She LJBF me, I told her otherwise..

One of my interests told me "I just want to be friends" so I told her "No thanks, I have enough friends." and she was like "What?" I told her that if we won't be anything more than friends than I don't want you in my life. She responded by telling me how I'm a selfish jerk and I only think about myself. Was this a smart thing to do? I was thinking, yanno, if I just be her friend, I'd still talk to her and eventually we could probably escalate more in the future. But if I cut all ties with her because she wants to take it slow, then I have 100% no chance. I just feel that she looks down on me now because she told me "I thought you were truly a genuine person but after what you told me I find you're truly a selfish prick who only cares about yourself"

id love 2 know the answer to this too

baurman said:

"I thought you were truly a genuine person but after what you told me I find you're truly a selfish prick who only cares about yourself"

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TRANSLATE - I thought you where a very very nice guy, but after not getting what you want you have denied me what i want too. selfish prick.

Listen here bro.. if you wanna be friends with the girl, Knock yourself out, otherwise, move on. get some other girl, other than spending the rest of yourlife thinking soon you might be promoted from being her girlfriend to her boyfriend..

if you really insist on being her friend..."put her on hold and take the next call" ..be her friend, but get yourself a girlfriend

Women have used the LJBF rejection for a hundred years because it serves an ego preservation function for her. To a greater or lesser degree, women require attention and the more they have of it the more affirmation they experience, both personally and socially. The LJBF rejection is a social convention that has classically ensured a woman can reject a man yet still maintain his previous attention. It also puts the responsibility for the rejection back on his shoulders since, should he decline the 'offer of friendship', he is then responsible for entertaining this 'friendship'.

This of course has the potential to backfire on women these days since the standard AFC will accept an LJBF rejection in the mistaken hope of 'proving' himself worthy of her intimacy by being the perfect 'surrogate boyfriend' - fulfiling all her attention and loyalty prerequisites with no expectation of reciprocating her own intimacy.

The LJBF rejection also serves as an ego preservation for her in that having offered the false olive branch of 'friendship' to him in her rejection she can also sleep that night knowing that she (and any of her peers) wont think any less of herself. Afterall, she offered to be friends, right? She is excused from any feelings of personal guilt or any responsibilities for his feelings if she still wants to remain amiable with him.

I think the default response should be to take the LJBF as what it is - as a rejection (and her loss) ergo, you remove the reinforcer - attention. Up until the point you made an approach for her intimacy she was enjoying the benefit of your attentions. After an LJBF response her latent intent is to keep that reinforcer of attention. Do not reward her for this disingenuous response, she will only use it on you again or with another guy in a similar situation since it was reinforced the last time this circumstance was experienced. And should the next fellow reinforce it further she will internalize this as her standard response.

Obviously the best way to enact this is to do what you did; use a takeaway and turn down her LJBF. An outright refusal of her psuedo-friendship offer would be ideal, but not always possible given social settings, however a takeaway is always warranted. The problem I see with doubting her intent with the LJBF is that, most women, whether serious or not in their LJBF rejection, will almost always follow up with some kind of communication when you do remove your previous attentions. This was a previous reinforcer to her and like most animals when faced with a behavioral extinction, she will attempt to re-establish that reward. This is why if you do end up cutting all contact with her she will have a tendency to pursue - and depending on the individual sometimes more actively pursue - your attention, even if she has no intent of becoming intimate with a guy. Women do this in an effort to maintain self-affirmation (i.e. she wants to verify everything is 'OK' between you and her in an email or IM) after a rejection.

The problem is when a guy begins to doubt her seriousness in her rejection when this occurs. We always read guys on this forum state that a fellow ought to "stick to his guns" in situations of rejection and this becomes more difficult when she confuses him with an unexpected burst of spontaneous attention. It's the stripper effect only more personal. Guys will spend small fortunes on lapdances at the strip club because it provides him with something he's not ordinarily accustomed to - spontaneous feminine attention. Similarly, when a woman does a follow up to a LJBF rejection after a takeaway the reaction is like that for men. Maybe she does actually like him afterall? Maybe he does have a shot with the stripper in his lap, she's giving him confusing signals in either instance.

What about when guys LJBF women? Anybody have an experiance of this? Do women cut all contact, accept it or do they stay friends hoping for more like guys do?

baurman said:

One of my interests told me "I just want to be friends" so I told her "No thanks, I have enough friends." and she was like "What?" I told her that if we won't be anything more than friends than I don't want you in my life. She responded by telling me how I'm a selfish jerk and I only think about myself. Was this a smart thing to do? I was thinking, yanno, if I just be her friend, I'd still talk to her and eventually we could probably escalate more in the future. But if I cut all ties with her because she wants to take it slow, then I have 100% no chance. I just feel that she looks down on me now because she told me "I thought you were truly a genuine person but after what you told me I find you're truly a selfish prick who only cares about yourself"

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either way as usual she has all the power... if you had 2 or 3 other F options you wouldnt need to give a damn...

baurman said:

Was this a smart thing to do?

