Inner game work: Minding own tract.

As you all know, I'm probably the oldest virgin guy on here, but that doesn't mean I've given up. In fact, I'm really working hard on my "Inner Game". Right now, I'm working hard to get over feeling bad to losing a girl to a competition to an alpha-male.

This is how this goes: (also posted on enotalone).


The challenge of looking at your own tract as a shy person.

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This is an inspirational thread - where I wish to share a specific coping strategy that I have adapted, being a shy, timid and/or low status person competing with a lady with an alpha-male. Basically, this is called a self-contract.

What inspires this is usually there is a 'rub-in' experience when you see another alpha male sort of guy enter a competition with a girl and you feel you are just going to lose with her. The self-contract goes like this:

"I, Luke Skywalker, agree to treat (name of girl) fairly and squarely in accordance to whatever policies I have in effect with dealing with women in general and to be fair with her with respect to those policies.

I also agree to look at my own tract and not look at someone else's tract.

I agree to monitor a cost-benefit analysis of how I would fit in to any sort of dynamic (i.e. whether it is acquaintence, friendship or relationship) and make a sound decision based on these calculations, not influenced by feelings of 'inadequacy', unworthiness, or feeling bad about losing out to a competition to a person of perceived higher status".

Signed and dated Luke Skywalker.

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This sort of coping strategy is to assist the thoughts in the following reflections:

a) I'm going to look at my own personal growth as a shy person and where I have come from to where I am now, and where I could go, rather than looking at someone who has got that altogether or doesn't have any issues with women. This is referred to as looking at your own tract. You can not run your own race when you are preoccupied that others are running faster than you are.

b) Cost-benefit analysis means what is it an interaction costing me in terms of time, emotional investment, money, or any other considerations not mentioned here specifically, etc... and what I'm getting back out of it and whether or not it is worth it.

c) Policies refer to how I would treat this girl or perceive her with an artificial adjustment in an ideal world if there was no competition and how I would naturally (or in the absence of competition) behave on those circumstances. There should ideally be no change in behaviour or perception.

Beyond this I can offer no further insights. I'm trying to get my "Inner Game" solved up -- it's time for me to really move on and get over this. I hope this thread is an inspiration to other guys who are going through similar issues and encourage people who wish to add something to this thread to post something.

Why do you have to do a cost benefit analysis? Just talk to someone if you want to talk to them...you cant really quantify the personal growth that comes from doing things you are uncomfortable with. Skip doing the cost benefit analysis and just ****in do it. Unless you are talking about spending large amounts of money.

Why do you automatically assume you are low status? You seem intelligent. I think I've seen you say you work and have a job that pays a decent salary. Do you have any friends?

DonutMan said:

Why do you have to do a cost benefit analysis? Just talk to someone if you want to talk to them...you cant really quantify the personal growth that comes from doing things you are uncomfortable with. Skip doing the cost benefit analysis and just ****in do it. Unless you are talking about spending large amounts of money.

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It depends on whether or not you want to next a girl, or put up with crap in a nutshell. Emotional investment and time is just as important if no money is being spent. I like to quantify things and then analyze them like paying a hooker money for services and apply that to normal girls in terms of what's spent out and what you are getting.

That way, if you take anything personal and decide to either give up or lash out at someone, you've already done a careful analysis so you wont have any room for regret later.

DonutMan said:

Why do you automatically assume you are low status? You seem intelligent. I think I've seen you say you work and have a job that pays a decent salary. Do you have any friends?

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I'm a 33 y/o virgin on here. People with personality disorders or mental illness (i.e. schizophranea) can be very intelligent.
I've have been doing some reading up on wikipedia -- my personality profile seems like I'm schizotypal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal


I work as a Real-Estate agent but am struggling and not really successful. I didn't choose this profession because I wanted it, but because I couldn't find another real job - and you don't really get hired or fired, you are just either in business paying the expenses or you are not. I'm still living with my folks which has help me artifically maintain the business by chopping down virtually all living expenses. Usually, shy, quiet, timid and introvert. Not established economically, socially, and feel I'd get blown out with another alpha-male most of the time.

Therefore I believe I have a genuine struggle to work this inner game out and maintain barriers so that I wont let things get to me.

"Cost to benefit analysis" of people can be done in one of two situations:

1. You're a REAAAALY good judge of a person.
2. You know the person for awhile.


Luke, you're overthinking everything. Again. And this is coming from a guy who likes math, science, and business (me).


You're sure you're not autistic? You like to have everything in a nice, little, quantified box.

Alle_Gory said:

"Cost to benefit analysis" of people can be done in one of two situations:

1. You're a REAAAALY good judge of a person.
2. You know the person for awhile.


Luke, you're overthinking everything. Again. And this is coming from a guy who likes math, science, and business (me).

