So my son is getting married...

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Latinoman

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Another thing...some of the biggest things that cause divorce among young couple:

1- Cheating
2- Economical issues
3- In Laws

I suspect the In Laws can play a potential factor in here. When I married VERY young...my success was because we kept away from any influence from the in-laws. Among other things.

Sure, I ended up leaving almost after 15 years. But not because of the things mentioned above.
 

Latinoman

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Wyldfire said:
My son really isn't ready for this, but no one really is...however, he's determined to try his best and be responsible...and no matter what happens I am very proud of him for behaving like a MAN and not a boy.

And thanks to those who offered congratulations. I'm concerned about the situation, yes...but I feel I've done a good job raising my children and I think he'll be a wonderful father.
And my remarks and advice came down because of the above.

All he can do is try. But sometimes marrying (unless he is in the Military or a job that is important that she get some benefits, etc) might not be the solution. Sometimes living together and see how things go might be the real solution.

Because when a person live together...and THEN decide to marry. We know that they are doing it NOT because of sociatal pressure, but because they truly want to do it.

No one should question your motherhood skills. And no one should have any doubt about his desire to do the right thing.

But NOT wanting to marry does NOT make him less of a man. As you don't have to be "married" to be a "man". Running from his responsability as a FATHER does make him less of a man. And he is not doing that.
 

Wyldfire

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doctoroxygen said:
Why the hell did he buy her a diamond? That money could've been better used in any number of things, from a car to a down payment on a house to starting a college fund for the baby. Buying diamonds at this stage is irresponsible. It's romantic (I guess; I hate diamonds with a passion [read about the engagement ring mythology for an idea why]), but foolish.

Congratulations and good luck are still in order though!
It wasn't an outrageously expensive one...it was actually very cheap. His girlfriend told him that it's the thought that counts and she'd wear a garbage bag tie if he gave it to her. I thought that was really cute.
 

wayword

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Wyldfire said:
They are currently living at his girlfriend's house while she finishes school. He's going to get an additional job (right now he does odd maintenance jobs for the town on an as needed basis). He went to job corps and got training in landscaping, basic maintenance and he has experience roofing and doing concrete. He's also been shoveling out driveways when there is snow for the town's housing complexes. He saved up and already bought her a diamond. Before he got involved with her he was actually pretty lazy and unmotivated. This is the most focused and motivated I have ever seen him...and if it took a baby on the way and getting married to inspire such positive changes in him then perhaps this will be good for him.
Wake up people, what "health care benefits?" He doesn't even have a full time job!

1) This scrub occasionally does yardwork. I'm guessing he makes ~$100/week.

2) He can't afford rent and so must burden his in-laws to shack him up (and probably feed him too) - like another child.

3) With one on the waayyyy!!! Yippee! He can't even provide for himself...so how will he provide for a kid??? Anyone?

4) No higher education and just minimal semi-contracting skills. He wasn't going anywhere before the baby...you think he's going to go anywhere now with a kid to feed?

5) He was brainless enough to knock up a 17-yo...and then spend what little he saved up for...on a diamond ring? Low IQ, anyone? The root of much of life's problems... If he's made such poor life decisions up to now...what makes you think he won't keep making those here on out?

So basically...expect the grandparents (and possibly taxpayers) here to have to cuckold this baby. Life is not a magic trick. If you are not planning things out, preparing and executing them with hard, focused work - they are not going to just "magically" happen on their own.

Kids today seem to think having a baby is like getting a tattoo or getting your lip pierced...
 

Wyldfire

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Latinoman said:
By the way...I can tell that you are a great mom.
Thanks...I do try my best. My son actually has an advantage in his relationships...he's genuinely totally unbothered by most of the things that drive guys nuts with jealousy and insecurity. He's never been heartbroken over a girl in his life. His first girlfriend had Borderline Personality Disorder and he was entirely unphased by her moodswings and wacky behavior. He was just like "whatever" and he'd just go along with whatever he was doing. He is probably the most laid back person I've ever seen. He gets along with everyone and everyone likes him. He's also very patient and when he does get mad (which I've only seen a couple of times his entire life) he gets over it very quickly and he is fine afterwards. He's attentive enough and very kind, but not pushy or clingy and he's always been very popular with the girls. They've been chasing him since he was in the 4th or 5th grade. He won't let peoplel walk all over him, mind you...but he's virtually always very calm and unaffected by things. He's got the right demeanor for marriage and parenthood and based on his personality...even if the marriage doesn't last in the long run I think he will be a great father and have no problems getting along with his baby's Mom even if they were to split. She has a similar demeanor, too...and she encourages him. He certainly could do much, much worse.
 

