girl's eyes still light up when she sees you, can lead them to jump to the standard, status quo conclusions. And from those conclusions, they give you advice that is great 99% of the time, but in your situation, it is not.

If you can look in the mirror and feel that you are being honest with yourself, then follow your intuition. Not your emotions, your intuition. Not every situation is as it is made out to be.

Danger said:

Based on the information in this thread, I would venture that the OP still has not calibrated his newfound PUA knowledge perfectly.

I would not say the advice in the DJ Bible or some of the "common knowledge" on the forum is what screwed him up, I would say that he does not yet have enough experience with the knowledge to apply it with 100% effectiveness.

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Can you elaborate on this? You're saying I didn't mirror her emotion/intensity close enough in the beginning?

JustinVerj said:

Did you ever think that by you doing what is expected on this forum and acting like you didnt need or want her at times that THAT is what pushed her away? Maybe she thought she had to protect herself in some way because from her point of view you just werent that into her.

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In this particular girl I think it had both negative and positive effects. She was used to 24/7 daily interaction with her ex and I think she missed that; yet she also enjoyed the challenge and she also admitted that what she and her ex had fallen into was not healthy.

Here is another interesting story. This was after our second date. She stayed at my house on both first and second dates, got me off both times but wouldn't have sex because she knew I was seeing other girls and because we hadn't been talking that long. So I called her up to make plans for a date 3 and she says she wants to see me but she hasn't gotten her work schedule yet, and she would have to let me know what day it would be. I told her that I understood about her schedule, but I was busy and could not just drop what I was doing and see her on a moment's notice. She gets emotional and says that I'm not making an effort to work with her busy schedule. I tell her that is not the case, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

I wanted this girl SO bad. But I didn't contact her.

A few days later she texts me and tells me she wants to see me, and to let her know when we can hang out. She later told me that she was talking to one of her friends who said that I had "called her out." She wasn't used to that and she talked about it for weeks after. She kept asking me if I would have just never talked to her again. This stuff DOES work. Tons of hot sex and fun times ensued in those following months.



That makes me think of another "fight" we had. I don't know why I'm sitting here typing these stories. Maybe to remind myself how emotional she is and the highs/lows of being with her. Second date, we go bowling, have fun, she comes back to my place again and gets naked. We drink wine, talk, and make out for a long time, then she grinds on me until I get off - soaking wet, but won't let me fvck her for reasons stated above. She gets me off twice. The second time it's like 1am on a weeknight. I'm laying there happy/content and I drift off to sleep. I wake up to her putting her clothes on and getting her stuff. She had already said she was staying the night so I asked what she was doing. She told me that she felt "used" and had wanted to stay up talking all night. I followed her down to the parking garage and finally convinced her to come back up and stay. I talked to her for like another hour before I just had to sleep. She was just so upset that after two orgasms and it being late on a weeknight, I didn't want to stay up and talk all night.

49au said:

She gets emotional and says that I'm not making an effort to work with her busy schedule. I tell her that is not the case, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

That makes me think of another "fight" we had. She told me that she felt "used" and had wanted to stay up talking all night. I followed her down to the parking garage and finally convinced her to come back up and stay. I talked to her for like another hour before I just had to sleep. She was just so upset that after two orgasms and it being late on a weeknight, I didn't want to stay up and talk all night.

We just spent the weekend together. Why can't you call me tomorrow?" I told her that we weren't at the stage yet where we should talk every day. She got really upset.

I was having dinner with her one time (we were together at this point) and we had a conversation about all the time we were spending together. She literally wanted to see me every day. I told her that I didn't think that was wise. She got really upset by that and started questioning me about how I felt about her.

- One time, several months ago, she packed up most of the stuff she had at my house because I politely suggested that I had a lot to do that day and I needed her to leave. She had been spending a LOT of time at my house, sleeping over almost every night (she lives 30 minutes away), and she got really upset. She kept going on about how she felt I was kicking her out and that she would "never do that" to me. After that point she didn't leave a ton of stuff at my house like before, she would always just bring it with her.

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These are a few examples you have given. I am sure there are many more. And I know you have mentioned previously upthread that there were fights early on besides these. This girl sounds SUPER emotional. She sounds mentally draining. Exhausting. She may be BPD as well and I invite you to look up the ten key signals of a BPD.

I mean you guys sounds you like fight constantly, or if not outright fighting, it sounds like she throws tantrums quite often.