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If you still want to generate interest (which at this point its pretty low possibility) I wouldn't have responded to her overtly like you did. I would just say "sure, ok" and never initiate contact with her. If she calls me to hang out, I will say that I am busy and have a date maybe another time.

You don't need to say to her directly you don't want her around but do so with your actions.

baurman said:

She responded by telling me how I'm a selfish jerk and I only think about myself.

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If you are a selfish jerk then she is a selfish b1tch who strung you around for attention without the intention of sleeping with you.

baurman said:

One of my interests told me "I just want to be friends" so I told her "No thanks, I have enough friends." and she was like "What?" I told her that if we won't be anything more than friends than I don't want you in my life. She responded by telling me how I'm a selfish jerk and I only think about myself. Was this a smart thing to do? I was thinking, yanno, if I just be her friend, I'd still talk to her and eventually we could probably escalate more in the future. But if I cut all ties with her because she wants to take it slow, then I have 100% no chance. I just feel that she looks down on me now because she told me "I thought you were truly a genuine person but after what you told me I find you're truly a selfish prick who only cares about yourself"

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bravo! Bravo! You did the right things. You are on the path to the dark side!

Danger said:

This is what I would do as well. Don't TELL her that you won't be her friend, just use actions to do as you wish and don't waste time with her.

As RT said, don't reward her anymore. She will probably pursue for more attention and you can give her token bits here and there but keep her pursuing while you are always bettering yourself and raising your value.

Then she's playing on your terms and you can still go FTOW and spin plates. The whole point of walking away from these girls is so that you don't fall into one-itis with them and that you focus your time where it belongs, on you. Keep the frame brother.

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I agree with this, don't flat out tell her you don't wanna be friends because that gives her the ego boost of knowing you want her and she can come around anytime and have you. By being indifferent but mildly friendly you keep the door open for opportunnity while showing her that she doesn't have that much value that you can't deal with being friednly with her without getting onitis.

Anyone who punishes a chick who isn't attracted to you for whatever reason, with "no contact" and Next, is an insecure AFC.

If you were just looking to F, then she probably isn't losing anything by you "cutting her off" anyways.

And if she really was cool and that was why you were attracted to her, and she thought the same about you but just didn't want a relationship with you, then you just lost a potential good friend for an insecure lame AFC reason.

iqqi said:

Anyone who punishes a chick who isn't attracted to you for whatever reason, with "no contact" and Next, is an insecure AFC.

If you were just looking to F, then she probably isn't losing anything by you "cutting her off" anyways.

And if she really was cool and that was why you were attracted to her, and she thought the same about you but just didn't want a relationship with you, then you just lost a potential good friend for an insecure lame AFC reason.

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I think any guy who ACTIVELY punishes a girl for the LJBF is trying to compensate for a hurt ego. and the thing is a lot of girls can pick up on the subcommunication. it just multiplies the insecurity, lowers your value

attraction is dynamic with females. they tell you one thing today, later you're having fun with other girls and they're not and they start acting in a way totally incongruent to whatever they told you before

if you get the LJBF, shrug it off and don't let it affect you - aka turn your attitude negative. you know your worth better than she does

You should always just say "That's a great idea, I think we should just be friends".

It throws them for a loop and you keep the upper hand.

iqqi said:

Anyone who punishes a chick who isn't attracted to you for whatever reason, with "no contact" and Next, is an insecure AFC.

If you were just looking to F, then she probably isn't losing anything by you "cutting her off" anyways.

And if she really was cool and that was why you were attracted to her, and she thought the same about you but just didn't want a relationship with you, then you just lost a potential good friend for an insecure lame AFC reason.

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Not at all. Explain why we would want to hang around chicks who aren't attracted to us? Remember, we DJ's have plenty of friends and things to do, and are not attracted sexually to chicks who are just "really cool". We know what we want and how to get it, and if she will not deliver we will have to move on.

Personally I think if you get on with the girl well and she has a nice personality then it's ok to be friends with her. Just act indifferent about the whole rejection thing..

Eventually if you do stay friends you'll get introduced to her friends and the best revenge you can get is to improve yourself and show her what she's missing.

baurman said:

Was this a smart thing to do?

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Yes.

baurman said:

she told me "I thought you were truly a genuine person but after what you told me I find you're truly a selfish prick who only cares about yourself"

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Tell her she looks fat.

Who cares what she thinks of you?

So you basically told a girl that you were not interested in being her friend unless she would sleep with you. Do you tell this to girls up front?

Bad move. You should've responded with "Sure!" and then just moved on with your life--either keeping her as a friend or gradually phasing her out of your life. Don't ever do an overt 180 turn, and most of all, don't tell her about it! You sounded like a whiny kid that didn't get his way.