Wyldfire

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Francisco d'Anconia said:
Another example of allowing society to dictate the rules of marriage. The problem with marriage is that people spend more time preparing for the wedding than on the marriage itself. The get into debt by following "the rules" without being concerned that finances is usually the root to the majority of marital problems. I still say that counselling up front is going to do much more good compared to getting counseling if there are other problems.
They aren't having a big wedding at all...and they are going to have a civil service first and have a wedding later, when they are better able to afford it. They want to get what they need for the baby first.
 

djbr

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A-Unit said:
Sosuave, once again showing their immaturiy and youth. Something that is enjoyed, as much as it is hated.

Maine, for those NOT from the Northeast, is quite, rural. Kids that attend college, generally go locally, and then return to their hometowns. UMO, 1 of the colleges I attended for a brief stint, has mostly Vermont, Canadian, and Maine attendees. Many of these attendees return home after completing their degree. As someone from MASS, during the time attended, my "style" was considered ahead of the curve, yet I was only inline with current trends relative to my state.

My own cousin was married at 18/19, to her husband 21 at the time. They have 5 acres and are now expecting a child 1 year into marriage. Marriages DO last longer up there, and divorce is LOWER because...

-they don't have the distractions we do.
-per capita income is lower, so quality of life is more important than quantity of possessions.
-people are friendlier and more community-oriented.
-more self-employed people, with more time control.
-less professional education.
-less of a "nightlife."

When you go to back, you're away from the "buzz" that is EVERYWHERE else. I've gone up there since I was 8, and it's a place away from everything else. Their motto is...something like...THE WAY LIFE IS SUPPOSED TO BE. And I'd say so. I've had many long conversations with residents. Maine residents...

-are more inclined to stop by after work and have a few beers.
-attend every function possible.
-develop strong relationships because it's more about WHO you are, than WHAT YOU DO.
-friends live next to friends
-people have more land generally
-houses are more affordable, even with blue collar work
-they're closer to bodies of water, beaches and the mountains.

There are fewer mobile homes and trailer parks up there, than you'd expect, and probably LESS than the midwest, florida, or places like TENN, etc. You may find a smaller home, but it has more land, i.e, more room for future expansion.

I personally love Maine. And despite ALL the emphasis on being better people, more mature, self-improved, dj's, most guys hit this post with a negative wave of thunder. Why? That speaks alot about you as a person and your spirit.

High divorce rates for an 18y.o are irrelevant. What's he got to lose at this point? And, if he accumulates anything from 18 onward, wouldn't the wife have a right, since she probably did SOMETHING, such as not working, raising the child, or caring for the home? IF she does none of those things, then he didn't have the conversation on WHO is going to DO WHAT around here, and needs to learn DIVISION of LABOR.

You guys jump at marriage and divorce like it's AUTOMATIC. And like you're bitter. Don't get married if you don't believe in it. Funny, many guys here or not still here, have parents, WHO, if not married, would never have had you so you could come here and complain about marriage all over again. And even if their split, were they not here, you'd not be saying "The divorce rate is..."

Aren't those meaningless stats for young and middle aged guys? Go learn something about finance, cars, health, football, etc. Pssh, I'd rather talk with a WoW geek about stats and the game, than hear more crap about Divorce rates and negativity. You're hopefully NOT those people. Spouting divorce rates only means you feel like you're SOME statistic that has NO control or SAY over his own life and you feel like you'll follow that path. If you didn't feel like a stat, mentioning it so reflexively wouldn't be habitual as it has become for the 18 year olds and even 25 year olds here.

Must be great dinner conversation and pick lines. I guess I missed the boat.

Congrats on the marriage. Personally, I'm all for people who passionately FOLLOW their wants and their heart, without consideration for other people's advice. And no one can confirm or deny he doesn't want this, you're not him, so reserve your stats for college classes and pickup lines.


A-Unit
:up: :up: :up:

That changed my perspective on marriage a lot, even though I already said if I were in his shoes I would at least cohabitate.

Great post A-Unit!
 

Wyldfire

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Des...he asked her to marry him prior to her getting pregnant. They were going to wait until they were older, but in light of the pregnancy decided to go ahead and do it now.
 

Wyldfire

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WesCottII said:
Good luck to him, but I assume it was unplanned? Did he not know about contraception?
I mentioned earlier in the thread that they were using birth control. My 6 year old was conceived while using birth control as well. It's not always effective.
 

Wyldfire

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A-Unit...I knew you would "get" what I meant about the higher success rate for marriage here. Women are very different here as well...far more family oriented and much more devoted to that family and making a life together.
 

sparky0000

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even odds that "wyldfire" is really one of you boys. call me oliver stone if you must....BUT....i find his...uh...her posts to be a bit suspicious.
 