So my question is this. What on earth makes you want to be with this woman? And what is it within yourself that is giving you such low self esteem that you would settle for someone like her? You seem like you have your act together. I don't get it.

BadNews said:

You're not getting the damn point here buddy. And I'm really getting sick and tired of your complete garbage "advice" you've been giving this guy. THINGS IN THIS LIFE ARE NOT ALWAYS BLACK AND WHITE! Its not either A) Put up with her "playing you off against another guy" (somewhat assumed, you DO NOT know all the nuances of this situation...even though you seem to think you do) or B) Break up with the dumb b!tch.

There are other courses of action that could be taken. You don't have to say "I'm here for you no matter what cause I'm a damn pvssy, and whenever you decide what you want I'll be fine with it." And you don't have to say "you're a dumb b!tch, you may as well be cheating on me, get the hell out." There is a middle ground to be found.

The facts:
-She started to seem 'distanced'
-She had been in contact with her ex, and had some sort of unresolved issues.
-Our friend 49 here PUSHED AND PUSHED AND PUSHED trying to 'work things out'...WHICH ONLY SERVED TO PUSH HER AWAY (possibly closer to her ex)

WHAT COULD OUR FRIEND HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY???
-If she is feeling overwhelmed by school/other life issues. DON'T MAKE YOURSELF/YOUR RELATIONSHIP ANOTHER ISSUE FOR HER! Things should be FUN, INTERESTING, and STRESS FREE (obviously not possible 100% of the time, but hey)...ESPECIALLY if you've only been dating for 8 months. This really is NOT a long time. The relationship doesn't have to/shouldn't be SUPER serious at this point in time...you're still getting to know eachother, and still becoming a 'couple' (part of eachother's lives).

-You SHOULD have, given her some space. She's obviously got a lot of crap going on, you don't want to be another part of that 'crap'. When you DO see/talk to her, it should be a relieving way for her to 'get away' from all the other garbage in her life. You did the exact opposite! If shes stressed out, give her some space to deal with the crap she needs to deal with, don't stress her out even more. When she wants/needs you to be there with her, you'll know. When you ARE there with her...YOU SHOULD BE TAKING HER MIND OFF ALL THE OTHER CRAP SHES BEEN DEALING WITH! THIS WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE END!

-The fact that you jumped from being a complete NUT JOB (read: obsessive) to throwing everything in her damn face and dumping her on her ass was taking it to a whole new level. The idea of 'making her realize how great you are/missing you cause you're not around' is good in theory. BUT THIS IS NOT THE WAY YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE ABOUT TRYING TO GET THESE FEELINGS OUT OF HER!

@ Cordoncordon, much of the advice you've given this poor guy over the past week(s?) has been BAD advice (when he got to the breakup stage it was a lost cause anyways)..and if he was taking your advice to heart, I would like to be the one to place much of the responsibility for how this relationsh!t ended on your shoulders. He handled it wrong from the outset (of her distancing herself), but you really helped put the nails in the coffin on this one. CONGRATULATIONS! YOU TRUELY ARE A COMPLETE MORON! If i could de-rep you any more I would. ALSO, much of your 'banter' with other posters on this topic seems FAR too much like you're trying to 'win'; or prove your point..and make sure everyone knows that you're right. YOU'RE NOT RIGHT ALL THE TIME DOUCHE BAG! AND YOU DON'T NEED TO SHOVE YOUR DAMN OPINIONS DOWN EVERYONE ELSE'S THROAT! GROW UP!

@ the OP...for future reference...PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! TAKE ANY AND ALL ADVICE YOU RECIEVE ON THIS SITE WITH A GRAIN OF SALT! I'll say it again. TAKE ANY AND ALL ADVICE YOU RECIEVE ON THIS SITE WITH A GRAIN OF SALT These morons do NOT know everything about YOUR relationship, and most of them know next to nothing about making relationships work. This site is focused on picking women up, not helping guys create/build a long-term relationship. Many of the people on here are HORRIBLE with women, and even worse when it comes to relationships. In the future, I would seek advice ANYWHERE but here, because it is quite apparent to me you recieved/acted on a TON of horrible, horrible advice from the people on this site. Ask friends/family who KNOW the people involved, and the situation. Ask a PROFESSIONAL (if it means that much to you, this seemed to be quite important). Seek help on RELATIONSHP sites if that's what you want. DO NOT SEEK HELP FOR YOUR LTR ON A DAMN PUA SITE!

