Do you guys find attractive, single, undamaged women at this age?

How IS the dating pool for you guys that "get it"?

I'm 27, and it seems like every girl my own age is:

-a tool
-dating a tool
-engaged/married

It's like women all jumped at the first decent guy that came into their lives JUST to have a boyfriend (you know, because all the other girls had boyfriends) and now they're stuck with a lesser man. And they would RATHER be with me...they ADMIT to wanting to be with me...but they stick to them out of "respect" for a relationship they don't even want to be in. It's no longer "their relationship"...the relationship OWNS THEM.

Either that, or they've just gotten OUT of a relationship, and now they're so scared of getting in another one that they AVOID MEN COMPLETELY. As if THEY were responsible for her getting all f'd in the head in a bad relationship, not HER HERSELF.

I dunno...I would like to find a woman who is "de-strung", who is in charge of her own life, who isn't >40 years old, who isn't ugly/fat, and who isn't boring to be around.

Why is that so hard to find? Is it me? Do you guys find them?

It's like women all jumped at the first decent guy that came into their lives JUST to have a boyfriend (you know, because all the other girls had boyfriends) and now they're stuck with a lesser man.

Click to expand...

This is why I'm one of the guys who advises people to go after girls with boyfriends. It's generally just freak chance that they're together.

One of the girls who bought me to this site, was a 9+ with a resemblance to Gillian Anderson, but thinner, but mainly I remember her voice, which was kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWMIXgCaJPQ

but better. She was drama-free, understanding, always polite, yadda yadda. I never dated her or anything. Her bf was a swell guy, not an abusive jerk. But the thing is, she had to work her butt off to support him while working on her Ph.D. in Chemistry (for real). He lived with her, and couldn't get a job, as he didn't have a High School diploma, as he spent his High School years in jail.

They've ALWAYS been together. They're still together now, I don't have to check, because she'd never dump him unless he cheats on her or beats on her, and he's not stupid enough to throw away the treasure that's landed in his lap, pretty much by chance. It wasn't long after, I started seriously asking WTF women want . . .

Hey Squirrels, it sounds like you need a vacation! If you can, pack a bag, and go to Europe. Meet some women that are out of your area, your comfort zone, and it will change your perspective.

As for as going for women that already have boyfriends, I guess it's up to you to decide what you want. Any women that will leave a boyfriend for you, may leave you for another guy. Branch swinging I think is the term, there is a lot of women that are always on the look out for the "bigger better deal".

I'm currently seeing one.

*********

Point well taken, Phyzzle. It appears many if not most women pick out a replacement before they jump ship.

I'm not sure if this applies to you or not, squirrels, but I know it does apply to a lot of the guys on here. They are looking for perfection and a very unrealistic "ideal" woman and think they will be able to screw anything that walks and shows interest in them for as long as they want and that when they get older there will be all kinds of much younger women who have never been married, never had kids, never had anything bad happen to them, yada, yada, yada...you get the drill. The fact of the matter is...no one is perfect and all the "rules" many on here apply make it very, very unlikely that they will ever meet anyone of quality.

To become a quality person requires widsom and experience...and a person only gets that from going through some crap and learning to adapt and overcome.

Now, I'm not saying to rush out and look for someone who doesn't fit your ideal...only suggesting that you always try to keep an open mind and don't automatically overlook someone just because they were married, have a kid, was abused or raped, etc. A lot of those women are pretty great people.

I'm currently taking a Trauma, Sexual Abuse and Recovery class at my college. There are only women in my class and there are about 30 women there. There are a lot of discussions about people's own experiences and almost every single woman in that class has either been molested, raped or abused as a child or through domestic violence. There are only about 4 or 5 of them who are really whacked. I swear they must be taking the courses in lieu of much needed therapy. I would not wish those few women on my worst enemy. However, most of the women in that class seem to be very well adjusted, positive and decent people. About 1/4 of those women in the class are married or engaged. About half of them either were married or were in a LTR and had one or more children...the average is 2 kids. That leaves only 1/4 of the women who don't have any children. A couple of those "play for the other team" and include some of those whacked girls. I guess what I'm saying is that the rules about women guys on here tend to follow would cause you guys to target only allow yourself to date about 1/4 of the available women in my class and half of the whacked girls are in that group, lol.

My point is...pay less attention to the rules about what kind of women you are supposed to date and pay more attention to what kind of a person a woman is. If you do that you'll be more likely to find someone who is a good person.