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Maybe so, but I have to deal with the issues as they come. Inner game requires allot of thought. I'm not thinking about any particular person -- I'm just focusing on what's going on inside.

Alle_Gory said:

You're sure you're not autistic? You like to have everything in a nice, little, quantified box.

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Why don't you look for the defination of autistic. I'm not impaired and can communicate with other people normally. However, maybe I do have a deep seated fear, deep down inside, of other people. That would explain why I don't have close friends other than my parents and tend to like to use anonymous boards to relate very personal issues. That fits a Schizotypal profile well.

If I do have a deep-seated fear of people, that could explain allot of stuff that has gone on (i.e. cancelling dates, confiding in my parents to allow them to c0ckblock me, etc...) with respect to inner game.

Luke Skywalker said:

Maybe so, but I have to deal with the issues as they come. Inner game requires allot of thought. I'm not thinking about any particular person -- I'm just focusing on what's going on inside.

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Inside is instinct and emotion. The base of a human. Thought and reason is a layer on top of all that.

I'm not impaired and can communicate with other people normally.

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We'll agree to disagree. There's varying levels of autism.

I do have a deep seated fear, deep down inside, of other people.

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I don't see why. Some people are so wonderful, hard to find though.

That would explain why I don't have close friends other than my parents and tend to like to use anonymous boards to relate very personal issues. That fits a Schizotypal profile well.

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"And now I will label myself Schizotypal". - You

Your parents aren't friends. They're your parents. If they were friends, you would have a choice in the matter. You don't.

You're on the right path but you need to go further in. You're scratching the surface.

I've determined that with so much information out there about personalities and personality disorders that I may be tempted to use some sort of false label on myself as some sort of crutch to explain why things are the way they are and use that as a cop-out.

In other words, I think at this point, since I'm expressing a strong interest in this and it's bothering me to the point that either I feel I have some sort of deep seated fear of women and want to know whether that's related to any sort of psychological issues, or if I'm just a normal guy in all the wrong circumstances, that I should get tested. If everything checks fine then hey that settles that issue once and for all.

I think I'm going to get myself tested out by a professional to see how my personality/psychological profile fits into things, and way I'll know better how to guage or work on my own inner gam.

I think you should go see a counselor. It seems as though you have a very negative image of yourself that isn't accurate. It's good that you are trying to understand yourself better but our perceptions of ourselves can be warped. A counselor will help you understand yourself better and more accurately and can help you work through some of these problems. Also, if you really want to change and grow I would suggest trying something totally different that you've never done. Move to a new place, or change careers. You could consider joining the military. Going back to college for engineering or business.

Luke Skywalker said:

I've determined that with so much information out there about personalities and personality disorders that I may be tempted to use some sort of false label on myself as some sort of crutch to explain why things are the way they are and use that as a cop-out.

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That's very reasonable thinking.

I think I'm going to get myself tested out by a professional to see how my personality/psychological profile fits into things, and way I'll know better how to guage or work on my own inner gam.

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Again, very reasonable. If you do have any issues, then treating them will bring you back to the norm making the inner work you do, FAR more effective. Just make sure you get a second and third opinion. If everyone says the same, chances are it would be true.

Alle_Gory said:

That's very reasonable thinking.



Again, very reasonable. If you do have any issues, then treating them will bring you back to the norm making the inner work you do, FAR more effective. Just make sure you get a second and third opinion. If everyone says the same, chances are it would be true.

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We all have issues. Some people handle them better than others though.

I've just emailed a councillor and he said that these personality disorders and diagnosis actually is an impediment, not something that actually helps people. Labelling otherwise normally functioning people as though something is wrong with them can serve no beneficial purpose and is the problem in itself. That does it, I'm not going to study any personality disorders or anything of that sort any more. What a waste of time!

However, since I have made some sort of complaint that I feel I have a deep seated fear of women....I am going to deal with that on my own terms. Normally I don't like to do this, but seeing as I have no close friends, I'm going to be accepting or pursuing friendships from women even if they don't lead anywhere, single, in a relationship or married --- since it's just friends it will just be, whoever is nice with me and that I can trust that will be safe for me, is going to be pursued. It always seems on one hand that I would like a close female friend....but the weakness of that is if someone else "breaks her" usually some poisonous chemical reaction occurs that toxifies everything - just as we saw happened recently with Maxtro and his friend. For me, this should be counter-balanced by the fact some FUG is in love with me and coming down here to meet me within a week, so I shouldn't take it too hard if anything goes south that way. I may accuse myself of being superficial based on the way I'm treating the FUG. Beggers can't be choosers, and if sexual intimacy is an issue, then I shouldn't just say I want a certain type of girl to experiment with -- it should just be whomever is available for me for that interest, even if they are physically ugly to me.