End of rant.

I too am out of posts.

Fixed the blocked out words...hopefully you can comprehend now? I think its funny you assume in AFC. Quite frankly I really dont care what kind of assumptions you make about me, or my game. You obviously didn't read what I wrote, because as I said in my post, there were alternative ways for him to NOT LET HER WALK ALL OVER HIM, without resorting to extremes. Extremes being A) being a chump she walks all over B) going overboard and kicking her ass to the curb without putting in an effective effort.

Its humorous to me that you add all kinds of attempts to attack me personally (all of which are assumptions, with no support for said assumptions). And I'm the one that is "AFC" hahahahahaha!

Cheers!

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I don't know what world you live in, but in mine? When a girl I am dating first tries to break up with me a week earlier, then I come to find out she has been talking behind my back with an ex, and they are discussing getting back together, I do one thing. Say bye bye. No questions asked. End of story. Apparently you seem to have this Hallmark romantic idea in your head that instead, you should be "understanding", and compassionate, and tell her you will be there for her while "she figures things out". You are a 23 year old kid who thinks he knows it all. I think back to when I was 23, and I just laugh at how naive you are. You have a lot to learn my friend. For starters, how to NOT let women walk all over you, which judging from your posts? You seem really good at.

cordoncordon said:

I don't know what world you live in, but in mine? When a girl I am dating first tries to break up with me a week earlier, then I come to find out she has been talking behind my back with an ex, and they are discussing getting back together, I do one thing. Say bye bye. No questions asked. End of story. Apparently you seem to have this Hallmark romantic idea in your head that instead, you should be "understanding", and compassionate, and tell her you will be there for her while "she figures things out". You are a 23 year old kid who thinks he knows it all. I think back to when I was 23, and I just laugh at how naive you are. You have a lot to learn my friend. For starters, how to NOT let women walk all over you, which judging from your posts? You seem really good at.

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You're a complete retard buddy. Please go take a course in reading comprehension. I've specifically stated in my posts that you SHOULD NOT "let women walk all over you". Maybe you should read through it again. Apparently you're so narrow minded (probably why you're still "huntin pvssy" @ the ripe ole age of 37 hahaha) you think "relationships" are either black and white. Black being you stick your head in the sand and let women walk all over you and you "be there for her while she figures things out" OR white being you break up with her because you're SO insecure about being in a healthy relationship (where you have to GIVE a little to GET a little OMG! IMAGINE THAT CONCEPT?!?!) that you just break up with her. Unfortunately for guys like you, your game is so weak that you don't even see the alternatives. It's like you're wearing blinders. Relationships (read: NOT flings) aren't so simple my friend, its a shame after 37 years of life you STILL haven't realized this. The thought of alternatives are apparently so foreign to you, you've screwed yourself into believing they dont exist! "It's impossible to 'be there for a woman' without letting her walk all over you" you're thinking. THAT proves your game/mindset is WEAK! YOU have 2 options: be a pvssy, or be a "winner" and dump her first. I ON THE OTHER HAND have numerous options I can choose from...all of which ensure I remain true to myself, remain a confident/composed man, and (OMG) give a little with the expectation I'll get a little.

You pretend you know all the motives this woman had, and all the ins-n-outs of this relationship. You have no clue, and you're REALLY starting to generalize many of the OP's original statements to fit your arguement. Stop putting words into his, her, and my mouth to justify you're horse sh!t agruments.

Given all your posts/arguments with other posters in this particular thread...it really doesn't surprise me that you're a (likely very unsuccessful) 37 year old douche bag who comes onto a PUA site to learn "tips n tricks" to pick up some booty. While you're at it you think its necessary to ram your ideas down other people's throats. You're the loud mouth doucher at the bar that rambles on and on about the same crap you were rambling about 10 years ago. LIVING THE DREAM BUDDY! Am I right? The thing is...NOBODY wants to hear the same crap you've been rambling on about for 10 years...and NOBODY is listening anymore. TIME TO GROW UP!

As for me being 23 years old. I can guarantee you, with absolute 100% certainty, that I have 10x the game you've ever had in your life. I'm the guy you go all AFC on when I start hitting on the woman you're mackin, and she ends up leaving with me. You're a joke. You're an insecure, washed up, narrow minded, 37 year OLD douche bag who will LIKELY die alone, because you haven't the slightest clue what it takes (or even some of the pieces to the puzzle) to create and maintain a healthy relationship.