Phyzzle said:

This is why I'm one of the guys who advises people to go after girls with boyfriends. It's generally just freak chance that they're together.

One of the girls who bought me to this site, was a 9+ with a resemblance to Gillian Anderson, but thinner, but mainly I remember her voice, which was kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWMIXgCaJPQ

but better. She was drama-free, understanding, always polite, yadda yadda. I never dated her or anything. Her bf was a swell guy, not an abusive jerk. But the thing is, she had to work her butt off to support him while working on her Ph.D. in Chemistry (for real). He lived with her, and couldn't get a job, as he didn't have a High School diploma, as he spent his High School years in jail.

They've ALWAYS been together. They're still together now, I don't have to check, because she'd never dump him unless he cheats on her or beats on her, and he's not stupid enough to throw away the treasure that's landed in his lap, pretty much by chance. It wasn't long after, I started seriously asking WTF women want . . .

Click to expand...

Dude...EXACTLY. That's just it...women get STUCK with these guys they eventually fall out of love with, and they stay with them just because "it's the right thing to do" and the guys guilt-trip them into feeling like cheap *****s if they break up with them. All wonderful women, except so weak-willed they're slaves to a bad relationship. And as you said, it's usually the GUY living in the GIRL'S house, eating out of her hand, and generally being a needy little b!tch.

I've dated many of them too...and they admit to wanting to be with me more, but they WON'T LEAVE the situation for fear of being stalked or verbally/physically abused or just out of the SHEER FEAR OF BEING SINGLE when all their friends are either married or dating.

I guess a lot of it is the weak-ass guys' faults for messing with these girls' heads, but that doesn't excuse them from being too weak-willed to control their own destinies.

Yet I can't find a single girl anywhere who doesn't have SOMETHING with her that's a deal-breaker. And the attached ones, they're married to their relationships. They could meet prince charming and they would let him go for the sake of "saving the relationship" that's already fatally wounded.

Mr.Positive said:

Hey Squirrels, it sounds like you need a vacation! If you can, pack a bag, and go to Europe. Meet some women that are out of your area, your comfort zone, and it will change your perspective.

As for as going for women that already have boyfriends, I guess it's up to you to decide what you want. Any women that will leave a boyfriend for you, may leave you for another guy. Branch swinging I think is the term, there is a lot of women that are always on the look out for the "bigger better deal".

Click to expand...

If a girl is happy with her man, it's one thing. If I see that, there's no reason to get involved. And she won't leave.

But if she gives me that, "I'm kinda involved and I don't know if I should see you if it'd be disrespectful" or that "I'd rather be with you, I don't even love him any more, but it's more complicated than that" bullsh!t, it's frustrating to me, because I KNOW she'd be happier with me. But she's caught up in some bullsh!t social stigma...ugh, it makes me want to puke. I'd just avoid women like this completely...but they seem to be everywhere. I can't FIND one who has some self-respect.

Wyldfire said:

To become a quality person requires widsom and experience...and a person only gets that from going through some crap and learning to adapt and overcome.

Click to expand...

That's exactly right...but most women NEVER overcome their problems...they just fall victim to them and keep trying to convince themselves that it's all right or "appropriate" to be a victim instead of doing something to survive. At least that's MY experience.

only suggesting that you always try to keep an open mind and don't automatically overlook someone just because they were married,

Click to expand...

No problem with that.

have a kid,

Click to expand...

Deal-breaker

was abused or raped, etc.

Click to expand...

Depends on how she handles it. Really, I shouldn't even know about that sh!t until we are REALLY close...but a lot of women wear that sh!t on their sleeves and expect constant pity.

It's not that I'm not sympathetic to women who have been raped. But I'm not sympathetic toward rape VICTIMS. Life goes on...am I meeting a "rape victim" or am I meeting a vibrant young woman who happens to have gone through some abuse in her life and has come out of it a better and stronger person?

the rules about women guys on here tend to follow would cause you guys to target only allow yourself to date about 1/4 of the available women in my class and half of the whacked girls are in that group, lol.

Click to expand...

Which rules are that? That one about being "attractive"? LOL

My point is...pay less attention to the rules about what kind of women you are supposed to date and pay more attention to what kind of a person a woman is. If you do that you'll be more likely to find someone who is a good person.

Click to expand...