My "inner game" goal focus is just to feel comfortable around women and have some close female friends I can trust enough to talk about virtually anything without worrying about losing them, or not having this fear of loss over any trivial thing. Okay, let's stick to this for now.

This policy of 'pleutonic relationships' will be in effect until June 10th..after that I'll review myself again to see whether or not I'm content with my lot in life with respect to women. For now I'm settled with the above policy.

So you have a deep seated fear of women, but not of men. Yet you have no friends. Your only 'friends' are your parents.

Don't you see something wrong with that?


You shouldn't even be focusing on women, at all. It's a waste of time. Try getting a life, then a woman.

If you can, do a bootcamp or something. You need to focus. All this writing on sosuave.net, your constant need to research and label yourself, has it gotten you anywhere? Can you measure your improvement?

LOL. Maybe you should do another 'cost to benefit analysis'. Whoosh. I don't think you'll get that one.

Alle_Gory said:

So you have a deep seated fear of women, but not of men. Yet you have no friends. Your only 'friends' are your parents.

Don't you see something wrong with that?

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If I connect with a woman, then I feel a nice spiritual connection or bond with them. This connection where I can sort of feel myself around her and not worry about her judging me and sort of get the nerves worked down enough to feel relatively comfortable. Those are exactly the sort of connections or dynamics that I'm looking for.

I do not have a drive to seek out any other types of friendship. I know names and faces and have acquaintences or business connections, but if I want to work on my nerves with women, then the above scenerio appears to be ideal.

Alle_Gory said:

You shouldn't even be focusing on women, at all. It's a waste of time. Try getting a life, then a woman.

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I move according to my drive or what makes me happy. Telling an introvert person to get a life is like asking a vegetarian to eat chicken.

What I can understand is having a mixed (co-ed) circle of friends, like a small group Bible study, or some sort of social group where I meet on a regular occasion, usually with some sort of control or structure so I'll feel more comfortable. At University they had student groups that had that function. Now a days it's only meet-up or church groups. I remember I was in one such group back in 1996 and remembered it being a nice time... a weekly bible study. Just before the meeting I'd notice my mood would elevate and I'd look forward to meeting the group for the next Bible study. Or having any sort of closely tight-nit group would have that effect I guess.

The other concept of "life" such as hanging out with a large number of people, or something that would be out there is more of an extrovert style and I don't think it's something I'd feel comfortable with.

Alle_Gory said:

If you can, do a bootcamp or something. You need to focus. All this writing on sosuave.net, your constant need to research and label yourself, has it gotten you anywhere? Can you measure your improvement?

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I'm already focusing. I've stated some new "friendship" goals -- that is being comfortable around woman and trying to get a connection in a relaxed sort of way. That means that I'm not going to appear to have any sort of wierd agenda other than just relaxing and hanging out. Then there is that other FUG that's coming in from north Manitoba. So, that's enough for now. After all, there are other things besides women.

Luke Skywalker said:

If I connect with a woman, then I feel a nice spiritual connection or bond with them. This connection where I can sort of feel myself around her and not worry about her judging me and sort of get the nerves worked down enough to feel relatively comfortable. Those are exactly the sort of connections or dynamics that I'm looking for.

I do not have a drive to seek out any other types of friendship. I know names and faces and have acquaintences or business connections, but if I want to work on my nerves with women, then the above scenerio appears to be ideal.

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This is completely intelligible to me.

I move according to my drive or what makes me happy. Telling an introvert person to get a life is like asking a vegetarian to eat chicken.

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And that's a bad thing I assume. Think about it this way. No one cares what you are. I don't care, you don't care, nobody on the board here cares. People care about what you do and how it affects them. Bottom line.

Avoid useless labels, they are simply a waste of time.

The other concept of "life" such as hanging out with a large number of people, or something that would be out there is more of an extrovert style and I don't think it's something I'd feel comfortable with.

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I don't feel comfortable in large groups either. The herd mentality/group think pisses me off. Something like 8-10 people max is good.

What you have to understand is that women are social (and sexual) by nature. If you're not comfortable with that, then really do something else with your time because you won't be spending it with a woman, a normal one. Maybe women are just not your thing. Maybe you like to be alone.

Now tell me, in your years of posting here, not bothering to consider what other people say and the advice they give you, have you improved at all? Maybe you should think about that, this site is probably a distraction like many of the other things in your life.