Wyldfire

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Latinoman said:
He might need to marry her if he wants to provide Health Care benefits for her (via his job - assuming he is working). But not need to marry her if he only wants to provide Health Care benefits for the child. Anyway, there a lot of acceptable reasons for why to married at age 18 with a 17 year old.

However, he is marrying her because he got her pregnant. His marriage has nothing to do with loving her (although he might) and more to do with "doing the right thing". THAT is the issue. That is not an acceptable reason, IMO.

He is marrying her because of what society expects him to do.

No one should marry because of "doing the right thing". It creates resentment. Not now...maybe later.

I feel Desdinova provided solid advice.

On a side note...I don't understand the logic about spending lot of $$$ on a diamond ring. Especially under his current circunstances (an 18 year old kid).

Can this work? Sure. What's the likelihood? We need to look at statistics in places that were like Maine 5-10 years ago. As Maine might not be the same 5-10 years into the future. And that is thanks to the Internet, Text Messages, Technology, etc.
I should have added in the first post that he DID ask her to marry him on Valentines day...and he gave her the ring then as well. He originally wanted to wait several years before getting married, but he DID want to marry her and her him. They found out she was pregnant Tuesday and told me yesterday. Last night they called to tell me they had discussed it and decided to go ahead and get married now so she doesn't get shunned by her church for being an unwed mother. They were planning to get married prior to the pregnancy...just not right away.
 

Wyldfire

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Latinoman said:
Another thing...some of the biggest things that cause divorce among young couple:

1- Cheating
2- Economical issues
3- In Laws

I suspect the In Laws can play a potential factor in here. When I married VERY young...my success was because we kept away from any influence from the in-laws. Among other things.

Sure, I ended up leaving almost after 15 years. But not because of the things mentioned above.
I can't stand when parents interfere in their childrens' marriages or relationships...and I'm very supportive. I haven't met her parents yet, but my son says they like him a lot and they invited him to move in with them so her mom can help with the baby so her daughter can finish school and they can both work and save money. I will also help as much as I can as will my 20 year old daughter. If it turns out that her parents interfere they can always move in here.
 

Wyldfire

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wayword...how on earth you've managed to not be banned is beyond me. You've been repeatedly making personal attacks on me and now my son without me reacting in the same fashion or giving you just cause to attack. From here on out every rude and out of line post you make I am going to report and request that you be banned for your behavior. I hope that anyone else who is sick of reading your nonsense will do the same.
 

Desdinova

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Wyldfire said:
From here on out every rude and out of line post you make I am going to report and request that you be banned for your behavior.
Oh please don't :rolleyes:

Wyldfire said:
You've been repeatedly making personal attacks on me and now my son
While I agree that people shouldn't flame other members of this board, your son isn't a member here. You brought up a personal situation which involves someone who isn't a member, and in doing so, you opened the situation for speculation and criticism. By the same token, we should be banning anyone who talks about Britney Spears, Anna Nicole Smith, Mystery, David Deangelo, etc etc.
 

Wyldfire

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Desdinova said:
Oh please don't :rolleyes:



While I agree that people shouldn't flame other members of this board, your son isn't a member here. You brought up a personal situation which involves someone who isn't a member, and in doing so, you opened the situation for speculation and criticism. By the same token, we should be banning anyone who talks about Britney Spears, Anna Nicole Smith, Mystery, David Deangelo, etc etc.
Des...you know I've got a lot of respect for you...and we go back a very long time...but as a moderator it is you job to enforce the rules. Everytime you allow someone like wayword to get away with this kind of behavior it only invites more of the same from others...especially where I am concerned...and you are well aware of that. I've been playing VERY nice since I've been back and did nothing to invite his behavior. If you won't deal with him then I will end up letting him have it, and ultimately that will only make more work for you. And frankly...I really don't get any enjoyment of destroying pimply arsed little puss bags like him because it's too damn easy. Please deal with him so it doesn't have to get very ugly and very aggravating for the moderators.
 

mpimpin

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Congrats! I hope things work out for your son and his new family. Hopefully with enough determination they can.

Wayword does have some sound advice "Life is not a magic trick. If you are not planning things out, preparing and executing them with hard, focused work - they are not going to just "magically" happen on their own."

I think i've found a new favorite qoute
 

Wyldfire

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Mctwist4 said:
I agree with wayword. You don't seem to be taking it seriously enough. Your teenage son has a pregnant fiancee and your worried about banning wayword...?
You mean my ADULT son who does not live at home. He is 18 years old and what he does is his choice. I would be far more upset if he got her pregnant and then ran away like a coward, leaving his child fatherless. Granted, it's not the ideal situation, but HE wants the baby. HE was offered an out by his girlfriend's mother and it was HIM that declined that offer.