Is "good person" the female equivalent of "nice guy"?

Wyldfire said:

That leaves only 1/4 of the women who don't have any children. A couple of those "play for the other team" and include some of those whacked girls. I guess what I'm saying is that the rules about women guys on here tend to follow would cause you guys to target only allow yourself to date about 1/4 of the available women in my class and half of the whacked girls are in that group, lol.

Click to expand...

So, you agree with squirrels that the dating pool of quality women in this country is miniscule (basically 1/8 of your class). Me too.

What man wants to cuckold for a whacked-out single mom? :crackup:

I mean, I hardly think wanting a single young, sane woman without baggage is asking for a lot. That should be a bare MINIMUM requirement, in fact.

I swear, only American (& London) men have to deal with this crap. Take a trip elsewhere abroad and you will be amazzzeeddd at how women should be like! You don't know how bad we have it until you've seen all the greener pastures out there!

squirrels...I'm talking about the way a lot of guys on here will tell you to automatically next someone who hasn't actually done anything to warrant that just because she was married and divorced or her parents got divorced, because she has a kid, etc.

By good person I mean someone who will treat you good and who is capable on having a healthy relationship.

A perfect example of this is the attitude towards my fiance who was in prison when I met him. I don't make a habit of meeting men in prison...that was a one time deal. His kids lived next door to me and their mother had just died a few months before. His 10 year old son especially needed help, support and someone to lean on. The kid took to me and I loved him almost instantly. His Dad sent a letter to his older sister asking them to go see him that weekend. They had no way and I offered to give them a ride. The daughter began telling me that I should get together with her father and I told her no way was I getting mixed up with someone in prison. I had the exact same prejudices everyone here has. When we met we started to correspond about the 10 year old boy. The kids got evicted and I took them in. They had no one. After getting to know their father and seeing what an amazing person and incredible father he was, our love for his kids led to use loving each other. That man was SO good to me and made me VERY happy. I would have missed out on something wonderful if I had not given myself the opportunity to get to know him.

In fact...the men who have treated me the best and who I have loved the most were not found while I was seeking a man. They were found quite by accident in places I never would have imagined ever finding such amazing men.

wayword...the dating pool is shallow...but it's not just women that are a mess. Men are a mess, too. Once you weed through the abusers, cheaters, drunks, drug users, crazies, liars, users, men who make babies and don't help raise them, career criminals, lazy f*cks who don't work and play video games all day it doesn't leave a whole hell of a lot of men worth dating.

Yeah, there's lots of places where American men can go where the local women will feign love and affection and at first it will look like you hit paydirt. However, the vast majority of those women are looking for a green card and a meal ticket. They play/juggle scores of American, British and Austrailian men, who send them money from wherever they live and they are still out at night looking to hook even more. Also, the second you bring that woman to the US she's going to become American...and just the same as the women here. Why waste all kinds of money to buy something that is just going to turn into the same thing you already have at home? I have known A LOT of Asian women who married guys in the military and a few Russian women as well. One of the Russian women was a nightmare for her husband. She would go out and get drunk and have sex with his subordinates and he'd find her the next morning half naked lying face down in some ditch along the road on the base...passed out cold. She was mean to him, too...and violent.

Mate, 27 is getting on for 30, it IS quite likely that she will be seeing someone...

Wyldfire said:

Yeah, there's lots of places where American men can go where the local women will feign love and affection and at first it will look like you hit paydirt. However, the vast majority of those women are looking for a green card and a meal ticket. They play/juggle scores of American, British and Austrailian men, who send them money from wherever they live and they are still out at night looking to hook even more. Also, the second you bring that woman to the US she's going to become American...and just the same as the women here.

Click to expand...

Well, you run higher risk of this if you pick the ones who WANT to come to the US and bring her here. So, that would not be the best way to do things. Despite the fact that Donald Trump & Tiger Woods both did (and it's working well for them so far).

But if you move overseas and move in with the locals there - then all these stereotypes are easily avoided. I know a few ex-pats in the EU...and they've all sworn off American women now. And they are neck-deep in a constant stream of gorgeous EU women fighting over them. American women there grow frustrated and simply can't compete. They often feel very guilty and apologetic at how badly they were used to treating men.

But it's too late. They've already earned their bad reps and no one wants to deal with their BS anymore. Most American men left the US to ESCAPE whacko byches like you've described in your classes. So, most of these girls come crawling back here because they can't handle a more egalitarian dating life overseas where there are higher standards for women than simply having a pulse.