I'm done with talking to you, enjoy "Livin the dream" lol! Sounds very rewarding to be in your position @ 37!!!

CHEERS!

BadNews said:

You're a complete retard buddy. Please go take a course in reading comprehension. I've specifically stated in my posts that you SHOULD NOT "let women walk all over you". Maybe you should read through it again. Apparently you're so narrow minded (probably why you're still "huntin pvssy" @ the ripe ole age of 37 hahaha) you think "relationships" are either black and white. Black being you stick your head in the sand and let women walk all over you and you "be there for her while she figures things out" OR white being you break up with her because you're SO insecure about being in a healthy relationship (where you have to GIVE a little to GET a little OMG! IMAGINE THAT CONCEPT?!?!) that you just break up with her. Unfortunately for guys like you, your game is so weak that you don't even see the alternatives. It's like you're wearing blinders. Relationships (read: NOT flings) aren't so simple my friend, its a shame after 37 years of life you STILL haven't realized this. The thought of alternatives are apparently so foreign to you, you've screwed yourself into believing they dont exist! "It's impossible to 'be there for a woman' without letting her walk all over you" you're thinking. THAT proves your game/mindset is WEAK! YOU have 2 options: be a pvssy, or be a "winner" and dump her first. I ON THE OTHER HAND have numerous options I can choose from...all of which ensure I remain true to myself, remain a confident/composed man, and (OMG) give a little with the expectation I'll get a little.

You pretend you know all the motives this woman had, and all the ins-n-outs of this relationship. You have no clue, and you're REALLY starting to generalize many of the OP's original statements to fit your arguement. Stop putting words into his, her, and my mouth to justify you're horse sh!t agruments.

Given all your posts/arguments with other posters in this particular thread...it really doesn't surprise me that you're a (likely very unsuccessful) 37 year old douche bag who comes onto a PUA site to learn "tips n tricks" to pick up some booty. While you're at it you think its necessary to ram your ideas down other people's throats. You're the loud mouth doucher at the bar that rambles on and on about the same crap you were rambling about 10 years ago. LIVING THE DREAM BUDDY! Am I right? The thing is...NOBODY wants to hear the same crap you've been rambling on about for 10 years...and NOBODY is listening anymore. TIME TO GROW UP!

As for me being 23 years old. I can guarantee you, with absolute 100% certainty, that I have 10x the game you've ever had in your life. I'm the guy you go all AFC on when I start hitting on the woman you're mackin, and she ends up leaving with me. You're a joke. You're an insecure, washed up, narrow minded, 37 year OLD douche bag who will LIKELY die alone, because you haven't the slightest clue what it takes (or even some of the pieces to the puzzle) to create a healthy relationship.

I'm done with talking to you, enjoy "Livin the dream" lol! Sounds very rewarding to be in your position @ 37!!!

CHEERS!

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DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!

cordoncordon said:

These are a few examples you have given. I am sure there are many more. And I know you have mentioned previously upthread that there were fights early on besides these. This girl sounds SUPER emotional. She sounds mentally draining. Exhausting. She may be BPD as well and I invite you to look up the ten key signals of a BPD.

I mean you guys sounds you like fight constantly, or if not outright fighting, it sounds like she throws tantrums quite often.

So my question is this. What on earth makes you want to be with this woman? And what is it within yourself that is giving you such low self esteem that you would settle for someone like her? You seem like you have your act together. I don't get it.

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As I said before, I knew when I met her that she was going to be a lot to handle and was very emotional. And she has admitted that too.

What drew me to her, as crazy as this may sound, was this overwhelming femininity and warmth she had. I don't know how else to describe it. At that time in my life I was having a lot of fun, and was very free, but I was a cold, uncaring person. Being around her made me feel human. I could write pages about it but I probably couldn't explain it any better if I did.

By BPD I wasn't sure if you meant bipolar or borderline. I looked up some info on borderline personality disorder and found this:

People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all.

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Interesting.

And people ITT that have been constantly writing off the pressure from med school/career, as if it's the same as pressure from their girlfriend working a 9-5 job and coming home pissed because her boss is a jerk or something. I have heard the way she talks to her med school friends (they are all utterly exhausted and most regret going into medicine), and I have seen her break down and tell me that sometimes she doesn't even want to live anymore because she feels such a load and so much pressure to perform - all related to school. That episode really bothered me but it never happened again so I accepted it. This was a few months ago.