If you kept her as a friend, she might be able to hook you up with other girls if she truly wasn't interested in you. Or, she might've come around after you start spending less time with her. What you did just ensured that she will badmouth you to all her friends and write you off as a loser. You don't want that to happen.

LBJF doesn't last forever, contrary to popular belief. I've been LJBF'd and turned it into a f-buddy situation just by staying confident. If you throw a tantrum and march off in a huff, you will confirm her decision as the right one. Imagine if a salesperson did that to you: What would you think of them?

slaog said:

What about when guys LJBF women? Anybody have an experiance of this? Do women cut all contact, accept it or do they stay friends hoping for more like guys do?

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I've done that one and they still seem to keep calling or bug me somehow by either myspace or phone or w/e.

baurman said:

One of my interests told me "I just want to be friends" so I told her "No thanks, I have enough friends." and she was like "What?" I told her that if we won't be anything more than friends than I don't want you in my life. She responded by telling me how I'm a selfish jerk and I only think about myself. Was this a smart thing to do? I was thinking, yanno, if I just be her friend, I'd still talk to her and eventually we could probably escalate more in the future. But if I cut all ties with her because she wants to take it slow, then I have 100% no chance. I just feel that she looks down on me now because she told me "I thought you were truly a genuine person but after what you told me I find you're truly a selfish prick who only cares about yourself"

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She was speaking out of a childish anger because she couldn't get her way and place you in the friend box.

You not agreeing to this false friendship is not an act of you punishing her, it is an act of her punishing herself.

As it was not an offering of true friendship.

You saw through the lie.

All she wanted to do was feel like she did a good deed as well keep your attention without giving up anything of herself that you'd really want from her ie sex and a relationship. She gets all that she wants from you while you get nothing at all worthwhile from her. Bad deal.

I'm reading a lot of sickening AFC posts in here, no surprise at all one of the grossest examples of this comes from the female troll of the site but in anycase forgetting that for the moment I want to tell you that you did the right thing.

Telling the girl in a calm manner how you live your life:

"I don't have chick friends that I'm not fvcking"

Is not you punishing the girl but merely telling her you will not be entering into her reality any time soon to placate her.

To do anything less than that would for a fact be you "not being a genuine person".

So again remember her words to you were anger motivated trype.

Nothing more.

Staying true to yourself and what you want from women and the world is the only way you ever become and stay a true man.

"I was thinking, yanno, if I just be her friend, I'd still talk to her and eventually we could probably escalate more in the future. But if I cut all ties with her because she wants to take it slow, then I have 100% no chance. I just feel that she looks down on me now because she told me "I thought you were truly a genuine person but after what you told me I find you're truly a selfish prick who only cares about yourself"

Playing friends or even being friends is NOT the way to a woman's heart.

Being comfortable in your sexuality and letting your intentions be known through things like kino, asking her out on dates, going for the kiss. That is the key to finding out where you stand.

You try the friend route and she is going to think of you as a friend and rightly deny you when you try to make a move on her because again you are just a friend to her if you go this route.

Its a typical AFC mistake to try to be friends first. All this does is set you up to be an AFC orbiter and all guys know this is an extremely undesirable place to be. It breeds oneitis and is a waste of your time.

And if she persists in looking down on you and never comes around to looking at and considering you in a different light it doesn't mean you are worthless or did the wrong thing or should take AFC advice and see how that works for you. It simply means she was genuinely not interested and you move on to the NEXT one.

For christsakes...

Here is a link for Ganji Games http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21610

I did a search and had to look a bit so for anyones convenience, while searching I came across http://laddertheory.com
Which describes the different ways women and men size each other up for sex or friendship.

Yes I am fairly new here so some of you long-timers probably already seen all this, I found it very interesting. It may help you baurman

If you find this message interesting go ahead and hit the scales, if not well ignore it

I think the best thing to do is, if you see an LBJF coming, beat the girl to the punch and tell her you just want to be friends before she can do it herself.

That will really throw her a curveball.

From that point on, it's up to you whether or not you want to actually try to be friends with her, because there is only a very slim chance that she will try to contact you. Personally, what I used do is, avoid calling her, instant messaging her, texting her or doing anything to communicate with her, but if you see the girl somewhere in public talk to her and be cordial. If she asks why you haven't made contact with her, tell her you've been busy.

If she drops a comment and says something like "Well, we should get together sometime", her IL is back up and she is interested in you again. Get her number again if you don't have it, call her and plan out an activity, but don't try to set up anything that resembles a date. Do something like meet up with her and some of her friends at a bar, and of course bring some of your own friends. If you have game, you can swing an ONS out of a situation like that.

Of course, after you LBJFed her initially, you should be spinning other plates or pursuing other girls. Don't ever make your sole purpose with all this to win her back or hook up with her. Spin plates and date other girls in the meantime, until you bump into your LBJFed girl and have a random encounter with her somewhere.

Women want what they can't have, and a guy who LBJFs them presents that kind of a challenge.