I'd say 25-30 is prime. You have an edge over the younger guys due to experience, yet you can still date the whole gamut, 20-30. 30-35 isn't bad either. It's once you hit 35+ that you've peaked, and things start going downhill. Why do I say that? Because 50% of all women are married by the age of 25. The latter 50% (half) is composed of a larger portion of undesirables. You have to date women a full 10 years younger to keep 50% (the less desirable 50%) of the dating pool. But it doesn't last for long since 80% marry before 30. By the time you're 40, it's slim pickings indeed if you are looking for a never-married, childless, attractive girl.

You're 27 man. WTF are you talking about?

squirrels said:

Either that, or they've just gotten OUT of a relationship, and now they're so scared of getting in another one that they AVOID MEN COMPLETELY.

Click to expand...

They all do this. They act as if they want time before going through another relationship. It doesn't take much though to change their mind.

Venusian Artist said:

Mate, 27 is getting on for 30, it IS quite likely that she will be seeing someone...

Click to expand...

I know this. What I don't get is when "seeing someone" suddenly became a binding contract like marriage is. Sh!t, you can meet a woman who's 2 or 3 dates in with a new guy and she'll tell you she's "involved".

When my sister first started dating, my parents used to talk to her about "just dating guys to have a boyfriend when all her friends did"...you know, so she wouldn't be left out, as if it was a thing that women eventually outgrow. NORMAL women outgrow that at a certain point and date around until they find someone they're really into and get serious with him.

These days it's like women are so immature they NEVER outgrow that point in their lives...they stick with a guy just so they aren't the only one of their friends without a boyfriend, acting like the reputation of that relationship is the most important thing in the world. Then when they finally outgrow that immature behavior, they find they're already married with a kid or two.

It's tough being a homewrecker, because as time goes on it gets harder to tell which women ARE really happy (you don't want to break them up) and which ones are just faking it and being stupid. Plus the other guy, all their friends and relatives, and in some cases the girl HERSELF will look at you as the "bad guy", even though she wants you more...or WOULD want you more...she never gives you a chance because "OMG the relationship! Protect it above all else!!"

And the chumps take advantage of this behavior if they happen to snag a "good one". Women's social programming is so strong you can pretty much brainwash a girl into submission in a relationship through pulling these social strings. And once you pull them so hard the girl becomes a worthless victim of social conditioning. Even if they DO break up for whatever reason, she's "damaged goods" because this dude's twisted her mind so.

Women who can't at LEAST think for themselves, who aren't free of these mundane social conditions, don't really do much for me besides turn me on sexually. It's like they're all still plugged into the Matrix and don't WANT to see that they have a life and CAN choose things for themselves instead of following whatever sh!tty groove has been laid down for their life by events around them.

Unfortunately I just don't FIND those until it's already too late...until they wake up one day and realize that their lives are trainwrecks and they're slaves to an A-hole husband and a litter of runts. That doesn't usually happen until mid-to-late 30s.

By then, they're usually no longer attractive or they have a pre-made family. Both of which are deal-breakers, regardless of the reassuring words of WyldFyre.

I can't help feeling like I'mma keep on finding girls who are fun to f*ck but not worth a sh!t to keep around until I'm lke 35, and then just give up on continuing my progeny or finding a long-term mate.

Are there any REAL WOMEN out there? It seems like only men ever "emerge from the matrix".

blueguy said:

They all do this. They act as if they want time before going through another relationship. It doesn't take much though to change their mind.

Click to expand...

No, it doesn't. But they won't even give you a chance most of the time. The hardest part is getting a piece of her time...you either need to be FORCED to spend time wtih her through work, school, or some other mutual thing, or you'll just be playing phone-tag forever while she thinks of new reasons to dodge you because she "doesn't trust herself with you".

squirrels said:

No, it doesn't. But they won't even give you a chance most of the time. The hardest part is getting a piece of her time...you either need to be FORCED to spend time wtih her through work, school, or some other mutual thing, or you'll just be playing phone-tag forever while she thinks of new reasons to dodge you because she "doesn't trust herself with you".

Click to expand...