I don't think you really want to succeed, that's what really scares you.

dude i dont know why you dont want to see a counselor, i really think you should. youre 33....coming from a 20yr old, times almost running out! my dad said not to get married until your 30, because you should be bonin the **** out of girls, and i agree.

but youre past that mark, soon youll be into your 40s (no offense to any of you older guys on here) with never any kind of interaction with women! take action now while you can!!!!


EDIT: i was just thinking...have you tried some of those online dating sites? ive never used them, but **** i feel like it might be a good resource....you know the girls contacting you already have some level of interest. everyone on there is just looking for one thing: find someone to get to know better and go on a date with. maybe dont go out and hit up every bombshell you see, but see if you get any requests. i know all the people on here will flame me for this suggestion but i feel as tho online dating sites have some purpose for some set of people (shy people, etc) especially if you refuse to "get a life"

pua1989 said:

dude i dont know why you dont want to see a counselor, i really think you should. youre 33....coming from a 20yr old, times almost running out! my dad said not to get married until your 30, because you should be bonin the **** out of girls, and i agree.

but youre past that mark, soon youll be into your 40s (no offense to any of you older guys on here) with never any kind of interaction with women! take action now while you can!!!!

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That is not true. I have had interactions with women, just not that far.

I do have strong religious beliefs against sex that I take seriously. I am not going to reject my faith by committing treason with a temple defiling sin (the body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, or at least MY body is). The Bible says that fornicators are not going to receive an inheritance in the Kingdom of God. So, you and I come from different background.

What is permitted within my religious beliefs (i.e. french kissing, petty-fondling, friendships), etc.. has ALREADY been done -- so I don't see any issues here. I have a fleshlight that approximates vaginal sex and it's pretty accurate. If so, technical vaginal sex doesn't appear that much of a big deal.

pua1989 said:

EDIT: i was just thinking...have you tried some of those online dating sites? ive never used them, but **** i feel like it might be a good resource....you know the girls contacting you already have some level of interest.

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I think online dating is more difficult than cold approaching strangers.

First of all, the attractive women go for all the bad boy profiles and get swarms of emails, while I usually end up biting the dust. I've had most of my experiences from people I meet online -- both good and bad. However, it still feels very time-consuming for me and my heart really isn't into it now.

It appears my heart is more in my immediate office environment, and that's how it is at. I take a very dim view of online dating and sort of have a feeling that many woman on there are just superficial, and unless you have a hot pic and a good job, most women just don't notice you on there among the other sausages that are vying for her attention. I've used online dating to express myself to anonymous women in the past too. As people have said, online dating is an ego-destroying experience.

Just look at a recent thread from Ponnani_maker and his online experiment.

pua1989 said:

everyone on there is just looking for one thing: find someone to get to know better and go on a date with. maybe dont go out and hit up every bombshell you see, but see if you get any requests. i know all the people on here will flame me for this suggestion but i feel as tho online dating sites have some purpose for some set of people (shy people, etc) especially if you refuse to "get a life"

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Shy people have it just as hard on there because you still have to meet the woman. If you are lucky enough to meet her you still have to compete with many other people who may be a bigger-better-deal to you. That's why online sites, you usually get no bites, if you do, you may just get a coffee date if you are lucky and then that's the last you see of her.

But, hey, you just need to meet one right person. Just don't have the stomach for it now I guess. Had my share back in 2006-early 2007 - believe me and I have not recovered from it yet.

Hey Luke, answer my question. What's the matter, you're scared of this too? Let's add it to the list then.

My question:
If you're not going to do anything that this site teaches, why are you here? I'm not asking you to leave, I want a well thought out and reasoned answer, like you have for almost everything else. Maybe somewhere in that 'logical' brain of yours you already thought of it. So post it.

Honestly, Luke, I would say you need a friend. You cant do well with women until you have learned to just be friends with normal people. Its like trying to crawl before you can walk. Also, if at 30+ years old you parents are trying to ****block you, they havent done a good job of raising you.

Luke Skywalker said:

That is not true. I have had interactions with women, just not that far.

I do have strong religious beliefs against sex that I take seriously. I am not going to reject my faith by committing treason with a temple defiling sin (the body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, or at least MY body is). The Bible says that fornicators are not going to receive an inheritance in the Kingdom of God. So, you and I come from different background.

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All of that faith and you dont have one true friend outside of your parents? Here is a bit of advice for you my friend: Grow up.

Luke Skywalker said:

fferent background.

What is permitted within my religious beliefs (i.e. french kissing, petty-fondling, friendships), etc.. has ALREADY been done -- so I don't see any issues here. I have a fleshlight that approximates vaginal sex and it's pretty accurate. If so, technical vaginal sex doesn't appear that much of a big deal.

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You only say that because you dont have a real woman on the other side of you. Its a pretty big deal.