I respect my son's right to make his own choices. Apparently you are unaware of the fact that you cannot control anyone other than yourself. If you want to waste your time and energy trying to impose your will onto others, that's your thing I suppose...but it's a waste of time, doesn't change anything and only shows a tendency for feeling compelled to control others. That's just not my style.
 

A-Unit

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Re;

This should be an "awakening" to all men dipping their sticks in the "magical well of life"...rather than wait to be a man and GROW up and do the right thing. DO THE RIGHT THING before you get to STICKING your prick in their. A woman who spreads her legs GENERALLY expects you to take care of that. Men can impregnate multiple women a day if he so chose to, but a woman could only conceive roughly once a year, putting the implications as much on you as it does her.

"Accidents" and "Not wanting" something can only be said to be TRUE if you're raped. Just because you don't WANT marriage, a child, having to pay child custody, etc, doesn't mean you should be TAGGED with it if you bang a girl. I feel no remorse for guys who say "I don't want a kid," yet engage in sex, REGARDLESS if the woman is lying or not. DON'T HAVE SEX.

The primary role of sex is procreation. The secondary role is pleasure, IF you find the right partner and circumstances. I won't even budge on that. For a guy to be so dumb as to bang a girl, and then REGRET having done it, or NOT want a child is stupid and beyond me.

NOW, i love sex. Whenever I've done sex, I've KNOWN without a doubt that if things went awry, I could handle it. Sure, you're not laying 50-100 women, but you're also not having as many illegitimate children in 1 year like Willis McGahee who had 3 in one year, by 3 different women. Is that what you want success with women for? Does it balance out in the end? Banging...what countless scores of women, then fathering 2+ children with different women, or even 1 child with a woman you can't tolerate except when you're in view of the back of her head? Go ahead, it's personal preference to do so, and it's your life...but it's beyond me to pin the blame on the woman.

1. Contraceptive methods aren't 100%, and can be negated by biochemistry, disease, bacteria, chance, luck, God, or chemicals. As well as aggressive sex.
2. Biologically speaking, an urge exists for a woman to get pregnant. It's probably her number 1 motivator for sex, unconsciously of course. "Being a mother" under ideal circumstances is a goal for many women. Ahem, Bridget Moynahan and Tom Brady? Need I say more.
3. Sex requires YOUR prick to enter her, not the other way. You're consciously choosing to do so, and therein lies the rub, EVEN if she says she also doesn't want kids now.

I think it comes down to a sense of HAVE cake and eat it, too. Yes, there will be ISOLATED cases of guys banging girls who lied, were deceptive, etc. My advice? Wait longer. You don't know someone until you've known them for a few years. Yes, this flies in the face EVERYTHING here, when the idea is scoring, BUT, how many people have friends who they thought were awesome and they weren't, which only took time to flesh out? How many have dated a woman BEYOND two years?

A few months isn't a long enough track record to establish whether the person is honest or a liar, whether they're good or bad, etc. If you want to bang, bang, but be willing to pay the price for your foolishness. If you TRULY didn't want kids or the responsibility, you wouldn't fvk. End of story.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Haha, I like how wayward judges an 18 year based on such a short track record of life. Truly comical.

1. 18 year olds often need some TRIGGERING event to spring them in to maturity. It used to be the military, for those that go. Higher education only pushes this off. And going for professional training or blue collar work ensures that he doesn't dump his life into the cash sink that is COLLEGE. My own cousin did the military, then some college, now started his own cement and form building company in Maine with a friend. They have more work than they know what to do with. Where there's a will, there's a way.

2. It's only RECENT society and their huge demand on commericalism that has led to this purported trend of leeching. MANY families used to shack together while tending for the children AND grandparents. That trend shifted when 2 family incomes cropped up, and parents decided to put their kids with the TV set, instead of actually parenting them. I've dated Asian women who have MASSIVE houses where a unique division of labor supports the whole infrastructure and kids live there, married until 30's+. It might be weird compared to true conventions in America, where EVERYONE should be on their own, however, it works for them, saves money for those to buy a home, and helps the older parents not rely on the government and not spend massive assets on single homes not needed or on retirement communities that are overpriced.

I'm done responding to his points. It's lowering my IQ ("Haha, as if it could ever get any lower!"). Your posts are filled with misogyny, written through the lens of a burned man who is referencing feminism as the source without any supporting information on feminism or how it applies, and is in the general dispirit of everything this site is about. Not only are they immature, in that you strike at a person, rather than the argument at hand, rather than being part of the SOLUTION, you've become part of the problem.

To what end does it serve you to attack someone on annonymous message boards about picking up chicks and come across immature and like a degenerate loser? Change your tone, and I'll think differently of you.

Just as an FYI though, why would you post such things on msgs boards Wyldfire, where you can perhaps anticipate a flame war from such posters unless you're attempting to ferret out information pertaining to his situation OR enlighten young posters?

A-Unit
 
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