Yes, they will do that sometimes IF their ego isn't involved. If she senses some hesitancy or rejection on your part, and she respects/likes you, she isn't going to avoid you until she figures out WHY or actually gets you to turn around. That's when you begin to absorb her thoughts because you are interesting... a challenge.

wayword said:

Well, you run higher risk of this if you pick the ones who WANT to come to the US and bring her here. So, that would not be the best way to do things. Despite the fact that Donald Trump & Tiger Woods both did (and it's working well for them so far).

But if you move overseas and move in with the locals there - then all these stereotypes are easily avoided. I know a few ex-pats in the EU...and they've all sworn off American women now. And they are neck-deep in a constant stream of gorgeous EU women fighting over them. American women there grow frustrated and simply can't compete. They often feel very guilty and apologetic at how badly they were used to treating men.

But it's too late. They've already earned their bad reps and no one wants to deal with their BS anymore. Most American men left the US to ESCAPE whacko byches like you've described in your classes. So, most of these girls come crawling back here because they can't handle a more egalitarian dating life overseas where there are higher standards for women than simply having a pulse.

Click to expand...

If I lived in another country the last men I'd want to date would be an American man. I think that's a given and works two ways. I'd have to buy any guy I dated some deodorant, though. I don't know what the deal is with European men and body odor, but a very high percentage of European people have stinky armpits. One of my childhood friends used to live in Germany while her husband was in the Army. She told me that most of the women over there don't shave their armpits or legs. I thought that was really gross. I have a hippy cousin who is like that and I just want to pin her down and shave her armpits everytime I see her. Of course, she always wears sleeveless tops too...yuck.

American women are no worse than American men. There is a sense of entitlement in the US and it's more prevalent the younger a person is. It's not just the women. There are plenty of good women in the US (and good men). However...good women don't hang out in bars and that is the main place men go looking.

Any woman who will not date you while she is dating someone else is a good sign. Those women are more likely to be decent women. I don't ever date more than one person at a time because I view that as disrespectful. Even if I'm not sure I want a relationship with a guy I take the time to get to know him well enough to know if I do or not before I see anyone else. If I want to start dating someone else I will stop seeing the other guy first. The women who date multiple guys at once are usually either really slvtty and easy, are just "serial daters" looking for free meals and fun or are AWs.

squirrels,

The women you describe - women that can think for themselves, who don't live in the matrix, and who are attractive, mature, and don't have baggage most certainly DO exist. Yes, even in America, and even in your neck of the woods.

But they are rare. Top 3 percent rare. And if they can think for themselves, and thus understand their true value, they know they're in very high demand. They are in a position to be highly selective, and consciously or subconsciously they know. With that in mind, what are the conditions they require of a man?

Aside from an attractive product, they want a compelling reality and a man who has his sh1t together. A man who's also a top 3 percenter in value.

The problem for women though, as is well known through discussions on this forum, is time is not on their side. And if she subscribes to the traditional role of femininity, where the man builds his world and the woman supports her man, she's on the clock to get in with the best man she can attract by the time she hits her early 30s.

So if you want to attract a top 3 percenter, ask yourself - am I a top 3 percenter? What is my value as a man?

While on this forum we like to advocate maintaining the prize mentality, and working behavioral psychology to our favor, I think the concept of becoming a man of value is well under-discussed here.

Don't mistake this post as acquiescence to feminized ideals. It's more a reality check. There are so many threads here, especially on the Mature board, that lament a lack of outstanding women, when the reality is that there are just as few men who are highly valuable as there are women.

We can tilt the game in our favor by defending ourselves against feminized social conditioning and scarcity mentality until we're blue in the balls, but we can't escape the fact that our value as both short-term and long-term partners for women is a large component of our capacity to attract and keep the interest of a high-value woman.

I'm not suggesting one lowers their standards, or that there isn't merit in the idea that more traditionally feminine women exist outside of Westernized countries. But when you boil away all the frustrations of both sexes in trying to maximize their potential, mate selection is a game of economics as much as anything else that involves finite resources. Consider if men and women typically lived to be 120, still went through puberty in the their teens, and stayed youthful and fertile until age 95 or so. How would that change the game? The significant role of our finite time is what makes mate selection largely a game of economics.

Without getting too carried away into the mechanics and minutia of it all, a good question to ask yourself is how compelling is your reality, and more importantly, how aware are you of your realistic market value?

Food for thought…

(in the meantime, while you're considering the value concept, go out and bang some more hot party skanks. That's what they're there for )