I admit that she has a lot of growing up to do. She has major fears/issues because of her parents' divorce and her TERRIBLE relationship with her father, her baby brother drowning many years ago (and on some level she blames herself), the abortion she had, not knowing if she can have a career and a normal life, etc. Some part of me wanted to save her I think. Because the beautiful moments with her were unlike anything else I've experienced with other people. And our sense of humor and playfulness was really, really in sync. Being with her was fun. On an emotional level I am very powerfully drawn to her. On a physical and mental level too. But rationally, in my head, I know I idealize her and I need to get past that.

BadNews said:

Apparently you're so narrow minded (probably why you're still "huntin pvssy" @ the ripe ole age of 37 hahaha)

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My gf of 2 years, I'm not hunting anything.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/rose55.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/rose4h.jpg/

BadNews said:

you think "relationships" are either black and white. Black being you stick your head in the sand and let women walk all over you and you "be there for her while she figures things out" OR white being you break up with her because you're SO insecure about being in a healthy relationship (where you have to GIVE a little to GET a little OMG! IMAGINE THAT CONCEPT?!?!)

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If you had read my earlier posts on this, you would have seen that at first, I told the OP to NOT break up, to try and see her side, and to try and fix things. It wasnt until I found out that she was so emotional, that she had already tried to break up with the OP, and that she was talking to an ex that I told him breaking up was probably the best course of action.

BadNews said:

Unfortunately for guys like you, your game is so weak that you don't even see the alternatives. It's like you're wearing blinders. Relationships (read: NOT flings) aren't so simple my friend, its a shame after 37 years of life you STILL haven't realized this.

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Ive slept with well over 200 women and have had at least 5 relationships over a year. One for 5, another for 4, this one for 2. I am presently in a VERY happy relationship. Could not ask for more. We may have had 3-4 arguments in 2 years. And we do everything and go everyplace together.

BadNews said:

You pretend you know all the motives this woman had, and all the ins-n-outs of this relationship. You have no clue, and you're REALLY starting to generalize many of the OP's original statements to fit your arguement. Stop putting words into his, her, and my mouth to justify you're horse sh!t agruments.

Given all your posts/arguments with other posters in this particular thread...it really doesn't surprise me that you're a (likely very unsuccessful) 37 year old douche bag who comes onto a PUA site to learn "tips n tricks" to pick up some booty. While you're at it you think its necessary to ram your ideas down other people's throats. You're the loud mouth doucher at the bar that rambles on and on about the same crap you were rambling about 10 years ago. LIVING THE DREAM BUDDY! Am I right? The thing is...NOBODY wants to hear the same crap you've been rambling on about for 10 years...and NOBODY is listening anymore. TIME TO GROW UP!

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You seem to really have some anger issues, and just in fact generalized about me, after accusing me of doing it.

BadNews said:

As for me being 23 years old. I can guarantee you, with absolute 100% certainty, that I have 10x the game you've ever had in your life. I'm the guy you go all AFC on when I start hitting on the woman you're mackin, and she ends up leaving with me. You're a joke. You're an insecure, washed up, narrow minded, 37 year OLD douche bag who will LIKELY die alone, because you haven't the slightest clue what it takes (or even some of the pieces to the puzzle) to create and maintain a healthy relationship.

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People who have to point out how great they are? Usually aren't.

JustinVerj said:

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!

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This guy is a lunatic who has been following me around on the stock message boards for a while now, bashing every stock I am in, and now he has found me here. Sad he has no life. This gives him joy apparently lol.

And 49...I meant BPD as in borderline personality disorder. She seems classic.

... and I'm glad this thread has devolved into a d1ck measuring contest.

How long is this post going to continue? :S

cordoncordon said:

This guy is a lunatic who has been following me around on the stock message boards for a while now, bashing every stock I am in, and now he has found me here. Sad he has no life. This gives him joy apparently lol.

And 49...I meant BPD as in borderline personality disorder. She seems classic.

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Maybe you are the lunatic. Ever think about that? Posting pics of your ugly girl all over sosuave, and bragging about making a million dollars when we all know you are lying.

Time for some Prozac buddy.

Sue Madre said:

Maybe you are the lunatic. Ever think about that? Posting pics of your ugly girl all over sosuave, and bragging about making a million dollars when we all know you are lying.

Time for some Prozac buddy.

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Ok mynameisnobody, aka bluntmaster etc haha. At least I know it isn't you this time.